We have a wooden tent on a 350 acre lake in central MA (Lake Machaug). There is a stone wall between the house and the lake with shallow steps breaking through the stone wall.

The lake is pretty shallow, average depth is 13 feet.

Our property is at the North end of the lake and the prevailing wind is from the West or Southwest.

I'm not an experienced sailor. Self taught on a Super Snark. While that's fun, it's not something I want to take my young grandchildren (yes, I am that old) on. I'm more than willing to pay for cat sailing lessons.

I've been researching and searching for reasonable cats that will work for me and my new son-in-law. I'd like something that can be sailed solo by either of us, but wouldn't be overwhelmed if we crewed together (combined weight ~425#).

What I have found locally are:

Sol Cat 18 -- $800
1979 Prindle 15 -- $1000
Alpha 18 -- $1300

The Prindle is said to be ready to sail. The Sol Cat has a cracked hull (which appears to be readily repairable). The Alpha has been disassembled and needs new dagger boards, but is otherwise said to be in excellent condition.

I think the Alpha and Sol Cat are more boat than I need. I'm concerned that the Prindle is a bit too small.

Advice, please.

Matthew

Matthew

welcome to cat sailing, the extreme sport for sailing enthusiasts. First of all how much do you weigh, and how much weight will the cat be carrying with all the grandkids on? The reason we ask this question is because some catamarans have higher volume hulls than others. If you were to park a Prindle 16 next to a Hobie 16, you would be quite amazed at the difference in hull size, higher volume hulls carry more weight comfortably.

That being said, the P15 might just be the boat for you, keep in mind though that the mast will be around 22'-24' tall, something to think about when the average depth of your lake is only 13'.

Your other option would be to take a closer look at the Hobie roto-molded multi-hulls such as the Bravo, or the Wave, not so readily available but smaller, high volume hulls can carry more weight, easier to learn to sail on, bullet-proof, and forgiving. The Bravo can carry 400 lbs at just 12 ' long and the Wave 800 lbs at 13' long. check them out at http://www.hobie.com.

Just something else to think about>


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TurboHobo
H14T
H16
P18
G-Cat 5.0
P16
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I suggest buying something that is ready to sail. Repairs aren't tough, and god knows you'll make a ton of'm if you keep sailing a cat, but I don't think it should start as a project.

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Rob
OKC
Pile of Nacra parts..
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P-15 IS A SOLO BOAT....it doesn't do well with 2 people.

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Check out "Prindle Sailors" on Facebook!
bill harris
hattiesburg, mississippi
prindle 16- "BLUE RIBBON"
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Scratch the Hobie Bravo, it is more of a kids boat. I rented one for 3 days before I bought a Nacra, it is very narrow & just to small for 2 adults, & we are not "large" adults. 400 lbs may be the legal limit you can carry on it, but it won't be faster than a small mono hull with that weight. My old Bombardier 16' Invitation would beat the Bravo, no matter who was sailing it.
The Wave is far more boat. My wife & sailed one for 4 days in Barbados, tons of fun in a good wind, but being only 13' it simply has to suffer if you put 450 lbs on it. It is durable, very tough, but small enough to be easily moved over the breakwall.
The downside of getting a real performance cat is the size of your lake. 350 acres is only a 1/2 sq mile, I see your lake is about a mile long, with a west wind you have beam reach, a performance Cat will eat that up in a couple of minutes. You would barely get someone out on the wire & it would be time to gybe. If that doesn't bother you, look at a Prindle 16 or such. Unless you are handy & enjoy "projects" I suggest a boat that is ready to sail. Before any purchase figure out how you are going to get it over the wall, if it turns out to be a large undertaking, the boat won't get used much.
Don't worry about the depth, put a float on the mast head,(many newer Hobies come with it)& it won't turtle. The bay I'm on is only 8-16', I don't get deep water till I clear the point. I've stuck my mast in the mud 3 times, it comes out pretty easy, just swim out & wash it off before you right the boat.



edited by: Edchris177, Sep 18, 2010 - 10:32 AM

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

Thanks for the prompt and informative replies.

