So I have sailed some beachcats and am in the market for picking something up. I love flying Hulls, BIG WIND, and anything that makes me feel like I am going to die (even though I am only doing like 20 knots). Over powered boats, while maybe not the fastest, seem to just make me smile.

Our club at school had a modified 14 turbo with a 16 mast, main and 14 jib. I loved it. You could fly a hull without even trying.

So with that I am looking at a 16, 18(sx), and possibly an FX if I save. I would love to find a tornado if I could.

The big question is, which one is the fastest? I weigh 155lbs, and would probably single hand 50% of the time. I like the 16 because of the sail area it has, but am attracted to a larger boat like an 18sx. The FX, well it is just sexy.

Thanks for your opinions on what boat you think I need.

Colin



edited by: buuhh99, Mar 29, 2010 - 10:58 PM

Colin, whatever you get. Do your mum and dad, girlfriend etc, a favor and get one you can right by yourself. I'm 200lbs and can right my Nacra 5.2 solo, but it doesn't fly a hull fast enough for what you describe. A guy at my club with an FX complains about the same problem. Maybe and old A-cat would fit the bill, but I've seen one drift off while not getting righted all the way and splash down after a nasty swirl. That (experienced) guy had to be rescued, at least to save his boat. I was watching from the banks and couln't spot him doing anything wrong in his righting procedure. Uncanny...

14 Turbo would probably fit the bill. Small enough to solo at 150 lbs but big enough sail area to have fun. And they are relatively cheap. Anything bigger and you probably want a crew for righting. An older hobie 17 may work also but the FXone is pretty pricey.

--
Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
--

You won't be able to get a H18 back up solo at your weight, so I would not recommend. If you like pushing the limits make sure you are good at betting it back up for when you go over. I think that will be a big limiting factor on boat selection, and/or you will need to get creative on righting techniques. I would also recommend Dacron sails since they are more durable for when you land on the sail.

--
Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
--

Quote

The big question is, which one is the fastest?

I have no empirical data, but i would GUESS the fastest commercially available cat on the market is an x-40. lucky for you they just came out with a newer, cheaper model x-32.

buuhh99

I love flying Hulls, BIG WIND, and anything that makes me feel like I am going to die (even though I am only doing like 20 knots). Over powered boats, while maybe not the fastest, seem to just make me smile.

buuhh99

The big question is, which one is the fastest?

I think these two things are not the same. The fastest boat may not be the one that gives you the wildest ride. If you are looking for hull flying feeling like you are going to die, that is probably not the same goal as being the fastest, which is usually as controlled as possible for the conditions with a hull barely out of the water (as a general rule).

A H14T or H16 are good for wild rides in big wind conditions, and you can probably get them back upright too and set them up solo also. They are fast enough to be exciting and not so technical to require a lot of extra thinking. Also a lot available for a good price.

--
Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
--

Any sailboat can be a wild ride in enough wind! But I guess you know that.

That H14 with the H16 rig must have been crazy overpowered if it had the H16 sails.

At your weight the H14 or H16 with spin would be hot. If you get the H16 you'll need to learn some righting equipment and technique to be able to right solo which is a must. Safety first please, wear your PFD always when solo. (even better always always) Remember the goal is to FEEL like you are going to die.

You mention from H14 to Tornado, what is your budget? Do you want to race or just cut up? Where will you be sailing most of the time?

Please fill out your profile and you might find some local sailors to help.

--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

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You can soup up a Hobie 14, there are a bunch of lightweight crazies who have created their own "14MX" class by putting square-head mains and spins on Hobie 14's.


--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

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Those are quite the set-ups. I don't know anything about "spin's" on a cat, I would have thought they were gennaker's up front. Googling now, but if anyone has a good link that would be great.

Quote

I would have thought they were gennaker's up front.

you can use spins, genni's, code zero's (combo of spin and genni) etc... but with MODERN designs beach cats ALMOST exclusively we use asymmetrical spins for racing.

http://www.doylesails.com…racing/asymmetrical.html



edited by: andrewscott, Mar 30, 2010 - 03:52 PM

Like Andrew said, the terminology of modern "pole mounted" head sails has a lot of overlap.

Those in the picture I'm pretty sure are furling headsails. More common on beachcats is the spinnaker snuffer systems. But the spinnakers used on cats with snuffers are almost as flat as those shown.

The snuffer bag hangs under the pole and holds the chute ready to launch, no packing.


The snuffer systems get the sail up and trimmed really fast, like magic.


--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

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Thanks for answering the newbie question. I'm purely a recreational sailor, I did a very small amount of racing as crew years ago, but never got the chance to work with spinnakers.

