The other day i turtled, in about 10 foot of water. Mast stuck in the muck. It didn't help that my first timer friend found shelter on the boom. Any ways it seems like a mast float would save my life form time to time. but nobody has them from what i have seen. Are they not cool? Also, when i paint my H18 this fall i wanted to get a new tramp too. whats your preference vinyl of mesh? would a black tramp get too hot?

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Nacra 6.0 NA
Ogden Dunes, IN
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I have turtled twice in water less than 30 feet, the length of my mast, & stuck it in the mud. Both times were due to new crew holding onto the mast.
The bay I am on, is mostly 5-20 feet deep, so I can stick it in the mud pretty much anywhere, until I get around the point & into the open chuck.
I don't worry about it. If the mast is lying in the mud on a shallow angle, it will come out as soon as you hike out to right it, & float just near the surface,(as long as it is sealed properly).
If you turtle in deeper water, so the mast is nearly vertical it might take a bit of work to get it loose. Two of us stood on the transom, that rotated the cat, allowing the mast to come up. You might have to wait for the wind to swing the cat, pivoting around the mast tip, depending on what angle you hit the mud at. After it comes horizontal, just swim out to the tip & slosh the crud off, then right the boat.
There are some Mcgyver mast floats, but so far I haven't found I needed one on my N5.7



edited by: Edchris177, Aug 17, 2010 - 03:14 PM

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Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
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when i paint my H18 this fall i wanted to get a new tramp too. whats your preference vinyl of mesh? would a black tramp get too hot?

unless you are racing in class races (that require stock tramps), i see NO reason for a solid tramp. they will catch wind when your on your side... possibly making righting harder.. definatly making your boat sail sideways faster (when capsized) and will puddle water on your tramp (i prefer not to sit in a puddle).

Yes black mesh will get warm... if not hot.. but a splash of water and its fine.

Andrew, I'm not sure the solid tramp will dcatch more wind than mesh.
Years ago we did wind tunnel tests on solid truck tailgates & those web mesh ones. The solid gate was actually less resistance. It formed an "air bubble" in the box of the truck, that allowed the air moving over the cab to flow better.
Early in my jet career I flew a Citation II biz jet. The speed brakes were panels that extended from the upper surface of the wing, & they were more holes than solid metal. We questioned the effectiveness vis-a-vis solid panels. The engineers got back to us & said wind tunnel testing confirmed the swiss cheese look created more drag. Aparently the more holes, the more surface area that "shreds" the airflow, resulting in greater drag.
My tramp is a very tight mesh, but it does allow water to seep through fairly quickly. I agree, sitting in a puddle is no fun, even if it is a warm one.

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Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

we had three sailors and a volunteer attempting to right us. it wouldn't budge. and im not worried about getting stuck. im worried about completely turtling when im in over my mast height which is every where on lake Michigan. and the nearest boat might be 5 miles away and/or a 1000ft freighter.
And Andrew does the water splash through the mesh?

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Nacra 6.0 NA
Ogden Dunes, IN
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Aparently the more holes, the more surface area that "shreds" the airflow, resulting in greater drag.

i would have to GUESS that is at high speed.. but i certainly have no proof of such. if it is the case, why not make mesh sails? :)

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Andrew does the water splash through the mesh?

a bit. you can get moist from a good splash, but it also depends on the boat/amount of freeboard (hull height).

i had a h18 that was much wetter than my current mystere as it sat much lower in the water.

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Aparently the more holes, the more surface area that "shreds" the airflow, resulting in greater drag.

Why are tennis wind screens made of mesh?

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Nacra 5.2
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I'm with Andrew. vinyl of mesh parachute Seriously though, mast floats? are they for newbs?

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Nacra 6.0 NA
Ogden Dunes, IN
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Mast floats are for newbs, at least commercial ones. First thing to do, get some good marine sealant(preferably clear for aesthetics but white will do) and seal the top of the mast, seal around the top casting and any tangs and rivets. Don't seal castings and rivets near the bottom (you want any water that gets trapped in there to be able to escape). Now you have a buoyant mast that will help a quite bit, but probably won't make up for a silly crew who rides the boat down!