I'm not looking for extreme performance. Flying a hull would probably be the result of a bad decision. We seldom have significant wind speed, perhaps three or four weekend days a season. I'm really looking for something that is stable, easy to sail in light winds and can carry two adults and up to three small children safely.

I now have a line on a Prindle 16 that is being actively sailed. Unfortunately, the boat is 2 1/2 hours away and the seller doesn't have a trailer.

I have a full sized pickup truck, but I don't think I can cram the boat into my horse trailer. Any ideas?

Matthew

sounds like a p16 would be perfect

full sized pickup and horse trailer should be enough if the boat is broken down, the mast is the most difficult bit, i made some wooden brackets to keep the mast track down and now it goes on my roof rack without bouncing around

when I bought my prindle 16 I didn't have a trailer. I rented a Uhaul trailer. First time I got the 6' x 12', but the 2nd time I got the 5' x 8' which was better. The hulls fit right over the sides perfectly. I just placed the boat on top length wise. I used furniture pads to protect the hulls and straps with ratchets to tie it down. The mast was secured to the boat and the top of my car racks. I just had to tie the mast in such a way that it would rotate when I went around turns. I drove it 50 miles that way no problem. Could have kept on going for hours.


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Scott
1982 Nacra 5.2 "Great White"
Ledbetter Beach, Santa Barbara, CA
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Just remember not to suck those ratcheting straps down to tight. They can generate lots of tension & crack a hull. You want padding, even multiple layers of cardboard will do, & snug, no more.d

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

Thanks, again, for all the information.

I touched a P 16 today. It was really a parts boat. It has been parked for ~10 years under a tree. I found it while searching for a trailer. The trailer was a disaster, home made, rusty, falling apart, no lights, no title, 10" wheels, not something I would trust ...

The sailboat was fine as long as you intended to part it out. There were a couple of very bad Fiberglas repairs. I could do better with my limited experience. The mast is straight and the rudders seemed to lock/unlock pretty well. All of the blocks I looked at were Harken.

I could not believe that most of the lines I looked at were cotton clothes lines, so far as I could tell. Is this normal?

If I end up buying a sail-able p16, I might get this one for parts.

Can anyone decode this Hull ID:

SUR05852M8 ...

It trails off under a really bad Fiberglas repair. The owner admits backing into a building with the starboard hull. For some reason, he thinks that may be why it leaks. The plug threads have been filled in with poorly cured Fiberglas resin.

I'll post pictures, once I figure out how.

Matthew

Here is the info on HIN SUR
http://www.uscgboating.org/recalls/mic_detail.aspx?id=SUR

You have ommitted the last few digits of the HIN, The final 8 means it's an '80???, next digit will give exact year.
The final letter gives month. Go to bottom of this thread to
decode letter.
http://www.thebeachcats.com/module-forum-viewtopic-topic-12102.html

Here is how to post pictures
http://www.thebeachcats.com/module-forum-viewtopic-topic-11075.html

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

I have uploaded the pictures I took.

Matthew

Those photos don't help much,to far away, only the HIN pic is detailed enough. Take high res pics from up close. Don't try to get the entire boat in, use numerous shots. (i.e. Take 3 or 4 of just the rudder from different angles.) It may take 10 pics to cover the boat, then retake them all from different angles.
This way you, (and others can blow them up & see details that don't appear in a whole boat shot. By adding different angles you will be amazed how much more info is available.
I would try bending back those broken pieces of gelcoat & see if you can get the last number, even a partial number may eliminate some others.
If you can get it for really cheap, it may make a good parts boat. Some stuff you don't need might be sold here for enough to recoup the cost of the boat.



edited by: Edchris177, Sep 24, 2010 - 06:34 AM

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

i wouldn't worry about a parts boat unless you know your gonna need one... and if you need a parts boat, i wouldn't buy that boat that does.