Yeah, the one downside with Cats is that they are a little slow downwind (at least compared with reaching performance). Tripling your sail area with an assymetrical spin makes up for that in a huge way. Code 0's or hooters, like on the H14s above were pretty popular when the spin rigs were less well developed. Now they have fallen a little out of favor but because you can't go as far downwind with them. They are still viable and tend to be a slightly simpler setup once everything is put together (less rigging to deal with on the tramp).

--
Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
--

I have no connection, but it looks like one of the H14T with a hooter is for sail on ebay. Looks like one of the ones from the pictures Damon posted above.

I think that boat would fit your criteria fairly well.

--
Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
--

Thoes are the same cats #420 #99.... I'am surprised he doesn't have any bids on it yet~~~ NO I can't, I already have a 17 & 18...... but havin a 14 like that!!! HHMMMM?

--
~ Vietnam Vet 69-71~ 17 Hobie w/big jib, ~18 Hobie mag,~DN Ice sailor,
and other toys.......
~~ I live in NY state on the north shore of Oneida lake in
Bernhards Bay. ~~~~~~
--

popeyez7

I'am surprised he doesn't have any bids on it yet

I'm just surprised he is trying to sell it on eBay when all the catamaran buyers are here on this site.

--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

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took the ole blue ribbon out on sea trials yesterday in biloxi, 25 kt. winds steady out of east southeast. you didn't need any extra sail for some "crazy sailing". those h 14's look like they would have flown like a kite with the main sail only! the wind picked up as it got later but the freshly painted and newly repaired blue ribbon handled the trials "at full capacity", can't say the same for my buddies p-15, system overload. the skinny people were cold, the big boys were sweating....good times!

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bill harris
hattiesburg, mississippi
prindle 16- "BLUE RIBBON"
--

The H14T has no title, I don't know about other states, but I think that is a deal killer in Illinois unless you have a private lake to sail on.



edited by: kgatesman, Apr 03, 2010 - 01:03 PM

*I will fill out my profile as soon as I get some extra time*

I sail here at Purdue (Indiana), our team is ok, we seem to do pretty poorly at the regattas but we have fun. I would race if there were some local places to do it. My parents and sailing friends are in MN so I would trailer the rig up there when I go to visit and such.

I am graduating in May so depending on where I end up I might be in Indy, Chicago, S. Carolina, or Maybe Denver. I am looking at a 16 right now but I am really digging that 14MX rig. I am going to look in that more.

If I were to get an 18 I would totatlly need another person. I have a friend with an 18sx that I want to convince me to let try. For me it is a decision of weather or not getting a crew to go is worth the extra fun the boat has to offer. I love sailing with people, (I am not a fan of being out there alone) but the lighter weight gives a wilder ride.

How does an FXone handle with another person?

Does an 18 get out of the water like a 16 or can you really feel the extra mass?

I am a self taught sailor so I assume the larger the sail area the more power the boat is going to have. My brain disconnects when I see that the 18 has less sail area than the 16. Why is that?

I will probably get a cheap boat to start, but I am not afraid to purchase something like a Fxone given the right seller, I just worry that for the money I would be better of getting a 16 and rigging it well. A tornado is a dream, but I would probably build my own if I was going to invest that cash. A trifoiler would be cool to..

PURDUE? AS IN DREW BREES, BEST NFL QUARTERBACK, WHO DEFEATED PEYTON MANNING, ELI MANNING, TOM BRADY, BRETT FAVRE, CURT WARNER, ALL IN ONE SEASON! LOVE THAT SCHOOL!

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bill harris
hattiesburg, mississippi
prindle 16- "BLUE RIBBON"
--

Go big or go home. F18HT.

Quote

Does an 18 get out of the water like a 16 or can you really feel the extra mass?

I believe you can feel the extra weight of the H18 when sailing. For me it is easier to keep a hull on a H16 out of the water then it is an 18. Both will come out of the water well but it seems like the 18 is harder to keep up. Could also be my fear of flipping solo on it

I am however very happy I went to the 18 magnum. For me it is all about the wings and the extra space and comfort they provide. Not to mention being trapped out off the wing, which is a great experience, it gets you that extra couple feet in the air other 8' wide cats can not do. Not sure if I personally would take a standard H18 over a H16 if just sailing with up to 2 people.

If you move to Chicago and sail on Lake Michigan be very careful if you plan to sail solo.

--
Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
--

Quote

My brain disconnects when I see that the 18 has less sail area than the 16. Why is that?

