I am considering purchasing a 1980's P-18. I have sailed H-16's in the past. I will be sailing on Texas lakes, mostly with crew. But can the P-18 be handled solo? Is it much more difficult than the H-16?

Thanks,

Bill Beach

Bigger always requires more work, I sail a H16 solo, but have sailed both an H18 and P18 solo. Most of the 18's and 5.5m on our beach are sailed solo. I will leave it up to Andrew to chime in, and address specifics. Your only problem sailing an 18' solo would be having to right it when you capsize.

Chime:
I agree... can be handled, with a furler, you can depower quick and easy if you get in trouble.. need a righting bag or pole to get it up from a capsize.

H16-71388

Bigger always requires more work, I sail a H16 solo, but have sailed both an H18 and P18 solo. Most of the 18's and 5.5m on our beach are sailed solo. I will leave it up to Andrew to chime in, and address specifics. Your only problem sailing an 18' solo would be having to right it when you capsize.

Thanks for the reply, I weigh @250lbs and figured that would be enough to get it back up.

bbeach1

H16-71388

Bigger always requires more work, I sail a H16 solo, but have sailed both an H18 and P18 solo. Most of the 18's and 5.5m on our beach are sailed solo. I will leave it up to Andrew to chime in, and address specifics. Your only problem sailing an 18' solo would be having to right it when you capsize.

Thanks for the reply, I weigh @250lbs and figured that would be enough to get it back up.

I righted my p18 solo last weekend at just a touch over 250#. You will have to get to it QUICK if you hope to get it back up solo. If you take any time getting to the righting line you may have some trouble bringing her back over on your own.

I sail my H18 solo when conditions are right, and love it. I hope you have help getting it to and from the water. I know mine is to big to roll on beachwheels by myself. I do not find the H18 much more difficult then the H16 solo. I have daggerboards to worry about but other then that it sails about the same. The difference is what conditions I am comfortable sailing the 18 in solo.

I haven't flipped while solo but at 200+#'s I know I would not be getting it back up solo, which is why I have a VHF, the beach has a rescue boat, and I don't go out in some conditions.

I love the experience of sailing solo trapped out off the wing with the hull in the air.

--
Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
--

smfinley

I love the experience of sailing solo trapped out off the wing with the hull in the air.

AGREED!







edited by: andrewscott, Jul 09, 2009 - 11:41 AM

Quote

Thanks for the reply, I weigh @250lbs and figured that would be enough to get it back up.

Be safe, spend $100 and get a bag...

andrewscott

Quote

Thanks for the reply, I weigh @250lbs and figured that would be enough to get it back up.

Be safe, spend $100 and get a bag...

Good advise, any suggestion on best place to get one? Also, do the P-18s need a mast floater?

Nice Pics BTW



edited by: bbeach1, Jul 09, 2009 - 10:53 AM

thanks (pics)
Yes murrays.com or saltydog.com

My murrays was bought used and did work, but develped leaks that i couldnt fix so i got a big one from saltydog.

Not sure if saltydog has the big one anymore, call them to ask

I am new to beachcat sailing, and find the P18 is great to sail alone.

I have yet had the chance to prove that I can right it by myself (weigh 220 and have a righting bag too) although former P18 owners and the owners manual say I can, from the owners manual:

"If you are single-handing your boat, carry your jib bag on board. Grab onto the righting line, scoop up a bag of water and hold it over your shoulder while leaning back."

That is a LOAD OF CRAP.

There is NO WAY... you can hold 100 lbs of water in a bag (or whatever your "jib bag holds" over your shoulder and hang on to a righting line and pull your cat up.

It is hard enough to get a righting bag (that is connected to the righting line) around your shoulder while righting.

PS righting your boat can be a matter of life and death (or at least death of the boat if capsized in the wrong place)
this is a skill and should be MASTERED (or at least practiced) so when the need arises.. you know what to do.
I would suggest you capsize your cat near beach (or with others around) to make sure you can...



edited by: andrewscott, Jul 09, 2009 - 01:43 PM

If you are having trouble righting solo, a bob will only compound your problems. Even the relatively light weight of the bob on the end of a 30 foot lever requires quite a bit of additional force to be exerted on the righting line.

Seal the mast and get off the upper hull quickly after a capsize and you should be good.

What is with the "load of **** language"? I don't see the 100 pound claim. Points on practicing are well taken.

The owners manual uses the "jib bag" language, thus the quotes. I bought my righting bag from Murrays.

I have never sailed m P18 SOLO but since my crew has always been kids and Family I might as well be.

--
Dustin Finlinson • Magna, UT
Member: Utah Sailing Association
1982 Prindle 18
1986 Hobie 17
1982 Prindle 16
1980 Prindle 16(mostly)
1976 Prindle 16(mostly)
Check out "Prindle Sailors" on Facebook.
--

kgatesman

What is with the "load of **** language"? I don't see the 100 pound claim.

Pardon my language . I wasn't saying that to you personally, but to the manual that suggested that.

Let me re-phrase...
I find it "Bullhockeypuck" that anyone would be able to hold a Bullhockeypuck'in bag of water (heavy enough to make any difference) while hanging the Bullhockeypuck off a righting line... hoping to get their Bullhockeypuck'in boat righted...

I would assume any jib bag could hold at least 8 gal of water. At 8lbs per gal of h20.. a 12 gal bag weighs 96lbs.

andrewscott

Be safe, spend $100 and get a bag...

Prindle Owners Manual

"If you are single-handing your boat, carry your jib bag on board. Grab onto the righting line, scoop up a bag of water and hold it over your shoulder while leaning back."

