HELP!!!! I am (or was) the champion of our small club. Now my husband is beating me, and I am relegated to second place, usually. This can't go on.

Here's what usually happens. On the upwind leg, we're usually neck and neck around the first mark. He does better on the stbd tack on his Hobie 16, and I do better on the port tack on my Dart 18 (we race the two classes together, as our fleet is only 12 boats)!

On the run, he hauls a$$. I've tried running - the shortest route. I've tried a broad reach - the fastest and funnest route. I've tried kissing the wind (a mixture of both - speeding up on a reach, heading downwind to surf when I have some speed). It's not working.

Please, have you got tips for me???

Kate

It could be sail settings

There is a sweat spot running down wind where the boat will "hook up" and just takes off down wind. Very hard to find but I have been with some H16 A fleeters that can find it consistently.

Typically you see people running about 45 degrees downwind, shortest distance (straight downwind) is not the fastest in a cat when going downwind.

--
Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
--

HULLFLYER

It could be sail settings

That had occurred to me, once or twice!!! Which is why I am appealing to this forum's wealth of knowledge to give me any tips about how I could set them in order to make me go faster

Have you read any of the catamaran sailing/racing books that have been published? Rick White wrote at least one and there are some others out there as well.

--
Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
--

Do you have barber haulers on your jib so that you open up the slot a lot more on the downwind reach? Jib should be sheeted loosely. Also install a bridle fly on your bridle ($15)and sail with fly perpendicular to hulls. When boat seems to head away from the goal (mark), then jibe. This way you are following the shifts correctly--and always reach, never run. And get your weight way forward so that transoms are out of the water leaving no wake. Pete

pbegle

Do you have barber haulers on your jib so that you open up the slot a lot more on the downwind reach? Jib should be sheeted loosely. Also install a bridle fly on your bridle ($15)and sail with fly perpendicular to hulls. Pete

Thank you, Pete, this is more along the lines of what I was looking for.....

1 - No, I don't have a barber hauler. What I tend to do in light breezes is unhook the jib sheet and tie on the loose end of my jib halyard (other end tied off, of course); since the weight of the clip interferes with jib's freedom to fly.

2 - By fly sheet, do you mean a tell tale attached to the bridle? If so, then yes, I've been doing this. (Although I just use a strip of old spinaker, not a fancy $15 one!!)

3 - I hadn't thought of the weight forward thing - will give it a go next week.

Thankyou for these gems!!

1st up i like see couples neck and neck

on sail shape downwind you are looking for fat

so loosen the downhaul on your main and if possible the jib halyard

loosen the outhaul and mast rotation

try to get forward and lift your sterns out

and last but not least

ask your husband for advice in how to beat him

catamaran racing for the 90's

When I read the first sentence I thought your club numbered 2, & you were just trying to beat hubby! Your lucky to have a decent fleet to sail with.
I've always heard that the fastest sailors were racers, because they are never happy with the status quo. Q & A such as this, & books are about my only means to get faster. There are no other Nacras close to me, even though our lake is nearly 400 sq miles.
I ran into a Hobie 16 yesterday, & pulled up beside him to ask a few questions,(being a newbie at the Cat thing). He said he'd been at it a few years, & gave me a few pointers on the run. He had both sails going, & was out on the wire in 20 clicks (12 mph). I was surprised at how easy I could keep up with only the main up. I had to loosen the sheet considerably for him to keep up, & with just one arm pull of the main sheet could pull away.
He commented on what great boat I had,('84 Nacra 5.7)& wanted to sail together again. So we now have a fleet of 2! I know there is one other Hobie 16 around the corner that some young guns sail, so it will be fun to sail together. I'm sure I can learn a thing or two about going faster from these guys.




edited by: Edchris177, Jun 20, 2010 - 10:30 AM

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

erice

1st up i like see couples neck and neck

on sail shape downwind you are looking for fat

so loosen the downhaul on your main and if possible the jib halyard

loosen the outhaul and mast rotation

Thank you - I had forgotten about the downhaul on the main. Not possible to loosen jib halyard on Dart, as it's hooked on at top!

erice

ask your husband for advice in how to beat him

Err.... Not gonna happen (the asking advice bit, that is. I will beat him again.




edited by: CatKat, Jun 20, 2010 - 02:42 PM

Thank you to everyone who has shared their tips - it's not easy to get sailing books out here when there are only about 30 sailing boats in the country; and my internet searches haven't been very fruitful. The tips are much appreciated - I can't wait to leap back into the lead!!!

