Hey everyone,
I am new here and I used to sail a hobie 14 way back when I was a youth in South Florida on some lakes down there near my grandparents house. Now I have two young children and wanted to get them into sailing so scouring craigslist I found a good deal on a used older Nacra 5.2 . This boat is in decent shape altho it could use a re-gelcoat and some cleaning of the sails. It sails real nice altho It is much different from the hobie in the rigging dept. I am planning to move back to Florida pretty soon and probably be in the Port St. Lucie area down there. Right now I am enjoying the boat with my family on the lakes around my area here in Tennessee. It does not take too much wind to make her scream which is nice because being that far from the ocean there is not that much wind typically. Anyways, are there any others here that have a 5.2? Peace

Pete

I think there are more 5.2 owners on this forum than just about anywhere else. At least 5 others I can name off the top of my head. Any questions or tips needed do a quick search and you will probably find them. If not ask a question. Between all of us we have probably solved every problem, worked out the proper things to do and fixed every part of that boat. I have a reasonable boat gallery here http://www.thebeachcats.c…cf85743bac2794bc51f5d886

There are a number of others in teh members gallery. Welcome aboard! Now I`m off to go sailing for another week!

--
Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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That is good news because I am not entirely sure what goes where. My boat has the old style antirotation bar under the boom. The hulls are in good shape and as I said I want to repaint them to be nice and white. I have a good friend who is gonna help me with some applied graphics to the hulls and I am working on getting some sail graphics done. Other than that the boat is in good order. We took it out like four times now and even in a pretty nasty squall that crept up on us it has held together. It sure was flying with that wind man I gotta say. Compared to the Hobie 14 I used to sail this thing is like a formula one race car....

I need to rig up some sort of sideloader for the daggerbaords like you did. I was thinking about using some heavy bungees wrapped in surgical tubing and then laced into the grommets in the tramp or maybe pop rivet some eyelets into the hull next to the daggerboard slots. I also need to find some way to put bungees on my trapeze wires and find some harnesses. Anyone made their own harnesses? I want to get this boat looking real sharp and learn to sail it properly. My wife and kids love going out on it and I really love that I can get out on the lake and not use any gas or oil... Just the pure beautiful power of the wind... Amazing really. What is the fastest anyone has gone on an 5.2 nacra? ANy idea? Peace and thanks for the kind welcome and picture gallery...peace

Pete

For the side loaders I have a pvc pipe inside a clear hose. I painted the pvc to match the graphics. My bungees are secured with bolts through the tramp track. I like the grommets on the tramp better. The bungee for the crew trap runs through the front beam. Wolfman is right, I know I have asked every question imaginable and everyone has been patient with me. I have moved the jib leads under the tramp and removed the bar.

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Nacra 5.2
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Hey thanks man, pics or it didn't happen!! peace

Pete

Hey.. A California guy also got a new (to him) 5.2 this year. Had lots of questions and was bold enough to put them out here. He was amazed how helpful this site staff and guys were.. Check out my string starting in Feb -11.

http://www.thebeachcats.c…opic/topic/12306/start/0

Great tips from all of the crazies here !! I wanted to up grade all the stuff right then.. But someone said.. PATIENCE GRASSHOPPER.. SAIL HER FOR A WHILE.. Been doing that since June 1.. Glad I did !! But.. and tomorrow I will.. install new Pivmatics for the rudders... Over the winter I will.. 1. Put the jib block tac lines under the tramp. 2. Gromits in the tramp for the trap lines.. 3. cradles for the hulls on the trailer.. 4.Move the boom mount UP on the mast up 6 inches where the dimond wires tac. (and re-mount the rotation arm above the boom so even a fat guy can switch sides quickly).... 5. Going to put on the captive base type mast base... (Look on line cuz they are not to be found new)!! 6.. New sheets and lines ect.. I like the stock bungi set up for the daggers. (I single and they are not in the way for me) and (Positive pull and only pull one way to free up). My son has a 5.8. Dont like that set up.. Not sure about the pole fron xmember to xmenber. Only lost a pint or two of blood going over it but like it for a foot rest cuz I am tall.
My girl has ony a RED 5.2 on a huge great white sail so NO DECALS on the sail for me !! Classey.. Perhaps a BIG ASs* RED "Nacra 5.2" on the hulls.. I did replace the rigging. Got a new set from Calib on the east coast from a 5.0. Bridals were weird but stays and fore-stay worked. Might try to find a set of rudder casting that are adjustable unless someone her has an idea how to get them to tuck in a bit farther..
Might post in the Tec blog. Might get more info/ advice/feedback if you need it Cheers Hal

