Ok let me rephrase that, how do you go about tightening the tramp on a hobie? It looks like you just untie the lacing in the middle and pull on it to tighten it up, is that about right? Any special knot needed when securing it back?
Thanks



edited by: av8erdunn, Sep 25, 2010 - 06:47 PM

Anyone?

Hi Jeremy,

I have not done this yet, but I have heard of someone (he runs this website) that has designed a T handle with slots in the bottom of the T for the rope to fit thru. He will use the leverage of the T to twist the rope around the vertical leg of the T and tigten the bajesus out of the line!

I just looked at mine and there were stopper knots (figure 8's) at the mid front and mid back then at the lip of the hull on the port and starboard inboard sides.

Hope this helps some.

--
David
Memphis, TN
'84 Hobie 18
--

You have to work from one grommet to the next, pull each section hard, then hold tension on the line as you go to the next section. I think if you search long enough on this forum there is a post on a simple "rope wrench" that is pretty easy to make. I'm sure I saw it here somewhere.
I just used a pair of vice grips & a pair of pliers. Thread the line through all the grommets, then using pliers/v-grips work from one end to the other. It is also easy to do with one set of pliers, but the v-grips allow you lock onto the line just above a grommet. You can then let go & the line cannot pull the grips through the grommet, so things stay tight while you rearrange line, have a beer whatever. Another way is to use a tool, take a couple of wraps around a rough rod, or a square stick (with sharp edges). The line will hold on the tool, & it gives you a better handhold to pull with more force. I've also used the cam cleat from my righting bag(doesn't work as well with slippery line). It was easy to hold the block & cleat, pull hard, & the cam cleat held the line, but made it easy to slide the system further along.
The line may be to short to thread all the grommets til you get tension in the line. Once you get 1/2 done you will "free up" more line, & the V-grips will lock it for you while you thread the last few holes.
Spend a bit more money & buy a hi tech line with little stretch & no creep. Very low creep is important, it will save you the hassle of tightening it again. The dyneema, vectran lines are very slippery, & don't hold knots well, but the slipperiness is your friend. IT makes it very easy to get the line very tight, as the line won't bind on the grommets.
Don't worry about any special knot, use whatever you would use to tie any line that you want to stay.
The slippery lines have a tendency to come undone, I think Philip told me that even "taping the snot out of them" wouldn't guarantee them. I solved that problem by laying the tail along a portion of the line under tension, then applying a zip lock. Fold the line back over itself & apply a second zip tie. Use fairly heavy duty ones,get them tight by using a pair of pliers to hold the locking mechanism, & another pair to put a good pull on the tail of the zip lock. The zip tie will compress into the line, & mine haven't moved a millimeter over the season.
I used a 1/4" dyneema blend, & never tightened the tramp the entire summer. the 1/4" was fine for the side lacing of the Nacra, but was a bitch to feed through the slugs on the rear beam, I bought it before wiser folks told me to go with 3/16.

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

The best method I've found it is to start with 1/8" dyneema line (thinner means it is easier to put more tension on and tighten and goes through the grommets much easier). I've used other lines up to 3/8" and the thin dyneema is just easier to tighten. Next I lace my tramp using the instructions in the Nacra Manual here:http://www.thebeachcats.c…pictures&g2_itemId=35260 this pattern (from the rear beam to the gromments, back and then across allows you to just simply reef on the cross piece of line really hard and then move to the next without losing tension. No tools needed.

I got my tramp super tight this year using this! I start on the right side with a bow line knot, tighten from right to left and put a couple of quick half hitches in and repeat undoing and redoing the half hitches on ever pass to take up the slack. 3 passes is enough to get the tramp as tight as you could ever want.

If you don't have a bias cut tramp and have lacing that goes front to back the procedure is similar for that lace but the lacing pattern is different shown here: http://www.thebeachcats.c…pictures&g2_itemId=35264 I really think the key is the thin dyneema line though.

--
Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
--

Quote

I think Philip told me that even "taping the snot out of them" wouldn't guarantee them.

Wasn't me Ed. The Dyneema would be perfect to use here, finished off with half hitches and started with half hitches or a bowline, which hold fine without slipping. I tie my spin bridals with the stuff, finished off with half hitches.

On the other hand, when I said "______ the snot out of" something, I was probably referring to greasing the beam bolts, dolphin striker bolts, etc. (i.e. "grease the snot out of them")

Dave, spot on!

