Hi Everyone,

Newbie here with a Phoenix 18 Catamaran in good shape (sails, hulls etc)
The guy says it really flys. Does anybody know anything about this hull?
Is it like a Hobie 18, less the banana shaped hulls?

Reaallly new here, sailed a Hobie 14 as a teenager. Never an 18 tho..what should i be aware of??



Edited by argento102 on Jun 05, 2011 - 08:18 PM.

--
D Johns
Phoenix 18 KC#126
Port Hope Ontario

"If I put 2 Spinnakers on it, will it go faster?"
--

If you put 2 mainsails on it, IT WILL GO OVER

No idea except what I could find on the internet and some photos. It was designed in 1965 and was made from wood and fiberglass. It has about the same sail area as most boats in that size range. Has centerboards that swing into the hulls, so the hulls are symmetric and relatively straight, should tack better than an H14. The sail plan looks lower aspect (wider and shorter) that most 18 ft cats, that may make it a little less controllable. Otherwise it looks like a small Tornado, if it's in good shape you should have piles of fun on it!

Specific parts will definitely not be available but unless you break your boards or castings that shouldn't be a big problem. When you need new rigging send the old rigging to the rigger to measure, when you need a new tramp do the same with a tramp manufacturer. I would be most interested in seeing the rudder mechanism and front beam/mast step mechanism. If those ever wear out or break you would probably have to get pieces custom made or steal a system from another boat type (usually easier than it sounds but it can be expensive).

Regards,
Dave

--
Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
--

Thanks Dave,..the hulls are straight, solid, no cracks etc. The sails are new. The tramp needs a small sew along one bar loop. The hardware is solid too. My avatar is the boat
in question.

So you're saying this boat isnt too old to run? It's my first 18.



Edited by argento102 on Jun 06, 2011 - 03:49 PM.

--
D Johns
Phoenix 18 KC#126
Port Hope Ontario

"If I put 2 Spinnakers on it, will it go faster?"
--

not too old to run

but probably too old to sail as hard as when it was new...

you can generally do a fair job of hand sewing the tramp with heavy, waxed, whipping twine from a sailing shop

if the lines are not showing UV damage they should still be fine too

start out slow and build, don't load it up with 3 people and 300lbs of equipment and try and complete the north west passage

at least this season

Thanks ERice,..I'll look into that asap. Im trying to upload a few pics for you guys to get a better look
at her....

--
D Johns
Phoenix 18 KC#126
Port Hope Ontario

"If I put 2 Spinnakers on it, will it go faster?"
--

HULLFLYER

If you put 2 mainsails on it, IT WILL GO OVER

--
D Johns
Phoenix 18 KC#126
Port Hope Ontario

"If I put 2 Spinnakers on it, will it go faster?"
--

Ok guys, i ve added pics in the MEMBERS albums under ARGENTO102, maybe take a peek and let me know what you think etc.

Thanks



Edited by argento102 on Jun 07, 2011 - 05:23 AM.

--
D Johns
Phoenix 18 KC#126
Port Hope Ontario

"If I put 2 Spinnakers on it, will it go faster?"
--

Wow! What an neat boat!! With all the volume in the front of the hulls it should be pretty stable at speed.

Is it mostly wood construction? How are the beams joined to the hulls? The 'ports' in the rear look interesting, I would be a little concerned about water tightness and banging into the edges.

Regards,
Dave

--
Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
--

The Phoenix is the little sister to the 20' Shark made by Gibbs at La Salle.Mi. Pete

Wolfman

Wow! What an neat boat!! With all the volume in the front of the hulls it should be pretty stable at speed.

Is it mostly wood construction? How are the beams joined to the hulls? The 'ports' in the rear look interesting, I would be a little concerned about water tightness and banging into the edges.