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Hal Liske
Livermore CA
H 16 (6+ 1.. Friends) H 3.2 N 5.2 (2) H 17 (2) H-18
Nacra 5.8 (son's) H 20 (Friends)
It's a Sickness

I Need a A Cat Please
--

Mine are just a piece of PVC pipe with some foam wrapped around them (pipe insulation). One word of advice, round off the the inside of the pipe or the edge will cut through the bungee. You need pretty good tension on them, so a couple of hammok hooks rivetted into the tramp rail (or grommet in the tramp work best. Also the stock shock cord is doubled 1/4" shock cord, enough to span between the hooks plus about 4-5" unstretched.

--
Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
--

petefromtn

Anyone made their own harnesses? What is the fastest anyone has gone on an 5.2 nacra?

i use an old windsurfer waist belt, not good enough for trapezing hours on end but good enough for small lakes

can be seen at the start of this video

http://www.vimeo.com/5075989

solo on my 5.2, 15knot reaches are common, more than that very rare....
at 15knots 170lbs? on the wire off the back corner is only just enough to keep the almost fully submerged leeward bow from digging in

another 170lbs next to me on the other trap, and stronger winds, would lever that bow up a few inches allowing another couple of knots but those loads are killing 30 year old cats...

I dunno about all of those mods, but the moving the boom up a few inches would not hurt. Up at the front it gets pretty tight and while I do not consider myself FAT, I am a big guy at 6'0 230 lbs... It is all I can do to pop from side to side without getting my life jacket caught under the boom rigging. Also the idea of putting the jib sheets under the tramp I do not understand completely. I know my rig is setup with some slits in the tramp on both sides. There are steel cables coming from the back of the boat and secured to the little pulley blocks that control either side of the jib sheet lines. There are also several bungees underneath the tramp. Two large blue ones that kinda go diagonally to the front outer edges of the little triangular brace underneath the mast. There is also a pair of bungees that go to the jib sheet blocks. This is all difficult to describe without pictures. I need to take some. I am gonna pop some pics if you guys can forgive the chalky worn look of my hulls until I can get them painted. This is after all an older boat.... peace

Pete

Okay guys,
I just posted some pics of the nacra in a photobucket account for the boat. I will post pics there from now on as I could not figure out how to post them here... You can see the rigging and the mast and the whole boat as it currently sits. Any ideas or suggestions on this would be MOST appreciated. Thanks and peace

Pete


http://s150.photobucket.c…acra%20catamaran%20album

If you were to raise the boom a few inches how do you make the mainsail work then? I know when my sail is all the way up the bottom of the sail might be an inch or two from the top of the boom. IS there a trick I am not seeing here or do you need to cut and sew the sail? It does sound like an appealing idea. Also how difficult would it be to add another set of trapeze lines to the port and starboard sides. MIne appear to be sorta woven into the stanchion cables and into the rings at the top of the mast..? It would be nice to not have to have just one on each side if my wife ever gets the courage to fly out on the side of the boat like that. I am also considering sewing up my own webbing harnesses. When I was a firefighter our high angle rescue instructor showed us how to fab a quick harness from webbing and that was just tied up but I think a fellow could sew a nice harness easily that would fit under the life preserver pretty easily. I also noticed that you can buy the steel harness hook seperately. Some of the nicer harnesses are in the $200,00 range. I am gonna need at least two... plus I am kind of a DIY guy...peace

Pete

If your trap wires are swagged into the shrouds you may have the originals. Captain Kirk at Key Sailing told me that was the stock set up. You may want to replace those shrouds and of course buy new trap wires, Moving the boom leads to more problems. the least of all you would have to recut the main. The slits are for running the jib leads under the tramp. This makes the boat much more friendly. Just attach an eye under the tramp in the same place the eye is above the tramp. Your wife will love the space. I removed the bar and glad I did. I agree with some of the other guys here about the age of the boat. I do not sail mine hard, double trapping on a 30 year old boat could put alot of stress on the hardware.

