Took my H18 out on my first solo. I weigh about 280 and do not trap since I havent found a harness to fit!

Wind was around 10, gusts up to 15. Some white caps. I was on a beam reach as I have read this is the fastest point of sail for my boat. Jib was fully sheeted, jib traveler about 1/2 way back. Main was fully sheeted and the traveler was all the way in. Outhaul pulled as much as I could.

I was moving good! Flying the hull for the first time. Ive only had the boat for 3 months. A little puff came along and pushed me over.

I was a bit surprised that the boat would go over with my weight. I was not interested in pinching into the wind, I wanted to see what she would do - guess I found out.

Should I not have been on this point of sail without trapping? It just seems odd that the boat would go over in that amount of wind. What did I do wrong? Do you sail solo in that kind of wind on a beam reach?

Could not right the SOB either...again with my weight I would have thought it would snap out of the water. I did have the jib furled in about half way....gotta change the stock jib cleat - it blows. Main was uncleated and sheet was sheet was loosened a lot. Had to get help from a power boat who assisted with righting it. Then the jib loosened, it turned away from the wind and took off!! I held on to the main with dear life and did a horizontal rope climb as the boat was moving rapidly away. I was somewhere between pissed and laughing at what a spectale this had to be. By the time I got to the boat I was too tired to hoist my big rear onto the boat. So I just had the nice power boaters drag me and my boat to the nearest shore. Furled the jib, lowered the main and had them tow me back to the ramp. Man that blows.

Other than going out with a crew that could trap what should I have done differently?



edited by: sailinagin, Aug 20, 2010 - 11:55 PM

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David
Memphis, TN
'84 Hobie 18
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1. if you want to solo a 2 man cat you really need to be hooked up to the trap and have cat-like reflexes. the issue isn't so much as slow-moving static weight as a fast moving weight

2. at all times on a cat, sailing across the wind is the most dangerous angle to be. it is often called the "zone of death", this goes double when you are soloing a 2-man boat, and maybe triple if you are soloing a 2-man boat without trapeze and hunting for speed...

3. going upwind when a gust hits you can de-power very quickly by jerking the rudder upwind, or you can release thw sheet to spill air from the main

4. going downwind you can get much more bow buoyancy/stability by steering downwind

5. reaching you can do neither, you can only dump sheet, so you'd better not have the sheet cleated or you'll never get it dumped quick enough to save the deathroll

6. righting - isn't just weight, it's also positioning of the boat mast into wind or even better at 45degrees to the wind and getting as much of your weight as possible as far from the boat as possible. many people end up just hanging like a sack of potatoes only a few feet from the hull. need to be almost parallel to the water and just above it with your head 5foot from the hull

7. weight - once the boat is coming up you need to not get killed by the falling hull and dolphin-striker, but staying away is not an option as you need to be between the hulls and right next to the dolphin striker as the hull splashes down so you can grab and hang from the dolphin-striker to stop the boat rolling over the other side. then as so as the boat has stabilised in an upright position you need to get over that front beam very quickly to take control of the rudder and sails before it sails away from you

think fast chin-up, then leg over hull, then pull and roll onto tramp

it's a speccy sport that few are game to get into because of the risks, they can minimized but not eliminated

suggest reading a good beachcat sailing book over the winter, "catamaran racing for thr 90's" is perfect for a hobie18

i tend to stay on a close reach/haul for hull flying so you can head up quickly. i also keep the main sheet in my hand at all times with no slack in it to the block. any slack will be to slow to help. make sure you keep main, jib, and travelor lines clear at all times. even if you and crew are on traps the boat will flip with a slow response. you don't have to dump the main all the way, just a foot or so will ease pressure(you will get a feel for this). the combination of heading up and easing main sheet should keep you out ot the drink, a beam reach puts you in no mans land for pointing up or down quickly so keep your main sheet ready at all times. as far as getting that big body back on the boat, that will take some practice. good luck!