Next go and get one or two tether balls or larger blow up boat bumpers and when you get silly people riding with you attach these to the head board at the top of the sail. This will give you the same boyancy as a commercial mast float for about $20 and keep you out of the muck for the most part. They will look a little silly bouncing around up there but if anyone says anything about flying two tether balls from the mast, just tell them your boat has bigger balls than them!! :)

My lake is only about 8 ft deep and we once stuck our Hobie 16 mast about 5 feet in the muck. Luckily this was before comp tips, but it still took us 2 power boats and about 3 hours to get it out. Not something I ever want to do again.

Oh and I wouldn't have anything but a mesh tramp. So nice not sitting in a puddle.



edited by: Wolfman, Aug 17, 2010 - 11:00 PM

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Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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I used to think mast floats were for noobes. But I single hand my Tornado and don't want Lake Patrol vhelping me right. Put a Hobie Baby Bob painted silver on my mast. Next thing local dentist with a "T" did same (he capsized once & turtled). My 14 year old daughter has one on her P-16 as she single hands. No difference in speed noticed--she still wins all races. They're about $120 & can be easily installed.

Pete

My son (175 lbs) was soloing and turned my Hobie 18 over about 100 Yards offshore on the South Carolina coast. Mast was sealed, no comptip, no "GoofyBob" on top. The boat was on its side for at least 30 mins and the mast did not even consider sinking. He was on and off the hull during that time.

I swam out to help, while he was using the vinyl tramp to catch wind and push him closer to shore. No water, or no detectable water got in the mast.


After this, I am convinced I wont need one of those things on my mast. But I'll need to get him a righting bag if he sails solo much more.

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David
Memphis, TN
'84 Hobie 18
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thanks wolfman. ill check it out and see if its sealed. a guy on my lake has two boat bumpers tied up there they look like hell. what would be the ultimate is one of those self inflating PFDs.

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Nacra 6.0 NA
Ogden Dunes, IN
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Kevin219

when i paint my H18 this fall

Why are you planning to paint your boat? Is it damaged or you want to change the color?

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i wanted to get a new tramp too. whats your preference vinyl of mesh? would a black tramp get too hot?

I think Hobie Cat is the only company still making solid vinyl tramps and they only sell white.

Pros:

• Much cheaper than the factory mesh $439 vs $579
  
• The vinyl tramp is nearly indestructible, plenty of 30 year old vinyl tramps still sailing.
  
• They don't stretch at all so can be laced extremely tight.
  
• depending on the conditions they can seem like a dryer ride
  

Cons

• They only come in white
  
• Once water comes over the front beam it can pool where you are sitting
  

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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

How To Create Your Signature

How To Create Your Own Cool Avatar

How To Display Pictures In The Forums.
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Kevin219

would a black tramp get too hot?

No, don't worry about that, the tramp is plastic and air.

Now black beams and mast, they can get really hot

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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

How To Create Your Signature

How To Create Your Own Cool Avatar

How To Display Pictures In The Forums.
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well my yellow is real faded and it would be nice to hide some fiber glass repairs. i was thinking orange with tiger stripes? jungle cat. and i got a 29 year old yellow vinyl tramp. i have the "slo sails and canvas" brochure here they say mesh is cheaper.

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Nacra 6.0 NA
Ogden Dunes, IN
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Kevin219

well my yellow is real faded and it would be nice to hide some fiber glass repairs.

Properly painting is a huge undertaking, so first try some serious wet-sanding and polishing, you might be amazed how good it looks. But like I said before, if you have big ugly damage that can't be "buffed out" then painting is always an option.

Just wanted to mention it might not be necessary, a lot of sailors don't realize how thick the gel coat is on these boats or that they aren't painted.

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i have the "slo sails and canvas" brochure here they say mesh is cheaper.

When I said vinyl is cheaper I was only comparing factory vinyl vs factory mesh. Aftermarket mesh is usually cheaper than factory anything.

No one makes aftermarket vinyl tramps.

