I'm converting my 5.7 to roller furling. I plan on using the Harken Small Boat system 435 (hi-load). I was going to buy one listed on this site, but that one turned out to be the lower rated system, max WL 500 lbs.
FYI after talking to a tech engineer at Harken I was told the only difference between the two is the bearings. The Lo-Load uses Delrin, the Hi-Load uses Torlon balls. He said the bearings were about 75 cents each, & they would do the conversion for "about $75. I don't know what it cost from a retailer to get the bearing kit, I haven't seen them advertised anywhere, but I'm sure you could do it yourself, although he recommended against disassembling them yourself. Andrew, I think you did yours, where/how much were the Torlon bearings?
The Harken site lists the unit as using 5/32" line, but not how much you need. With a NACRA 5.7 jib is there any danger that the drum will fill up with line before a the jib is fully furled, or do you just downsize the line, & use a rope ball so as to be able to get a grip on it?
Do you measure the foot of the sail, plus the distance from the drum to where you would cleat it off?



edited by: Edchris177, Mar 03, 2010 - 07:59 AM

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Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
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yes i did mine myself. it was not hard at all. there is a ring on the top that comes off and the entire system comes apart. I suggest you do it on a frizbee or dish so the balls don't scatter. I beleive there were 40? perhaps 50?.

i think the balls cost me about $15. i think i got them from SAILING SERVICES INC 305-7581074 FL

i really don't think there is a NEED to upgrade (to turlon)... i dont know of anyone who has had problems with the low load. the reason i upgraded was my furler was not working 100%. it felt like it was sticking (or was full of sand). my friend had recently re-done his bearings and suggested i do the same. he also said for a few dollars more, why not get the turlon... i agreed... but still probably not needed.

when i did open up my furler and inspected the bearings.. many were worn... new bearings did the job!

Line: yes there is a possibility for you to over fill the drum with line to the point it's "stuffed" (and wont turn anymore) but with the correct size line i doubt it will happen. I personally am using 3mm dingy control line (robline, dynema core with a braided jacket). I like how strong the line is, and the jacket has great "hold" in my cleat. you do NOT want your jib slipping out when its blowing 40!

5/32 is the max line size and is tough to get trough the hole. I have downsized to 2.8mm Spyderline, and use 10 feet on my F-18.

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Ron
Nacra F18
Reservoir Sailing Assn.
Brandon, Mississippi
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Thanks guys, I think I will go with 3mm.

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

Andrew, thanks for that info. I bought the used set here,(for a fair price, not the list, he is a nice guy)& called the FL shop you mentioned. They put 92 of the Torlon (and THAT is the correct spelling Andrew! )balls in the mail for me, 45 for each end, plus 2 extras in case I drop one. The Harken engineer told me the 2 units are identical, except for the bearings, the delrin can't take the compression loads, & the balls deform, as you found out. He claimed if enough balls deform to a great enough degree, the pieces could come apart, leading to a demasting.
I think if you changed them out every few years you would be OK. From Harken the Delrin is 1/5 the cost of Torlon, $2 a bag vs $10. If anyone is interested the Harken part #s are 176 & 177. If you go to the Harken online catalog, you can just type those #s in under search. Sailing Svs sold me the Torlon for quite a bit less than what Harken lists them for.



edited by: Edchris177, Mar 05, 2010 - 11:07 AM

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Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

great data. glad to help

so u are going to change out the top part as well?
i probably should do that one too.

PS i was told spelling doesn't count..

I thought it was the top part you changed. Good to know that the bottom also comes apart easily.
I thought I might as well change them both at the same time, & only incur shipping costs once. That will upgrade the entire system to the Hi-Load specs. It sounds like the Lo-Load has not come apart for anyone, but for the extra $20 I went with Torlon, & won't have to change them out after a couple of years. Mine would probably last longer as I don't have salt crystals or very much sand to contend with.

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

Update on those part#. I was given wrong intel, DO NOT order part 176 or 177. Those are 1/4" bearings, way to big for the small boat furling system.
I measured my old bearings, look like 5/32, (man i wish you guys would go metric!)
I can't edit my old post, I may ask Damon to delete it so it doesn't get copied & pasted, trying to help someone months down the road. When I receive the correct parts, I'll post the part #. The Harken website only shows the lo-load delrin bearings.

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

The line thickness can be real thin if you set it up for 1:2 purchase.
I have this and it works really well.
I run a thin 3mm line on the drum and slipped a tough little bullet block onto it. The end is tied to my bridle tang, but could ideally go somewhere near the furler drum.
The block is attached to a nice thick line for plenty of grip, and that is cleated through a cam cleat on the main beam, where the thin furler line would have gone.
Theoretically this makes me pull twice as hard, but the max grip on the thick line more than makes up for it. Besides I can furl fast in a lull and this makes it easier to furl the whole sail in one pull, with less chance of a pocket forming up the furled leach.
Hope this is of some help!
Dennis
[edited for typo]



edited by: dennisMe, Mar 22, 2010 - 10:46 PM

Thanks, do you have a picture of your setup? I think I saw a setup like this, perhaps that was yours?
My bearings should be here in the next couple of days, then I'll post a write up of the overhaul.

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

I happened to see that west marine (at least the one in clearwater florida) had both delron and torlon bearings in stock. of course they were the wrong size, and they dont even sell furlers....

w.marine is good for beach shoes (when on sale) and that's about it...

west system epoxy is an excellent product...don't throw the baby out with the bathwater!