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Nacra 5.2
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Nice boat. I noticed the tramp is a newer/replacment with the slits for the jib blocks. I am curious as to your future graphics. I eventually want to reproduce the NACRA 5.2 decal or something similar.

I also have an old Nacra and have made some reference pics: http://www.thebeachcats.c…ictures/?g2_itemId=71663

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Gray Amick
Chapin, SC
'77 NACRA 5.2
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I bought 2 decals "Nacra 5.2" 56 inches by 6 inches for $15 apiece last summer at a print shop. One color. I assume they could have done whatever I wanted. they put it on computer and the next day wallah! Here is a picture http://www.thebeachcats.c…ictures/?g2_itemId=76228

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Nacra 5.2
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Gamick,
Hey man that is some beautiful rebuild you did on that boat. I am really liking the front trampoline you did, I saw a video of a hobie getaway that had something similar and there were little kids like mine riding in it getting wet. I have an old trampoline here ya know a round jumping trampoline that I bought a new tramp surface for it that has not been used. I was kinda hoping I could cut it up and then sew it into something like what you have there. How did you attatch the forward crossmember to the hulls? How strong is it? I do not expect to be able to have ME walk across it but I would love for the kids to be able to ride up there and be out of the way of the boom and enjoy getting splashed as we crank along. Also what did you paint your hulls with?

Golfman,
Hey man do you have a source of a file for the Nacra logo? Perhaps a .DXF? Peace

Pete

My 5.2 is an older one.. There is 6 to 8 inches between the top of the boom and the bottom of the main.. The rotation post is the old single post type mounted 4 in above the tramp. My mast is the same as yours however I have been using a sail from a newer boat. It may be shorter. Going to measure this weekend.. I did replace the old style shrouds. A bit tight for the trap conections up top.. First time out this weekend with the new rigging.
News at 11..he he Hal

--
Hal Liske
Livermore CA
H 16 (6+ 1.. Friends) H 3.2 N 5.2 (2) H 17 (2) H-18
Nacra 5.8 (son's) H 20 (Friends)
It's a Sickness

I Need a A Cat Please
--

What is the new style shrouds look like? I am actually not displeased with the boom setup. If I can get this thing painted in some durable white color and get some graphics on it as well as rig up some kinda bungee for the trapeze setups and then get ahold of or make some harnesses I think I will really be enjoying this boat. Getting it out on the lake last time was a lot of fun and I love that it does not really cost me anything. I only have around $900.00 in the whole boat and trailer so far.... Peace

Pete

petefromtn

Okay guys,
I just posted some pics of the nacra in a photobucket account for the boat. I will post pics there from now on as I could not figure out how to post them here...

Did you find these instructions in the FAQ?
http://www.thebeachcats.c…s/pictures-in-forum-faq/
You can still post the actual pic here, even using the Photobucket account pics. But if you have your own members album it makes your pics easier to find.

--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

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Pete take them a picture of whatever style you like. They will be able to reproduce it. The new shrouds do not have the trap swagged on. Ergo you have to buy new trap wires also and hook them up to the shackle on your mast hound.

