i searched and found a couple of threads talking about big guys and beach cats. however, i am asking for some specific expert advice to point me towards the right boat or two to search for and help me narrow my search.

i am 41 and an old blue water sailor who has been away from sailing for years. i took my family sailing on a hobie getaway while on vacation and they really liked it. however, i didn't like the performance of the getaway. the hulls were buoyant enough for the family, but the boat was fairly slow and not very exciting to sail solo.

i am going to sail 50% with my family and 50% alone. i weigh 260lbs and am not in the best shape of my life. with the family we will be 4 persons and 500+lbs. i will more than likely have to rig it each time from a boat ramp (unless i can find a very inexpensive place to leave the boat rigged) with minimal help from my wife. my daughters are both too young to help much at this point. we sail on the tennessee river and two large lakes (guntersville,wheeler) outside of huntsville alabama. there is a constant current of 3kts on the river and some areas are shallower than 3'. i am not however scared of daggerboards as the bulk of sailing will be done on the lake rather than river portion. i'd like to keep my budget under 4k if possible and reasonable. i'm looking for a boat that will be fun to sail, carry my family when i'm not solo, not be an absolute nightmare to rig, and not be impossible to find parts for when things break!!!

i really enjoyed sailing a supercat 19 many years ago, but i have no experience on beach cats other than one day on the getaway and many sails on hobie 16s. i could really use advice on which cats would most suit our needs. i recognize that there are many variables and that everything is give and take. however, i'd like to narrow it down to just a couple of boats that fit our criteria. thanks for the help.



edited by: 2out2sea, Aug 08, 2010 - 12:46 PM

the prindle 16/18 is a great family, "big boy", first cat. no boards, simple set up, large payload capacity, adequate performance. a 4k budget gets a real nice boat, parts readily available, easy solo sail, solo mast step on my p-16. sell it for what you paid when/if upgrade. one of my crew is 260 ish and i am 230ish, no problems, even in rough conditions. mine goes from trailor to rigged and loaded for sail in under 30 mins with minimal hep, a little longer solo.

--
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bill harris
hattiesburg, mississippi
prindle 16- "BLUE RIBBON"
--

coastrat,

thanks for the quick reply. are the 16/18 hulls bouyant enough not to submerge when flying a hull? i haven't even bothered looking at an h16 for the simple fact that i could easily submarine the lee hull even back when i was "only" 215-220lbs.

do you know how the p18 compares to the p19? thanks again for the advice.

I agree with coastrat. I have owned two hobies and 1 prindle. The p16/18 are great boats. Hobie 18's after 1986 is a fun boat. (too heavy prior) Prindle 19 I have never sailed but I would love to have one

--
Nacra 5.2
--

i have had 3 big guys(680lbs) on my p-16 in 20-25kt winds and still couldn't bury a hull. the p-18 is the old design(like p-16, no boards). the p-18-2 and 19 are modern designs(center boards). the old designs are easier to handle all around(family friendly) whereas the newer ones are total high performance. i would definitely recommend the old school for a first cat, learn how to get every bit of speed out of it before you upgrade. good luck

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bill harris
hattiesburg, mississippi
prindle 16- "BLUE RIBBON"
--

Nacra or Prindle ...Can't go wrong.

the prindle 18-2 and 19 have kick up center boards so solo is no problem. tramp does get a little crowded with 4 way jib system so performance or comfort it is your call. either way, these 2 can easily handle the load. some 18-2 parts are harder to find as they are a little rarer then 19's

thanks everyone. i like the idea of the p16 being easier to set-up and sail. it will keep the family interested if it's not too complicated. can anyone recommend a nacra? are they too high performance oriented? i do want a decent sailing cat. a large part of the reason i wasn't interested in the getaway was that i felt it to be a poor performer. sure it was simple to sail and family friendly, but was downright boring solo. i appreciate everyones input. it's tough being a big guy and trying to find the right combination.
brad

Don't rule out a H18 either. It does have daggerboards but you said that wasn't a problem. I personally like my H18 Magnum with wings. Could also find an H18SX that has wings also. It could handle your weight requirements and basically has bench seats which makes my wife (and me) much happier then sitting on the hulls.

You are right the H16 is to small for you. H17 would also be to small.