Hey Wolfman, The hulls are solid sealed fiberglass. Those warped "port hatches" lol, i agree
are going to be removed and i'll custom make a set of sealed hinge covers that work on a
pressure latch. I think i caught an edge a few days ago on the s-board one :P

The beams fit in via shaped 5" long metal rings built into the hull structure. Someone looked
after the hulls. They re a bit oxidized, but i think we can bring her back up to speed. She'll be
used as a casual "beach Cat" here in Cobourg Ontario. Let me know if i can give you a quick
call Wolfman, Im in Ontario, just east of Tornto on Lake Ontario.

Arg

--
D Johns
Phoenix 18 KC#126
Port Hope Ontario

"If I put 2 Spinnakers on it, will it go faster?"
--

pbegle

The Phoenix is the little sister to the 20' Shark made by Gibbs at La Salle.Mi. Pete

Would you say it's a well designed Cat, for its age Pete? The guys aren't going laugh at me are
they? (really)

--
D Johns
Phoenix 18 KC#126
Port Hope Ontario

"If I put 2 Spinnakers on it, will it go faster?"
--

I go right by your place several times a year. My daughter is at Queens. I keep my 5.7 Cat at a place I have on L. Simcoe, up Orillia way.
The fact that it was sailed last year means you shouldn't be missing any critical parts.
Look over all the rigging carefully, & change anything that has kinks or broken strands. You will need an 8' hiking stik, if you want to be out on the wire, can't see if one is attached.
Take it out the first few times in winds of 10 kts or less, it is a lot to hang onto when it starts to blow. Unless you are pretty heavy, you probably cannot right it by yourself without the aid of a bag.
You will want to get the rudders aligned, & experiment a bit with mast/rudder rake to get the helm balanced. Lots of good help here, do some searches on the forums. Not much will be specific to your boat, but you should be able to find answers to lots of questions.
Where did you find it? Not many Cats for sale around this neck of the woods, even with the multi thousand sqaure miles of water. Get it out & sail the thing, if the leaners laugh, leave them in your wake!



Edited by Edchris177 on Jun 07, 2011 - 07:39 PM.

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

Edchris,

It'll need a Hiking stik and bag yep. I found it online and swapped a sled for it i
wont be using next season. Really looking fwd to learning it. Thanks for the advice.
It has the trapz tho.

arg

--
D Johns
Phoenix 18 KC#126
Port Hope Ontario

"If I put 2 Spinnakers on it, will it go faster?"
--

If I had that boat, I would take the mainsail to a local sailmaker and add material to the top, ie square-top it. Would cost around a $100, but make boat look very modern. As is, it's a very good boat that we overlooked in the 70's because class was weak compared to Shark, & Hobie was coming on strong. Pete

pbegle

If I had that boat, I would take the mainsail to a local sailmaker and add material to the top, ie square-top it. Would cost around a $100, but make boat look very modern. As is, it's a very good boat that we overlooked in the 70's because class was weak compared to Shark, & Hobie was coming on strong. Pete

Ohhh ok gotcha Pete.

--
D Johns
Phoenix 18 KC#126
Port Hope Ontario

"If I put 2 Spinnakers on it, will it go faster?"
--

I agree with pete and ed. Much good advice there. Lots of history in the sharks and there are still an active fleet of them around. They are neat because a lot of them were home built also. Sounds like it will be an awesome ride! I would love to try it out if i'm ever out your way! Great to have another Canadian on here, now if we can just get all those guys out in Vancouver and Alberta!

When working on the hatches try and get rid of any sharp corners and places that will catch on you. Stuff like that will drive you nuts while sailing. If it were me I would ve tempted to glass the whole thing over and install a flush port like most boats have, but that will be a big job and you should save it until the winter if possible. If you need small (or even large) bits and pieces make sure you let me and EC know, we seem to collect extra parts as a hobby and swap them around quite often.:) I even have some nice spare 7:1 mainsheet blocks and jib blocks right now.

Send me a PM and I can send you my number if you like. EC is the fiberglass expert between us though.

Regards,
Dave

--
Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
--

Hi

The Phoenix is a Rod Macalpine Downey design that is the little brother of the Shark catamaran that is still in production. Your boat is very likely made by Skene boats Ltd. that were located at 19 B Ceaser Ave in the west end of Ottawa. Don Skene who started Skene boats was well ahead of his time as I have been told.