Not sure where you got that data, here is the data from the Hobie site (http://www.hobiecat.com/sailing/models_hobie16.html)

H18 Specifications:
Length: 18'
Beam: 8'
Mast Length: 29' 7"
Sail Area: 220 Sq. Ft.
Weight: 450 lbs.


H16
Specifications:
Length: 16' 7"
Beam: 7' 11"
Mast Length: 26' 6"
Sail Area: 218 Sq. Ft.
Weight: 320 lbs.

I have owned both. The 18 is a more modern cat, handles crew/weight better (or at least can handle more) and is a fine boat.

That being said, they both are fun, they both can be wild and exciting in med-heavy air and neither is wrong.

the pros of the 16 are: lighter, millions of parts available, easier to right, and move around the beach and less sail shape tuning controls (makes it easier to learn/use) and handles waves well

Cons: pitchpoles a bit easier (flip forward), smaller trampoline area, less jib/sail shape controls (yes its also a pro)


the pros of the 18 are: more room on-board, points better to wind (and tacks) easier with boards and thats about it.

cons: HEAVY MAST, HEAVY BOAT to move around the beach, harder to right, flat hulls CAN make sailing in waves a lot rougher (some people love that)

IMHO.. i usually suggest people start with a 16 and move up. I PERSONALLY loved both cats.. but the 16 is a bit more WILD, easier to fly a hull,

It looks like the data on the the Hobie site at
http://www.hobiecat.com/sailing/models_18sx.html
is wrong for the 18, I'm not sure if that is actually the 18SX specs (the mast height is SX), if so I didn't know the SX has less sail than the regular 18-18SE-18Magnum.

Class specs for the Hobie 18 are

Quote

Length 18'
Beam 8'
Min. Class Weight 400 lbs.
Draft (Boards Down) 2'6'
Mast Length 28'1'
Total Sail Area 240 sq. ft.
Hull Construction Fiberglass/Foam Sandwich
Designers Hobie Alter & Phil Edwards

http://www.hcana.hobieclass.com/?Page=2178

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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
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Are you sailing solo, or with crew?

I saw you mention the Tornado and can tell you that they are fast. I think that Marstrom 20 Carbon is a little faster and Nacra just introduced a N20 Carbon that is expected to be fast. None of these boats are really geared towards anything but racing.

I sailed a Tornado Classic back in the early 90s and they are not that wild a ride. The beam means that they react predictably even in very heavy air and the high volume hulls prevent pitchpoling unless you are really pushing hard in large wave. The Squaretop Tornado may be a different story, but I doubt it. Tornados are also difficult to right and unless you have a crew member that is much larger than yourself, you will have trouble.

If you really enjoy feeling like your life is about to end, try a skiff. They may not be quite as fast, but the terror factor is definitely there. If you do want to stick to Cats, the true racing cats are probably not your best bet.

I would look for something light that you can move and right by yourself, but don't go so light taht the boat isn't durable. Unfortunately for you, the more modern designs are built for speed and stability.

Quote

It looks like the data on the the Hobie site at
http://www.hobiecat.com/sailing/models_18sx.html
is wrong for the 18

I thought the data seemed odd... my 18 didnt weigh 450 (until i added the beer) and i thought the different models had different sail area.. at least by a few ft

Quote

The Squaretop Tornado may be a different story

square tops don't add much to the craziness factor. they do add some power, but in a blow.. that extra sail area (top) flaps and shakes off air, and self de-powers a bit.

The square top Tornado also added an asymmetrical spin and double trap, but I suspect that you are right Andrew. The Tornado Classic was such a well balanced boat that I would be surprised if the class association allowed any changes that would cause it to be crazy.

andrewscott

I thought the data seemed odd... my 18 didnt weigh 450

450lbs would be pretty heavy for an 18 foot boat. My 5.5 weighs in at 340lbs ready to sail. I think that the sl version with the jib and aluminum mast is only 375 lbs.

rpiper138

450lbs would be pretty heavy for an 18 foot boat. My 5.5 weighs in at 340lbs ready to sail. I think that the sl version with the jib and aluminum mast is only 375 lbs.

my H18 was closer to 420 lbs, but add 20 or more for cooler and gear... (i carry A LOT of saftey gear and spare parts)

My Mystere 5.5 is rated at 415lbs ready to sail.. again add 20 for gear... ok 2 for gear, 18 for rum!~



edited by: andrewscott, Apr 05, 2010 - 05:46 PM

There is a H17 sport for sale on this website also. Again no connection to it, but it is in the Chicago area and a good solo or solo +1 boat. And at the price you could sail it for a while and then decide what your ideal boat would be and not loose much when you sell it.