If anyone knows of good sites with sail-trimming tips, they'd be appreciated as well!

Hi CatKat, I sail in Jakarta, and have a similar lack of sailing local knowledge. I read this thread with interest.

CatKat

it's not easy to get sailing books out here when there are only about 30 sailing boats in the country; and my internet searches haven't been very fruitful.

same here in central japan

so i bought a 2nd hand, hard back copy of rick white's "catamaran racing" from amazon for $5

and liked it so much i splurged on a 2nd copy of his later book, "catamaran racing for the 90's"

the older book has lots of photos but the newer book has more and updated information

i recently bought a new uk book with LOTS of glorious color pics, but it hasn't taught my half as much as the older books

1 good thing about the older books is that they are specifically written for the older beachcats

http://www.amazon.com/Catamaran-Racing-90s-Rick-White/dp/1880871009

for a dart you may want this book written by a dart world champ

http://www.amazon.com/Catamaran-Racing-Kim-Furniss/dp/0906754909

if you are too cheap for even a 2nd hand book you can download the "hobie university" pdf for free from many places

at about 20 pages it is VERY basic but has a nice polar diagram

you can order rick whites books and videos at rick whites website catsailor.com

increase your speed with apparent wind. this is typically achieved by turning slightly upwind.. and building speed and then turning downwind and utilizing that speed. continue this over the entire downwind leg (head up, grab a "bite of air" and then gently turn downwind and "USE" that wind.. .if done correctly, you can gain speed and even go faster than the wind (usually on more of a beam reach than dead down wind). another trick that works on darts .. if you lose your apparent wind... you can gently sheet out the main and the jib and gently (slowly) sheet them back into position.

If you don't have tell-tales and leach tails.. get em. sail by them. if your leach tails aren't flying backwards, your over sheeted... (and losing efficiency)

also if you feel brave... youshould be doing the wild thing downwind (this is sitting on the low/lee hull). this makes steering very tricky (many use their feet on the rear crossbar) but the goal is to get the windward hull out of the water, reducing drag... but be careful... :)

as mentioned above weight placement is critical.. you should be hugging your mast (from the low side) but if your not comfortable doing the wild thing... hug the mast and keep your lower body on the low side...

lastly, its pretty hard to compare a H16 and dart18. very different boats that will have different "sweet spots" (the h16 should kill you downwind and you should be able to beat up on it up wind (in med-heavy air). in light air, the dart will suffer..

CatKat

He does better on the stbd tack on his Hobie 16, and I do better on the port tack on my Dart 18

Kate, are you and hubby both sailing solo? Are you sailing the Dart with two sails or as a Uni?

First the Hobie 16 does have a faster rating that the Dart 18 and quite a bit faster than the Dart 18 Uni.

rating d-pn/0-3mph/4-12mph/13-17mph
Hobie 16 -- 76/81.5/78.7/74.1
Dart 18 Sloop 2-up -- 76.3/81.3/79.7/76.6
Dart 18 Uni 1-up -- 78.7/84/82.2/78.6

So if you both sail your boats to their potential the Hobie 16 should always beat you across the line or around the course.

In the real world there are a million variables. I can tell you that a very well sailed Hobie 16 can be nearly unbeatable downwind in light air because they can do some crazy shenanigans with weight distribution that enables the boat to sails with hardly any hull in the water (due to the banana shaped hulls) and angle nearly dead down wind, which is hard to make up for until the wind picks up enough to make your jibing angles pay off.

DO NOT try to follow a H16 straight downwind on a boat that needs to jibe.

--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

How To Create Your Signature

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How To Display Pictures In The Forums.
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erice = Japan
kingwilly = Jakarta
CatKat = Kuwait

Quite an international thread we have going! I'm loving it, beachcats worldwide. Every month in the site stats I see that over 130 countries visit TheBeachcats.com and I always wonder what their local sailing is like.