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Nacra 5.2
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when the 5.2 came out it had just the single trap line swagged to the sidestays

so there were only 3 ends at the D? shackle at the single mast hound

later when they haded the 2nd trap line from the factory i think they also added a dedicated mast hound for the 4 trap lines

if you have a single hound boat, pre-1984? there isn't much space up there for 3 stays and 4 trap lines, so you may have to get creative with shackles and things to make them all fit

i gave up and simply removed 1 set of trap lines

never gets windy enough here to need 2 on the trap anyway

That is a good point eric, I had not considered that there is not that much wind here either. I know down in florida there is a lot of wind and the windsurfers love it there. Once we move back down there I will probably revisit the trapeze thing. Also I FULLY intend to fabricate some wing seats for the boat because if nothing else it is a way to hang out there and balance the boat and in the least thing it is somewhere for my kids to sit and jump off of when we are just cruising. I wonder if anyone on here can give me some dimensions on the distance out from the side of the boat and the height off the top of the boat that the tramp seat is set to..? I think I will make them from aluminum tubing and tig weld some cross beams to the top spars. I figure a vertical that is kinda S shaped and the crossbeams notched and tig welded into them. I will also need to notch the tubing to go around the little obstruction inside the cross tubes on the boat. I am figuring a couple stainless steel bolts down thru with some lathe turned insert sort of nuts to accept the bolts and support the weight. Then I plan to contact cement some neoprene material to the seat area and hopefully use some matching color to complement the boats graphics. Anyone out there done a nacra wing seat? Peace

Pete

Wife and I are off tomorrow, gotta take care of some stuff in the AM but gonna try to take out the boat in the afternoon. PRAY FOR WIND!! That is without thunderstorms.... haha Hoping for a nice day out on the lake with some good speed. Hope all of you can get wet tomorrow too!! peace

Pete

Pete,
That front tramp you see in the pics is from a Hobie Gateaway we sailed in Jamaica. Lots of fun in 30kts.

--
Gray Amick
Chapin, SC
'77 NACRA 5.2
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Gcamick,
Oh it looked like you adapted it to fit your nacra. That is precisely what I am gonna do. We went out on the boat today and it was kinda nice and windy. Actually got some speed out of her a few times. Still not enough wind to hang a hull but pretty nice nonetheless. I did have a damn mishap tho. When we were lowering the mast the darn boom alignment rod or whateveryoucallit got turned sideways and punched a small hole in the trampoline. I think I can repair it enough to use it for the rest of the season but it was a real heartbreaker. I am sure now gonna plan on moving or somehow removing that thing. It really is a menace and can actually hurt someone. Another thing that would make for a nicer sailing experience is for the boom to be a little higher. When the wind is kicking it is not really a problem because the angle is kinda up and out but when it is slow it really hangs down and is difficult for my wife and I to get underneath.

Other than these small issues we had a blast and that boat can make it clear across the lake and back in no time at all when the wind is blowing. It was really throwing a nice wake a few times. I swear when you get the sail just right and my wife is getting really good at setting the jib up and that boat starts to take off it is just a beautiful thing!! I also would love to hear about how some of you guys have moved the jib rigging underneath the trampoline? That would make for a much nicer sailing experience with the kids on board. I may machine some wide brackets on my CNC mill to accept a crossbeam from aluminum to take the span across the hulls at the bow to accept the trampoline material. I think I can also attatch something to the front main tube to accept the rear end of the additional trampoline. That would really help make the boat more useful for my family and a lot more fun. Getting the cooler and other stuff off the main tramp and allowing the kids to ride up there would really free up the rear tramp for more space and move-around-ability. The boat is just a lot of fun and we are anxiously awaiting for the day when this oppressive heat goes away and some real wind comes back into the area. I know that landing we have been taking the boat to has seen some serious winds and I cannot wait to hang a hull on a day like that. Most of the people there say it is normal to get a lot of wind in that particular area.

Anyways I would be very interested in hearing about any of these modifications others have done on their cats. Another thing that we had a little problem with was the daggerboards have a thick rope with two knots on either side and the port one is apparently not thick enough to keep the daggerboard from popping thru and getting stuck in the hull. We had a helluva time getting it back out when we were getting ready to put her back on the trailer. What a blast sailing that boat is... my kids love it and love jumping off into the lake and swimming underneath the tunnel they call it even more... peace

Pete

If you want to put a forward tramp on a 5.2 I would look for another boat. The 5. 2 doesn't tolerate much weight. I hate to sail with my buddies who weigh 200 plus. Putting the jb wires underneath is easy since you have the cutouts. Also the boom alighment thing, are you talking about the mast rotator control?. Just tilit it towards the mast when raising or lowering. Never thought much about it. PM me ifyou want some more info on moving the wires. I did mine this spring.