--
Check out "Prindle Sailors" on Facebook!
bill harris
hattiesburg, mississippi
prindle 16- "BLUE RIBBON"
--

erice

2. at all times on a cat, sailing across the wind is the most dangerous angle to be. it is often called the "zone of death", this goes double when you are soloing a 2-man boat, and maybe triple if you are soloing a 2-man boat without trapeze and hunting for speed...

Lesson learned...and thanks. I do normally have crew but no one could go. Too bad because it was a perfect day. I did have the boat pointed in the right direction for righting but I think the key problem was my righting line needs to be redone - I could not lean out more than about 30 degrees. So at 6' 3" and 280 nothing doing....

Thanks coastrat, good words. I had the main sheet in my hand and tight. Tried to dump the wind but no luck. Makes sense that on a beamer you dont leave yourself with many goods options to get out of the death roll.

Nevertheless it was a blast!! Good wind again today....got crew? Yeeee Haaaaaaa!

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David
Memphis, TN
'84 Hobie 18
--

I solo a 2 man boat,(Nacra 5.7) quite a bit, & I only weigh 175. If you are on a beam reach & traveler centered, you are experiencing the max tipping force possible. Travel out, remember you want good airflow on both sides of the sail, you will get as good a speed with less heel.
Unless you are on a wire, you are giving up alot of counter force. Even with my daughters measly 115 lbs on the wire, it is surprising how much more power you can handle without swimming.
Tip your boat over, toss the righting line over the hull, then mark where you need hand grips. I use a 5/8" line with simple stopper knots as grips. You need grips positioned that let you get horizontal.
The first thing I do is swim the mast around. With winds of 10 kts put the mast almost directly into the wind. You want the wind to get under the sail, & start lifting. With stronger winds, get the wind at a 45* angle, or the boat might flip over the other side if you are not quick enough to grab the DS bar as it comes upright.
You need to do the equivalent of a push up, on your toes, body straight from toe to top of head. The further out,(straighter) you are the greater the leverage. I stand my tip toes on the keel of the hull, & hike out totally horizontal, holding the line near my neck, that gets my arms further out than if I held it at my waist. You want to be just a few inches above the water, not hanging like a sack as Pete alluded to.
Using this method I righted my 5.7 the other day by myself, WITHOUT using a bag. My heavier brother was with me, I had him swim the mast around, (25 mph wind). As he was swimming around to help me,I hiked out to show him what we were going to do. The bloody boat came up in just a few seconds. I always used a bag to give my skinny 175 lbs some help, but in this wind it came right up. I sealed the mast & only about 3-4' are below water.




edited by: Edchris177, Aug 21, 2010 - 12:09 PM

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

Way ta go EC, sounds like you got your righting technique nailed! Most 16-18 cats can be righted if you are over about 200+lbs with a few notable exceptions, but it is always an adventure with less weight than that.

David, you really have to be prepared when on a reach. The Main Sheet should be uncleated and you need to trim for the puffs constantly. My lake has very swirly and gusty winds due to the surrounding hills and I can dump it easily on a reach even with over 400 lbs on the boat, main only and moderate winds. Even just hiking out helps alot, but you stll need to be constantly trimming the main.

Rick White's book "Catamaran Racing for the 90's" is the bible and most the information you could ever want in it but it assumes you are an intermediate sailor. If you are a beginner get that book but also get one of the more basic books to help you out. I have "Catamaran Sailing: from Start to Finish" by Phil Berman and "The Catamaran Book" by Brian Phipps and found both to be really helpful for a beginner with very little sailing experience up to the intermediate sailor. Brian Phipps books is really nice because it has lots of pictures in it!

--
Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Thanks guys! Went again, with crew today. Winds were over 15 and gusting to 20+. It was a great day. Flew the hull for the first time using coastrats technique. Started by pinching the wind a bit on a close reach then eased away from the wind til she came up with my son on the wire. Dagger board tip was skimming along the water. What a blast.

EC thanks for the righting advice. I clearly need a longer righting line.

I sailed a Force 5 for about 6 years back in the day but other than renting cats occasionally this is my first beachcat. I'll surely get the book.

Thanks again guys!!

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David
Memphis, TN
'84 Hobie 18
--

What no videos or photos.

I use a righting pole on my 5.8. Faster than rigging a bag and at 190lb I can right the boat by myself.

