So I almost have everything to finish up the Prindle 18 with Hobie 18 Furler setup. I still need to actually shorten the extra forestay I have to become the furler forestay. I plan to keep my original setup just in case I need rig without it for some reason.

I have a little snag with the halyard. I am used to hook an ring setup for tensioning the downhaul on the jib but I don't thin that is going to work anymore because I will need tie the foot of the jib into the furler for it to work. I had planned on doing that with a shackle the pins through the hobie furler. If I cannot use a ring at the top then I will need to tension by pulling the sail up instead of down since the foot will be captive instead of the head. I have seen pictures here an there but can nvr find them easily when i want to. I did try to search through some back posts here but was not finding what i was looking for

I would appreciate an pics available and descriptions or ideas.

I did see this and wondered about the little attachment that ties the jib on one side an seems to have a cleat on the other. I looked online to try to find something like that i could buy but did not find it.


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Dustin Finlinson • Magna, UT
Member: Utah Sailing Association
1982 Prindle 18
1986 Hobie 17
1982 Prindle 16
1980 Prindle 16(mostly)
1976 Prindle 16(mostly)
Check out "Prindle Sailors" on Facebook.
--

Iretrofitted a setup like yours on my nacra 5.2. Works like this:

Above the head of the jib there is a swivel with a small block shackled under it. The jib halyard is a wire running through this block. The halyard has another small block at the bottom (once the jib is raised). The metal halyard has a slightly longer plaited line attached in a loop by simple bow lines.

To raise the jib I attach the metal halyard (the end without the block) to the head with a shackle. Because the halyard runs in a loop I then hoist the jib with the halyard loop running through the luff pocket and zip her up as I hoist. In the mean time, this brings the halyard (end with the small block attached) down almost to the tack.
Tack of the jib is now shackled to the forestay adjuster. I have a short piece of line attached to the same shackle. I run that line through the bullet block on the end of the halyard and into a small V cleat attached to the base of the forestay adjuster. This setup gives me 2:1 on the jib halyard and that proved to be enough for me to take the slack out of my forestay, the rest of the required luff tension will be provided indirectly by mainsheet tension.

Been using this setup for a couple of years, Idon't feel the need to change it so it must be good for my purposes.
Dennis

The only problem is there is no block shackled to the swivel and no wire halyard. I am not using the Hobie wire Hlyard system. The only thing hobie is the furling drum. Up top I have 2 options , mount the swivel to the hound the the upper forestay which had a pigtail for the jib halyard with a ring to set the hook on the halyard. Then tighten at the bottom by having a line from the foot of the jib act a a downhaul. This is how the mian works and how the jib was before the furler.

Option 2 is mount the upper forestay to the Hound then the swivel then the lower forestay. Ignore the pigtail and thrown a small block that is already part of the halyard on the ring and use the to raise. I will remove the hook and there will be nothing holding the jib up other than the tension of the halyard as it pulls up through the block then down to the bottom where I dvise the best way to cleat it off. In the the foot is secured via shackle to the Fuler.

Option 1 may not work because the foot is not tied to he furler. It may turn fin with the hook in the ring but it makes me nervous.

option 2 should work but I want to know what you guys do to secure the downhaul this way. Pics would helpful with descriptions. My halyard has sister clips to detach half at the bottom.

I have no interest is converting to a hobie style wire halyard.

--
Dustin Finlinson • Magna, UT
Member: Utah Sailing Association
1982 Prindle 18
1986 Hobie 17
1982 Prindle 16
1980 Prindle 16(mostly)
1976 Prindle 16(mostly)
Check out "Prindle Sailors" on Facebook.
--

Dustin, upper forestay connects to mast hound, then swivel, then lower forestay. Ideally, the lower forstay is almost the same length as the luff of the jib with just the closed end thimbles sticking out top and bottom. Secure jib to forestay using a shackle through the jib eyelet and then through the thimble, top and bottom, this attaches jib to forestay so that when the furler turns, the sail rolls up around forestay, otherwise forestay would spin inside jib luff. I kept my P18 jib, ordered a lower forestay with my P18 jib luff measurements, took out the small batton on jib, secured jib to forestay as above and jib furls fine. I used my original upper forestay with ring, the old setup will allow me to pull a sock up over jib for protection if I ever leave the cat mast up.

Turbo
P18



Edited by turbohobo on May 29, 2011 - 10:18 PM.