Lake Guntersville can be a nice lake to sail on if you can get the wind to cooperate. Never sailed Wheeler.

--
Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
--

~~ Scotts right..... I have a 17 & 18 Mag. so I know how both of them sail.... I weigh 185... An 18 would be good for you

--
~ Vietnam Vet 69-71~ 17 Hobie w/big jib, ~18 Hobie mag,~DN Ice sailor,
and other toys.......
~~ I live in NY state on the north shore of Oneida lake in
Bernhards Bay. ~~~~~~
--

2out2sea

can anyone recommend a nacra?

Brad, I don't know if you have heard but, chicks dig Nacras!


--
Philip
--

mummp

2out2sea

can anyone recommend a nacra?

Brad, I don't know if you have heard but, chicks dig Nacras!

Chicks like this!

Of course that is Andrew's wife after he showed her the trap hraness.

--
Nacra 5.2
--

I agree the p18 can handle the weight no problem but putting 4 people can be tricky in space to move around for tacking/gybing. It's hard to put 4 people on most of the boats and still have great performace. As far as Family Comfort the Getaway is probably the best.

I had 3 adults. That's me and my brother and his wife on last weekend and I am easily 2 adults worth myself and we didn't fly a hull but we had it going pretty good and did have the windward hull higher in the water than the leeward. I don't really know how much wind we had, It was decent for us but not really ripping by any means.

--
Dustin Finlinson • Magna, UT
Member: Utah Sailing Association
1982 Prindle 18
1986 Hobie 17
1982 Prindle 16
1980 Prindle 16(mostly)
1976 Prindle 16(mostly)
Check out "Prindle Sailors" on Facebook.
--

golfdad75

Of course that is Andrew's wife after he showed her the trap hraness.

My wife (future) is pissed off at that comment

Quarath

I agree the p18 can handle the weight no problem but putting 4 people can be tricky in space to move around for tacking/gybing. It's hard to put 4 people on most of the boats and still have great performace. As far as Family Comfort the Getaway is probably the best.

I had 3 adults. That's me and my brother and his wife on last weekend and I am easily 2 adults worth myself and we didn't fly a hull but we had it going pretty good and did have the windward hull higher in the water than the leeward. I don't really know how much wind we had, It was decent for us but not really ripping by any means.

the only thing that i like better about the nacra at this point is the boomless main. other than that it sounds like the p18 is a good choice for my family with enough bouyancy to have both of andrew's ladies tag along.

Quarath

Quote

I agree the p18 can handle the weight no problem but putting 4 people can be tricky in space to move around for tacking/gybing. It's hard to put 4 people on most of the boats and still have great performace. As far as Family Comfort the Getaway is probably the best.

This is a big advantage of the wings on a H18M or SX when taking spectators out. You can get people up off the tramp and out of the way. Plus they get to enjoy the ride and view without worrying about all that stuff going on to make the boat turn around. Similar comfort result as the Getaway, but a bigger more performance oriented boat.

BTW wings are also a lot of fun when you are solo and on the wire also since you are that much higher in the air.

--
Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
--

smfinley

This is a big advantage of the wings on a H18M or SX when taking spectators out. You can get people up off the tramp and out of the way.

This is the big reason I've stuck with a winged H18 all these years. I've taken four adults out through surf when I was the only one on board who sailed "everyone on the wings!".

Last summer took my "mid 70's" parents out with one on each wing and they never had to move, crawl across the tramp, or worry about getting hit with the boom.

--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

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Quote

Last summer took my "mid 70's" parents out with one on each wing and they never had to move, crawl across the tramp, or worry about getting hit with the boom.

and you can always remove the wings if you WANT someone to get hit with a boom.

ok, so the hobie 18 is in the running. question is how hard to rig on the trailer? fwiw my wife is gently nudging towards getting a getaway (groan). "we had so much fun...i don't know if we'll like one that's more complicated..." etc.

2out2sea

ok, so the hobie 18 is in the running. question is how hard to rig on the trailer? fwiw my wife is gently nudging towards getting a getaway (groan). "we had so much fun...i don't know if we'll like one that's more complicated..." etc.

Nothing wrong with the Getaway, get the front tramp and wings and you can carry a baseball team.

