Ahoy! Let me begin by thanking you all for sharing your knowledge. I have been lurking here for quite some time and have been able to learn a great deal.
Recently I rescued a 1981 Prindle 18 from an airport hanger where it had been trapped for the last 15 years. The boat was in great condition but the previous owner had never even stepped the mast so was useless to assist me with the rigging. I have been able to rig and use the boat with the main only based on the owners manual but I can not figure out the jib rigging. There appear to be several other active posting Prindle 18 owners in the ranks here and I am hoping one of you will take pity on me and take some pictures of you jib rigging next time you set up or refer me to someplace that will help me out.

Thanks
Rider_55

Posting your location always helps, there may be sailors in your area willing to help.

and more spacific questions can be answered....

I am located in central Arkansas.

Basically I need pictures of the rigging for the jib sail from the clew back I can't sort out the blocks or lines in this area. I can raise the jib but am clueless on the running rigging configuration.

Thanks

The manuals are available for free to download on the Internet. Or you can simple contact Performance Catamarans out in Cali - they'll send you one. Nice people. I believe the 18 has the same setup as my 18-2. The 18-2/19 manual can be downloaded from THIS site (http://www.thebeachcats.com/index.php?module=pictures&g2_itemId=35451).

If you've steeped the mast, than you've obviously had the forestay attached. The forestay is a two-piece unit. A double short piece for the top with which one side connects to the mast tang, the other end connectes to the bigger, lower piece by a 1-inch shackle and the loose end is for the jib halyard to go through. There's a steel ring which hangs free and the connecting point. This is for the jib s-hook to hook on to. The ring MUST face inward (down).

Your jib halyard is also a 2-piece design with two brummel hooks. It runs through the ring and through the free end of the top piece of the forestay. Not this is very VERY important:

1. BOTH up and down halyards must run through the ring.
2. The s-hook must hook onto the shackle on the jib so that the open end faces down to catch the ring.
3. MOST IMPORTANT OF ALL: Test the jib halyard BEFORE you step the mast!!! The brummel hooks will NOT go through the forestay loop. If you have it on the wrong side, you will not be able to pull on the halyard to raise the jib. The idea is when you hook the halyard s-hook to the small shackle on the jib and pull it up, when it's raised, all the left over halyard line doesn't need to be coiled. You simply unclip the brummel hooks and store the halyard. So before stepping the mast, make sure that you can pull the halyard and the s-hook travels up. Discovering this after the mast has been stepped is a royal pain in the ass!

Mast stepped, shrouds connected, forestay clipped. Attach the halyard s-hook to the shackle on the jib and if there's a zipper pouch , run BOTH halyard ends through the zipper. Just hold on to the zipper with one hand as your hoist the jib up on the halyard with the other. The zipper will zip up because you're just holding it. Pull the jib all the way up and through the ring, then let it settle back down and it will hook onto the ring. Unclip the brummel hooks and stow the excess halyard. There might be a small jib downhaul string on the sail with a cam cleat on the jib. Run the string through the forestay shackle, back up through the cleat and pull tight to take out any wrinkles or slop in your jib.

Two other notes:

Ignore the manual when it says to tie a small line to your jib clew and then to the blocks. Forget it. Just shackle your jib blocks right to the jib clew itself.

Don't forget to tie a piece of bungie as a jib jam preventor. Just tie a bungie to the front crossbar, run it up and around the mast and tie off on the other side. You're making a triangle. This prevents the jib blocks from getting caught under the mast foot when you tack. It's a tiny little thing, but it really helps. It sucks to be right in the middle of a tack and wonder why you can't get the jib to come across, only to realize that the blocks are caught up in the bottom of the mast.

Hope this helps!

I'll try an work up an illustration but the gist is this. You have 2 short cables that come out of your hulls at the ports about midway. you want to take a small line 1/8th inch is what I have and tie them together straight across the tramp.

So you connect to one run the line across the tramp and in the center of the tramp you have a line of grommets. These are some sort of adjustment for the Jib that I am to inexperienced to really use yet so for now pick whichever set is closest to straight across. Run the line down the first one then back up the one directly across from it. Then tie to the other cable on the other side pulling them taught.

Now you should have 2 sets of ratcheting blocks that have a cleats on one end these connect to the ends of the 2 cables. They connect with a small shackle. Now you can shackle right to clew as listed above. I have a small line with 2 tails coming off that I tie to the blocks but it will work either way.