No vids or photos to prove the moment... but it was a great one. Even though my 21 yr old son was having fun before, the sailing "hook" was set for sure after that. He has the bug now.

--
David
Memphis, TN
'84 Hobie 18
--

David,
in the OP you seem surprised she would go over, yet you were flying a hull..

Anytime you are flying a hull that means you have almost no reserve "righting force" and are in fact balancing (righting and tipping forces) on a razor edge. Just a tiny change in either is enough to upset that delicate balance. If you are already hiked out to the max you can only change heading or sheeting so you need to be really alert and react instantly to any gusts, even the tiny ones...or don't be surprised when you dump the boat next time!

Wolf, that was the only time,(out of 5 dumps this year) that I righted it by myself, without an aid. I attribute the strong wind that day as my ace in the hole. On calmer days, I just can't get the mast to leave the water.
I like SKARRS idea of the pole. I have never used one, but watching videos it seems like the quickest thing if you are solo. I didn't want to spend the money for the set up that attaches to the DS, & I don't have dagger boards, so I can't use the ones you slide into the well.
Take Coastrat & Dennis advice. If it is really blowing, I consider it a good day for pointing. You can still get some fun speed, & can quickly head up the 10-20 degrees & dump wind. Ièm certainly not an expert, but I practiced my hull flying on close reaches. Instead of easing the mainsheet, then having to haul it back in, you can steer your way to a constant hull fly. Head up as the boat goes to 45*, then ease it back downwind as the hull drops. You will learn that gentle is good, & results in mile long runs. Realize that won't win races, your speed is better with the hull just at the top of the water, but it looks cool, & it's fun.

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

sailinagin,

Glad your out and getting back into it. From reading your posts and the questions you ask - your way ahead of the curve man. Enjoy your time on the water - the guys here always give great advice.

Don't forget to dump both sheets (and maybe traveler) prior to righting. She can't sail off too far if there is no sheet! Also standing on the rear end of the hull will result in the boat turning into the wind. May be better than swimming the mast and prevent a turtle!



edited by: lifeteammedic, Sep 20, 2010 - 04:32 PM

i have a small list of items required to right my cat:
1. set my anchor - this makes sure i am bows into the wind
2. take my main blocks off the boom
3. either furl my jib/ or center it by pulling both sides of the line. this will help get wind under the jib (to help right it) and will prevent it from filling with air and taking off after the righting.
4. pull out BOTH righting bags... and get out on the line (ps i find it helpfull to put a loop in my righting line so i can hook onto it with my harness

on another note: on a reach, i would probably travel out to contain the helling motion of a gust.

I started cat sailing this summer and have the same weight as
yours, mine is a Prindle 18-2 witch is a 2-person cat also.
Went over a couple of times and I learned a lot.
1- practice righting in light weather, make sure you can climb onboard by yourself ( specially with our weight)Bare in mind you are really tired when the cat is up again in rougher conditions and practice it a lot...
2- The righting line shold be twice the lenght of the cat, also tie big loops in it so you can hook your trapeze-hook in it, the loops should be big enough to put your foot in it as a climbaboard aid.
3- a quick mainsheetblock release (see my pictures), so your boat wouldn't run away from you.
4- a jib-furler , I don't have it but it wil be there asap.
as for now I do the jibsheet sheeting in the midle tric as MN3 describes
5- Climbing-aids at the transom , I braided a pair of thick
lines with a loop in the aft trampoline tension-lines.Can pull them out when needed.

Allways have the mainsheet uncleated and when solo, let it go a few inches in a gust, sheet it in there-after, steering up in a gust wil get you nowhere in a sense of pointing to a mark.
it's a learning curve. I am stil strugling , but I like it!!


--
Tornado (80's Reg White)
Prindle 18-2 (sold)
Dart 16 (hired and hooked)
13 mtr steel cutter (sold)
Etap 22, unsinkable sailing pocket cruiser.

Amsterdam, the Netherlands
--

I found a nice side effect in using righting bag: when you climb on the cat after righting, you still tow that heavy bag which works as sea anchor. So you turn downwind and go SLOW even in 25+kts and have time to sort out lines and stuff on the boat. Then pull it up on the tramp and off you go.