I worked at Skene boats in the late 70s and we produced the last Phoenix Cat for a customer who was replacing one of the first production boats. We used parts that were left over from other builds and old original parts from his boat in order to got the last one on the water.

The boat sails well and is in almost every way a little brother of the shark cat (10x 20 platform). http://sharkcatamaranclass.org/

There are not a lot of them left and your appears to be in nice shape.

--
Barry YoungOttawaNACRA Infusion #1504
--

Perhaps I'm assuming too much here, the gals youngish hair stlye, wedding ring, & playground equipment lead me to believe you have small children.
The X beam at the bows would lend itself to the easy adaptation of a front tramp, a real hit with kids.
I would be tempted NOT to glass in those large rear ports. If you want to use it for family cruising those ports are golden for storage. I would glass up a "lip" on the underside, so that a hatch would fit flush with the deck. It is an easy build to fabricate a hatch of the required dimensions. The current hatch appears to be secured via two points that attach inside the hull. Keep that arrangement, have all fittings on the underside, & perhaps two bungees that secure it. You could then pull up against the bungees & unsnap them for access, but when secured there would be nothing protruding.
Make sure anyone out on the wire is wearing footgear, solid watershoes at the least. Those "fins" sticking up mid deck will be sure to contact water softened feet & shins at the worst time, ditto for the current rear hatches.
I assume you will sail on L Ontario? Lots of good wind, beaches, & 12,000 sq miles to play in!

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

just.sail

I worked at Skene boats in the late 70s and we produced the last Phoenix Cat for a customer who was replacing one of the first production boats. We used parts that were left over from other builds and old original parts from his boat in order to got the last one on the water.

Hello Barry, welcome to TheBeachcats.com,

I had a couple of pictures of a Phoenix (did they call it just the Phoenix, or the Phoenix Cat?) which I thought were in the Identification album but they weren't so I've created it now.
http://www.thebeachcats.c…ictures/?g2_itemId=80294
Hope you don't mind, I used your info in the description.

You wouldn't have any old original Phoenix literature around would you? Manuals, sales literature etc.?

argento102, (what's your name?) Please add pictures of your boat to that album to show more detail.

--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

How To Create Your Signature

How To Create Your Own Cool Avatar

How To Display Pictures In The Forums.
--

I also found an old Portsmouth chart that had the Phoenix listed, it's rating numbers are similar to a Prindle 16, so pretty quick for such and old design.

Phoenix D-PN = 77.8
Wind ratings
1-3 mph = 83.9
4-12 mph = 80.0
13-17 mph = 77.5
18-54 mph = 71.3

Prindle 16 D-PN = 77.7
Wind ratings
1-3 mph = 84.7
4-12 mph = 81.4
13-17 mph = 76.4
18-54 mph = 71.3

--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

How To Create Your Signature

How To Create Your Own Cool Avatar

How To Display Pictures In The Forums.
--

Just found your pictures in the Members album, wow, the bows on that thing look like weapons.

That shot also show the molded in "gil" in the hulls, the brand new Hobie Wildcat has something very similar.


--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

How To Create Your Signature

How To Create Your Own Cool Avatar

How To Display Pictures In The Forums.
--

Hey Guys,

My name is Darren Johns. I'll add all the pics I took of the Cat. It was on Sunday sitting at the ex owners house. My wife loves the "youngish" hair quip too thanks :P She's 43 and rarin to go on that Cat.
I like the front tramp idea for sure. Posting pics now to the ID Album Damon....

--
D Johns
Phoenix 18 KC#126
Port Hope Ontario

"If I put 2 Spinnakers on it, will it go faster?"
--

argento102

Hey Guys,

My name is Darren Johns. I'll add all the pics I took of the Cat. It was on Sunday sitting at the ex owners house. My wife loves the "youngish" hair quip too thanks :P She's 43 and rarin to go on that Cat.
I like the front tramp idea for sure. Posting pics now to the ID Album Damon....

