Of course it sucks not being able to sail it til next spring, but 2 books are on the way,so I can figure out the theory at least.
I'm hoping you can give me some advice on moving it home. It's in a bitch of a location, pulled up on a narrow angled ramp with the rudders just out over the water, between trees. Not tall enough trees to be useful in getting the mast down, just tall enough to be a pain. I'm very leery of trying to sail it around the point/across bay to the nearest launch. My two choices are rig an electric trolling motor & drive it around, or disassemble it & carry the pieces up a stairway (50' ish). I am mechanically minded, with color coded tape, pictures, manuals, & help from here I'm confident of getting it put back together next spring. Takedown also means I can get it in the garage alongside the power boats & other sailboat.
Either way, the mast has to come down. I will have two fit helpers, looking for advice on the best/safest method. Can 3 adults walk it down the tramp? I think I read in some other posts here about having to turn it 90* I can visualize the oval cross section resulting in the rear edge binding on the cross beam & bending something if it is lowered while lined up parallel to the hulls. Do we just turn it 90* to the hulls & lower? What order to undo rigging? Is there value in using a long pole with a "U" at the end to "catch the mast say 12' up as it comes down? Ideas on having 1 person hold lines and/or trapeze wires from the front of the boat?
I really don't want to break anything, or worse injure someone, but I need to get this moved Fri/Sat. The window before winter strikes is getting pretty small up here, & I don't want to leave it sit on the shore all winter. Maybe I should have bought a waterfront place in Florida????



edited by: Edchris177, Dec 02, 2009 - 01:06 PM

Ther should be 2 holes ( one on each side of the mast base which is attached to the mast) put a clevis pin through and this will act as a hinge when you lower the mast. Have one person on the boat and push the mast forward releasing a little tension while the other person removes the clevis pin from the adjuster that connects the bridal wires and fore stay. Continue holding the mast forward until the other person gets on the boat with you. Do not let them pull themselves up on the boat using the shroud as this will pull the mast down. When you both are ready and have hold of the mast one on each side, turn it 90% so that the diamond wires are facing fore and aft and start lowering and walking back on the tramp at the same time when you get to the back of the tramp, place your back foot on the rear cross bar and lower the reat of the way. When it is all the way down have one person still hold the end of the mast while the other removes the clevis pin that is in the mast base and you are done. It can be done easily with 2 but three make it a bit easier. Remove the rudders if you decide to pull it up the narrow ramp.

http://www.nacra.us/nacra/newnacra.pdf

Nacra manual - pages 9 & 10 show mast stepping procedure

best of luck



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Gordon
Nacra 5.5SL
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Great Stuff!

Taking the mast down is fairly easy, but is hard to describe and can be an adventure ther first time. Just remember to take it SLOW and communicate, the mast isn't that heavy itself but the leverage can make it get away from you.

Attach a 50' of good rope to the forestay. I usually use 5 half hitches on the forestay above the bottom eye so it can't slide off (if anyone has a better knot let me know). Put guy 1 on the forestay rope. Have guy 2 standing on the tramp, push the mast forward and turn it 90 degrees. Guy 3 puts the mast step pin through the base casting to capture the mast on teh ball(a narrow number 1 screwdriver works in a pinch if you are missing the pin). This is important because it keeps the mast from falling off the ball and hurting you as you lower it. Guy 2 on the tramp holds the mast pushed forward, the forestay is loose, the guy 3 undoes the forestay adjuster pin and guy 1 on the rope tightens it up. Now you start to SLOWLY lower it (still turned 90 degrees) initially the guy 1 (on the rope) will take most of the weight and guy 2 (on the tramp) will just keep it from going sideways. The lower the mast gets the heavier it will be for guy 1 on the rope (because the angle is getting shallower). The guy 2 on the tramp has to take up the extra weight and it is good if he can lower it to his should and walk it back to the rear beam. Guy 3 should be standing behind the rear beam take the mast above his head while the tramp guy lowers it to him. Tramp guy 2 and guy 3 then lower it to the beams while rope guy just tries to hold on. You can then take out the step pin, undo the rigging and remove the mast.

That's how I do it anyway. You can do it with 2 people if the tramp guy can take the weight of the mast while rope guys runs around, or you put a stepladder behind the boat to put the mast on while you step off the boat. Let me know if you think I've missed something important.

Last thing, don't forget to keep the mast rotated if you don't you will either break the step casting on the bottom of your mast or bend the dolphin striker rod where the ball sits (you will know what I'm talking about once you have it 2/3 of the way down).