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Nacra 5.2
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Actually my wife and myself and both my kids had plenty of room and the boat seems to float and handle the extra weight really easy... I do not see why you could not put the extra tramp in front at all. It would mostly be for having somewhere else to put stuff and occasionally have the kids who are four and nine years old riding up front laying down on it. The boat is plenty large enough IMHO for that. The question is has anyone ever done it before? I may have to be the first. I would do it if nothing else just to have somewhere to store my crap and cooler while sailing. I am also not talking about a heavy duty tramp as the main tramp, more like a lighter version with a webbed fabric. The anti-rotation thing is a real pain and is gonna hafta be moved up to the top of the boom somehow. I was looking at pics of the ones on the later models and I think I could fab up something like that relatively easy. The boat was pretty quick yesterday in less than desireable winds. I think if I can get her out in a nice windy day things would get real interesting. Nevermind if we move back to florida soon I KNOW there is wind on the water there having lived there most of my life... I would love to talk to you about how you rigged your jib blocks underneath the tramp. Where are you located? I am in East Tennessee...peace

Pete

petefromtn

The question is has anyone ever done it before? I may have to be the first. I would do it if nothing else just to have somewhere to store my crap and cooler while sailing. I am also not talking about a heavy duty tramp as the main tramp, more like a lighter version with a webbed fabric.

Pete

Pete, throw us a paragraph every once in a while!

Lots of folks have rigged front tramp/cargo-nets on cats not designed for it, but each one is a unique engineering project. You may be the first for the 5.2 who knows. There are pictures of a number of these in the photo albums. One of these days I'll gather them all into one area, here's a couple.

http://www.thebeachcats.c…ictures/?g2_itemId=81260

http://www.thebeachcats.c…ictures/?g2_itemId=19005

to do a full front tramp like the G-Cats you'd need to add a new front beam at the bows. I've seen this done on a Prindle 18, I'll see if I can get some pics.

--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

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Damon,
That is exactly what I am planning. I cannot see how you could do a reasonably strong front tramp without another beam up near the front of the boat. What I am planning is to machine some rivet plates on my CNC and then get maybe some aluminum extrusion like material for the crossbeam and tig weld them together. Then using the slot in the extrusion sew up a rectangular trampoline with a beaded edge like the sail with a piece of rope in it to keep it locked inside the slot. That way it can be slid out when you do not want it in there. Then the back near the main crossbeam might be either another piece of extrusion or some fancy sewing with grommets and shock chord going into or around the main beam to make the tramp taught. It really seems like it would be pretty easy to fab this up on my boat looking at it. I would think getting something underneath the glass on the front of the hulls would be difficult since the access port is quite aways back from there so I suppose some large rivets of some sort would have to do or maybe some sort of expanding grommets. I am up for hearing anyone else's ideas about how to secure these CNC plates to the hulls safely.

THose pics are nice but they are not what I am looking at making. Basically if you look at a hobie getaway that is what I am wanting. I think in some ways the additional front crossbeam will strengthen the boat. This will not be for having a whole bunch of adults on it I do not think just a spot for the kids to ride on and an additional place to put your junk... Coolers, extra lines, maybe a small anchor, things like that...

I will need to look at a G-cat since I do not know what that is. I would be interested to see the pics of that prindle so equipped. Peace

Pete

petefromtn

maybe some aluminum extrusion like material for the crossbeam and tig weld them together. Then using the slot in the extrusion sew up a rectangular trampoline with a beaded edge like the sail with a piece of rope in it to keep it locked inside the slot.

If you use an actual beam (from a donor boat) it will already have the correct type slot for a tramp and probably be cheaper since you could probably use one with a damaged end or otherwise not perfect.

--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

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I thought about you today while on the water. IMHO the 5.2 will not take the weight up front. It is not buoyant enough. A cargo net maybe for some gear. But I'm sure Edison was told that an electric light was impossible.