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Check out "Prindle Sailors" on Facebook!
bill harris
hattiesburg, mississippi
prindle 16- "BLUE RIBBON"
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yes i agree... ok, west marine sells some other valuable products, but very little support for sailing..

PS - the Gougeon Brothers (inventors of the w. system) have a house here in dunedin and i know a couple of the inventors sons... both fun guys, with no desire to do any boating :)

do they "swim in cash"?

--
Check out "Prindle Sailors" on Facebook!
bill harris
hattiesburg, mississippi
prindle 16- "BLUE RIBBON"
--

West System Epoxy and West Marine are not affiliated as far as I know. From reading the above it sounded like an implied connection between the two.

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Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
--

smfinley

West System Epoxy and West Marine are not affiliated as far as I know. From reading the above it sounded like an implied connection between the two.

the only connection is west marine sells west systems...

coastrat

do they "swim in cash"?

haha not as far as i could see. they certainly didn't have "rich kids" attitudes if they were (swimming in cash).

they were adults making their own way when i met them a few years ago. Both nice guys.

1 did move to Michigan a year or so ago to sell epoxy at the company

Quote

West System Epoxy and West Marine are not affiliated as far as I know

They are the largest distributor and retailer of the West System, and also the largest online retailer in existence, and have international sails servicing a world wide market. They are also the wholesaler through the Port Supply wholesale distribution arm. Even the product name was chosen to benefit from the West Marine brand, whose sales exceeded 1/2 billion dollars last year.
. . . but you are correct, they are a privately held company.




edited by: mummp, Mar 25, 2010 - 10:46 AM

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Philip
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http://www.answers.com/topic/west-marine-inc

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Philip
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Quote

They are the largest distributor and retailer of the West System, and also the largest online retailer in existence, and h

They still stink for sailing gear... and i refuse to go there more than 25 times a year :)

Andrew,
I sumtwat agree with you. The only West Marine in my town sells fishing gear for bass boats and knee boards. . . but how ironic, my last purchase at a West Marine store was a product called Formula 27, and get this, it was purchased when I was down for the Alter Cup, the store is in your back yard, in one of the nicest most complete stores I have ever been in. The purchase before that? guess? . . .
.
.
.
West System epoxy resin. (oh my)

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Philip
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I guess you "sometwat" agreeing with me, is as close as i will ever get :)


the one in clearwater on gulf to bay has very friendly, nice employees. i have been in other W.Marines that were much smaller and less friendly. they also have mini-w.marines i think (i drove by one but didnt go in).

one time i had a frozen lug nut they broke free for me.. that only cost me $75 (the genesis of my dislike for them)

and i agree the store actually has a decent selection of boating and trailer goods, but very little selection of lines.

Besides harken blocks and Davis Marine parts and they very limited on parts that we could use.

They are very overpriced (perhaps i am spoiled with other sources)

west marine is the 7-11 of boating...convenience pricing$$$$

--
Check out "Prindle Sailors" on Facebook!
bill harris
hattiesburg, mississippi
prindle 16- "BLUE RIBBON"
--

I have to say that I have been very pleased by the attitudes of the staff at the 2 stores I have been in,(Barrie & Kngston, ON). The gal in Kingston has always gone out of her way to help me, giving me short pieces of line to see what fits best, & calling several competitors to locate an FX03 98" hiking stik.
They don't have a great selection of line, but were certainly willing to order in whatever I wanted, even if it was only 10' of something. Our stores have zero fishing gear, & quite a good selection of general sailing stuff, like custom made rigging, shackles, blocks etc. They are not big on catamaran specific items, but I found the prices competitive on gloves, shoes, general parts, although we tend to pay more up here than you guys do.
For some of the specialty item, ie the Torlon bearings, you just have way more competition in the southern States, hence better prices.
Don't get me wrong, I have been really happy with vendors such as Sailing Services, & Salty Dog, but West Marine has been OK too.

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

West Marine is pretty good about price matching, take in the Defender catalog or a print out a webpage from some other company.
Their return policy is stellar.
They also gave me a toolkit for signing up for their West Advantage program.
Watch the sales, take advantage.
Regular prices are a huge con for WM, but their are some pros too. You need to work the system.

i love going to west just to paw the merchandise, i'm old school about stuff. its a sailors walmart for us because there isn't much competion on the mississippi gulf coast. i'll say it again, west system epoxy is the bomb. i like using the coiloidal(sp) sillica with it, that stuff is bullet proof and tools beautiful!

--
Check out "Prindle Sailors" on Facebook!
bill harris
hattiesburg, mississippi
prindle 16- "BLUE RIBBON"
--

Edchris177

I'm converting my 5.7 to roller furling. I plan on using the Harken Small Boat system 435 (hi-load).

That seems mighty fancy to add new to a 5.7. See if you can pick up a used H18 furler and a swivel. My H18, H20, and F18 furlers were pretty much a drum and a swivel up top. I used 1/12" flag halyard on all of them except the F18. It was smaller with a spectra core.

I bought a used H434 system, & changed top & bottom bearings to Torlon, making it an H435 system. Total cost was under $150 bucks, that's essentially what a new FX03 hiking stik costs! I posted a writeup in the Tech Help section of changing the bearings.
I will be doing a bit of solo sailing, if the conversion saves me grief once it's worth it.
I understood the Hobie systems didn't have the same fittings, the Harken was available, & the system fits better.

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--