The Jib line will tie off to one of the jib blocks on the tramp, travel to the block on the Jib Clew on the same side of the mast that the block you first tied it to is on. Go through the block and right back to the first block you started from then through it and through it's cleat. Across the tramp and through the opposite block in reverse, going thorough the cleat then around the block. Then on that side of the mast go to the other block on the Jib cleat and through it. Then back to the jib block you just cam from and tie it off. Clear as mud right. I will most likely make since once your doing it.

With the jib up practice a bit pulling the line back and forth moving the jib from one side to the other to make sure everything is moving smoothly and you haven't run something through funny. Once you get it it makes sense. Also by testing this way you will see what Doug means by the Jib blocks getting hung up under the mast.

Quote

Your jib halyard is also a 2-piece design with two brummel hooks. It runs through the ring and through the free end of the top piece of the forestay. Not this is very VERY important:

1. BOTH up and down halyards must run through the ring.
2. The s-hook must hook onto the shackle on the jib so that the open end faces down to catch the ring.
3. MOST IMPORTANT OF ALL: Test the jib halyard BEFORE you step the mast!!! The brummel hooks will NOT go through the forestay loop. If you have it on the wrong side, you will not be able to pull on the halyard to raise the jib. The idea is when you hook the halyard s-hook to the small shackle on the jib and pull it up, when it's raised, all the left over halyard line doesn't need to be coiled. You simply unclip the brummel hooks and store the halyard. So before stepping the mast, make sure that you can pull the halyard and the s-hook travels up. Discovering this after the mast has been stepped is a royal pain in the *****!

Doug I may need more info on this or some pics. I jury rigged my Jib Halyard and pretty sure it is not right even though it works. I put a small block on the pigtail of the top forstay and essentially made what is equivalent to a pulley system you use to raise a flag up a flagpole or curtains. It had another small block it goes through on the bottom. If I don't put the stupid thing on upside down so I have to tip the boat over and fix it. Then I pull down on one side raising the other to lift the jib. I have had trouble setting the ring from time to time. The entire loop goes through the ring at the top.

Are Brummel hooks the same thing as Sister clips. I am not sure what these are do you have a picture of these and how they work.

--
Dustin Finlinson • Magna, UT
Member: Utah Sailing Association
1982 Prindle 18
1986 Hobie 17
1982 Prindle 16
1980 Prindle 16(mostly)
1976 Prindle 16(mostly)
Check out "Prindle Sailors" on Facebook.
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Gentlemen

Thanks for the help! I will try to rig it next time I get out on the water. I guess my confusion was stemming from all the hardware mounted on the front crossbar. (2 single blocks and cleats each side)which it thought were part of the jib rigging but maybe they were part of a spinnaker system that was installed on the boat at one time.

My p18 has no spinnaker and no blocks mounted on the front crossbar. I wish the Jib blocks were there on mine I really don't like them on the tramp like they are. Bad for the knees. Mine is 1982 so setup should pretty similar minus an added Spinnaker.

--
Dustin Finlinson • Magna, UT
Member: Utah Sailing Association
1982 Prindle 18
1986 Hobie 17
1982 Prindle 16
1980 Prindle 16(mostly)
1976 Prindle 16(mostly)
Check out "Prindle Sailors" on Facebook.
--

Something like this



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Dustin Finlinson • Magna, UT
Member: Utah Sailing Association
1982 Prindle 18
1986 Hobie 17
1982 Prindle 16
1980 Prindle 16(mostly)
1976 Prindle 16(mostly)
Check out "Prindle Sailors" on Facebook.
--

If you have cam cleats and fairleads mounted on the front crossbar, they are more than likely for a barber hauler not a spinaker. That would be a good thing. Please describe where they are mounted and what they look like if you can not post a picture.

Yep, the barberhauler on a P18 should have a cheek block very close the ends of the front crossbar, with a V cleat closer to the center. You run a single line from the jib sheet where the barbarhauler hooks to it, through the cheek block (in the tramp side, out the front) straight along the crossbar, passing both cleats, then in the front of the cheek block on the other side, out the back and to the jib sheet.

While it is functional, its a pretty horrible system because the cleat to adjust the barberhauler is always on the leeward side of the boat, and the line usually jammed in there pretty good.

If your cleats and blocks are like I described, I can post a pic of mine if you still need help.

The way to rig the jib sheet itself is exactly as Quarath shows in the diagram above.

