Raising and lowering the main sail is a pain in the butt !!!
If there was a winch reefing the sail may be possible AND you could lower the sail in the water. Has anyone had any experience with this ?????

Interesting idea, you would have to put grommets in the luff of the sail to tie it down to "soemthing" when you reef it. You would also need a very strong halyard that would not stretch.

What are yo having trouble with?

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David
Memphis, TN
'84 Hobie 18
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it shouldnt be that hard. i would check:
battens aren't over tight
mast track is cleaned and lubed
there are no pinches in the mast track
the bolt rope hasn't swollen up
the halyard is as thin as possible
the cheave inside the halyard block is in good shape. at the top at the mast and if there is one on the bottom as well

i got my main running smooth although that hook at the top is a mother. i drilled and tapped my mast near the foot installed a cleat and am now tieing it off the main halyard every time. its simple, painless, and dont see why hobie never went with it in the first place

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Nacra 6.0 NA
Ogden Dunes, IN
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Lets see...... maybe because he did think of it.

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Nacra 5.2
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well his i think is the inferior

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Nacra 6.0 NA
Ogden Dunes, IN
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If raising and lowering is that bad something is binding and a winch would likely allow you to bind badly and wreck your sail, the halyard or the track. They don't always go up entirely smoothly but it sounds like your setup isn't working right. Also if the boat isn't facing direcly into the with the bolt rope is sure to bind a few times while raising. I regularly spray my bolt rope with silicon spray and that seems to help alot.

On easy option would be to rig up a block on the halyard and a cheek block on the mast and make up a 2 or 3:1 purchase system. Of course you would end up with 80 ft of halyard line to stow...

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Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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I think that Andrew and Dave are right. You have something going on that shouldn't be happening. If it was supposed to be that hard there wouldn't be thousands of them sailing without tieing off the main halyard. BUT if you like that method by all means stick with it.

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Nacra 5.2
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Quote

i drilled and tapped my mast near the foot installed a cleat and am now tieing it off the main halyard every time. its simple, painless, and dont see why hobie never went with it in the first place

when you run your sail up the track and it catches the hook you have what it was designed to handle

if you run your halyard up, around a block and back down to the foot, you have just doubled the force on the mast. If you have a comp tip.. this could be trouble.

if you don't have a comp tip.. you still have double the force on your mast and COULD be a problem ... thats why they use a ring on top, or a bead on a wire halyard that fits into the fork ontop





edited by: andrewscott, Aug 20, 2010 - 09:30 AM

Still interested in specifically what you are having a problem with. In addition to what is mentioned above I have had headaches with unhooking the main. The problem was my knot. My bowline was too long and the knot was hitting the block at the top of the mast before it could clear the hook (yes I was rotating the mast after pulling the halyard).

Many H18 sailors remove the flapper that came with the older boats - I removed mine and it made hooking the main much easier - Hobie even recommends removing the flapper.



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David
Memphis, TN
'84 Hobie 18
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Quote

The problem was my knot. My bowline was too long and the knot was hitting the block at the top of the mast before it could clear the hook

i never used a bowline with my ring (h18 or current cat). Always a stopper knot (fig 8)

of course there are different ring types. and i am knot saying (pun inteded) that a bowline is wrong, just different from what i do, and have seen


I have my knot facing back, but have been told it works best facing forward on an h18 (didnt on mine).

I also have been told i am rotating my mast incorrectly when i lower my sail... but it almost ALWAYS comes down without a hitch (pun intended),

Thanks for the info. My halyard ring is the style that has a "segment" bar from about 12 o'clock to about 4 o'clock across the ring. So now I have the bowline at the 4 oclock and a clove hitch at the 12 oclock positions. Put a couple twists in the halyard before attaching the main and this has been working well. Like you say definately face the knot away from the mast.

HA - when I read (fig 8) in your post I started looking for figure 8! Man I need to get some coffee.

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David
Memphis, TN
'84 Hobie 18
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Kevin,
I had a lot of trouble with unlocking my halyard from the lock at the top of the mast. I bought a Murrays halyard ring and that solved the problem, halyard is easy to unlock. I have a comp tip mast on my Hobie 18 and I use a stopper knot setup to be able to get the halyard up as much as possible. Anyways the shackle was a real deal changer as I wanted to take my halyard lock off as well due to frustration getting the halyard unlocked. Try it again with either the hobie shackle or the Murrays shackle with stopper knot setup or have the halyard spliced to the shackle. Also spray the bolt rope with Mclube before you hoist the sail, it makes a huge difference. Good luck. Ryan



edited by: rssailor, Sep 03, 2010 - 01:34 AM

i tried mclube and different shackles and all kinds of stuff at the top there. Im a cleater now and ive never looked back. simple is always better.