So please could all of you add an album to the "Beachcats Groups" album with pictures of your local sailing area?http://www.thebeachcats.…pictures&g2_itemId=12376

Thanks,

--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

How To Create Your Signature

How To Create Your Own Cool Avatar

How To Display Pictures In The Forums.
--

Will get some pictures now that I'm actually sailing.
And don't forget there are a few of us Canada guys who sail during the soft water season! You have not annexed us, yet Remember we sent those Yankees packing in 1812.

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

Yep, I've started uploading also. Although my pics in Canada look suspicously similar to the ones from the Northern States... You can't really tell how far from civilization we are from the pics. :) The Japan cat sailing videos on youtube are pretty awesome! I would love to see some pics of sailing in Kuwait (probably similar to California in a lot of ways)!!

Unfortunately at some point since 1812 and burning the original Whitehouse we became domesticated and named our dollar the Looney. Not sure how anyone can take us seriously now.

--
Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
--

can't say we were much help to those yankees in 1812, but in 1814, ole andy jackson and his ragtag group of pirates, indians, and rednecks stomped much british azz over in chalmette, louisiana...guess bp is paying us back, with interest!

--
Check out "Prindle Sailors" on Facebook!
bill harris
hattiesburg, mississippi
prindle 16- "BLUE RIBBON"
--

We really shouldn't have burned down their Whitehouse, though I see they've rebuilt it. I went to D.C., it looks very nice. Now, if only we could get them to brew real beer. With all the German,Austrian,Dutch & especially Irish heritage, I don't know how they got saddled with the likes of Bud, Coors & most of the other dishwater that sells as beer.
You're right about those Brits Coastrat, they are a pompous bunch. Even us Irish dislike them, & we like everybody, especially if their Dads own pubs! About the only positive is that their winning the war made North America use the English language. It is a bitch to learn as a foreign tongue, as most of the rest of the world now knows.

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

budweiser is about 20% rice!

P.B.R....the "kind bud" of beers!!!

--
Check out "Prindle Sailors" on Facebook!
bill harris
hattiesburg, mississippi
prindle 16- "BLUE RIBBON"
--

~~ This has been an interesting post ~~ It went from sailin downwind, to drinkin beer. OK, now we all know sailin is fun no matter what direction yer going, or if it's salt water or fresh water and what country yer sailin out of or a US state for that matter..... Here's something I'd like to know. Who drinks "good" beer~~ like dark,strong,bitter,bold,full of flavor beers~~(me) ..... or the watered down, dishwatered,rice,pantherpiss,puke beers ??


--
~ Vietnam Vet 69-71~ 17 Hobie w/big jib, ~18 Hobie mag,~DN Ice sailor,
and other toys.......
~~ I live in NY state on the north shore of Oneida lake in
Bernhards Bay. ~~~~~~
--

IPA all day.

--
Rob
OKC
Pile of Nacra parts..
--

don't forget the war of 1812...beer probably played a HUGE role in that one too!!! when i switched to p.b.r. after a long career of light beer, i got fat, real bad, especially when the kegerator came into play! i'm afraid if my beers had any more calories(156) i would explode...i think there is a corraltion with heat and humidity to light beer. south mississippi is AFRICA hot! now winters are sweet, fall and spring awesome! summers, seems hotter each year. come to think of it, mayby i should slow up on the bar-b-Q...naw...

--
Check out "Prindle Sailors" on Facebook!
bill harris
hattiesburg, mississippi
prindle 16- "BLUE RIBBON"
--

In order to sail downwind at the optimum speed, the sailer must remove any excess weight the cat has on it, this includes beer and Bar-B-Q. This is were one's priorities come into play: to win a race (especially over a spouse) or to enjoy the cornicopia of pleasures that sailing has to ofter, i.e. open air, speed, and delights. The competative nature of the spoucal relationship can cause tension. Tension in the relationship can be very benefical is releived in an appropraite and mutually benifitial way.

To the original post, CatKat, I recommend allowing your husband to win, bring your favorite adult beverages on board at all times, and treat him to some trampoline time. Winning isn't everything. But peace, love, and tranquility should be.


--
Hank, Hattiesburg, Mississippi, P16 - "Sideways"
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Quote

To the original post, CatKat, I recommend allowing your husband to win, bring your favorite adult beverages on board at all times, and treat him to some trampoline time. Winning isn't everything. But peace, love, and tranquility should be.

OR.... spend a few hours prior race with him, do many shots (you drink water, he drink "other") and after that you could sail backwards and win!

wining isn't everything, but everything else is losing

Have you tried swapping boats every second race?