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Nacra 5.2
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Golfdad,
Hey man I gotta wholeheartedly disagree with you. I have only sailed this boat a couple five times now but I have watched my wife and kids sit up on the front of the hulls like they were riding a rocking horse dragging their feet in the water as we sailed across the lake. My wife is tall and around 145 lbs and my two daughters are like nine and four years old. I noticed NO real difference in the way the boat was riding other than the drag of their feet in the water slowing the boat down. Now I agree that if the wind is really kicking and you are flying a hull I might not want them up there simply due to safely reasons. I do not however agree that there is not enough flotation up there. I mean usually when you look at videos of the nacra 5.2 the back end of the boat is lower down in the water than the front is. I also looked at that G-cat in a video and it did not appear to ride any lower in the front. Again I also want to re-iterate that this front tramp is solely for my kids and my gear to ride on. My wife and I will be back on the regular tramp doing the sailing thing....

It is not whether I am gonna do this or not, it will get done as time permits. MY only questions are as to the best ways to arrive at a working safe setup. Right now My best idea is to machine two plates to mate to the hulls just north of the non-skid area on top of the hulls. For The crossbar I intend to use some 80/20 or larger extruded aluminum bar. This will allow different attatchments for rigging of lines as well as other things and as I said before it has a slot for a bolt to slide in that I will attempt to use to capture the front end of the tramp in the same manner that a mainsail attatches to the mast. The rear of the tramp I am still working on. It will most likely be a few carefully drilled holes in the main beam with some standoffs that will hold a solid stainless rod that I can make the tramp shock chords around to tension it up. I would think four or five 3/8 inch holes would be more than enough across the span of the main tube to accept the rod. I might just use some stainless eyelets and put a stainless rod in there and tack them in place and then remove the assembly and bring it back into the shop to weld it up right. I am thinking that some pieces of stainless round stock lathe turned and then cut into pie slices and then drilled and tapped to make nuts for the eyelets inside the main tube should work but it would be a pain to get the nuts in place. I am still working on that.

Damon, I like the idea of the re-using another beam from another boat but honestly I have seen so few of these boats around here that finding one would be a major undertaking and the 80/20 is readily available and VERY rigid and lightweight for it's size.

That G-cat seems to be a very similar boat to the nacra altho it has hulls shaped more like a hobie 16... They were able to make that work it appears, I wonder how many of those boats are out there like that...
This is what I am after really....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKuMokmDWKM



It seems that the Hobie getaway is 16' 7" long very similar to my nacra altho it is made of plastic I guess. The way that the kids were riding up front like that while the older folks were out back looks like a perfect setup for a fun day out on the lake. When I want to really rip, the kids will not be on the boat anyways until they are a little older. Most of the sailing we will be doing will be like in this video.... I honestly think that this is totally doable and even practical..

I was sincerely hoping someone else had tried this on their boat or any boat other than the Hobie Getaway because it just seems like such a simple and easy modification and it would make the boat so much more usable. Everything has it's drawbacks such as if I do manage to pitchpole the boat sometime the extra tramp will act as another sail trying to keep the boat upside down. It also makes for more of a sail to kinda force the boat upward when flying a hull so you would probably be more likely to flip it over. The upside is obviously more room and a more usable boat and IMHO I think if properly done the extra beam would make for a more rigid setup on the hulls and perhaps aid in the stress on the hulls in rougher waters due to them being held together more rigidly. I am NO engineer but I have built all sorts of things over the years and this is just my opinion. Worst case scenario, it is a total dismal failure and I must remove it and patch some holes up front in a boat that already has several patched holes in it. Thanks for all of your concern and ideas and if anyone has a good suggestion about the best way to secure these plates to the front hulls in the most secure way I would love to hear about it... peace

Pete



Edited by petefromtn on Aug 03, 2011 - 08:38 AM.

