and do you hold them liable for things they break/lose/drop/damage?

edit: guess its different for those that sail with family/spouses, but others?

With power boats its always customary to split gas/booze/bait, but with a sailboat... its a little different.



Edited by matt922 on Jul 14, 2011 - 02:38 PM.

Bear in mind, if you are skipper, the crew is effectively giving his or her time to work for you.

Plus you get to scare the crap out of them flying a hull whenever you want!

--
Ben Merkley
Prindle 16
Chandler, AZ
--

I mostly sail with friends and family and in almost every case they are pretty much clueless when it comes to sailing. Therefore, we get along well.

If the person breaks something because they don't know any better I may yell at them but ultimately I'm responsible for thier actions and safety. Also it's a boat and parts are highly stressed, can't blame anyone but yourself if a shroud fails.

If they drag your boat up on the rocks and don't realize that is a bad thing could you charge them for the bottom job? Not really. If they pull to forestay pin and drop the mast because they were stupid... you may be able to treat them to some physical violence but I don't think you can charge them for the mast repair. If they are just @ssholes and treat your boat like a it was thier dorm room, you are probably justified stranding them on a desert island. I think that most of the time the best you can do is just not invite them to sail with you again or use your boat. The one exception would be if someone took a knife to your sails or tramp or otherwise did some damage on purpose. In that case you might need to take them to small claims court to get anything out of them.

Oh and crew always has to provide cold beer. I think it's a law or something! Or at least it should be.



Edited by Wolfman on Jul 14, 2011 - 03:26 PM.

--
Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
--

I sail mainly with family and good friends (the kind I would help hide a body if needed). None of them would intentionally damage the boat. If they mess something up it is my fault not theirs. If something breaks I repair or buy a replacement if not repairable. If the repair is time consuming or labor intensive I have asked my various crew members for help (fiberglass work) but I purchased everything for the repair and bought beer/food.


I think the bigger question is what happens when crew gets hurt? Are they gonna sue you (or your insurance) or just carry on with life with the attitude that accidents happen.

Hopefully you are sailing with people you trust. Sh!t happens, especially on stressed rigs. Most of the time when things break it is because it is old. How many of us a sailing brand new boats? Also, is it worth it losing a friend over a ripped sail?

--
Alex

Prindle 16 "Shake & Bake"
Portland, Oregon
--

And that is why I love living in Canada. Very difficult to sue your friend if you consent to a risky activity or hurt yourself due to your own stupidity. If you act like an idiot the law treats you like an idiot. :)

--
Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
--

Its not that i really want them to pay for it, just realize that when it does break, it aint cheap.

People that mainly sail with me are my brother and my best bud.( which is probably why i'm so critical about the whole respect shiz thing)

Your brother and your bff!? Kick em off the stern if they act up!

--
Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
--

I am pretty careful who I invite on my 5.7. That being said, they are volunteers. If they break something, well, it's a hobby, & 100% of my hobby is my resposibility.
At the end of the day, as long as nobody got hurt, it's fine. I can have sails sewn, buy new bungee cord, fix a ding in a hull, bones & muscle are harder to fix. And lastly, lets be honest, most of us don't sail really expensive boats, it aint The Thomas Crowne Affair. Our boats represent from $300-$3000, not really a lot of cash in the big scheme of things.
If my regular crew crashed my 5.7 into the breakwall, I'd sell the parts for a good portion of what I paid for it, & go look for another Cat. Hell, I'm doing that now, & my 5.7 is clean!



Edited by Edchris177 on Jul 14, 2011 - 08:22 PM.

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

< college student...my pocket is a bit more sensitive than some of you guys

also, as a college student, if i get sued, i dont really have much for anyone to take

If you would make them pay for breaking something then don't invite them. Like Tami says they are your crew. But if it becomes law then can I charge my son for the 20 rigs dings he has dropped in the sand?

--
Nacra 5.2
--

golfdad75

If you would make them pay for breaking something then don't invite them. Like Tami says they are your crew. But if it becomes law then can I charge my son for the 20 rigs dings he has dropped in the sand?

no on the ring dings, only for shackles and the expensive quick bail shackles

And the rig you'd drop if you used quick-connect shackles on standing rigging....

Edchris177

IOur boats represent from $300-$3000, not really a lot of cash in the big scheme of things.

speak for yourself, man...

Heh, heh, heh. Most of us are the dumpster divers and scroungers of sailing. :)

--
Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
--

My next cat is going to be a RebelCat!! :)



Edited by Wolfman on Jul 15, 2011 - 08:08 AM.

--
Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
--

Quote

I think the bigger question is what happens when crew gets hurt? Are they gonna sue you (or your insurance) or just carry on with life with the attitude that accidents happen.

