hello,
i am hello...i do enjoy designing boats and have several plans i have designed...i even like to build one every now and then and am in the process of building a dingy in my living room...

but i am designing a beach cat, that is more of a social type of cat like the hobie getaway, only instead of sixteen feet, the one i am designing is 19 feet...(it is my dream beach cat)

i was wondering, if there is anything in particular any of you people would like on a dream beach cat.

for example, even though it is a social, cruising type of boat, i think dagger boards would be nice on it...

Anything in particular he asked:: yeah~~~BABES & BEER !!

--
~ Vietnam Vet 69-71~ 17 Hobie w/big jib, ~18 Hobie mag,~DN Ice sailor,
and other toys.......
~~ I live in NY state on the north shore of Oneida lake in
Bernhards Bay. ~~~~~~
--

600+ square feet of sail (including a huge asymmetrical chute), twin trapeze, 14 foot beam and a rigged boat weight of under 300 lbs.

Sounds like a perfect combination for a good social kind of boat.

for a social boat with huge hull volumes a forward tramp and getaway style racks seem a good idea, as does a boomless main

daggers good for pointing but cenetrboards easier to use

what about copying the nifty nacra 580 centerboards

http://www.nacra.us/580/580dex.htm

look up some pictures of the "shark catamaran" frame is wood, folds in the middle. Lots of storage capacity. The only downside is that its a little heavier, and i would assume needs more upkeep and attention. But its a beautiful boat.

oh yea.. wave piercing hulls so you dont have to worry so much about pitchpoling.



edited by: thtsjon4u, May 19, 2009 - 06:18 PM

rpiper138

600+ square feet of sail (including a huge asymmetrical chute), twin trapeze, 14 foot beam and a rigged boat weight of under 300 lbs.

Sounds like a perfect combination for a good social kind of boat.

haha.. yea social.

storage! speakers! wings! front tramp, lights above and below the waterline and up the mast.

Jacuzzi, bar/tap, mirrored ceilings... vibrating bed... wait i think i have gone to far



edited by: andrewscott, May 20, 2009 - 09:54 AM

I will agree with storage, front tramp, wings, boomless. Probably kick-up centerboards so you can't forget to pull them before beaching. Maybe large sail plan that is easily reduced, furling main?.



--
Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
--

smfinley

Maybe large sail plan that is easily reduced, furling main?.

A furling main? unless you come up with some new design...that would mean a non rotating mast.. this would greatly reduce the efficiency of the sail.... perhaps a reefing main...

Didn't the HC21SC have some kind of reefing system that rolled the main around the boom? Not saying the HC21SC had a good sailplan for the boat, but for a cruising cat seemed like a good concept. Maybe I said furling instead of reefing, but all the reefing I have used involved putting ropes through grommets in the main and lashing it to the boom. As a dream cruiser cat a way to roll it up to depower seems nice.

--
Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
--

i know you can reef a main on some cats (olderH16, supercat19) by wrapping it around the boom.. but not sure about the hc21 system.

When you said furl the main... i thought of the hobie bravo that has a furling main/mast.

Most reefing systems do include gromets in the main... they usually have a fork/bead halyard with 2 beads on it so you can chose the right height of the sail.

If you have a ring/hook system... you usually need a pig tail for the ring/sailhead and turn the boat on its side (or come up with some smart system) to get the ring off the hook



edited by: andrewscott, May 20, 2009 - 12:43 PM

Front tramp....hulls that have practical access for storage...anchoring capability....lazy jack system...

What are you thinking about for a material for the hulls?

Dagger boards get in the way of deck movement. Their sockets eventually start leaking due to bottom strikes. They are something else to break.

Talk with Hans Geisler, he sold six or eight different cat makes... there was something about each one he did not like... and he made the G-Cat to do away with all of them. Deep enough hulls that do not require daggers. Front tramp that makes a great tent area. The only thing I think it needs is coolers built into the pontoons like Hobie designed.

while in the gulf last weekend, we met up with a friend who sails a homemade cat. he has daggarboards that are slid through outboard slots. it seemed like a good way to keep them out of the way..

His cat is looks much more like an old powercat that he put a hobie mast on.

It is a little low tech.. but he uses the heck out of the boat and it sails pretty well....



edited by: andrewscott, May 20, 2009 - 01:31 PM

Deepsees

he made the G-Cat to do away with all of them. Deep enough hulls that do not require daggers.