I agree that a bravo probably isn't the right choice for more than 1 person, but a gateway may be the perfect boat for you...
VERY durable, easy to sail, hard to get overpowered, front tramp for kids, wings (seats) for adults... etc

I second a Getaway if only for the part you said about sailing with grand children. Much more comfortable for passengers. Another boat with wings might also be good though

--
Dustin Finlinson • Magna, UT
Member: Utah Sailing Association
1982 Prindle 18
1986 Hobie 17
1982 Prindle 16
1980 Prindle 16(mostly)
1976 Prindle 16(mostly)
Check out "Prindle Sailors" on Facebook.
--

I have a fully expressed "nothing succeeds like excess" gene I also have the room to take it apart and store the reusable bits. It needs too much (all wires, lines, tramp, rudder push-rod, fibre-glas repairs etc. for me to take on as a project. I haven't seen the sails and the owner probably hasn't seen them since he parked the boat.

None of the vehicles in those shots run and there are more you can't see in similar shape. That says a lot about my interest in this boat.

The boat is more than an hour away and I'm unlikely to want to deal with it unless I end up buying something that could use the parts. In that case, I would be more than happy to post links to some 14MP shots.

It has a straight mast, which might come in handy on a shallow lake. The rudders also look to be in good shape.

I have seen a few Hobie Getaways for sale, but they aren't cheap. I was thinking of trying something less expensive that I could sell at a small loss if I needed something else.

Matthew

I've got a line on yet another Prindle 16. It has been sailed regularly for the last two years and comes with a registered trailer (meaning one that might be roadworthy). It is being offered for mid three figures.

It lacks a jib. I have yet to find out if that means the sail is missing (medium dollars) or that it needs a full jib with rigging (more than medium dollars)

One might take on the idea of a completely new jib, with rigging, as a modest project. What would you do if you had this problem/opportunity?

On another front. Is it safe to leave one of these boats in the water for a season or should I continue with my 4" PVC pipe manual boat lift design?

Matthew

Matt, keep doing research, Craigslist, Kijiji, here at Beachcats.com & get a feel for a Prindle 16 goes for. Call Dan Berger (has ads on this site, is alsways selling boats/parts) he could probably give you good advice on cost, what to look for.
As you have waterfront, I wouldn't care much about the trailer. I used my trailer exactly once, to move the boat from place of purchase to the cottage. It now just takes up space.
I would build some sort of lift. Cats have no mooring cleats & were never meant to be left in the water. I've left mine on my dock for a few days,(with some mods to make tying it easy) in calm conditions. I would never leave it tied up in a blow. You need to tie off from the bridles wires, or front beam, so it can pivot into the wind, & the rudders tend to bang around.
An easy system, if you have some shoreline to sacrifice, is to make 2 ramps, say a 2x8, with 2x4 screwed to the sides, so as to make a channel. Tie the ends together with a rod, so they stay the width of your hulls & use weight to sink the water end. Then slide the boat up onto shore, just above the wave level. A guy on the island across from me does this with an H16, leaves it on a 45* angle as the shore is steep. Works great for draining hulls too.



edited by: Edchris177, Sep 26, 2010 - 05:58 PM

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

Can I put my $.02 in? I agree with Edchris: keep looking! The perfect boat for you is out there, just keep looking 'till you find it.
My vote for you is a Getaway...Yes they're expensive, but they also hold their value well. With just a little care, I think if you needed to you could sell it and get all your money back. They are also very stable, have wing seats for comfort, enormous hull volume (carry lots of folks) and the rotomolded plastic is just about indestructable. They arn't racers, but are way faster than all but the wildest monohulls. Good luck!

--
Repairable P18
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Is there any reason I shouldn't consider a Prindle 18? I have space to leave the mast up when the boat is not in use over the summer.

I've looked at a couple of Prindle 16 project/parts boats (a bit scary), but I've now got a line on a Prindle 18 in good shape with trailer in my price range. Giving up on going solo will bother my son-in-law more than it will bother me.

Matthew

Quote

Is there any reason I shouldn't consider a Prindle 18?

Here is the deal: you could probably learn and do fine on a p18, BUT it has lots of control lines all over the place (if fully rigged with 4way jib adjuster and barberhauler) and that is not great for crew (esp kids). it also is a powerful enough of a boat to get in trouble when the wind kicks up. since It really does take a few years to learn and understand how to handle and depower a catamaran and you are talking about taking kids out... it may not be the best choice.