Don't think a good friend wont sue you (or their insurance company) if push comes to shove. Say for instance they get hit in the head with the boom, suffer a head trauma, go to the hospital and incurr.... $10,000 (or easily more) in bills.

I used to invite cute girls out for rides often until i was told a story about a friend who had friends on his power boat. he told them all NOT to jump off the boat on the dock (as it was not in good repair)... guess what happened ... a girl jumped onto the dock and got hurt..... I can't recall the rest of the story but i think he did get sued, lost friends, etc etc.

I considered carrying a liability waiver in my car for people to sign if they crewed for me... but never did. Now i warn them, this is a sport with risk. I plan on getting very drunk and sail like an idiot. I may even take a nap while at the helm. You understand and accept this risk correct? - just kidding but it is a very litigious world we live/play in...

My feeling is if something breaks that is a wear item or something that is aged it is the owners responsibility. If your crew took your boat for a short cruise and jammed a daggerboard into the hull because they forgot to raise them when beaching, that might be another story. Especially if they were experienced enough to know better, which is the only person you should loan your boat to.

I have similar agreements with friends I go snowmobiling with. If you hit something and break something, you fix it. If something just breaks from lack of maintenance or just bad luck, the owner fixes it.

--
Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
--

load it up with blonds, brunettes, redheads, and beer and forget about it

--
Hank, Hattiesburg, Mississippi, P16 - "Sideways"
--

NO ONE puts blonds(dirty), brunettes(tubesocks), and redheads(creeknannys) in more peril than CAPTAIN SIDEWAYS(formerly backassward and soon to be upside down)! he is king of freaking out the ladies!

--
Check out "Prindle Sailors" on Facebook!
bill harris
hattiesburg, mississippi
prindle 16- "BLUE RIBBON"
--

If you don't have liability insurance on your boat, you are really gonna be in a world of hurt. It's not that expensive and is absolutely required for racing.

Wolfman

Heh, heh, heh. Most of us are the dumpster divers and scroungers of sailing. :)

That's Me

I'm glad this came up. So far it's mostly my family on the boat with a nephew once and a guy with a mono in our sailing group on a 20 mile once.

Next weekend I will be at a family camp out with the boat and I will need to have a discussion with everyone before to let them know that if they or their children go on the boat they are accepting the possible risks involved and that I cannot be responsible for any injuries.

So far the most annoying thing crew has done to my boat is get sand all over the tramp. I hate that as my knees are always grinding over it all day.

--
Dustin Finlinson • Magna, UT
Member: Utah Sailing Association
1982 Prindle 18
1986 Hobie 17
1982 Prindle 16
1980 Prindle 16(mostly)
1976 Prindle 16(mostly)
Check out "Prindle Sailors" on Facebook.
--

Tami,

Do you have a ballpark figure for the cost of liability?

Thanks in advance

--
Hank, Hattiesburg, Mississippi, P16 - "Sideways"
--

Insuarane on my 02 nacra f18 is $100.00 per year the same as it was on my 91 nacra 5.5sl. This is thru Alfa. Check with your auto insurance company. It's cheep.

--
Ron
Nacra F18
Reservoir Sailing Assn.
Brandon, Mississippi
--

Ron is right. We're insuring our Squares for around $200/year with State Farm, that's two boats...

liability on my '90 5.5 is about $200/year w/ progressive, but also gives me a $85/year discount on my car ins. through them...$115 net give or take.

--
Rob
OKC
Pile of Nacra parts..
--

give all newbees a two e-ticket ride max they just sit there have no idea whats going on .. do everything you say when you say it promptly the trick is keep them scarred out of there mind theres more then they buy a 20 pack and tell you how much they want there own cat hence the newly formed lake piru cat club were a 2 cat flotilla cocktail hour meets in the mast up yard aka the cat box and dont forget bylaw#1 20 pack or there abouts on ice!! as far as sue me goes stick to the code.. dead men tell no tales

walls619

give all newbees a two e-ticket ride max they just sit there have no idea whats going on .. do everything you say when you say it promptly the trick is keep them scarred out of there mind theres more then they buy a 20 pack and tell you how much they want there own cat hence the newly formed lake piru cat club were a 2 cat flotilla cocktail hour meets in the mast up yard aka the cat box and dont forget bylaw#1 20 pack or there abouts on ice!! as far as sue me goes stick to the code.. dead men tell no tales

Dude, punctuation, as in the use of it. Please, the period is between the comma and the question mark on your keyboard, none of which you use. You also might try to capitalize the first letter beginning a sentence.

