I have an 81' Prindle 16 with a mast and standing rigging, but no mainsail. I also have a prindle 18 rig and sails.
Could I put the prindle 18 mast on the 16 with the 18 sails? What effect would it have besides more power and weight aloft?
What is the mast height difference? Could I cut off the top of the prindle 18 sail, sew in another diagonal batten and reinforcing, and have a flattop mainsail for the 16?
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Small sailboat designer, builder, and Cat Sailor. 8' Keelboat, Hobie Fox,Prindle 16.
Rear Commodore, Utah Lake Yacht Club - Mostly sail Hobie Fox (Formula-20)
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Prindle 16 with prindle 18 rig?
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Posted: Oct 14, 2014 - 10:26 AM
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Posted: Oct 14, 2014 - 11:45 AM
a. weather or lee helm - probably adjustable with mast rake and rudder rake
b. being completely overpowered for the boat making it much more sustainable to capsize or part failure
c. harder to right the capsized boat
d. a kick ass light wind prindle
yes -
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Posted: Oct 14, 2014 - 12:21 PM
Square topping the 18 main is the best solution. I've done it and won't sell the sail. This is what Coastrat is talking about when he says he has a lot more power with his new sail. Pete -
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Posted: Oct 16, 2014 - 08:25 AM
I see, How does the control of the sail differ from the control of a modern flat-top sail?
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Small sailboat designer, builder, and Cat Sailor. 8' Keelboat, Hobie Fox,Prindle 16.
Rear Commodore, Utah Lake Yacht Club - Mostly sail Hobie Fox (Formula-20)
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Posted: Oct 16, 2014 - 11:27 AM
Don't do it--putting a larger rig on a boat NEVER, EVER, EVER works out!
Sell the 18 rig and buy a good used Prindle 16 set of sails. I bet Pete has a good one for sale.
Seriously, I don't mean to sound rude or snobby, but I hear this all the time. Someone puts a larger rig on their boat then they can't keep it upright and it is overpowered. They usually end up crashing and breaking things. Square topping a sail may work, some people are lucky with it, but really, the best thing is to go with the sail plan that was designed for the boat. -
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Posted: Oct 16, 2014 - 03:20 PM
The P-16 rig has 190 sq. ft. Sq. topping the main adds only 7 % or about 14 sq. ft. for a total of 204. That's still way under 218 for a Hobie 16. Sailing it in white cap conditions with a 90 lb crew, we were almost equal on the course to a P-18 & a H-18. Sail was very manageable, just had more speed. Sure I have a couple nice P-16 sails to sell rcnesneg, just saying sq topping an 18 main if you own it is cheaper ($50) and better. Pete -
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Posted: Oct 16, 2014 - 03:28 PM
Wow. I don't have anybody that light available to crew. -
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Posted: Oct 17, 2014 - 05:18 PM
when square topping a P18 sail for a P16 can the P16 battens be used?
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Pete Knapp
Schodack landing,NY
Goodall Viper,AHPC Viper,Nacra I20
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Posted: Oct 17, 2014 - 06:49 PM
Good news! I found the full matching set of missing prindle 16 sails. Problem solved!
Back to the question at hand, not that it is very important now, I doubt the prindle 16 battens could be used, because there would be more longer battens on a prindle 18 sail.
Seems like you could just use the battens in the prindle 18 sail, and the top one or two would get cut off anyway so don't worry about them.
Funny you guys' names are Pete too.
-Peter (rcnesneg)
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Small sailboat designer, builder, and Cat Sailor. 8' Keelboat, Hobie Fox,Prindle 16.
Rear Commodore, Utah Lake Yacht Club - Mostly sail Hobie Fox (Formula-20)
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Posted: Oct 18, 2014 - 07:17 AM
My thought is that since the 18 square top fits the 16 rig, the foot of the sail must be the same so the battens should work. I am sure Pete will educate us since he has done this.