Not much difference in rigging a Hobie 18 and Getaway, or any other sloop-rigged beachcat. They get a lot more complicated with spinnaker, and a lot simpler if they don't have a jib. Other than that it's all up to how well you know the boat and if you have any help that knows the boat.

When people quote "time to rig" it's almost a random number because of so many variables and peoples different definitions of "rigging" a boat.

What makes much more difference than the boat type is when you have skipper and crew who regularly rig the boat together, both know their jobs and what the other is doing, don't have to talk about it, don't have to figure out how something is supposed to be rigged, don't have to hunt down the parts needed, and don't make mistakes that have to be undone and redone.

That skipper and crew will have a short rigging time regardless of boat.

Unfortunately ALL NEWBIES MUST STRUGGLE to get to that point, it's just the way it works with anything new you are learning.

--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

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andrewscott

golfdad75

Of course that is Andrew's wife after he showed her the trap hraness.

My wife (future) is pissed off at that comment

I am impressed Andrew, Jeeny Craig does wonders

--
Nacra 5.2
--

damonAdmin

When people quote "time to rig" it's almost a random number because of so many variables and peoples different definitions of "rigging" a boat.

What makes much more difference than the boat type is when you have skipper and crew who regularly rig the boat together, both know their jobs and what the other is doing, don't have to talk about it, don't have to figure out how something is supposed to be rigged, don't have to hunt down the parts needed, and don't make mistakes that have to be undone and redone.

That skipper and crew will have a short rigging time regardless of boat.

Unfortunately ALL NEWBIES MUST STRUGGLE to get to that point, it's just the way it works with anything new you are learning.

unless my daughters are replaced by aliens, i have little hope of assistance from either of them. mechanical intuition isn't a character trait that i was able to pass on to them. i'm just glad that they and their mother enjoy being on the water. i am going to be doing the rigging. unfortunately i'm wondering if the getaway might not be the best choice after all simply b/c of the front tramp. i had forgotten about that feature. guess where everyone spent their time when we were sailing. oh well. we'll see if i can convince everyone of the benenfits of going faster!!!

Hi there, I'm kinda in the same boat as you.... I have two daughters 9 and 11, the four of us go sailing on our SuperCat 17 with no troubles. Some things that I like about the SC 17 now that I've had it for a while are that it's boardless and boomless, it doesn't have any poles or ropes holding the tramp up, just one big unobstructed tramp. The tops of the hulls are rounded which makes it nice on the kids when they are out on the wire. I've enjoyed the support from Aquarius Sail, the manufacturer. Seems to point well but this is the only Cat I've had. Some cautions about the SC17 would be, when you are going fast enough to be flying a hull you really have to be on top of your fore/aft weight distribution.
Having said all that if I knew then what I know now I would have also looked at a Nacra 5.7 or 570 but I am very happy with my SC17 for all that I've asked of it.

--
Cranbrook, BC, Canada
SuperCat 17
--

front tramps are great for storage (i added one to my cat) but for most sailing situations.. the front tramp is the wrong place to have a person.

that being said the ability to get the cooler, bar, tv, pool table and jacuzzi off the main tramp will free up area for the crew to have more room

andrewscott

front tramps are great for storage (i added one to my cat) but for most sailing situations.. the front tramp is the wrong place to have a person.

that being said the ability to get the cooler, bar, tv, pool table and jacuzzi off the main tramp will free up area for the crew to have more room

when sailing slow with the family they loved sitting up there on the front tramp and getting wet. i just sat back at the helm and steered. it was slow going, but they had a ball. wondering now if it's possible to add a tramp to say a prindle 16 or hobie 18 that would be sturdy enough for people to lay on? i really don't want to buy a getaway if possible. for one it's beyond my proposed budget, and two it's just downright dull to sail. yeah sure it's simple and family friendly, but i'd really like to have at least a little performance out of my investment. if i wanted to go slow i'd buy a 25' monohull.

vintagemilano

Hi there, I'm kinda in the same boat as you.... I have two daughters 9 and 11, the four of us go sailing on our SuperCat 17 with no troubles. Some things that I like about the SC 17 now that I've had it for a while are that it's boardless and boomless, it doesn't have any poles or ropes holding the tramp up, just one big unobstructed tramp. The tops of the hulls are rounded which makes it nice on the kids when they are out on the wire. I've enjoyed the support from Aquarius Sail, the manufacturer. Seems to point well but this is the only Cat I've had. Some cautions about the SC17 would be, when you are going fast enough to be flying a hull you really have to be on top of your fore/aft weight distribution.
Having said all that if I knew then what I know now I would have also looked at a Nacra 5.7 or 570 but I am very happy with my SC17 for all that I've asked of it.

i will look into a supercat 19. i loved that boat years ago, but didn't realize that they were still available. i'll call aquarius. thanks for the heads-up.