Pete, its walls here the other new guy with a 5.2. At my local lake the wind howls daily! Latley i've been crewing offshore
preparing for a race around anacapa island . Still skippering my 5.2 three days a week out at the lake,mast up storage for another month.but i agree with golfdad,after being on the wire on a prindle 18.2 and a dart when i get back on my 5.2 i'm constantly having my crew (drunk friends) shift there weight towards the rear.As youre pace picks up the leeward bow rides lower ,now that i've taken a few rides with (yoda-jedi-cat-master) and buried the hulls a few times
the last thing I would want would be weight forward of the beam. anyways in light wind with the family,my direction would be a very temporary set up that way in a pinch lets say the wind picks up you could get everything back.After spending hours on the wire in the santa barbara channel i've become very fond of foot straps!!!Getting wraped around the dolphin striker hurts!! ON most of the 5.2 i've seen with straps the skippers rear foot strap is behind the aft beam
that gave me a idea of proper weighting , I know my grammer sucks I'm no writer i hope you get what i'm trying to say
think about a temp set up try it out i think you will reconsider buy the way have an extra dagger board you want to sell? on a beam reach pull boards up 20%


walls
one board willie(nacra5.2)

No man I do not have any extra anything for this boat which sucks really.. I guess I am gonna hafta disagree with both of you then, As I said I have watched my wife AND kids ride the hulls up front on the boat and the flotation was never a problem. I just got off the phone with a hobie dealer earlier today asking about the getaway and how strong the front tramp is. He basically told me that the front is more of a storage area altho kids and light adults can ride up there. The front tramp was never designed to hold the weight of a full size adult. Mine will be much the same with just enough strength to hold my kids and maybe a cooler or so...

Once I get it finished I will post you guys some pics of it out on the lake. AS I said I am quite sure it will work, I am not saying it will not ride lower in the water with the kids up there, of course it will... What I AM saying is that I do not see it as a problem. The extra storage space alone will be worth the effort and if the kids can ride up there getting their butts wet thru the webbing having fun then it will be a winner in my book. I am trying to source materials right now for it. I have some current projects that I am working on for my friends Recumbent bike business that is taking some time. I am making a weld fixture for the bikes and once it is finished I just need to tig up these frames for him and I should have some spare time then... We shall see how it goes. Again As I said worst case scenario it DOES NOT work, all I gotta do is remove it and patch some screw holes... I see no down side... Everyone is always skeptical of new things. Unless you can show me someone who has done exactly what I am proposing and it was a dismal failure I would prefer to hear ideas about how to make it work the best..... peace

Pete

Hey Pete did'nt mean to bum you out.No one likes a nay sayer !Just remember if you fly windward hull even a foot leebow goes down bubble.And i'm into it cooler yeah!

walls

Walls,
No worries man, altho I am not quite sure what the heck you are talking about with the leebow and down bubble. IS this a submarine? Are you from Australia? I am just trying to get the most enjoyment and sail time out of this old boat and I see this as a great way to accomplish just that... Peace

Pete

Pete go ahead and knock yourself out. By the way is your boat all fiberglass or do you have foam core?

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Nacra 5.2
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Pete, a friend in Ocean Springs is going to send me pics of his Prindle 18 with a front tramp. I haven't seen it but I think it's a full front tramp using a third beam and custom made tramp.

He's also installed Getaway wings on the boat.

--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

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Damon,
Yeah man now we are talking.... I would love to see some real pics of a properly retrofitted front tramp on another boat. Also those wings are a project on the roster for me too... I am pretty pleased with the boat so far and it is pretty fast in light winds. I imagine adding just a tad bit of weight carefully will not seriously affect the performance too badly. Besides anything I can do to make going sailing more comfortable and more fun for the family is gonna be better for everyone.

Golfdad,
I am gonna take that comment in the positive way I hope it was meant to be, Hopefully I will not literally knock myself out. I fabricate stuff like this every day of my life so I know I can do it. The end result will hopefully speak for itself. As Far as the hulls, I have only had the boat a week or three now and the only look inside the hulls I got was when I first bought it removing the access ports. I did not see anything but a hollow hull made of fiberglass... Hopefully that is a good thing....