Oh and definitely get it to a good loading spot. Walking even 1 hull up 50' of stairs scares the crap out of me, they are over 150 lbs each and not easy to hold onto.

D.



edited by: Wolfman, Dec 02, 2009 - 01:46 PM

--
Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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My recco: Don't try this on an angle the first time. Get the boat to a flat location. It's a BIG mast and you do not want to risk the step casting or dolphin stiker rod.

Agree with all that has been written, begin rotating 90 degrees as soon as she starts to come back. One in front, Two on the tramp, and a catcher/holder aft. Stay focused!

Re: Disassembly/Reassembly - Slow and steady. Mark parts and photograph every step. Tighten bolts (especially hull straps) just a tad beyond finger tight. Everything threads into soft metal so don't over torque! The idea is that any twisting and all you need to do is re-tap for a larger bolt vs. repairing a ripped out deck. Download the manuals and parts lists.

please instruct everyone (or at least the "catcher") to NOT STAND UNDER THE MAST as it lowers... anything can go wrong and the mast will leave a pretty big mark on someones head (which will now be level with their feet).

the "catcher" should stand off to the side and only get "under" the mast when its within reach.

Good point! We actually dropped the mast one time and it was a good thing we weren't directly under it! The aluminum mast itself doesn't weigh more than about 80 lbs but if you drop a 3 lb hammer from 3 feet onto your head... you get the point, and the top of the mast starts at about 30+ feet up.

Hey anyone have a carbon mast? I heard those can be under 40 lbs! :)

--
Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
--

Same here, dropped it without rotating due to green crew. (I was not focused)

Learned how to replace the dolphin striker rod the following weekend. Fortunately no noggins damaged, just a $75 part.

i used to have crew "catch" my H18 mast. Had a gf standing under it when the hinge broke and it came down on her.. i yelled at the top of my lungs and she moved about 2". it missed her.. by about 1/2"

she was not very interested in sailing ever again... if it hit her.. it surely would have killed her.

If you use a screwdriver instead of the proper length clevis pin you run a very good risk of breaking the mast base in the end of the mast. As you lower it you have now rotated it 90 degrees and the screwdriver handle or other end will be coming down on the front crossbar. If it is a good screwdriver the mast base will break off at the holes if it is a cheap screwdriver it will bend, neither one is good. If you do not have a clevis pin use a bolt and nut just long enough to do the job. I have sailed nacras for many years and have seen many mast bases broken for this reason. I also tie a safety line while lowering my 6.0 mast in case anything goes wrong. I have seen mast come down for all kinds of reasons, mast hinge giving way, mast ball threads stripped so mast came off ball and all, main halyard breaking while using it to assist. Just tie a safety line to the mast and the dolphin striker bar and if something goes wrong you may prevent a serious injury.

Wolfman

Great Stuff!

Taking the mast down is fairly easy, but is hard to describe and can be an adventure ther first time. Just remember to take it SLOW and communicate, the mast isn't that heavy itself but the leverage can make it get away from you.

Attach a 50' of good rope to the forestay. I usually use 5 half hitches on the forestay above the bottom eye so it can't slide off (if anyone has a better knot let me know). Put guy 1 on the forestay rope. Have guy 2 standing on the tramp, push the mast forward and turn it 90 degrees. Guy 3 puts the mast step pin through the base casting to capture the mast on teh ball(a narrow number 1 screwdriver works in a pinch if you are missing the pin). This is important because it keeps the mast from falling off the ball and hurting you as you lower it. Guy 2 on the tramp holds the mast pushed forward, the forestay is loose, the guy 3 undoes the forestay adjuster pin and guy 1 on the rope tightens it up. Now you start to SLOWLY lower it (still turned 90 degrees) initially the guy 1 (on the rope) will take most of the weight and guy 2 (on the tramp) will just keep it from going sideways. The lower the mast gets the heavier it will be for guy 1 on the rope (because the angle is getting shallower). The guy 2 on the tramp has to take up the extra weight and it is good if he can lower it to his should and walk it back to the rear beam. Guy 3 should be standing behind the rear beam take the mast above his head while the tramp guy lowers it to him. Tramp guy 2 and guy 3 then lower it to the beams while rope guy just tries to hold on. You can then take out the step pin, undo the rigging and remove the mast.

That's how I do it anyway. You can do it with 2 people if the tramp guy can take the weight of the mast while rope guys runs around, or you put a stepladder behind the boat to put the mast on while you step off the boat. Let me know if you think I've missed something important.