So in your setup your jib is permanently attached to the forestay when the mast is up with no halyard or way to raise or lower? You just leave it furled around the forestay when you lower the mast. I can see this working but I not sure it is the best way for me. Is boat on teh beach mast up for the season?

I trailer everywhere so really need to be able to raise and lower the jib. do you think it will still work with a shackle only at eh bottom?

--
Dustin Finlinson • Magna, UT
Member: Utah Sailing Association
1982 Prindle 18
1986 Hobie 17
1982 Prindle 16
1980 Prindle 16(mostly)
1976 Prindle 16(mostly)
Check out "Prindle Sailors" on Facebook.
--

Correct, the jib is "permanently" attached to the forestay, using shackles. I also trailer my P18 everywhere and use the forestay to step the mast, the jib is furled around forestay and I use a velcro strap to secure it, I use a carabiner to attach my jib blocks to the jib at the jib clew grommet. There is no need to raise and lower the jib when using a furler setup, you just furl the jib and it"s out of the way, not flapping in the wind. And yes, it is recommended to secure jib top and bottom.

When I get ready to pack the cat away at the end of the day, furl jib, secure with velcro strap which runs through jib clew grommet, disconnect jib blocks at the carabiner, step mast down, remove forestay/jib and trap wires, leave sail, jib and jib sheets to dry in the sun while I put everything away. I stow sail, jib/forestay in sailbag and it's ready for next time I go sailing.

Once you use a furler setup, it's hard to go back to the old style of raising and lowering the jib to get it out of the way, if at all possible, get with a cat sailor who has a furler setup and check it out, ask questions, I love my furler setup, ease of use, depowering when wind gets up, furling it when parked on a beach having lunch. The key to a furler setup is that the jib must be pinned/shackled/secured to the forestay head and tack, and the 2 become 1.

Mindpicture, you attach upper forestay to bell shackle at mast hound, you attach, swivel to bottom of upper forestay then attach lower forestay to bottom of swivel to complete your forestay, you have Hobie bridle wires with furler attached. Now you step the mast, how are you going to pin the forestay to the furler? if you are using old Prindle forestay turnbuckle could be a problem. Do you have a 10 hole stay adjuster on top of furler? In your case you want to use old Prindle jib halyard to raise jib and secure jib with hook and ring method, how do you plan to pin jib to forestay at the tack? using the adjuster? the tack of the jib stops at the turnbuckle. In this scenario a major factor to consider would be chafe, you would have to wrap the turnbuckle with electrician's tape to prevent chafe but also the forestay would chafe against the jib along the outside of the zipper pocket. You also used extra time to raise the jib, hook it to the ring on the upper forestay, pin jib somehow at the jib tack, far quicker if jib was already attached to forestay when you stepped the mast.

The only downside to a furler setup is the furler line which wraps around the spool, you have to adjust the line manually so that when you haul on the line the jib furls all the way before you run out of line, when disconnecting the furler from the bridle wires and packing furler away, this setting can become un-set and has to be re-set next sail. I use a Harken small boat furler and was able to drill a small pin hole on spool housing, I drop in a split pin and this secures the spool, keeps my setting, stops the line from unravelling when packed away, not too sure on the Hobie furler, might already have a pin hole and pin, dunno

Hope this helps you some Dustin

Turbo

ok so the idea is growing on me. The hobie furler has an adjuster that passes through the center of it so I don't think I will need the 10 hole. I will likely leave the turnbuckle on connected to this adjuster.

I have a p19 forestay I can shorten to size. You said you kept your upper as is and shortened the lower to the luff of the jib? How much do you think you took off?

My furler is a little different in that the drum is below the bridles. It is hard to explain unless you have seen the hobie furler. I will be connecting the same Prindle bridles to the hobie furler using shackles.

I can see the usefulness of having the jib always attached I will just have to buckle down and make a cover for it.