--
Rob
OKC
Pile of Nacra parts..
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You can move the P-18 jib blocks to the front crossbar by adding a track like the H-16. Then move the bridle anchors 18" forward and make a slightly longer pair of bridle wires so that you don't need to change forestay. I've done it to several boats and notice no difference in performance except cleaner tramp for crew. Pete 909-800-5237 Big Bear, Ca

The graphic is great, I have the line mentioned below in my current set up, I am yanking it:

Doug-p182-590

Ignore the manual when it says to tie a small line to your jib clew and then to the blocks. Forget it. Just shackle your jib blocks right to the jib clew itself.

I also have the barberhauler mentioned by Rider 55 and Yurdle. Currently the set up does not seem quite right: It pulls the jib sheet out some, but seems like it could be more effective.





edited by: kgatesman, Jun 27, 2009 - 08:09 AM

After additional research stemming from this discussion what is installed is definitely a barberhauler system.
Quarath- Excellent diagram! Any chance of getting a similar diagram for a barberhauler setup?

I believe I have the hardware to run either setup. What are the advantages of one method over the other.

Thanks for all the assistance.

As I don't have one on my boat and have never seen one or even know what it does it would be pretty difficult to diagram.

--
Dustin Finlinson • Magna, UT
Member: Utah Sailing Association
1982 Prindle 18
1986 Hobie 17
1982 Prindle 16
1980 Prindle 16(mostly)
1976 Prindle 16(mostly)
Check out "Prindle Sailors" on Facebook.
--

It is not a case of either, or, the barber hauler is used with the jib sheets.

Rider_55

After additional research stemming from this discussion what is installed is definitely a barberhauler system.
Quarath- Excellent diagram! Any chance of getting a similar diagram for a barberhauler setup?

I believe I have the hardware to run either setup. What are the advantages of one method over the other.

Thanks for all the assistance.

Is there a simpler system possible? I have a P18-2 that misses the complete jib system, so I'll have to get all the parts anyway, but I was wondering if it would not be possible to make it simpler, even if at the cost of performance.

Simpler system for the jib sheet and blocks or barberhauler?

--
Rob
OKC
Pile of Nacra parts..
--

What are you missing? I have the ratchet jib blocks, s hooks, jib halyard, clew blocks as well. That is everything you will need except the jib.

HULLFLYER

It is not a case of either, or, the barber hauler is used with the jib sheets.

Rider_55

After additional research stemming from this discussion what is installed is definitely a barberhauler system.
Quarath- Excellent diagram! Any chance of getting a similar diagram for a barberhauler setup?

I believe I have the hardware to run either setup. What are the advantages of one method over the other.

Thanks for all the assistance.

kgatesman

The graphic is great, I have the line mentioned below in my current set up, I am yanking it:

Doug-p182-590

Ignore the manual when it says to tie a small line to your jib clew and then to the blocks. Forget it. Just shackle your jib blocks right to the jib clew itself.

I also have the barberhauler mentioned by Rider 55 and Yurdle. Currently the set up does not seem quite right: It pulls the jib sheet out some, but seems like it could be more effective.

edited by: kgatesman, Jun 27, 2009 - 08:09 AM

The barberhauler is only for broad reaching (since we don't downwind our cats). You want the jib sheet to be more in-line with the hulline going up to the jib clew. So the barberhaul simply changes the angle of the sheet to the jib by pulling it out towards the far edge of the boat rather than halfway in on the trampoline. Yes, some. It may not seem like much, but every little bit helps. That's a normal impression. Ideally the line should be continuous and long enough to control from the windward side just like the jib sheet, ut it's not necessary. Typically when sailing broad or trying to do the "wild thing", it takes the crew to be on the leeward side anyway.

catdan

Is there a simpler system possible? I have a P18-2 that misses the complete jib system, so I'll have to get all the parts anyway, but I was wondering if it would not be possible to make it simpler, even if at the cost of performance.

The Prindle 18-2 has a fairly advanced and complicated jib control system: 4-way system to move the main blocks in an out, tracks to move the blocks fore (in light air) and aft (in heavy air) and the barberhauler system for broad reaching. If you want to simplify it for pleasure sailing you can simply eliminate the 4-way system and bolt the blocks directly to the tracks. This way you won't have any lines, cable, bungie running through the 'sock' in the trampoline. You can also ignore the barberhauler. Now you just have the jib blocks, preset the tracks for the wind conditions and that's it.

yurdle

Simpler system for the jib sheet and blocks or barberhauler?