If you want wet .. supercats are the way to go..

but i am sure you recall the mast is about 5999999 lbs

Quote

wondering now if it's possible to add a tramp to say a prindle 16 or hobie 18 that would be sturdy enough for people to lay on?

can it be done? yes. will the boat sail well... no (maybe downwind, but i wouldn't put weight that far forward ... up, down or sidewind)

I agree with Damon on the keys to rigging time. It really comes down to practice and organization. I have setup my H18 by myself faster then the two people rigging a H16 at the same time. I got a hand to raise the mast, but can do everything else myself. There is incrementally more work the more complex a boat you have, but it also depends on what you take off for trailering and how you store things. Everyone does it differently and you need to learn what works best for you.

--
Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
--

Look at the adds for another boat Dart Stampede-20: Boomless, clean deck, 4 trapeses, furling jib. Mast does not have diamond wires. Boat is trailored backwards making it easier to raise the mast. The mast is light. I can sail the boat singlehanded up to 20mph wind, I weigh 190, after that I need crew. Wife's weight is classified. I have sailed in over 40mph with 2 other adults on board, that is a little harry, Andrew can attest to that. A couple of weeks ago I took my brother, his daughter & her 3 friends out for a a cruise (ages 5-12). All had a blast. G-cat, Supercat 17 or 19, H-18, P-18, Nacra 570 would all be good choices.

--
Steve Fisherkeller
P19MX
--

Quote

d. I have sailed in over 40mph with 2 other adults on board, that is a little harry, Andrew can attest to that

I am not sure who little Harry is, the 3rd adult was an attractive girl. but yes, we did over 40.. we were all smiling from ear to ear.. the boat handled amazingly well.. even in the gusts (over 40) it held its own. i was VERY impressed with that boat.

thanks again for the continued replies. i'm probably not going to sail with "little harry", but good to know that the boat can handle it when things get a little hairy. not sure i know anything about darts. parts availability, etc are all concerns for me. certainly sounds like a nice boat. feel free to email me more info and pics. i'll need to know a lot more about it.
brad 2out2sea(at)msn.com

andrewscott

If you want wet .. supercats are the way to go..

but i am sure you recall the mast is about 5999999 lbs

Quote

wondering now if it's possible to add a tramp to say a prindle 16 or hobie 18 that would be sturdy enough for people to lay on?

can it be done? yes. will the boat sail well... no (maybe downwind, but i wouldn't put weight that far forward ... up, down or sidewind)

only time they were up on the front tramp was when we were just piddling. the sheets were eased and we were in slow motion mode. they loved getting drenched as the hulls dipped under the swells. certainly trying to actually sail like that would have been a disaster. remind me to tell of riding the tramp on a custom 67' cat in 10' caribbean swells off of antigua. wild...

2out2sea

certainly sounds like a nice boat. feel free to email me more info and pics. i'll need to know a lot more about it.brad 2out2sea(at)msn.com

I have never owned a dart, but we have several in on our beach. about 4 years ago, i parked my h18 and went out on a dart18 as the storms were getting crazy. we were doing about 30 with a 10' rooster tail and it was pure bliss.

look into the g-cats, front tramp and pretty fast!

--
Check out "Prindle Sailors" on Facebook!
bill harris
hattiesburg, mississippi
prindle 16- "BLUE RIBBON"
--

very hard to find any info on the g cat. did a couple of different searches and can't find a dealer. only one pic. the little i could read about the f16 sounds good. no boards, forward tramp, but fun and fast.

andrewscott

front tramps are great for storage (i added one to my cat) but for most sailing situations.. the front tramp is the wrong place to have a person.

that being said the ability to get the cooler, bar, tv, pool table and jacuzzi off the main tramp will free up area for the crew to have more room

It is true though that the Getaway has a little more flotation out front than most beachcats, and the factory front tramp is built to handle passengers, at least small ones.