I am excited to get this going but nervous it's not gonna be right or have a problem with length or something. I will likely be shortening on my own (swager at west marine) or I have rigging guy in town tomorrow that might can help

--
Dustin Finlinson • Magna, UT
Member: Utah Sailing Association
1982 Prindle 18
1986 Hobie 17
1982 Prindle 16
1980 Prindle 16(mostly)
1976 Prindle 16(mostly)
Check out "Prindle Sailors" on Facebook.
--

I understand, we are creatures of habit and get comfortable, it's just a mind set. Here are my measurements:-

Original forestay measurement from turnbuckle to end of upper forestay - 20' 9" (248 inches)
Jib luff - 16' 10" (202 inches)

Forestay from Murrays - pull to pull 17' 1" (205 inches) $43
Original upper forestay - (37.5 inches)
Swivel - (2.5 inches)
Furler - (3.5 inches)
Total 248.5 inches

You can always secure the head of the jib to the top thimble and use the downhaul line on the P18 jib through the bottom thimble to create downhaul if you prefer. I like simple and don't need downhaul.

Turbo

So my entire original forestay measures 246 inches
upper is 36 inches
lower is 209
shackle makes up about 1 inch

my swivel is the one with an eye on each side so including shackles it is at least 5 inches I have some long shackles that if I use 1 on one side it makes it 6 inches if use a long one on both side sit makes it 7 inches.

I have a super short upper forestay that is only 12.5 inches Not sure how that will ever help lol. If I combine it with my p19 forestay and my 5 in swivel it comes to 247.5 inches. but the lower is much to long to pin both end of the jib in. I bought the p19 one used to adjust. I will probably just make it matche teh jib luff. which I measured at 203 inches. Then I may just have to modify my original upper to take out any difference.

--
Dustin Finlinson • Magna, UT
Member: Utah Sailing Association
1982 Prindle 18
1986 Hobie 17
1982 Prindle 16
1980 Prindle 16(mostly)
1976 Prindle 16(mostly)
Check out "Prindle Sailors" on Facebook.
--

You got it! just remember to measure by pulling, I took my forestay and jib out into the yard, drove a screwdriver through the the head grommet, pulled down on the tack, used another screwdriver through the tack grommet and then measured, so my jib was measured with downhaul already on it. When I ordered my custom forestay I added 1.5 inches each side for the thimbles so that the forestay will be slightly longer than the jib luff. When ordering, Murrays want to know measurements "pull to pull". Do same with all sections of forestay, it does not have to be exact, but close, I was half inch out on the longer side so I will rake my mast back half inch, taking up any slack by adjusting side stays. Post pics when you get it all together, I will do same when I remember to.

Turbo
P18

yes I did stretch them when measuring very similar to what you did. I am looking to cut down the forestay for the p19 I have to the correct length but I am a bit leary. I will have to go into Wet marine and swage it myself and personally I am amazed that the swages work for all that tension on those lines and am a bit scared I might mess it up and cause a de-masting. My rigging guy I guess is not going to be around til the end of the month and I don't want to wait that long.

I also need to take into account the difference in the bridles connecting to the furler via long shackles when they used to connect to the turnbuckle with a single 1/4 in bow shackle. that and the furler connection itself will add 3-6 inches at least.

Did you say you left a halyard for a sock cover for your sail? Did you make the sock if so out of what and do you have instruction/pics.

--
Dustin Finlinson • Magna, UT
Member: Utah Sailing Association
1982 Prindle 18
1986 Hobie 17
1982 Prindle 16
1980 Prindle 16(mostly)
1976 Prindle 16(mostly)
Check out "Prindle Sailors" on Facebook.
--

You would only need a sock if you were going to leave the cat stored mast-up, don't have one right now as I trailer the cat to go sailing but it would not be difficult to get one made up. Some UV resistant material, zipper might be a problem for that length, use old jib halyard, hook into sock and zipper closes as you haul sock up over jib.

Turbo

If you elect to cut & re-swage remember that if your system uses thimbles, you will lose 5-6" in cutting. There is that much lost cutting to remove the thimble, then wrapping the line around the thimble again & swaging. If you have the Harken furler, the length of drum & swivel are on their website,(I think it is 5" total). Aim for your new length to end up in the middle of the chainplate. You don't have to be exact as the chainplate allows adjustment, or use a Portuguese turnbuckle for adjustment.
I didn't want to bother having to use the main halyard to pull a sock up my jib. The sailmakers charged me $130 to reset the two battens & sew a UV strip to the edge of the jib. Once fully furled the strip covers the entire sail. Makes things quick & easy.
I'm working on an album, roller furling conversion, hopefully it will help others get most of the answers I was given here. I post photos of the jib UV strip in that writeup.



Edited by Edchris177 on Jun 02, 2011 - 07:54 PM.

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

Wish I would have thought of that! Oh well jib and sock are already in the mail.

