I have a bulkhead with a 2 to 3 foot drop off to the beach/water (depending on the tide) and am trying to come up with a plan for getting my NACRA 5.2 up and down it. My idea right now is to build a track for each hull, using 2x4s, 2x8s and carpeting. Then I may need some type of winch, depending on the way it works.

Does anyone have experience in these situations? either used or built a catamaran ramp? or ideas?

Thanks,
Greg (Kent Island, MD)



edited by: gregjenx, Mar 22, 2010 - 07:13 AM

I would recommend using PVC pipe as the contact surface. I think it would be lower friction then the carpet, especially once the carpet gets wet. You could build a wood ramp for each hull and then put a PVC pipe across the ramp every foot or two. The hulls should slide easily across the PVC.

With 4 guys we were able to lift H18M's up and down a 4" drop off, without ramps. Not something I would want to do every time I went sailing, but can be done. You are probably trying to do solo or with two people right?

--
Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
--

I'll be sailing Solo or with one other person.

I definitely like the idea of PVC - and get what you say about the carpet getting wet. I'm sure I could manage to get the boat flat on the ramp before pulling/cranking the boat up so it doesn't bang into the PVC.

How would you attach the PVC? what size PVC? If I used small PVC I could drill holes in the side channels (2x4s or maybe 2x6s) and slide the pieces through. Or would I somehow attach larger PVC slices into half circles and attach some way?

do you own the property you will be adding a ramp to?

do you plan to use a regular hand crank winch?

I own the property and the bulkhead. It sits on the Eastern Bay which is about 6 miles wide, so it can get rough and would destroy anything left in the water. The bulkhead is rather old, and may only have another year left in it - so I hesitate to build anything to serious or even try to bolt anything into it. I'm thinking I'll use brackets that simply slide down on each side of the bulkhead to keep the ramps in place.

As for a winch my only solution I've come up with is to pour some cement around a sleeve. Then I'll drop a pipe into it, with a winch attached, maybe even just one of those winches used when cutting down trees. Seems like I'd want the top of the pipe as high as possible so I'm pulling at a good angle (lifting).

I have seen PVC used directly on the ground, never on a wood ramp, so securing might be interesting. I have seen where people basically make a PVC ladder where they run PVC down both sides and then have rungs go across. Attaching the rungs to the sides using T fittings. Probably a wood siderail, like you mentioned, that you could pass the PVC through would work well. Maybe a fairly tight fitting hole and a screw or two on each end holding the PVC in place, that way when one piece of PVC breaks it is easy to replace.

I would find thick walled PVC, maybe 1" diameter? You could also carpet low on the ramp at the water line, if you are afraid of your boat banging the ramp, and then have the PVC start above typical high tide. Larger diameter PVC cut in half would work well, but I think cutting it would be way more work then the benefit.

--
Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
--

I asked if you owned the property because even though this may be a portable system, i would guess it will weigh as much as your cat.

since you own the property.. it is much more "feasible".

we have a hobie getway on some type of retractable ramp here in st Josephs sound. i have no idea how it works (and its not in a place i can get to by land to see or take pics) but basically the cat and ramp angle up and retract out of the water.. the cat sits there year round.. just waiting to slide back in..

i would be very curious to see what you end up with...

What about a couple conveyor tracks?

Like this stuff, there are a number of vendors that sell surplus equipment...

http://www.materialflow.com/global/images/part_class_images/thumbs/t2.5-inch-gravity-roller-conveyor4070-14213.jpg

Conveyor tracks would be cool because I wouldn't have to build anything. The only issue would be finding them long and light enough so I could pick them up and store away.

you could make that with wooden dowels that are drilled and set (Glued and srewed) into 2x4's every 6-12 inches. Make the dowels maybe 3/4 in then cut a piece of 1" pvc just big ought to fit over the dowel and short enough to fit between the 2x4's.

So drill and set one side then put on the PVC sleeves then drill and set the other side. Though I recommend maybe doing the first half then sealing and painting the entire thing in something that will make it weather a little better then put your pvc on and attached the other Side.

Or if you know anyone who can weld aluminum you could make a similar thing out of aluminum. It would last better and handle the wet.

--
Dustin Finlinson • Magna, UT
Member: Utah Sailing Association
1982 Prindle 18
1986 Hobie 17
1982 Prindle 16
1980 Prindle 16(mostly)
1976 Prindle 16(mostly)
Check out "Prindle Sailors" on Facebook.
--

Wooden dowels - now that goes beyond my pay grade. I can see that making it move even easier. I do like the idea of painting it though. Maybe I can just hit it with some teak oil.

Quote

Conveyor tracks would be cool because I wouldn't have to build anything. The only issue would be finding them long and light enough so I could pick them up and store away.