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Nacra 6.0 NA
Ogden Dunes, IN
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Kevin219

i tried mclube and different shackles and all kinds of stuff at the top there. Im a cleater now and ive never looked back. simple is always better.

Whatever gets you on the water I guess, but I wish I could be there with you raising your sail just once and I guarantee you would decide the hook is superior afterwords. There are small equipment and technique details that make all the difference but are hard to describe.

To me the hook IS the simple way and is used by almost all beachcats. Putting the halyard under tension by cleating makes it impossible to keep the sail fully raised and get proper downhaul tension due to stretch in 28 feet of halyard. Also you are putting stresses on the pulleys at the top and base of the mast they are not intended to see.

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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

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In my opinion this is the ring that works best on the Hobie 18, on this one you put the halyard through the small hole and tie a stopper knot.

The stopper knot should end up on the mast side of the ring when the ring is attached to the sail, that way the pressure of the halyard pulling up tilts the ring slightly towards the hook instead of away from it.


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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

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that does look pretty nifty. i wish you could be there to sail with me too Damon. crew an i just got off the water. hull flying at midnight!!

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Nacra 6.0 NA
Ogden Dunes, IN
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Kevin219

crew an i just got off the water. hull flying at midnight!!

Hey that's awesome. I haven't done it this year but full-moon sailing makes even my muddy local lake look beautiful. We even used to have the "Dead Elvis Regatta" with the start at moon-rise in August. Good Times.


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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

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~~ I was having trouble with my 17 Hobie ring & hook not catchin up there and I wanted to play with my toy, so I got it up tight, tied it off at the base and went out sailin... got out there a few miles~~ the line broke, and it was good line..... That's why they have a hook & ring, no strain on the halyard.........

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~ Vietnam Vet 69-71~ 17 Hobie w/big jib, ~18 Hobie mag,~DN Ice sailor,
and other toys.......
~~ I live in NY state on the north shore of Oneida lake in
Bernhards Bay. ~~~~~~
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For the geeks among us.....the original patent for catamaran halyard design. Circa 1978. Coast Catamaran Corp.

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4077347.pdf

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David
Memphis, TN
'84 Hobie 18
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Damon it sounds like TN has got quite the sailing scene. im jealous.

Quote

got out there a few miles~~ the line broke, and it was good line

what size rope?



edited by: Kevin219, Sep 04, 2010 - 10:39 AM

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Nacra 6.0 NA
Ogden Dunes, IN
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I find that the segmented ring with a twist shackle works perfectly, Never had a problem once I figured out how to use it- Rope/knot ties to the smaller segment (smaller area in the circle). The knot type makes little difference with this ring. Raise it with the larger segment on the Right side of the mast going up (knot on left). It'll hook every time with the mast strait back or close to it. To lower, raise with the mast strait back then turn base to Right. The wind is a factor to some degree. It always works (agian, once I figured it out with lots of binocular time!) I love the system.

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H18, H17, P19, Glastron GT-150 (Bond jump boat)
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Quote

We even used to have the "Dead Elvis Regatta" with the start at moon-rise in August. Good Times.

did you have to worry about navigation lights?

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Nacra 6.0 NA
Ogden Dunes, IN
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Kevin219

Quote

We even used to have the "Dead Elvis Regatta" with the start at moon-rise in August. Good Times.

did you have to worry about navigation lights?

We didn't, but remember this is not a really large or busy lake (especially at night) and with the full moon on a clear night you can see clearly.

Sometimes we've used red and green glow sticks taped to the shrouds, but not every time.

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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

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we had an orange glow stick red and green though thats good thinking. my lake is deserted at that hour anyway

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Nacra 6.0 NA
Ogden Dunes, IN
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damonAdmin

Kevin219

Quote

We even used to have the "Dead Elvis Regatta" with the start at moon-rise in August. Good Times.

did you have to worry about navigation lights?

We didn't, but remember this is not a really large or busy lake (especially at night) and with the full moon on a clear night you can see clearly.

Sometimes we've used red and green glow sticks taped to the shrouds, but not every time.

coast guard regs don't require nav lights on non powered vessels under 21'.