--
Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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My Jib is the tequila sunrise jib so the strip would have to match all the colors or look funny. I don't foresee it being anywhere mast up with jib on for more than 3-4 days or the general camping weekend. Eventually I may get some new sails and I will have the strip included then.

not using harken drum and swivel this is a Hobie 18 drum and a Ronstan eye to eye swivel that came with it. ideally I would use the harken swivel or the Ronstan eye to fork swivel but Really need to not put any more money into this than I have to. The eye to eye ends up taking more space because it needs to have shackles to attach it to each thimble.

--
Dustin Finlinson • Magna, UT
Member: Utah Sailing Association
1982 Prindle 18
1986 Hobie 17
1982 Prindle 16
1980 Prindle 16(mostly)
1976 Prindle 16(mostly)
Check out "Prindle Sailors" on Facebook.
--

So I was at West Marine getting ready to swage the new end on the forestay. I had not done it before so I was getting some help from a girl there. She knew what she was doing. I had a bend in the cable and had the cover all stripped off where were going to put the swage in. I was holding the cable for her to cut watched her tape it off and cut it and she cut the wrong side. I sat there and watched her do it. if she had been holding and I had been cutting it would probably would have happened the same but wither way my forestay was too short. I tried using a chain plate to make up the difference but it was not enough to give enough stretch to the jib.

So working on plan B. I am using my original forestay and setting it up like the prindle kit at Murrays is setup. with a shortened upper and swivel at the top. I rigged it with a small 25in upper without ring but I don't quite have enough room to fully tighten the jib. So close yet soo far.

--
Dustin Finlinson • Magna, UT
Member: Utah Sailing Association
1982 Prindle 18
1986 Hobie 17
1982 Prindle 16
1980 Prindle 16(mostly)
1976 Prindle 16(mostly)
Check out "Prindle Sailors" on Facebook.
--

Ah yes, welcome to the dark side of rigging. It will forever be known as Frankenjib. :) I think most of us have had a similar experience. Likely the reason many people say 'screw it, I'm rigging a portuguese turnbuckle'. I believe that option gives you the most adjustability for the price.

I'll probably get there eventually myself - as soon as I figure it out properly. I think I need some step by step photos or something.

--
Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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The PTB really is simple.
Here is how it was explained to me.
"Here's what we use around here. We call it a Portuguese turnbuckle. It makes mast rake and rig tensioning easy and can be done solo. Start by tying about 3 feet of 5/32 line to your forestay. When you've looped it to about 3 to 1 onto your bridles/furler you can haul downward and tighten the rig WAY tight. If you want to rake further just ease this turnbuckle, drop the side stay pins down a hole and retension the turnbuckle. Tack your jib to the furler shackle and the whole turnbuckle hides inside the jib luff."
I can't copy the photo location, here is the thread. I'm in Australia right now, only have my little netbook with me.Picked up some gelcoat repair material on the way through Vancouver, am going to try to cover up the patch I did on the starbaord hull last year.

http://www.thebeachcats.com/forums/viewtopic/topic/12166



Edited by Edchris177 on Jun 07, 2011 - 07:14 PM.

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

the thing I am unclear on is the knot used to attach the turnbuckle to the bottom end and tie it off. The pic in that thread looks like a noose. Where I would be tempted to just use a series of half hitches. If it is that easy I'm going to rig with it this weekend!

Regards,
Dave

--
Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
--

tie a simple bowline up top, (just be sure to secure the end so that it cannot come undone),if it does you drop the mast. Tie whatever strikes your fancy with the bitter end. I think what looks like a noose is just a way to use up the bitter end so that the entire thing will easily slide into the jibb luff.
Any knot to your liking will work, the strength of the knot isn't a factor. You have 3-4 turns, so the load is being shared by 3-4 lines. Remember, 4 turns of 3mm V-12 Vectran is stronger than the wire halyard, or the Harken swivel up top.
I went to this as it was easier than putting on a harness & hanging on a trap wire to tension my rig.
Like you, I leave the mast up all season. This makes it easy to detension the rig at the end of the day.
I would have preferred 4mm vectran, only because the thicker line is easier to handle, but they only had 3mm in stock, so I just used an extra turn.
Don't let anyone not familiar with things to touch that line, if they undo the knot, with good intentions of helping you, then let go of the line, all hell will break loose.



Edited by Edchris177 on Jun 08, 2011 - 11:33 AM.

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--