MOST used cats level out and keep their value. I bought a H16 and sold it for the same exact amount 6 years later. I bought a H18 and sold it for more than i bought it for (granted i got it for a song)....

so no matter what you get, as long as it doesnt explode.. its a fairly stable investment (assuming you dont buy new)

I pulled the trigger on this one

http://www.thebeachcats.c…871-prindle-18-sold.html

I'll be picking it up on the 24th. It needs some work (what used boat doesn't?), but it isn't a project.

I should have it in the water in May.

Matthew

nice pick up! you can't go wrong with the trusty p-18...rugged, simple, fast enough and plenty of prindle sailors out there to help not to mention parts readily available. download a copy of the owners manual first off. the learning curve for the rudders is the most tricky part but if you balance the helm just like the manual says they work great. there is extensive post on the rudder systems on this site if you search. now just brace yourself for the longest winter ever waiting to get on the water with it!

--
Check out "Prindle Sailors" on Facebook!
bill harris
hattiesburg, mississippi
prindle 16- "BLUE RIBBON"
--

congrtats!
looks very nice

I'll post pictures of my own once I have it.

Matthew

I got it home from New Jersey without any serious incident (note to self, don't take a trailer you have never towed before across the George Washington Bridge).

It was too dark to take pictures when I got home and its too dark to take any this morning. I hope to post a portfolio this weekend.

Matthew

I have posted the first set of pictures:

http://www.thebeachcats.c…ictures/?g2_itemId=77506

The cat was probably good enough to sail as it sat, but I've got the winter to work on it, so I decided to make a project out of it.

It is scarily easy to take apart. I'm used to working on old cars, tractors and implements. I usually have to do some pretty creative things to take old joints apart. This was a piece of cake. I reserve comment about putting it back together until I have had that experience

Comments and suggestions welcomed.

Matthew

Hey Matt, I acquired a P18 recently, looking at your pics I noticed that your rudders have the very same problem as mine, where the up-haul line connects, the rudder(s) seem to swell open and split on the seam. I guess this is a recurring Prindle problem, goint to have to fill that seam with resin, tricky one as the hole for the up-haul line has to be kept open when pouring resin. Anyone got any suggestions on what to use.

By the way, how much did you get your P18 for?

--
TurboHobo
H14T
H16
P18
G-Cat 5.0
P16
--

turbohobo

Hey Matt, I acquired a P18 recently, looking at your pics I noticed that your rudders have the very same problem as mine, where the up-haul line connects, the rudder(s) seem to swell open and split on the seam. I guess this is a recurring Prindle problem, goint to have to fill that seam with resin, tricky one as the hole for the up-haul line has to be kept open when pouring resin. Anyone got any suggestions on what to use.

By the way, how much did you get your P18 for?

I paid the asking price plus the cost of driving to Trenton:

http://www.thebeachcats.c…871-prindle-18-sold.html

LOL, the asking price was "best offer"? I picked up mine for $600, gas was about $200 and a new tramp was just over $300. Will check out the trailer this winter to see if it need new bearings, but so far everything looks good. Will convert existing jib into a furling jib for next season, cheers bubba.

--
TurboHobo
H14T
H16
P18
G-Cat 5.0
P16
--

turbohobo

LOL, the asking price was "best offer"? I picked up mine for $600, gas was about $200 and a new tramp was just over $300. Will check out the trailer this winter to see if it need new bearings, but so far everything looks good. Will convert existing jib into a furling jib for next season, cheers bubba.

My previous response must have disappeared.

I paid $875 for the boat and trailer and about $125 in gas and tolls to go get it. I've already ordered $50 worth of replacement parts, and committed $100 to having the tramp restitched. I expect to pay another $100 for tools and parts for the boat, the trailer will probably require $100 in lights, bearings and sail tube.

I expect to spend ~$100 on epoxy and $200 on Wearlon paint for the hulls and rudders. I haven't figured out what the topside repairs will cost, yet.

Matthew