BUT it is a bit dangerous to "drive without headlights on at night" esp if your where a power boat may go. some power boaters fly at night relying on their radar...

when i find myself out after sunset....
What i do is wear a very bright led headlamp, upside down on my head, light shining up at my sails for others to see me.

I also recently found some good led red and green battery powered glowsticks (from publix supermarket of all places). Walmart sells a crappy one as well. I hang these off my side stay chain plates below the deck line.

regular glowsticks have a very limited range (you can only see them under 60' but the power ones can be seen for a few 100'.

the most important thing to keep in mind is DON"'T LOOK AT THE LIGHTS. it will kill your night vision.

Quote

coast guard regs don't require nav lights on non powered vessels under 21'.

i read in a book otherwise but your right drew thanks


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Nacra 6.0 NA
Ogden Dunes, IN
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Kevin219

Quote

coast guard regs don't require nav lights on non powered vessels under 21'.

i read in a book otherwise but your right drew thanks

I forgot to mention, by cg rules you ARE required to have a torch (flashlight)


INTERNATIONAL
Lights and Shapes
RULE 25?CONTINUED
(d)
(i) A sailing vessel of less than 7 meters in length shall, if practicable,
exhibit the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) or (b) of this Rule, but if
she does not, she shall have ready at hand an electric torch or lighted
lantern showing a white light which shall be exhibited in sufficient time
to prevent collision.

Page 84
http://www.navcen.uscg.go…Rules%28Corrected%29.pdf

PS there could be local laws that require running lights (i think)_

Quote

she shall have ready at hand an electric torch or lighted
lantern showing a white light

i think im going to go with the propane lantern

--
Nacra 6.0 NA
Ogden Dunes, IN
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A flashlight attached to the mast and pointed on/up the sail also does a good job of making you more visible at night also. I like the idea of the headlight pointed up too. All my night sailing has been small lakes and full moons, and we haven't seen powerboats.

--
Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
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Scott when are we going to start our own regatta?

--
Nacra 6.0 NA
Ogden Dunes, IN
--

Quote

(i) A sailing vessel of less than 7 meters in length shall, if practicable,...

Several decades ago I did a stint with my old company as a check airman, A authority. That was to retest & certify pilots on our jets during their annual matrix. Part of getting the A authority was to attend a course put on by the Feds from the aviation branch of Transport. One module was legalese, not what you might think a word, phrase or sentence meant, but what the lawyers would pound you with if it ever came to a board of inquiry, generally after an accident. The most commonly misunderstood weasel words are, in no particular order; should,shall, will, must, recommended, good airmanship dictates, practicable & practical.
In the reg quoted above they use the word practicable, as opposed to practical. They are two totally different words. In essence, practicable means "if physically able".
So, if forced to defend your actions after an accident,(even though said accident was caused by a powerboater running full blast WITHOUT lights)you may very well expect to be asked, "would it have been physically possible to attach some sort of light to your shrouds?"
You may answer, "well yes, but not really practical".
Bingo, you just became 50% at fault, & if you have more money than the other guy, expect them to try & find you much more at fault.
I was once required to attend a board hearing into the case of a pilot who took off from an isolated snow covered field, (in the NWT of Canada)with a full moon, in -33 weather, but non functioning runway lights. His defense was pretty good, his passengers were in danger due to the elements, & the conditions were such that any hazards could easily be seen & therefore he exhibited good airmanship & his actions were prudent.
Tough titty for the kitty... he was found to have contravened an air reg regarding the requirement for runway lights after the end of civil twilight, fined & subject to the suspension of license.
Now I'm not saying the guys on a small lake that never see a boat, or anyone else must or shall attach lights, do as you see fit. I'm just saying as in sex, protect yourself. It's all about risk management.



edited by: Edchris177, Sep 10, 2010 - 01:44 PM

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Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
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Quote

Scott when are we going to start our own regatta?

Not so sure about night regattas on Lake Michigan..... Kevin, I keep my boat in Wilmette. Haven't seen a Cat regatta there yet, but lots of boats to sail around with on our beach. Where are you located?

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Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
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I'm in st. john, and i trailer my boat to Gary. there is a "small sailboat only" ramp. there is also the perfect definition of this website at the dunes here. about 100 catamarans pulled up on the beach. but usually 2-3 cats out tops over a lot of water. are there any good ramps on the north side?

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Nacra 6.0 NA
Ogden Dunes, IN
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