Yes, for the jib sheet and blocks. On my boat, the complete system is missing; all I have is the jib sail and no parts whatsoever. It's only recreational sailing, so I wondered whether I can save expenses and make it friendlier at the same time.

You can sail without the jib until you can put the parts together.

I don't know does the P18.2 have the Jib blocks mounted somewhere or are they the same general setup as the P18. The main blocks with cleats for each side of the Jib are the expensive parts I think mine are about $150 each new but the rest isn't to bad.

You need an S hook and shackle for the Halyard and some line. And couple blocks for the Jib clew and some line there.

I was lucky enough to have the main Jib blocks and salvaged the rest off an old P16 down the street that the guy didn't have a clue what any of the stuff was for anyhow. He was gonna rig and outboard to it and told me I could have any of the rigging I wanted.

--
Dustin Finlinson • Magna, UT
Member: Utah Sailing Association
1982 Prindle 18
1986 Hobie 17
1982 Prindle 16
1980 Prindle 16(mostly)
1976 Prindle 16(mostly)
Check out "Prindle Sailors" on Facebook.
--

Lots of data/questions here.... ALL GOOD STUFF

Simpler system?
Yes, you can:

Remove the Barberhauler line and rings/blocks that go around the jib sheets. As described above, it helps a little to use it (at the right time) so not having it only hurts a little.

Remove the 4 way jib adjusters... this one hurts alot more.. but you can just mount to the tracks as mentioned above.

Remove the Jib... Ouch.. this one really hurts, makes tacking much harder, sailing slower, pointing much lower

Remove the Mast... well now you dont have to adjust anything... and have a great raft

Prindle Pete.... Yes, you can move the bridal wire mounts, wires and the jib blocks forward (and lose the 4 way advantage)... but you MUST be drastically altering the performance of the cat... i would GRAVELY FEAR getting hit with a 30+MPH with your rig moved 1.5' forward and your center of effort / pivot / gravity / etc in a new location....





edited by: andrewscott, Jun 30, 2009 - 04:43 PM

Don't fear the equipment, learn what it is, and use it. You will be a much better sailor, and have more options to power up or depower the boat as needed. Like Andrew said, why turn it into a raft. When you learn to use these adjustments you will be glad that you have them.

This photo from the owners manual helped me figure out what was wrong with my barberhauler rig:

In my case, the PO had only only the outboard side of the jib sheet passing through the barberhauler block.

As you can see in the picture, on each side of the boat, the outboard jib sheet passes through the block's sheave, and the inboard jib sheet is contained by a becket using a block like this:

http://www.harkenstore.com/uniface.urd/scpdinw1.ShowProd?B4RPMEB9Y8U9QW

It is interesting to note that the pit tail (which Doug recommends not using above) is not on the boat in the barberhauler picture!



edited by: kgatesman, Jul 01, 2009 - 09:42 AM

The purpose of the 3/16 x 5 foot jib pigtail is so that you can sheet your jib in quicker while tacking. Less line to pull in. The same reason some sailors use a pigtail from the boom to the upper mainsheet block, if you have a 8 to 1 system and you can use an 1 foot pigtail, it is 8 less feet of sheet that you have to pull in to get to the same place, and also have 8 less feet of mainsheet to contend with on the boat.

pigtails:
I had 35' of mainsheet, and removed about 10' after adding a pig tail... who doesn't want less sheet to have to manage?

Also... to a small degree.. there is less windage with a piece of 5mm dynema vs a 4sheeve block and 8 pieces of line going through it... this is a small windage savings (esp since its on the back of the boat) but every little bit helps :)

Downside on Jib pigtails... they probably get caught / fouled a little easier than if you didn't use them, but a line to the bridal/furler handles this 99% of the time.

Quote

As you can see in the picture, on each side of the boat, the outboard jib sheet passes through the block's sheave, and the inboard jib sheet is contained by a becket using a block like this:

http://www.harkenstore.com/uniface.urd/scpdinw1.ShowProd?B4RPMEB9Y8U9QW

I replaced my block & becket with a simple, and lighter plastic ring. it captures both side of the jib sheet. It was a little to wide so i used a heat gun and softened it, then bent it into an oblong shape

HULLFLYER

The purpose of the 3/16 x 5 foot jib pigtail is so that you can sheet your jib in quicker while tacking. Less line to pull in. The same reason some sailors use a pigtail from the boom to the upper mainsheet block, if you have a 8 to 1 system and you can use an 1 foot pigtail, it is 8 less feet of sheet that you have to pull in to get to the same place, and also have 8 less feet of mainsheet to contend with on the boat.