It took me a minute to figure out what "jib bag" even meant. I think this was "over optimistic" language on Prindles part for the manual. Although if you were right on the edge of being able to right, then whatever extra weight you could scoop up in the "bag that you store your jib in" would probably help. Wouldn't have to be 100 pounds, and probably wouldn't, unless you were built like Robbie Daniel.

I've never used a water bag or seen one used, if someone could either draw a diagram or take photos of deployment that would be great.

Capsizing the boat on a grassy lawn and getting everything in position is an easy way to take that sort of pictures for demo.

Note to all: Let's be careful to keep it nice in here. Remember that it's hard to write facial expressions and easy to be miss-understood.


--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

How To Create Your Signature

How To Create Your Own Cool Avatar

How To Display Pictures In The Forums.
--

I forgot to mention that I a single hand my Hobie 18 Magnum quite often. In fact a couple of weeks ago I single handed the Fort Walton Beach Yacht Clubs "Round the Island" race with a total non-stop GPS distance of 136 miles in 17 hours and 15 minutes.

I'm 6 foot 7 inches, 240 pounds, and 53 years old. I've only sailed catamarans since 1992, making me a comparative newbie to the sport.

--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

How To Create Your Signature

How To Create Your Own Cool Avatar

How To Display Pictures In The Forums.
--

Good points, the "jib bags" I have seen are single layers of dacron, and certainly would not have the water holding power of a proper righting bag.
I did not intend to recommend that a "jib bag" is the key to sailing solo on a P18. Rather, I was attempting to point out that I have met people that have righted P18s solo and their anecdotes are supported by the manufacturer's language.
Andrew, thanks for your follow up comment and thanks for sharing so much knowledge!



edited by: kgatesman, Jul 09, 2009 - 05:44 PM

Guys,
Righting a boat is a little bit of an art. If you let the wind that capsized you work for you than you can right a boat fairly easily. First step is to always, repeat always get the bows into the wind. Simply walk out on the bow, and the boat will slowly weather vane the bows into the wind. Now you are in the proper position to get a wind assisted righting. The wind will get under the sails and make the process much easier. Always uncleat the jib, main and especially the traveler, this actually will let the sails help pick the mast off the water, while simultaneously offsetting the very weight of the sails themselves. Do some research on wind assisted righting. If there is enough wind, you don't even need a righting line, just lean back holding the dolphin striker. If two are involved, and your good at this, one of you can actually get back on the boat without even getting wet. Somebody has a video of me doing this somewhere.

--
Philip
--

On a P18, one person cannot turn the boat into the wind by standing on the bow: it takes about 300 pounds on the bow.

The Prindle manual recommends a trip aft:

"If the mast is pointed into the wind, the boat may flip over in the other direction as you try to right it. To swing bows around into the wind, walk back towards the transom slowly until bows are positioned properly."

the manuel also says to point your hulls into the wind. now on my trac 14 the boat will be perpendicular to the wind always. any advise?

Kenny:

I don't think that the P18 has higher volume hulls than my Nacra 5.5 and my 180 lbs is enough to get it to turn into the wind.Standing aft would be pretty dangerous. When you pull the boat up, it would be facing downwind and will disappear.

RCH:

Tell manuel to get forward of the mast to rotate the bows into the wind. Easiest position to right in is when the wind is blowing halfway between the top of the mast and the bows.

Righting can be made easier by installing a carbon spar. It is a little cost prohibitive though.

I meant to say manual. like the hobie manual. my bad. for a minute i could not understand what you were talking about. so i stand infront of the mast step? does that change the center of drag or something? or do you actually have to paddle the boat around. Just a fun thought...have you seen how big the mast float is on a macgregor 36 catamaran? 6'wide 4'long 1' thick

Quote

Andrew, thanks for your follow up comment and thanks for sharing so much knowledge!

my pleasure.. again i hope you didn't think i was being rude to YOU... where as i meant i disagreed with the handbook

RCH:

I knew what you meant I was just screwing around.

The boat will tend to rotate around the point that has the most weight on it (it sits lower in the water than the rest of the boat). If you stand on the bow, the bow sits lower in the water and creates more drag, which slows it down. The stern will move downwind faster than the bow and the boat will turn into the wind. The same concept works if you stand on the stern, but it tends to sink faster since it is lower volume than the bow.

The idea is that you get the bows just off the wind so that the wind is pushing on the tramp to help you to get the mast head out of the water. Once the masthead is clear of the water, the wind gets under it and the boat goes up like a rocket. As soon as you realize that the boat is going to right, just for the dolphin striker and hang on with both hands. This helps the boat to stabilize and prevents it (sometimes) from going over on the other side.

The more wind that you have, the closer the bow needs to be to the windd to prevent the boat from switching the low and high hulls. You don't need to expose as much of the tramp as the wind increases since the same amount of pressure can be exerted on a smaller area of the tramp.

When the wind hits 20 knots, I am only about 10 degrees off the wind when I right. Your numbers will vary based on the weight of both your crew and your rig. I solo, so my crew weight is only 180 lbs, but my light rig (35 lb mast) means that

I don't need as much help from the wind as I would if I had a 75 lb aluminumm setup. I used to think that any 18 foot cat was pretty easy to right, but borrowed an NF-18 and found it much more difficult to right dispite 6" less beam and a comparable length mast. The carbon fiber setups really allow you to gain confidence in your ability to right the boat on your own. The F18 seemed to take forever to come up and was more easily affected by gusts, which is the reason I was righting it in the first place.

Wow, thanks for all the good advise guys. I did buy a 1980 Prindle 18 in really nice shape, #745 on the sail. I managed to get it rigged and took it out a few times this weekend, pretty light airs but enough to get it moving. Just what I needed to start re-learning cat sailing.

Bill Beach