Last thing, don't forget to keep the mast rotated if you don't you will either break the step casting on the bottom of your mast or bend the dolphin striker rod where the ball sits (you will know what I'm talking about once you have it 2/3 of the way down).

Oh and definitely get it to a good loading spot. Walking even 1 hull up 50' of stairs scares the crap out of me, they are over 150 lbs each and not easy to hold onto.

D.edited by: Wolfman, Dec 02, 2009 - 01:46 PM

Hmm, didn't have the problem with my screwdriver (but it was relatively tiny one). I did bend my dolphinstriker rod by not rotating though. The handle has to face the bow however or you will never get it off without raising the mast again. Better to use the correct pin if you can get one easily enough (Murray's Marine stocks them).

Not sure I get the setup for the safety line though? Sounds like a good idea. I dropped the mast once, didn't wreck anything but I was lucky.

--
Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
--

Quote

The handle has to face the bow however or you will never get it off without raising the mast again.

This is important. You need to make sure the (bitter?) end, the end that slides in and out of the casting is pointing towards the back of the boat after you rotate the mast. Otherwise you have to raise the mast over halfway back up and rotate it 180 degrees, then back down.

andrewscott

please instruct everyone (or at least the "catcher") to NOT STAND UNDER THE MAST as it lowers... anything can go wrong and the mast will leave a pretty big mark on someones head (which will now be level with their feet).

the "catcher" should stand off to the side and only get "under" the mast when its within reach.

/second (from experience)
Can't stress this one enough.

Quote

Continue holding the mast forward until the other person gets on the boat with you. Do not let them pull themselves up on the boat using the shroud as this will pull the mast down.

Heh, good tip. From experience?


--
Rob
OKC
Pile of Nacra parts..
--

Wolfman,

I have a carbon mast. It runs about 35 lbs and is pretty easy to step single handed until you need to tighten the standing rigging. I have done it a couple of times by hooking up to the trap wires (in harness) and almost sitting down while I adjust the bridles. Much easier with two people.

Mmmm, I now want a carbon mast!!!

Seriously I think everyone has a slightly different way of getting the thing down. The toughest thing is when you do it the first time, then it makes more sense and gets less scary. The main thing is that you take your time and make sure no one gets the mast dropped on them or overloaded and screws up thier backs.

The worst thing that you can do to the boat is break the base casting or the dolphinstriker rod. Both are about a $60 touch. Not the end of the world.

If no spares are included I would suggest purchasing the Nacra Pins and Rings kit from Murray's marine for $20 that comes with the mast step pin as well as a spare for all the types of pins on the boat (your going to lose one or two at some time or another anyway).

--
Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
--

Thanks for all the advice. I also had a good chat with Jack from the factory yesterday, I think I have the gist of it. Like stated the first time is always the most angst.
I don't have time to order any parts as this move has to occur on Fri, but the advice for a $20 spare parts is good. Damn, we lost a galvanized dock pin while removing docks last month. I don't know how you can't find a 5" pin on a sand bottom, but we managed to do it.
I was visualizing the screwdriver thing, & the poster who thought it would break something. I think as long as whatever you use doesn't protrude very far through the fitting, is taped in place so it can't move, & of course don't have the handle facing the stern when the mast comes down, it should work. You can't always get what you want, so I have to use what I have.
Jack told me the hulls weigh 90-100 lbs each, which makes sense. The boat is 380ish, subtract 50 for the mast, some more for beams, tramp, rudders & rigging, leaves 200ish for the hulls.
Jack seems like a really good guy, spent way more time than I expected just brainstorming ideas. He came up with a very simple mount for an electric motor, so if the wind is loow & I go that route, I'll knock it together in a few minutes & drive her down the lake the nearest launch. I looked at some aerial photos, & the marina confirmed that their is clearance under a bridge, so we are gearing up to go at oh-dark-thirty tomorrow.
Question for HullFlyer...can you elaborate on the safety line? Do you mean tieing a couple of tight wraps around the base of the mast, then going below the crossbar to the pin/DS? I can see something acting as a second hinge to keep the base from going wild if the mast base were to come apart, or do you mean something different?
When I looked at the boat I saw a pin that went through the base, perpendicular to the hulls. It was in the forward 1/2 of the base. You can just see it if you blow up the picture. I assumed this was the "captive" system, but I can't find any good pictures. Any other thoughts if it is NOT the captive system, or do they all have a hole for the purpose of stepping?