--
Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
--

It sounds like the boat for you would be the Moth! Look it up, it is a foil concept that can out sail even an A-CAT. That looks like the most thrill you can get sailing. Also consider a windsurfer. If you want out of control feeling and are buy yourself they are fun too.

Here's a Formula 14... try this for crazy sailin. Watch this thing go..... ya got 9 mins
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nrCYTxQDtQ

--
~ Vietnam Vet 69-71~ 17 Hobie w/big jib, ~18 Hobie mag,~DN Ice sailor,
and other toys.......
~~ I live in NY state on the north shore of Oneida lake in
Bernhards Bay. ~~~~~~
--

Quote

Here's a Formula 14... try this for crazy sailin. Watch this thing go..... ya got 9 mins

Its SOOO CUTE!, i think i will call it... Mini-me

i was waiting for 10 clowns to crawl out of a hull

PS they are killing it, but so does my boat in 20 :)

Those Hobie 14s with Hooters were mine. I sold mine, with the 420 number and my friend sold the #99 one to the guy who was selling it on eBay. Don't know the result. Both were pretty cool.

They are Whirlwind mains and Hooters. Chip Buck really hooked me up.

The 14 with the Hooter was a blast. Upwind, you could sail it to about 8mph, then it was too much. In light wind, it would smoke anything. The square top was only good in heavy wind--a Dacron sail was faster in the light stuff. Down wind ANYTIME was holding on for dear life. I would hang off the back of the boat just to keep the bows up. Sometimes, I thought the boat wasn't even touching the water!

The big problem was righting the boat. I can right a 14 Turbo or Uni easily by myself at 165 pounds, but with the hooter--forgetaboutit.

...So, I'm on to a different project. A Supercat 15 with the same hooter as seen above. I sold the 14, but kept the Hooter rig. I wanted the Supercat because it has (what seems like) almost 3 times the volume in the hulls as the Hobie and it has the Supercat righting system. When you pop the shroud adjuster, it practically rights itself. That may fix the Hooter righting problem.

I think, though, if I was to do it again, I would get a Supercat 17 with a Supercat 15 rig on it and then add the Hooter or a spinnaker. Bigger sail plans don't always mean faster. I'm surprised anyone on a 14 with a 16 rig can keep it up right. There just isn't enough buoyancy. I figure that you can do a lot more with a controlable rig on some seriously buoyant hulls.

Just my 2 cents. I'll be posting pics of the Supercat when I get it done. I already have a self tacking jib on it..

Dan

One more thing--as far as a factory little bad ass boat--try a nacra 450. One of those with a Hooter or spin would be AWESOME.

Dan.... ya do have a pair !!! I'd should'ave known one of thoes cats were yours.... way to go

--
~ Vietnam Vet 69-71~ 17 Hobie w/big jib, ~18 Hobie mag,~DN Ice sailor,
and other toys.......
~~ I live in NY state on the north shore of Oneida lake in
Bernhards Bay. ~~~~~~
--

JimTomes

It sounds like the boat for you would be the Moth! Look it up, it is a foil concept that can out sail even an A-CAT. That looks like the most thrill you can get sailing. Also consider a windsurfer. If you want out of control feeling and are buy yourself they are fun too.

There is always kitesurfing. I hear that the learning curve is pretty steep, but it would definitely be a good adrenaline rush. To get any more intense than that you probably have to go to hard drugs.

The foiling moths are very fast. Watch the last 1/2 of this where he switches to a rig mounted camera, the stinkpot is really hauling ass trying to keep up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QH9iXgh3fpA&feature=related

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

Put that on my bucket list!!

--
Bonnie

Nacra SL 16
Hobie Wave
--

Moths look amazingly fun (but hard to get out of the water on the foil).

world cat sailing pro John Casey recently tried one and wrote about it on his site. I asked him if he wanted to buy one and his answer was "HELL YEA!"

http://www.johncaseyworldwide.com/?paged=2



I think the 3 man 18' foiling skiffs would be amazing (and easier to get out of the water)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQbECYuCzWs

and for you surfers

http://www.youtube.com/wa…WMusaDTI&feature=related

Thanks for the help guys! I have alot of friends that kite surf, one of my friend's dads runs the slingshot factory in china, needless to say I could get one cheap if I wanted.

I am going to do some more researching, I will probablly find a local deal and pick up either a 16/17 or nacra equivalent. the F14 looks fun but I don't know how many race ready boats are in the area. Either way once I have one I am sure I will do something to it to make it crazy, maybe try to fit some wildcat mast + sails on there or something...

there is a huge difference between the Hobie16 and 17... i would think a 16 is more flexible* for all around sailing (in varied conditions) and would possibly be faster getting up to speed on (literal and figuratively).