--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

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i meant "real boats" :)

(just kidding, rotomolds have their place)

but for just about any stock glass/gelcoat beach cat.. front tramps are for gear as weight that far forward will dramatically effect things like, balance, helm, weather helm, rudders, ability to tack, etc

Quote

very hard to find any info on the g cat. did a couple of different searches and can't find a dealer. only one pic. the little i could read about the f16 sounds good. no boards, forward tramp, but fun and fast.

G-cats are not in production currently, and haven't really been for many years. Last year the owner/developer Hans did make 1 new 5.0 but he didnt go into production. He does have a 34' power g-cat for sale. i was on it 2 weeks ago, and if i had the $300,000 i might buy it :)

They were designed as a fun and family boat but ended up being pretty darn fast too. there are pros and cons to not having boards (they have hulls like a h16, round and very sharp edge that turns the entire hull into a board.)

as many cats, the rudders and castings are the Achilles heel of this model and replacement ones getting harder to find.

I personally like the boat very much.

Recently I bought a Prindle 18-2, and sail it solo only, I am 6ft4 and close to 290 lbs, at windspeeds from 11 knts up its
really fun to sail. Don't think a prindle 18-2 or 19 is a family-cat and suitable for your demands.Tramp is to small and has lot of lines running. My neighbour at the catclub has a Dart 20(aka Stampede) and I agree with Steve, large tramp, no daggerboards,easy rigging and he sails it solo numerous times even at 22 knts. He is about your size. Don't know if there are much Darts 20 available in the USA, but this could be the one.

--
Tornado (80's Reg White)
Prindle 18-2 (sold)
Dart 16 (hired and hooked)
13 mtr steel cutter (sold)
Etap 22, unsinkable sailing pocket cruiser.

Amsterdam, the Netherlands
--

damonAdmin

2out2sea

ok, so the hobie 18 is in the running. question is how hard to rig on the trailer? fwiw my wife is gently nudging towards getting a getaway (groan). "we had so much fun...i don't know if we'll like one that's more complicated..." etc.

Nothing wrong with the Getaway, get the front tramp and wings and you can carry a baseball team.

Not much difference in rigging a Hobie 18 and Getaway, or any other sloop-rigged beachcat. They get a lot more complicated with spinnaker, and a lot simpler if they don't have a jib. Other than that it's all up to how well you know the boat and if you have any help that knows the boat.

When people quote "time to rig" it's almost a random number because of so many variables and peoples different definitions of "rigging" a boat.

What makes much more difference than the boat type is when you have skipper and crew who regularly rig the boat together, both know their jobs and what the other is doing, don't have to talk about it, don't have to figure out how something is supposed to be rigged, don't have to hunt down the parts needed, and don't make mistakes that have to be undone and redone.

That skipper and crew will have a short rigging time regardless of boat.

Unfortunately ALL NEWBIES MUST STRUGGLE to get to that point, it's just the way it works with anything new you are learning.

Yes Damon,
youre right here, store my p18-2 60 feet from the waterside,
mast up.
7 weeks ago it took me over 70 min. to get out on the water, now its less then 30 min. including neoprene.
Learned a lot from the guys at the club and on this site.
Thank you for that.


--
Tornado (80's Reg White)
Prindle 18-2 (sold)
Dart 16 (hired and hooked)
13 mtr steel cutter (sold)
Etap 22, unsinkable sailing pocket cruiser.

Amsterdam, the Netherlands
--

i have replied to the thread on the dart/stampede 20 that's for sale, but haven't heard anything back from the seller. i have a business trip to orlando next month so i was thinking of checking it out. maybe it's sold. i see the getaway that's for sale as well. just a little too far out of the budget right now. otherwise i'd probably just buy it.

brad

Nacra 6.0 ? Blast from the past, but a big cat. Simplify the
the tweak lines, make a clean trampoline and it will be fun to sail . A lot of cat!! And a challenge to sail solo.
Must be available in your regions. Downside; daggerboards and maybe a little to much weight to get in / out of the water solo.

--
Tornado (80's Reg White)
Prindle 18-2 (sold)
Dart 16 (hired and hooked)
13 mtr steel cutter (sold)
Etap 22, unsinkable sailing pocket cruiser.