--
Philip
--

Thank you! I though it was just me but I have been having a heck of a time translating. Walls we are a pile of old farts on here, you have to throw us a bone once in a while. :) My phone doesn't even have a camera in it.

--
Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
--

Quote

Ron is right. We're insuring our Squares for around $200/year with State Farm, that's two boats...

I may have missed something in the fine print, but here in Texas homeowner's insurance covers anything under 26' if it is self powered, (there is a HP limit but my monohulls never got close so I don't remember it). My two in the water boats were in marinas that required liability and a copy of my homeowner's policy worked for them. I can look it up but I am pretty sure it will cover the P16 also. The auto coverage has it when it is rolling and the homeowners covers it when it is wet. My coverage is with Travelers. That is liability only.

--
Mike Brady
Sugar Land, TX
Sailing off Magnolia Beach in Lavaca Bay TX
http://358degrees.blogspot.com/
P16 "Pooh Cat"
--

Sorry guys , tradesman good with hands and brute force not so much with keyboard.

Mike, I do not believe that homeowners insurance will allow you to race. It is my understanding that you need to have a separate policy with over $100k per accident. The quote I got from Foremost Insurance (also insures my motorcycle) was $100 for a $500k policy. The $500k policy was the same price as the $50k, so inquire about it if you insure.

--
Alex

Prindle 16 "Shake & Bake"
Portland, Oregon
--

That's a very good point Alex. I do not race and had not thought of that. For my purposes it would seem to be adequate, buy if you race probably not.

--
Mike Brady
Sugar Land, TX
Sailing off Magnolia Beach in Lavaca Bay TX
http://358degrees.blogspot.com/
P16 "Pooh Cat"
--

My "crew" respects my boat or they do not get on. This goes for my cats and my fishing boat. Its my job to show them how to treat the boats, how to care for them, and how to operate. If they are using the boat, I am always aware accidents can happen. I am prepared to repair any problem they encounter or cause. I will probably ask them to help with the repair mostly to show them how to do it but, I would never ask for money.

If you your wallet is sensitive to this, you should not let your friends be responsible for anything on the boat. Its just that clear, I never want money to get in between me and my friends or family. I have 2 cats, I bought one h16 for my Fiance and friends to borrow and learn to sail on. I only have about $400 and a couple days work in it. If my friends managed to sink that boat and lost everything, I assume the financial responsibility with my decision to let them use it. I have an H18 that I have much more money and time in, I will not be letting anyone borrow it or sail it without me until they have proved themselves to be in total control of that boat with me aboard. Use your own judgment.

On the insurance note, I did not even consider insurance before my first regatta. Once I was on the starting line with the other boats I realized that it was 100% mandatory. Sure, I could replace my own boat or the other guys h18, but what about the $25-$30k F20 beside me? Unfortunately my car insurance has no policy for sail boats, but I will be buying some certainly before I attend another regatta.

--
Greenville SC

Offering sails and other go fast parts for A-class catamarans
--

My "crew" isn't resposible for MY boat. When we are out there I am responsible for everything, including the crews safety. If they keep f'in up your stuff teach them how to handle it properly or stop asking them along.

--
The Bone
H16
Mass / NH
--

i can count on one hand the number of people I have taken sailing that I would think would sue me. Not saying insurance is a bad thing, but I sail mostly with my family and kindred spirits (I love my creeknanny). I have sailed with lots of kids between 6 and 10 too. I never sail with a kid, without that kid's parent on board. That parent is advised if their kid falls off, they should expect they are going off too. A kid (nor parent) has yet to fall off.
I have never made anyone buy anything as a result of their neglect or bad luck. I expect my family to buy me gifts to support the habit (2012 wish list: cable/rope halyard to eliminate attaching the loop on the sail to the hook on the mast, and a furler).
Whenever anyone touches a shackle, pin or clip, I make sure they know what those little bits cost, so they are less likely to drop it in the sand or water. A twist shackle is $25!? Captive pins are good insurance too.

Last year some clown stole the Prindle's adjustable extension tiller, the original boat part. Now that burns me up.

I've been racing small monohulls in Texas for 17 years and I have never heard that liability was mandatory. Maybe people mean it's the smart thing to do, but it's not required by law? I don't trust my insurance agent to answer this honestly....

Has anyone been sued?

--
John Fricker
Prindle 16
Seabrook, Texas
--

It's the standard in racing nowadays for SI to require insurance.

If you engage in racing, then you should have insurance. If you can't afford the insurance, then you can't afford to race.



Edited by tami on Aug 05, 2011 - 08:10 AM.

Insurance isn't that expensive... I was quotes $100 year for $500k plan.

--
Alex

Prindle 16 "Shake & Bake"
Portland, Oregon
--