Hans told me (2 weekends ago) he is probably going to build a new G-cat to compete in some world events this year... sounds real interesting.... i told him last week i want one

I will allow him to make any official news release.. but sounds awesome

Hans is always churning something up. I asked him where he got his training on hull designs, he told me it came from observing fish.

I have been toying around with the costs involved in building a stainless steel cat. In pure expense, an 18 foot cat should cost a little over a grand per pontoon to fabricate, not counting anything else that is common to glass cats. The weight of the .024 gauge steel would be about the same as glass and much tougher. Once polished to a chrome like shine, it would be a real eye catcher and stay that way.

Deepsees

Hans is always churning something up. I asked him where he got his training on hull designs, he told me it came from observing fish.

I have been toying around with the costs involved in building a stainless steel cat. In pure expense, an 18 foot cat should cost a little over a grand per pontoon to fabricate, not counting anything else that is common to glass cats. The weight of the .024 gauge steel would be about the same as glass and much tougher. Once polished to a chrome like shine, it would be a real eye catcher and stay that way.

Hans is a trip. He is very nice and fun. It is very inspirational to sail with a 65 year old who isn't afraid of 25-30 knot wind... He has gone out on many occasions when no other cats will...

As per the SS cat... that could be real neat. You would need covers for trailering that as you would blind people driving it to the beach.... but that could be a competitive edge in a race (i am teasing, i know your not a racer)...

Deepsees,
Are you in the steel fabrication business? 24 gauge stainless is not that stiff without a lot of bracing. I believe 24 gauge is about 1lb per square foot. So an 18' hull would weigh at least 75 (18'x2'highx2 sides, plus deck/transem etc) pounds without any bracing. I would guess a fiberglass hull is less then 100lbs.

I think it would look great, but not sure about the weight of those hulls.

--
Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
--

Structural stiffness enough for a cat can be obtained just like the flimsy hobie pontoons, by shaping. Other than that, four internal braces will do. Adding the top of the pontoon with a convex shape will add structural rigidity just like the hobies do.

The weight factor is not a concern. Remember, I am not into racing. The .024 is pretty stiff, steel drums are 18 gauge... especially in compression of a deep vee bearing on a shaped deck. There is an issue with distortion of the sheet metal at the bracings if they are welded very much at all. It causes that ribbed look, But isolated tack welds is all that would be required for a stainless application... cause nothing corrodes. Providing there is nothing electrical going on. Then heat affected zones tend to dissolve quicker.

Electrical isolation of the cross members would have to be accomplished in some manner that does not require servicing... like teflon sheet. That would ensure the entire boat not become a battery.

Like I said, something of beauty to toy around with while I day dream. SS is the only metal to use on a cat. The boat is not big enough to run into lots of money making it. Just getting access to brake machines and tig welders.

I used to be in the steel fabrication business.

Yes chicks and beer are always a nice addition...

i did plan on sometype of stereo system, and even have a locker designed to keep it dry in a turtle or pitchpole....

the material is up in the air...i am thinking of a plug faired delicately, sprayed with duratek, from which to make a mold and pull two hulls from it, while making the top(deck of the hulls) built separately... all built with carbon fiber(if i can foot the bill) or fiber glass if necessary... with a custom canvas tent that can be easily set up like a tent to full cover the cat for camping on the beach or at anchor....

I did consider some type of carbon mast, i mean since we are dreaming...

for the main, an in the boom system might be an option...but without electric rollers, it would have to be manuel, perhaps by crank...but would still allow mast rotation.

manuel would be a better option, and the in the boom system would make reefing easier as well....but the boom fatter...


i considered center boards but let me ask, don't you think they take up much more volume space than dagger boards?...should that even be a concern?

plus, i think on a social cat of such a length, would you think like 3 and a half foot of freeboard would be good(to keep the trampoline out of the water)?






edited by: hello, May 24, 2009 - 02:31 PM

The H21SC can be reefed it has a crank that you insert in the front of the mast about 4-5 feet from the base. The boom has something similar to a topping lift, that is on the end of the boom so it can rotate, after you reef the mainsail the handle on the crank inserts into another hole in the mast locking it in place. The jib is also roller furling as well as the genny. You can dump alot of sail on the boat.