Amsterdam, the Netherlands
--

i just thought i'd update this thread with a caveat. i was very interested in the dart 20 of steve's, but he was able to sell it before i had a chance to see it. good for steve, bad for me. so in my continued searching i stumbled upon a late 80's hobie 18 that is local. i haven't seen the sails, but it has the magnum wings and is at a location where i can leave it rigged without having to hassle with trailering it back and forth. from a quick look it appears to be in good condition albeit pretty dirty. the gudgeons have no cracks, the daggerboard wells have no cracks, i didn't notice any soft spots on the deck, and the hulls appear sound with no signs of repairs. it also has the epo rudders. the tramps are faded, but undamaged. it's on a trailer and seems that with a little elbow grease it would clean up nicely. the guy is asking 2k for it. is that a fair price? where can i get a cover for it as it will be stored outside? thanks again for everyone's help. i'd love to have gotten the dart 20, but the 18 seems like an ok trade-off. at least i get the wings on this set-up.

brad

the 18 is a great cat.. not a bad first boat at all, just learn how to depower it in heavy air

if the tramp is faded, it may be shot. is it mesh or stock (pleather)? if mesh, i would take a VERY close look at it... use your fingernail and see if you can break a thread .. if you can it needs replacing (you dont want to fall through it ever, esp while stepping a mast) a tramp can cost you a good chunk.. but if everything else is good on the boat i wouldn't let that stop you.

Yes 2k sounds about right for a h18 with wings, but all things are relative..

i personally wouldn't worry about covering a 20 year old cat that is already weathered. if you really want to, you can simply put a couple walmart tarps on it.. but remove them in hurricane winds (they can beat up your cat floggin like heck)

there are several products available that will help clean up old faded gel-coat, and depending on its condition you can even wet sand it back to glory..

just to clarify, it has the "pleather" tramp. the tramps on both wings and the main tramp are all the yellow color. they are all faded, but still felt pliable. i didn't jump up on the tramp since the owner wasn't around. i'll check more closely when the owner shows me the boat. thanks again for all of the good info on this site. i really wish i could have bought stevefisherkeller's dart 20. she looked like a very nice boat at a great price. but, like they say, "snooze ya lose."

I recently bought an 84 18 with origingal yellow (faded) vinyl tramp. It is almost faded white but is still very strong, I weigh 270, and have had 3 crew on with me.

So if structurally the tramp looks sound I would not worry too much about the fade. The Hobie OE tramps are very strong.

Have a great time.

--
David
Memphis, TN
'84 Hobie 18
--

Glad this thread was brought back, I had forgotten about MN3's tramp.......

--
David
Memphis, TN
'84 Hobie 18
--

sailinagin

I recently bought an 84 18 with origingal yellow (faded) vinyl tramp. It is almost faded white but is still very strong, I weigh 270, and have had 3 crew on with me.

So if structurally the tramp looks sound I would not worry too much about the fade. The Hobie OE tramps are very strong.

Have a great time.

Yeah, those tramp's are VERY VERY VERY sturdy....and they are hard to break, on the Prindle 18-2 i first started sailing on, they still have not replaced the tramp...and i think it's a modded hobie tramp.

--
Tyler holmes
Panama city, FL

Boat whore
--

Quote

just to clarify, it has the "pleather" tramp.

yes, not as big a deal... it's the mesh Polypropylene and Polyester stitching that are the ones you MUST be very careful with... the pleather ones seem to be more robust and hold up pretty well to years of UV. the mesh ones have about a 5 year lifespan in the sun (at least around here in africa/florida)

I bought my cat from a very mean angry guy (still reading these threads Dave?) and he bought it from a guy who had stored the boat for years and didn't inspect it at all before he brought his family out sailing... after he couldn't get the center boards down.. he found out why.. a family of wasps had taken up in the board wells... in his (and family's) dancing around on the boat (while being attacked by wasps) he then learned the tramp was shot (as he and his family fell through it....he then hit shallows, and was so worked up and angry about the day.. he sold the cat on the spot to the mean, ugly, angry, opportunist that owned it prior to me...

(just kidding dave, your not really an angry guy... well not till you read this at least) :)