--
Philip
--

Great, thanks for the advice. I am going to give it a try this week. As for the line I am using, its the line that came on the boat in '07 so I will not be changing it since its still in good shape.

av8erdunn

Ok let me rephrase that, how do you go about tightening the tramp on a hobie? It looks like you just untie the lacing in the middle and pull on it to tighten it up, is that about right? Any special knot needed when securing it back?
Thanksedited by: av8erdunn, Sep 25, 2010 - 06:47 PM

I use a cam cleat screwed to a 1x2 about 4 foot long.

Makes for a great grab of the line and quick and easy to release. The length allows me to put a foot on the boat to really crank down.

av8erdunn

Ok let me rephrase that, how do you go about tightening the tramp on a hobie? It looks like you just untie the lacing in the middle and pull on it to tighten it up, is that about right? Any special knot needed when securing it back?
Thanksedited by: av8erdunn, Sep 25, 2010 - 06:47 PM

You're right Dave, I was thinking about the side lacing. My line wasn't long enough to lace all the holes, & I was solo, so I got to the last 3 & had to secure the bitter end, while I went below to lace the last few.
I laced the rear as shown in the manual. 1/4" line was easy to get through the slugs the first time, but as you use their pattern you have to go through each slug twice, & the second pass I had to use a small flat screwdriver to push the end through. Of course it binds & the line scrunches up making it even harder to get through. I then did what you did, made 2 passes before final tying & zip tie.
I should have used thinner line.
The only advantage was when my traveler ate it, we really wanted to keep sailing so I tied the traveler line around the traveler mount, but the car hung up on the wrong side each tack. I was concerned the line would slip over the traveler mount, letting the car go, then jerk to a stop breaking something. We had to travel out a bit as the wind was such we couldn't hold the boat down double trapped. I ended up tying the line around the tramp lacing, probably not a good idea, as it could have ripped the slug out of the track, but it got us through 2 more days of 20+ kts.
I think I'll relace the rear with thinner line next spring, only a few more days to sail this season, haven't broken anything yet, though I made a few dumb*ss mistakes that require a small repair to the sail near the bolt rope, & one batten end replacement.

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

there is a hobie tool that makes tighning much easier too.. you can also make one yourself.

hmmm, that remind me, time to tighten my tramp too...

Just a note on line. I purchased some Paraloc Stingray line on clearance from Annapolis Performance Sailing for future tramp lacings, downhauls and halyards and am completely hooked! Most people here know how much of a line fanatic I am but this stuff is awesome!

Although I used Vale Vectrus this year to lace my tramp the stingray has some real advantages over the regular dyneema single braids. It is pure dyneema but isn't as slippery, really holds its round shape well instead of flattening, doesn't tend to fray and cleats great. 1/8" or 5/32 would be ideal for tramp lacing! The only downfall is that it is relatively expensive. Even on clearance the Paraloc Stingray is .57 per foot compared to .42 for the Yale Vectrus, not a big deal for the 16' or so you need to lace a tramp but costly for halyards.

I replaced all my small lines with it this year except the tramp lacing, next year the tramp will be laced with it!

--
Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
--

Using these i no longer need to crawl under the boat or on it to tension or remove the lacing. once to lace in the spring, that's it. these make the work much faster and EASIER. clicking slideshow or each picture will give a brief descrip of what is going on.when tensioning, using two at a time, start at front with long one then pull next lace with medium length then next lace with long one kinda "leap frogging" the pulls. as you move to the back of the boat then lose the long one and use medium and short then short only and your hand. amazing how much slack can be pulled out with these.
http://s599.photobucket.c…tt73/sepress/hobie%2018/

ingasguns

Using these i no longer need to crawl under the boat or on it to tension or remove the lacing. once to lace in the spring, that's it. these make the work much faster and EASIER. clicking slideshow or each picture will give a brief descrip of what is going on.when tensioning, using two at a time, start at front with long one then pull next lace with medium length then next lace with long one kinda "leap frogging" the pulls. as you move to the back of the boat then lose the long one and use medium and short then short only and your hand. amazing how much slack can be pulled out with these.
http://s599.photobucket.com/albums/tt73 ... obie%2018/

I cant get the link to work.

Here is a really great tip that worked so well I kicked myself for not doing it sooner. On Hobies, you tie off lacing line using a bowline knot then lace line from grommet to grommet in a "Z" pattern, what I did was use a double loop on the horizontal leg and stayed with a single loop on the diagonal. (The top and bottom of the "Z" are the horizontal, the joining line is the diagonal). What happens is the tension on the 2nd loop locks down on the 1st loop maintaining tension, as you have found out, the difficulty is not in creating tension, but in maintaining that tension as you move to the next loop. This worked so well for me, (too well in fact), that I had to go back and release tension a bit as I had a mesh tramp and you run the risk of too much torque, pulling the grommets out of the mesh.