Be careful of SLO, check this thread.
http://www.thebeachcats.c…ewtopic-topic-11657.html

I'll plug my advertiser now Tampa Cats Trampolines - Hobie 18 for $229

--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

How To Create Your Signature

How To Create Your Own Cool Avatar

How To Display Pictures In The Forums.
--

Quote

hanks wolfman. ill check it out and see if its sealed. a guy on my lake has two boat bumpers tied up there they look like hell. what would be the ultimate is one of those self inflating PFDs.

Windage and weight! if you don't care... then cool... I would :)

the ultimate would be (IMHO) a balloon that can be deployed upon need (via an air hose in the mast, to a control button at the base). Those self enflating pfd's may self inflate in a sprinkle/rain

i had a friend whos did, inside a dry bag (due to condensation).. he had to cut it out :)



edited by: andrewscott, Aug 19, 2010 - 11:55 AM

I have a baby bob and all mounting hardware if your interested. PM me if you want it.

If i was sailing a brand new carbon 20 or a wildcat i would rather be shot than rock a baby bob on my mast just because of the hard time id get on the beach. On an older boat i wouldnt feel "Uncool" running one. Its another piece protection and when your buddy on the F18 is turtle due to a leaky mast who is the "Uncool" one then? A well sealed mast acts the same as the baby bob but you can never tell when the sealant is breaking down and its time to reseal so the baby bob is a fool proof safety item.

We sail offshore from the beach in open water so for us our safety is our first goal so thats why i dont mind the bob on boats. It may look goofy but it works and is just one more cheap item that ensures your going to make it home in one piece.

When you go to a local regatta and dont want the :Noob" look you can always remove a couple bolts and throw it in the car. I have a baby bob on one of my masts for a P19MX thats specifically for a "Flip it day" or what some would call a "Find the limits day"

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A well sealed mast acts the same as the baby bob but you can never tell when the sealant is breaking down and its time to reseal so the baby bob is a fool proof safety item.

you can always take off the 2 shackles (stay and trap) and place your mast in the water for a few minutes to check for leaks.



edited by: andrewscott, Aug 19, 2010 - 12:28 PM

andrewscott

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A well sealed mast acts the same as the baby bob but you can never tell when the sealant is breaking down and its time to reseal so the baby bob is a fool proof safety item.

you can always take off the 2 shackles (stay and trap) and place your mast in the water for a few minutes to check for leaks.edited by: andrewscott, Aug 19, 2010 - 12:28 PM

Thats what i do but a more casual type sailor may not want to do that every few months or they may not remember to do it. Either way you look at it its a extra level of protection to going turtle. We often sail 10-15 miles offshore on any given weekend and when your that far out the look of the baby bob isnt on your mind...You will enjoy the feeling of protection it gives you.

We put our mast in the pool and use it like a pool noodle!

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you can always take off the 2 shackles (stay and trap) and place your mast in the water for a few minutes to check for leaks.

i had this in mind.

Quote

I have a baby bob and all mounting hardware if your interested. PM me if you want it.

will 32 lbs of displacement be enough for me?

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Be careful of SLO, check this thread.

i saw it and its clear where your heart lies i too am a florida fan ill check them out

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Properly painting is a huge undertaking, so first try some serious wet-sanding and polishing, you might be amazed how good it looks. But like I said before, if you have big ugly damage that can't be "buffed out" then painting is always an option.

if i can paint a car i think i can paint a boathttp://www.facebook.com/h…0957280947&ref=fbx_album
but the sanding is giving me trouble i power buffed it, but too much work for too little return. and currently im just using 130 grit. whats the best way i can go about wet sanding it?

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Nacra 6.0 NA
Ogden Dunes, IN
--

Quote

Properly painting is a huge undertaking, so first try some serious wet-sanding and polishing, you might be amazed how good it looks. But like I said before, if you have big ugly damage that can't be "buffed out" then painting is always an option.

if i can paint a car i think i can paint a boathttp://www.facebook.com/h…0957280947&ref=fbx_album
but the sanding is giving me trouble i power buffed it, but too much work for too little return. and currently im just using 130 grit. whats the best way i can go about wet sanding it?[/quote]

OH NO!!! Way way way to coarse.

Depending on how far gone the gelcoat will decide what grit to start with.

I'm in the middle of doing my new H18 and started with a GOOD once over with 400 followed by a once over of 600 followed by a strong 1500 followed by a 2000 grit once over and then a polishing compound followed by 2 coats of good wax.