I found a few other pics of Gibbs and Downie runnin the Phoenix. What im REALLY interested
in guys is the front TRAMP idea suggested a few posts ago.

Darren

--
D Johns
Phoenix 18 KC#126
Port Hope Ontario

"If I put 2 Spinnakers on it, will it go faster?"
--

A couple of boats have them, the most useful example would be the Hobie Getaway. That boat, however, has WAY more floatation than yours. Unlikely you would want to put an adult up there in anything but really light winds or you would drive the bow into the water. You would also have to make sure that the front beam was attached in such a way to handle the loads.

I think Andrew has a small one on his Mystere that he uses for storage? Also some of the G-Cats had them.

--
Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
--

I believe Andrew (MN3) had a thread a year or so ago about what he did to add one. He used to post under another name, but had to go into stealth mode. He is on here regular, hopefully he can link to that thread.

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

Edchris177

I believe Andrew (MN3) had a thread a year or so ago about what he did to add one. He used to post under another name, but had to go into stealth mode. He is on here regular, hopefully he can link to that thread.

Thanks guys, i'll check for that link. Next, if the bottom hulls need a light sanding and new finish, what's a solid primer/paint/clearcoat brand?

Is Imron still what is used? The bottom runners
on both hulls need a "light" scuffing and finish.


Darren J
Phoenix f18
Chocolate Maker &
Wine Something or Another



Edited by argento102 on Jun 10, 2011 - 03:45 AM.

--
D Johns
Phoenix 18 KC#126
Port Hope Ontario

"If I put 2 Spinnakers on it, will it go faster?"
--

i would hold off on cosmetic stuff until you sail her several times...the boat might have pressing needs you don't know about right now. we have a strategy for used boats, "pud" up and sail her this season, the boat will tell you what it needs this year. you would be pi$$ed if you went through all the labor and materials to refinish it and found out that it needs repairs under that pretty new paint. sail it like you stole it this summer! then when fall comes you can plan your resto for the off season.

--
Check out "Prindle Sailors" on Facebook!
bill harris
hattiesburg, mississippi
prindle 16- "BLUE RIBBON"
--

Ok guys, I have some close up hull shots of paint etc. They're both solid with no soft spots etc.
That being said, what are refinish opinions etc when it's time.

Darren


Ph18
No Racing Yet

--
D Johns
Phoenix 18 KC#126
Port Hope Ontario

"If I put 2 Spinnakers on it, will it go faster?"
--

It looks like the previous owner painted over the gelcote, & the paint is starting to fail. I would buy a couple sheets of 220, 400, 600 grit automotive finish sandpaper. It is wet/dry paper, the black stuff. You can use your palm sander, or give everybody an upper body workout by purchasing two sanding blocks, & go at 'er. Keep a garden hose handy, so you are sanding "wet", & frequently flush off the debris. For this summer I would just give it a once over with 220, followed by 400. Just try to remove the loose paint that has failed, then sail the crap out of her. When the season ends you can take the boat apart & decide either to remove all the paint & buff the gelcote back to a lustre, or repaint.
If the underlying gelcote is in decent shape, I would simply sand with finer & finer paper, working to 600 grit, then a rub down with something like Collinette 925 cleaner,(it has a very small amount of rubbing compound). The gelcote itself will now be fairly shiny. Follow with Collinete 920 wax, & it will look nearly new. Total cost including sandpaper, 925 & 920, plus a cheap palm sander, two hand blocks & power buffer will be less than a gallon of good two part paint, assuming you have the spray gun & compressor.
You will have to do almost all of the above anyway, BEFORE you paint. Prep for painting has no shortcuts, poor prep will give a poor job.
Each to his own of course, but unless you want a different color, or the gelcote is destroyed, why not bring oxidized gelcote back to its original glory.

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

Now that's the answer I'm after!

--
D Johns
Phoenix 18 KC#126
Port Hope Ontario

"If I put 2 Spinnakers on it, will it go faster?"
--