Also if your gonna be pushing it.. your gonna be flipin it (no big deal) but a 16 is a lot easier to right than the 17 with wings.

* i see h16's flyin a hull high and far all the time, i dont see that on 17's. I see 16's out there jumping wave's (not the hobiewave) all the time, i see 17's avoiding waves (as i did on my 18 with similar hull shapes)

Andrew, I agree with your last entry. I consider myself still a newbie, and appreciate all the help and advice the group at Dunedin have offered. I am still listening and learning, though I have sailed monohulls for almost 30 years, the cats are totally different. Therefore speaking as a newbie to Colin. I started with a Hobie 17, and then bought a Hobie 16 for my fiancee to learn on. The 16 is hugely easier to sail than the 17. Don't get me wrong, I love my 17, but the 16 is easier to bring about, easier to get out of irons, and yes it is easier to fly a hull with. As far as waves, the tramp of the 17 is only half as far out of the water as the 16 tramp. (a lot more clearance for waves!) Also the 16 can carry more weight than the 17. If the choice comes down to the 16 or 17, I think Colin would be happier with the 16.



edited by: Deuce, Jun 02, 2010 - 08:59 PM

Quote

Andrew, I agree with your last entry.

then you are a wise man! (just kidding)

OK, have to reply here. Been out of pocket and out of the country for awhile. I will fillout my profile - I promise.
I am the nut that both sold the "99" number H14 with the squaretop sail and hooter on ebay - went for a fair dollar too, and tried to sell it here last year but I think I was out of season.
The hobie 14 with the square top and hooter was a rocket and scary fast. I also have moved to a supercat 15, and really love the predictability and the ease of righting.
I also had a %$#@& of a time getting the h14 righted when flying a hooter.
Just finished getting the hulls on the supercat gelcoated, and am working on a new tramp - slosails has been great
Anyone have any knowledge or roller furling setups and sources for the supercat 15?

OK, I'm selling the Hooter kit for the 14s as shown above--see the classifieds.

Harry--you're doing exactly what I did! I have a Supercat 15 now and I'm really liking it, but I'm having touble putting the Hooter kit on it because of the way the self-tacker is positioned on the boat. I'm going to go to a spin kit.

Hit me off line at (danberger at mindspring dot com) for SC15 tips. I have a roller furling jib for the boat and can show you the furling parts with measurements.

Sorry I havent posted here in a while. Ended up not buying a boat due to the new york winter and lack of good boats, but I just got a new Job in Houston. Looking forward to the big wind down there.

Some one mentioned the F18HT class, what boats fit into that class?

If you are Houstin, get an F18. That's the strongest class of crazy boats around here :)

F18s are AWSOME some of the boats tha fit into that category are:

Hobie
Tiger
Wildcat

Nacra
Inter 18
F18
Infusion

Australian High Performance Catamarans (AHPC)
Taipan F18
Capricorn
C2

Bimare
X4

There are other manufacterers but those are the ones you are likely to come across.

D.

--
Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
--

Ok I was almost totally set on a 16' hobie. However, who is rocking it down there in houston (local Cat club)? What is the gulf like? I lived there for 11 years as a kid and remember it to be windy. I am thinking I might need the 18 to just keep up with the waves.

I want a 16 to get out of the water. But if someone can convince me the 18 is faster it will be a done deal.

The Bimare boats look awesome. I think they would be wiked fast.

Texas City Dike Yacht Club (the place, not the person :) http://www.tcdyc.com/

That's the place to meet Houston cat sailors....

I sail in the gulf almost every weekend in Houston area there are 3 spots to sail as mentioned above TCDYC is the place to meet everyone. There are 3 spots to sail Texas City Dike, Cat alley, Surfside aka 10 Mile. TCDYC is hosting a learn to sail clinic on April 9th at the dike details on there website. Surfside Sailing is having a launch party April 16 just go to surfside beach access #6 details are on www.hobiefleet33.com or Surfside Sailing on facebook and there is also Cat alley over in Galveston which is on Bermuda beach.

buuhh99

I want a 16 to get out of the water. But if someone can convince me the 18 is faster it will be a done deal.

The Bimare boats look awesome. I think they would be wiked fast.

Come to one of the events and sail some diffrent boats before you buy anything take it from me I have owned 5 boats in 2 years and I am burned out on swapping boats, trailers, sailtubes, tires etc... Find the boat you know you want before you buy anything!!
I want to sail someones Tiger myself seems like the prices are coming down and I am a fan of Hobies rudder system for the surf they have worked the best for me.



Edited by fa1321 on Mar 30, 2011 - 08:47 AM.