You could move the conveyor back on forth on your beach wheels.

i look forward to see what turns out in the end



edited by: andrewscott, Mar 22, 2010 - 07:30 PM

Does it have to be a ramp? Why not a lift. A pole block setup would be fairly easy and it is not dependent on the seawall condition.

I'll take a picture of what I have now and upload it. Then another when the job is complete.

A lift might be an affordable, easy to implement option. Does it need a really long pole in order for it to swivel around? Are they easy to take down? I want to keep the waterfront as natural as possible.

I'll see what I can find.

You could use an A frame with a block to lift the boat then just lean the A frame over the water using another block anchored to the ground. Or build something that looks very nautical like the pole lifts that used to be on the old warfs.

I'm trying to find an example using Google images but not having much luck. Do you mind sharing a link to an image showing the concept you have in mind? I think I know what you mean regarding the old wharf lifts with a 90 degree angles arm, but finding an example would definitely help as well. I just bought the house and we're doing old brick walkways, etc. so something like you're talking could be quite cool.






edited by: gregjenx, Mar 23, 2010 - 10:12 AM

the basic crane design(lift, swing, lower) Fig 1. or the barge crane(fig 3) would work. I thing fig 3 would be a easier because you could support the top of the fixed pole with guide wires.

Using a lift with a mast takes some careful planning to make sure the boat is balanced and the mast does not hit the boom. I have a friend with a Corsair and he uses a lift. Looks like a ballet performance everytime he puts it or takes it out of the water. I would not want to connect to a lift in rough water conditions with the mast bouncing around.

--
Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
--

The ideal method is to build a three way harness that you always connect to the same places on the boat(or just leave it connected).

Three feet? I'm thinking something that looks like a large teeter-totter with a nice counter-weight to make the tip effortless, and a winch to make hauling out easy. (Oh, wait. Maybe that's just a trailer with a couple of shop ramps to back up on to.)

Avoid PVC for anything that's going to be out in the sun.

Also, depending on how long the run is, it's usually easier to make a "sled" than a conveyor. A few dolly parts from Harbor Freight, or even a couple of old skateboards running in a track made from 2x6's would do the trick.

Thanks for all the advice. I've been thinking the simplest solution would be a couple of tracks made from 2x6's would do the trick. I've been concerned about using any type of rollers in order to avoid doing damage to the hulls - too much pressure in a single spot.




Now I'm trying to figure out a pulley system. About 30 feet from the bulkhead I have a foot wide tree (right side of photo). I've been thinking I could use it to attach a winch or something. Now I'm trying to figure out what type of pulley and how to attach it.

Could a block and tackle give me the leverage I need to just get it over the bulkhead?

I have nearly the same conditions you do, & am rigging a system for my NAcra 5.7.
I would not use the conveyor rollers, they will rust to crap in a few weeks.
I'm thinking of either a small lift designed for a Seadoo, with some wide beams added to the base for stability, or a ramps system. A lightweight marine railway would work well. You leave most of the railway in the water year round. A small cart sits on the tracks, you slde the cat onto the cart, secure with a few straps, then winch the cart up the rails onto the lawn. These systems are very common, sliding larger boats up intoa boathouse. They could be built very lightweight for a beachcat.
As for a winch, don't bother with block/tackle or come along, they are just to slow. Buy a hand winch as used on the trailer of a normal powerboat, yoiu won't need a huge one for the Cat. They are pretty cheap, probably can get a used one for a case of beer at a boatyard that has old junked boats/trailers. That tree is plenty strong.
IF you build ramps from 2 x 6 in a "V" shape, you could "line" the V with some ABS pipe. Find some plastic sewer pipe, 12" diameter, it is usually green, look for some at new construction sites. I got mine for free, the ends had been damaged by a backhoe & couldn't be used. Cut it into 2 U shaped lengths, they cut very easily with a skil saw. The stuff is pretty thick, I have attached it on other projects with screws, countersunk to avoid damage.
The only downside of leaving the cat on shore is it will kill the grass underneath.

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

Thanks everyone for the suggestions. Based on my unique situation I found a solution for getting my boat over the bulkhead. I'll post pictures soon. I consists of using rollers with high sides I found at a boat trailer shop, a 4-1 pulley system and my beach wheels. Overall it cost less than $200 and working well.

Now my question is should I be connecting to the dolphin striker of my Nacra 5.2 to pull the boat up over the bulkhead, or will this damage the boat? Is there a better location?



edited by: gregjenx, Jul 11, 2010 - 09:08 AM

The dolphin striker is designed for vertical loads. I load my boat onto the trailer by connecting the winch to the dolphin striker rod between the mast and the beam.
I have seen rods that were bent forward if pulled on from below the beam.