"standing on the rear end of the hull will result in the boat turning into the wind"

funny but on mine its the other way around! I stand on the bows and this blows the sterns downwind until the mast and bows are facing into the wind.
I have a Nacra 5.2 BTW.

ADixon

I found a nice side effect in using righting bag: when you climb on the cat after righting, you still tow that heavy bag which works as sea anchor. So you turn downwind and go SLOW even in 25+kts and have time to sort out lines and stuff on the boat. Then pull it up on the tramp and off you go.

That sound's pretty cool, does it matter what type of righting bag you have to do that?

--
Tyler holmes
Panama city, FL

Boat whore
--

dennisMe

"standing on the rear end of the hull will result in the boat turning into the wind"

funny but on mine its the other way around! I stand on the bows and this blows the sterns downwind until the mast and bows are facing into the wind.
I have a Nacra 5.2 BTW.

I completely agree.. its the bows you stand on to rotate into the wind (unless you are turtles and trying to get it on its side)

ADixon

I found a nice side effect in using righting bag: when you climb on the cat after righting, you still tow that heavy bag which works as sea anchor. So you turn downwind and go SLOW even in 25+kts and have time to sort out lines and stuff on the boat. Then pull it up on the tramp and off you go.

If your boat is on anchor (thats the first thing i do when i capsize), you should weatherbane into the wind.. and wont take off. if you aren't on anchor and your boat is moving (even a little) it will be increadably hard to pull a righting bag up... it is pretty slow going to pull up a bag even on anchor (not moving).

PS the trick to get the bag out of the water (filled with 150lbs of water) is to work the bag upsidedown and pull it out by the bottom

PPS BE SURE to tie a stopper knot at the end of the righting bag line.... otherwise ... when you right the boat.. and get back on board you have a great chance of losing your bag and line

Tyler,
I use the biggest bag Murrays sells, no modifications.
MN3,
you are right about pulling the bag. I turn upwind for a moment to get it, when I am ready. Before that the boat feels a lot more stable when dragging it downwind for awhile, instead of pointing upwind and being at mercy of gusts, pushing the boat back, jamming rudders to one side and violently moving main with the blocks flying around. Sometinmes main sheet gets wrapped around the blocks and soloing you don't have enough hands to sort this out. On downwing cource those blocks area under load and straight. BTW, I am talking here about strong winds, when all this really matters.

Quote

Sometinmes main sheet gets wrapped around the blocks and soloing you don't have enough hands to sort this out. On downwing cource those blocks area under load and straight. BTW, I am talking here about strong winds, when all this really matters.

Gotcha.

i have had my main not only wrap around my blocks, but also around my hiking stick somehow (lines do crazy things when floating). of course at this time, everything went wrong and i was sailing away right towards a pier. i couldn't sheetout or steer... i finally got it sorted out about 3 seconds before impact.

this is another reason i always release my anchor first (doesn't always seat, but if i let it drop slowly it has a good chance)

Ahha, now we talk about same things
But what do you call "anchor"?

Quote

But what do you call "anchor"?

????

Dennis, I was thinking about what you said re standing on bows. Once, in a good blow, it didn't matter what I did the boat never turned, other times I have stood on the stern, & once on the bows to get it to turn into wind. I'm not sure if it depended upon where the wind was in relation to the bows. They do swim around much easier than I thought. Maybe I need to dump much more often & take time to experiment with this:-o
I agree with using the bag as sea anchor, in any wind the boat will drift pretty good once upright. I let it drag til I get stuff sorted out, as Andre said, solo you don't have enough hands to take care of everything.
I have a strap sewn along the bottom of my bag for strength. I had a 2' length of 1" nylon strap(like your PFD webbing) sewn to this strap at the bottom edge of the bag. You just give this strap a pull & it capsizes the bag, a kid can the pull it right up. If I changed it I would use a length of 1/4" floating line, bright color, as the retrieval line.



edited by: Edchris177, Sep 21, 2010 - 06:44 PM

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--