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Pete Knapp
Schodack landing,NY
Goodall Viper,AHPC Viper,Nacra I20
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Posted: Oct 18, 2014 - 07:59 AM
wel .....
we have a couple mystere 5.5's here that use the 6.0 mast and sail and they sail fine (using either a mystere mast, or a torbnado mast)
but we are talking about boats that are identical except the 6.0 mast is 1' taller and the bows are 1.5' longer
but in general i agree, it rarely works out well -
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Posted: Oct 19, 2014 - 12:05 PM
My new ad under sails for P-16 mainsail shows the difference between pin top and sq top P-16 mains (using P-18 main to sq top). In my opinion this makes the P-16 a very lively boat. Let's not forget that many of these boat designs were made in the early '70's and a great deal of refinement has taken place in the last 40 years. Nice to take advantage of them. Pete -
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Posted: Oct 21, 2014 - 03:10 PM
That's pretty cool Pete! How well does the upper rear corner hold up? I don't see much of an angle on the diagonal batten in there, seems like a lot more stress on the fabric from the minimal angle of the existing top batten.
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Small sailboat designer, builder, and Cat Sailor. 8' Keelboat, Hobie Fox,Prindle 16.
Rear Commodore, Utah Lake Yacht Club - Mostly sail Hobie Fox (Formula-20)
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Posted: Oct 21, 2014 - 05:29 PM
If I am reading this right you want to put a Prindle 18 rig on a Prindle 16.....?
I say go for it.... I blieve this was done years ago from the local Prindle/NACRA dealer in Long Beach... I think the only thing you should have to customize are the shrouds, your forestay should match up, and some trial an error on the mast rake...
Edited by JohnES on Oct 21, 2014 - 05:34 PM.
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John Schwartz
Ventura, CA
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Posted: Oct 22, 2014 - 09:08 AM
No John, we're only talking about putting a P-18 main, sq topped, on a P-16 mast, no rig changes. And rcnesneg, the top batten (hard to see cause end is flush with leach) carries extra material. What I like is the extra power for low cost (if you have an extra P-18 main lying around). Pete -
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Posted: Oct 22, 2014 - 08:41 PM
If I'm understanding the wording above correctly, "rig" is mast and stays, if this is correct, no harm in trying it out, the P18 rig, (mast, 2 side stays and 1 forestay) should fit the P16 no problem as long as he has P18 sails, main & jib. All stays will need some adjusting, especially the forestay, which fortunately on the Prindles is adjustable. I'm with John, go ahead and try it out, I've always wanted to do that myself.....
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Posted: Oct 22, 2014 - 09:48 PM
Yes, the shrouds will work, but forestay will have to be shortened at top end because it will be too long (and 5/32 hard to work with). It will work fine in light air, but will tend to pitchpole as wind picks up. The main problem as marekli is finding out on another thread is that the mast with spreaders is a bear to throw up alone so you've lost the single handing advantage. Furthermore, sq topping the 18 sail makes the old boat look more modern as ALL new cats today. Pete -
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Posted: Oct 23, 2014 - 07:54 AM
Maybe in our advanced age the mast may be a little bit of a bear, but I use to see people whip these up single handed all the time down at Clairmont ramp back in the day.
Never seen so many creative uses of the mainsheet system
Edited by JohnES on Oct 23, 2014 - 07:55 AM.
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John Schwartz
Ventura, CA
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Posted: Oct 23, 2014 - 07:56 AM
That is what I thought... Guess my vocabulary is wrong....
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John Schwartz
Ventura, CA
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Posted: Oct 26, 2014 - 10:32 AM
Somewhat related...a sailing friend on our local lake puts his p16 rig on his p19 (not just the sails...he acutally puts the entire mast/standing rig on). It blows like hell here pretty often and the smaller rig on the long hulls do great in the heavy air. He can sail circles around us while we in survival mode...but as soon the wind lightens up...we give him some pay back.
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Geno Hacker
Lake Isabella, California
Supercat 20, 1/2 of a B-Lion, H18, P16, H14
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