Wear gloves when doing the lacing, start with bowline knot on 1st grommet, loop through 2nd grommet from top, instead of going down to 3rd grommet, loop back up through 1st grommet, down through 2nd grommet, down to 3rd grommet under tramp and up through 3rd grommet from underneath. Double loop between 3 & 4. Lace entire length of tramp loosely in this manner, the diagonal always under the tramp. Then go back to the 1st grommet and now crank on the tension between grommets 1 & 2, using the 2nd loop. 2nd loop locks down tension on 1st loop allowing you to move on to next double loop, repeat. You will have to maintain some tension in line between double loops but you will find that you will not suffer tension loss as with a single loop.

In effect, you're using 2:1 haul to create max tension, with the bonus that 2 lines through a single grommet have a lock-down effect. It worked so well for me that I used it to lace up the tramp on my P18 with most satisfying results.

Hope I explained this clearly, hope this method helps.

--
TurboHobo
H14T
H16
P18
G-Cat 5.0
P16
--

I will have to give that a try when I get her out next season.
Thanks

okay as you can see,,, i am very new to this site sorry.http://s599.photobucket.c…tt73/sepress/hobie%2018/



Edited by ingasguns on Nov 04, 2010 - 08:44 AM.

I learned a trick in the mid 70's from a New Zeland sailor that I still use today. He started by tightening the rear lacing first and used 2 sets of vise grips, this method takes 2 people. Rear lacing is in 2 pieces, start at one side using one set of vise grip to pull and the other to clamp off what you get. Do both side and repeat until it is a tight as you like. Then turn the boat on its side to do the middle lacing. Start at the front and use the same method, by pulling down you will have a lot more leverage, repeat until it is as tight as you like. I have never been able to get a tramp as tight by using any other method.

Really?? vise grips on a line???? yer kidding me???

NO I AM NOT KIDDING YOU, IT HAS WORKED FOR OVER 30 YEARS. YOU SHOULD NOT KNOCK WHAT YOU HAVE NEVER TRIED!

ingasguns

Really?? vise grips on a line???? yer kidding me???

not knocking it so much as, it just sounds like a really aggressive way to treat a line, that's all....

Consider the pressure and grip the cleats on the jib blocks and mainsheet blocks put on the jib and mainsheet when sailing in heavy air. I doubt that my pulling the line with vise grips could get any where close to that pressure. I am careful to clamp down with the full width of the vise grips and I also make sure that I am centered on the line when I do so. I have yet to damage a line although I might not use this method if I was reusing old tramp lacing. I find the most damage to tramp lacing is in the area of the grommets, which have a much sharper edge, the damage usually appears where the line is folded to return to the next grommet .

ingasguns

not knocking it so much as, it just sounds like a really aggressive way to treat a line, that's all....

Quote

Really?? vise grips on a line???? yer kidding me???

I know exactly what you are thinking, as that was what I thought at first. I grew up in the Rockies, where expensive line wasn't for boats, it was used in climbing to save your life. The act of merely stepping on a line was a sin requiring pennance. Grabbing a line with vice grips, well, if you want to be a pariah why not just break out the white pointy hats, or reprint copies of Mein Kampf.
Use your old grips, the ones with the teeth worn a bit smooth, or file them a we bit to take the sharp edges off. As long as you grab the entire width of the line & don't crank them down so hard they are hard to undo you will not cut any fibres. A moderate grip with pliers is enough to keep the line from slipping, the only reason to use V grips is the locking function, so you can let go & not loose the line.
Hullflyer must have gone off his meds, or is suffering from DSB, he is generally not that aggressive

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

I use the "UPTIGHT TRAMP TOOL" from Murrays. Works like a champ. Hand tighten all sections first, the use tool with a little bit of force once then repeat with a lot of force. Tightening a little bit the first time and really torking tight the second time will prevent pulling the grommets out. Jim.

TO HULLFLYER... i did not think of the cleating action in relation a vise grip. i am now certain that your method works well for you. i was in no way insulting your technique or success with it, it just kinda made me wonder.,...thus is the wonderful thing about being people. we all deal with problems, and our results are a culmination of our experiance, creativity, and tools at hand.

~~~ I've used an old pair of vise grips... Do a few holes, attach it to hold it tight, continue on down ETC ETC~~~

--
~ Vietnam Vet 69-71~ 17 Hobie w/big jib, ~18 Hobie mag,~DN Ice sailor,
and other toys.......
~~ I live in NY state on the north shore of Oneida lake in
Bernhards Bay. ~~~~~~
--