Thanks again for all the posts,lots of good advice. Here is a pic of her.





edited by: Edchris177, Dec 03, 2009 - 07:32 AM

I have a small jam cleat close to the mast base (see picture) that i store the halyard in when i am not rigged.

before i step i have a small (1') 1/4" line that is tied around my dolphin striker and i run it through the cleat (with plenty of slack) and i put a stopper knot at the end. It is not rigged in the picture above, but i try to do it every time i rig. I leave it rigged while the mast is up.

this will prevent the base of the mast from moving much if my ball breaks (or pin, or halyard, etc). One time i broke my mast hinge and the base of the mast flew up as the top of the mast flew down....

this SAVED my sail a few months ago when i demasted when my Portuguese turnbuckle broke.





edited by: andrewscott, Dec 03, 2009 - 09:34 AM

Quote

When I looked at the boat I saw a pin that went through the base, perpendicular to the hulls. It was in the forward 1/2 of the base.

That's your captive system pin. So you are go for mast drop! I bought the Murrays parts kit. Good idea.

Quote

Thanks for all the advice. I also had a good chat with Jack from the factory yesterday, I think I have the gist of it. Like

He's very helpful. I talked to him when I bent the heck out of the Dolphin S. Rod.

Wow, that's a beaut! Looks like the tramp is just detensioned. I jealous. A little bit of polishing and you will be good to go! Good luck!

--
Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
--

I agree. She's in great shape! You got a good deal.

edchris,

Cograts, that Nacra is in really good condition, I jealous 2. I recommend you download the manual from the link above given by Gordon, take page 10 with you when you go pick the boat up. You will not be able to stand on that tramp, even if you retension the tramp you don't know what condition it's in. The 2 cables attached to the forward crossbar are your trap cables and can be utilized in lowering the mast to preventing sidesway, with cat on level ground, attach rope to forestay and lower mast untill someone at the rear of the boat can reach over head and lower mast onto rear crossbar, http://www.thebeachcats.c…94cfee23d6f025daddf3a0a3. Then your only problem will be keeping the mast rotated at 90*. If cat is on trailer when attempting this, make sure cat is strapped firmly to trailer.

Now that you have a winter project, you might want to check this out:- http://www.poliglow-int.com/

Turbo

Good point. And you do not want to be trying to reinstall the tramp in a hurry. It is not easy or straight forward for a newbie and you will make an inconvenient mistake. I had to drill and retap for one of the strap bolts and one of the moon washers.(these are on the inside of the front cross beams and inhibit rotation).

Thanks for the info. I have downloaded several documents, will look for/print pg 10.
I was thinking that with the pin in the forward 1/2 if the mast there was no way it could be tilted backwards. Upon further thought, if the pin only serves to fix the coupling, it can still rotate backwards.
The tramp is OK to stand on, it is a bit saggy,looks like the rear rope has been slacked, but maybe the tramp needs replacement. What you are looking at in the picture is an old tramp that is just lying on top of the real one, I presume it was put there as a weather cover, it is only held in place by a few weights. I took it off for inspection & bounced on the tramp near the side rails to check for excessive flexing along the hulls. There was almost no movement, so I'm assuming that part of the hulls are sound.
I don't know if they leak, no water came out when I pulled the plugs, but maybe it has to be more of a tilt.
I'm bringing a survival floater jacket & cell phone with me when I motor it across the lake, just in case it sinks out from under me. Man you guys who live in the Southern States are lucky, tomorrow is going to be chilly!

Just scrolled up & saved a copy of that manual. I see it is for the newer boats,(570 vs 5.7) but hey, it has pictures! Now I understand the captive system, that pic is better than a lot of writing! Thanks for that bit of intel, it's printed & in the waterproof bagg, along with my satellite shot of the lake courtesy of Google Earth. It's not a marine map, but should suffice for my purposes.



edited by: Edchris177, Dec 03, 2009 - 08:12 PM

Quote

Upon further thought, if the pin only serves to fix the coupling, it can still rotate backwards.

Yep! It's just there to grab the ball. Good luck with your move and again congrats on aquiring a really nice cat.

sweeeeettt vintage cat!! rub on it and go! i bet your stoked!! love the period vinyl graphix! the hulls look like they will polish up nice. do the sails have color in them? fix only what it needs and get mega bang for your buck, you can always spend big bucks on a newer one later. man i tell you youre gonna get HOOKED!!

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bill harris
hattiesburg, mississippi
prindle 16- "BLUE RIBBON"
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