It's one helluva lotta elbow grease but in my opinion worth it. My once dull faded hulls are coming right back to life with a nice bright shine.

Quote

I'm in the middle of doing my new H18 and started with a GOOD once over with 400 followed by a once over of 600 followed by a strong 1500 followed by a 2000 grit once over and then a polishing compound followed by 2 coats of good wax.

2000? thats smoother than paper, im painting it not buffing it. i want to give the paint something to stick to


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Nacra 6.0 NA
Ogden Dunes, IN
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I have been sailing this summer and flip over the cat 4 times. I will be placing a mast float on for next season. I sail solo often and I would prefer to be able to right the boat by myself.

Kevin, the baby bob would probably be enough if your mast is sealed. You don't have to get the entire mast out of the water and a little buoyancy at the top of the mast goes a long way with such a large lever. What you are really going for is to get that top hull closer to vertical and make the best use of your body weight leverage.

Even moving that top hull a few inches can make a huge difference. One of the self righting systems is just a short quick release extension on the shrouds to bring the top hull closer to the center of gravity.


Before spending the money I would try out attaching a tether ball or two or even a couple of empty milk jugs to the head plate on your main or halyard shackle. If one doesn't do it try 2 and then you will know for sure if a baby or mama bob is what you need.

Also revisit your righting technique Mast facing the wind so the tramp helps push you over, all sheets uncleated and manually let out so the main is hanging close to straight down, righting line attached to the mast base and thrown OVER the top hull, you hanging out as far as you can without touching the water in line with the front beam. That will give you help from the wind, the most leverage and least resistance. If you still can't right it you need more buoyancy in the mast and/or more weight (a water bag).

Some boats just need quite a bit of weight to right for some reason. Hobie 16s for instance seem to need way more weight to right than many 18 footers, probably because of the low hull volume.

--
Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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a gallon of water weighs 8.35 pounds. with milk jugs i should be able to get a pretty accurate measurement of how much buoyancy i need. ill get back to you Wolfman. my technique is faulty too i need some practice.

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Nacra 6.0 NA
Ogden Dunes, IN
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I got one of the floats from the Murray's catalog, figure better to be on the safe side because righting my old prindle is extremely difficult by myself if I don't manage to catch some wind under the sails to help.

Yeah, some boats are just a pain to right no matter what you do. Even the same model of boat can vary depending on year of manufacture (i.e. the pre and post 1985 Nacras right differentely because of the change from straight fibreglass hulls to sandwich construction) and the rig setup. Once you have followed all the advice for 'power righting' (some of which I repeated above) and you still can't get the boat up, it's time to find an assist that works for you. Mast floats work as well as water buckets and righting poles. Mast floats are probably the simplest solution to start with.



edited by: Wolfman, Aug 20, 2010 - 10:28 PM

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Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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i agree with wolfman. sailing the H16 this summer and could not right it by myself of course it was windy. but a guy in a powerboat come by. dangerous i know but all he did has lift the top of my mast and presto. so I will be placing a baby-bob this winter on my mast. security is a good thing when your tired from pushing the limits all day and you get a really big gust on a windy day.

Quote

f i can paint a car i think i can paint a boathttp://www.face...ef=fbx_album
but the sanding is giving me trouble i power buffed it, but too much work for too little return. and currently im just using 130 grit. whats the best way i can go about wet sanding it?

Uh no that is not the same. Unless your car is a Corvette. Of course you made have hobie 18 that is made of steel.

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Nacra 5.2
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i also painted my house... still not qualified? the point is im self taught i can figure it out

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Nacra 6.0 NA
Ogden Dunes, IN
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Your right, but I would not suggest using anything over 1000 grit uless you are planning on gel coating again.. Find a small flexible sanding block, Dip in water and sand. Also be sure to use a buffer not a polisher. There is a big difference. You would be amazed at how good it would look afterwards. Also no cheap rubbing compound.

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Nacra 5.2
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i went to 1500 then buffed it it look pretty good. time constraints might just leave it that way

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Nacra 6.0 NA
Ogden Dunes, IN
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