HaHa Andrew. As My daughter used to say when she was an upper level downhill ski racer, & came in 4th at an Allstar race. daughter "This just sucks"
Coach "You should be proud, you came in fourth in a field comprising the best racer from each club"
daughter "fourth just means I'm the first of the losers"

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

popeyez7

Here's something I'd like to know. Who drinks "good" beer~~ like dark,strong,bitter,bold,full of flavor beers~~(me) ..... or the watered down, dishwatered,rice,pantherpiss,puke beers ??

I have found that most folks around me are willing to drink whatever flavor panther piss is in my cooler, mainly because it is:
1) ice cold, and
2) free.

carry on . . .

--
Philip
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additionally, I currently have Michelob Ultra in my keg machine at the house.

--
Philip
--

I'm not a fan of most of your USA beer, but I gotta admit Philip that "free" card tends to trump many of the German imports. What did you say your address was?

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

through exhaustive research we have found that the boat is only capable of hauling 4.5 hours worth of beer. considering making hulls into ice chest...boat will carry more liquer than is safe though...

--
Check out "Prindle Sailors" on Facebook!
bill harris
hattiesburg, mississippi
prindle 16- "BLUE RIBBON"
--

i would rather drink urine than cheap beer..
i drink neither!

ps my cat only sails under rum power.. (usually in circles)

Backasswards - I agree with your philosophy of peace love and harmony - but in the bedroom, not on the race course. Everything has it's own place in life, and loving does not belong in the races.

Damon admin - interesting point about Hobies being rated faster. How would that translate into a handicap for mixed class racing?? This may well be the key to me returning to my rightful place at the top....

Coast Rat / Backasswards - the thing about excess weight of course is also essential factor - I encouraged my last crew lose 15kg (said I wouldn't let him race with me otherwise) - which he promptly did!!

BEER??? In Kuwait??? Not gonna happen, sadly!! Although I did once trapeze on a 80km coastal journey with a beer in my hand for most of the way, courtesy of an employee of the German Embassy!

come to think of it, if i were to sail in Kuwait, that would be like 47,561 less calories per trip than the current intake(i live in a high calorie environment). no wonder your crew "slimmed" up so fast!...

--
Check out "Prindle Sailors" on Facebook!
bill harris
hattiesburg, mississippi
prindle 16- "BLUE RIBBON"
--

here are the portsmouth ratings. There is a bunch of info on how it works, the "multihulls" section will have ratings for each boat, though some may show up in the "inactive"
Basically a lower number means a faster boat. The system allows different boats to compete on a level field, so theoretically the better skipper wins, not the guy/gal with the faster design. It would be very useful in your case, where everyone may have a different type.
You'll have to figure out how to use it, I've never raced, so can't help you. The Dart 18 shows as a slower boat than the Hobie 16, so he gets a handicap. Just because he crosses the line ahead of you, doesn't mean he wins.
http://www.ussailing.org/portsmouth/pyindex.asp



edited by: Edchris177, Jul 02, 2010 - 04:53 AM

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

Portsmith rankings is a good gauge but has pros and cons

PS racing is designed for around the marks.. not really for distance. (our local club does PS distance races all the time, and causes lots of "discussion")

Thanks for that. I'm familiar with how to use a handicap system, since we use it in the Yacht Club! I'll try to introduce it - and since the Darts outnumber the Hobies, I'm hopeful we'll get the vote!!

Now then, I found a fantastic Word file on the internet, written by Dart 18 pioneers. It is full of advice about trim, and crew tips etc... although it is written for Darts, it is just as useful for Hobies and probably any other catamaran... check it out...
www.dart18.com/Docs/TechTalk/UKIDA%20Technical%20manual.doc

Thank you folks, there has been some great chat generated (once some of you got past the beer obsession) - and the handicap idea has been voted in. Mostly so that we can include the lasers, laser 2s and a wanderer in the racing as well.

Not sure if it'll make a lot of difference to my dilemma tho, since the difference is only a few seconds in an hours racing! But the tips have helped, thank you.

Hey CatKat, have you raced again?? How did it go? Did you take down hubby? Post some pics of the Kuwait Sailing Club in action. We'd like to see.

--
David
Memphis, TN
'84 Hobie 18
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