Here's why I disagree with this, especially for the jibsheet. I've always taught my crew to "sail through the tack". Never once let the jib luff. The best way to do this is while going across the trampoline (ON YOUR FEET) simply hold on to the lazy jibsheet and you counter the tacking jib in motion. Just by going across, you maintain a constant sail on the jib and the sheet pulls in. My jib sheet is exactly long enough to do this. If I had a pigtail, it changes the sheet length and you're left fumbling with the sheet after crossing the tramp.

I normally tack from the trapped out position, it sounds like you are tacking while sitting on the boat.

yurdle

Simpler system for the jib sheet and blocks or barberhauler?

Just for the jib sheet. It's only recreational sailing--I believe the barberhauler is a mini-adjustment

HULLFLYER

What are you missing? I have the ratchet jib blocks, s hooks, jib halyard, clew blocks as well. That is everything you will need except the jib.

Just the jib halyard ring, jib blocks, s-hook, and jib halyard are needed. Ill go with the simple setup as described in the manual. Not sure about the clew blocks--will I need those?

I only have the jib sheet including the 3 holes when a mouse ate thru it, so I could also use some Dacron patches.





edited by: catdan, Jul 03, 2009 - 06:10 AM

Yes you will need the clew blocks, without them it will not work. Are you referring to the sail when you said that a mouse ate through it. When a sailor refers to "sheets" they are referring to the lines that are used to adjust the sail settings.

HULLFLYER

Yes you will need the clew blocks, without them it will not work. Are you referring to the sail when you said that a mouse ate through it. When a sailor refers to "sheets" they are referring to the lines that are used to adjust the sail settings.

Sorry, typo. Yes, the mouse ate thru the sail.

I don't think you actually can simplify the P18 Jib Blocks/Sheet system in any way other than removing the barberhauler. I'd say that you really won't gain anything by removing it either, but since it is so unfriendly to use you probably won't lose anything by removing it.

Aside from the barberhauler, the P18 Jib system is as simple as it gets. You can move the line between the jib blocks to different holes in the tramp before you go out as a jib traveler system (just untie and retie w/ a truckers hitch) to spill some wind if necessary...other than that its like the nacra 5.2 system sans traveler - simple as it gets.

I tried using no pigtail on the jib clew, as well as two different lengths. (I currently use a short pigtail.) If its too long its horrible, but once you shorten it to a certain point it doesn't have any effect to go shorter. Until you get used to it, though, you may find it to have fairly significant effects on sailing the boat..

I'd never heard of using a pigtail on the upper main block until this thread. That's a pretty intriguing idea. I don't see how it could shorten the amount of mainsheet that's free on the tramp, but that would Definitely shorten the overall amount of sheet needed....might even let me lose the traveler sheet.

Andrew: I actually just set up a barberhauler (inside the crossbar) on my n5.2. I also abandoned the block/becket system and just bought 2 SS 1.5" rings. It seemed far cheaper, simpler, and more effective for a bit, but I was noticing yesterday that it seemed like when I have tension in the barberhauler and I try to sheet the jib ALL the way in that there is a ton of friction and resistance from the two lines rubbing each other. Do you notice this? I wonder if something shaped more like a 'V' that would keep the lines separate would work better.



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Rob
OKC
Pile of Nacra parts..
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This has been an extremely helpful thread for me, thanks everyone!

I must echo the thanks of Kenny. You all have been VERY helpful. I was able to get my boat out over the weekend and get everything rigged and functional. It was a very eventful few days which I intend to chronicle in another thread shortly.

Thanks again.

Hi guys, first time on forum, this has been a great topic, does anyone have a pict they would be willing to email me with this jib setup?
Thanks!!!

Hi -

I'm resurrecting this thread with my first post. I have a line on a very reasonably priced P-18, but I have no Prindle experience. The seller mentions a sister clip being missing and I assume half the jib halyard.

Question 1: Is a sister clip the same as a brummel hook?

Question 2: I have an old Hobie 18 mostly parts boat. Can I use the roller furling from that on the Prindle?

Thanks in advance for your help!


George

Yes and yes

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Tim
81 Hobie 16
87 Nacra 5.7
Austin, TX
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