A friend of mine said that he has used some sort of rivet nuts on fiberglass before. Basically it is a large rivet that mushrooms and inside it is a steel nut. I dunno how well these would hold in fiberglass but it sure sounded promising. Any other ideas about securing these mounting plates to the hulls would be most welcome... peace

Pete

Yes it just an expression to go ahead. Kinda of like break a leg to an actor. good luck with the project.

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Nacra 5.2
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Wow bummer man,
I was outside working on the Nacra today and noticed that the rivet bolts that hold the rudder arms to the tie rod are kinda worn out and one is half cracked. I guess I am gonna hafta get some stainless steel fasteners to replace them with. Anyone else had this problem? Also what is a privmatic rudder system? I am trying to get this boat setup the best I can and while it is old there is a lot of good things about it. I am thinking that a simple stainless bolt going thru the other way with a nylock stainless nut on the inside of that tie rod fitting should work but anyone else have any suggestions? I suppose I will do both sides just to be sure... peace

Pete

Quote

I have only had the boat a week or three now...

Yet he seems to know more than people who have been sailing for years.

Dude, Pete - you come on here asking for advice and then you shoot years of experience down for your engineering skills and 3 weeks sailing expertise. I think the people suggesting it isnt a good idea have the safety of you and your family in mind and maybe you should consider heeding their advice. We don't want to have to read a follow-up to this thread about the time your boat pitch-poled with your wife and kid lying up in the forward tramp you constructed. Hopefully the story would just be a bunch of wet people - everyone IS sailing with PFDs on, right?

If you look at some of the other 5.2 threads on here your 5.2 is meant to sail with the leeward hull regularly digging under the water. With all that weight forward(100 lbs on a small boat makes a BIG difference) you're really throwing off the balance of the boat and asking for trouble. I'm guessing that the times you've sailed with people sitting on the hulls the winds were very light and you were sailing traveled out & sheeted out - iow - very conservatively. The winds won't always stay light and can come up quickly without warning & can gust wildly - especially on a lake.

Now if you choose to ignore the advice of a lot of seasoned veterans, well, don't say we didn't tell you so...peace

-Scott

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Scott
1982 Nacra 5.2 "Great White"
Ledbetter Beach, Santa Barbara, CA
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A pivmatic rudder system is a device that kicks your rudders up when you hit the botttom (or anything else) The cost is around 60 dollars each and the savings is more. I did not have them and hit an oyster shell bank going about 8 knots. It ripped the gudgeons out of the transom. Now a weekend of fiberglass work. I would reccomend this as your first add on. Make sure you get the ones with the metal jam cleat. Very easy to install maybe 10 minutes. Murrays has them.

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Nacra 5.2
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Scott,
Dude, Perhaps you did not fully read the thread.... I have been sailing Catamarans since I was a kid. Mostly a hobie 14 back in Florida and I have been out on rental cats down in Miami several times out in the ocean. I have also sailed Hobie 16's a few times on Lake wellington in South Florida. SO the comment about me having the boat only a week or three is pertaining to THIS boat. Also I have been around boats all my life from when I was little as I grew up in South Florida fishing and skiing with my parents and grandparents. I also spent five years in the United States Coast Guard so I think I know a thing or two about water and boats. The only questions I have here are related to this PARTICULAR boat as it is the First Nacra 5.2 I have owned. The comments I make here are from my personal experience of what I have seen of the boat and the videos I have watched on youtube.

I came on here to learn about the boat and to look for information about modifications I wish to make to it. There are a couple people who said they would not do it. That is fine, I take it under advisement, however there has also been conversation about ways to better this boat for my uses. Such as moving the jib rigging underneath the tramp as well as some other good suggestions. I welcome them all good or bad as long as they are made kindly.

Scott if I have offended you somehow, While I do not see how, I apologize.... However at the same time consider that even someone relatively new to the forums may have something to add. I do not doubt you are a much more experienced sailor than I am, as well as some others on this forum. So far I have gotten the boat with my family on board around the lake and back safely several times, even went thru a nasty squall and the only casualties were some worn out parts of the boat.

If my enthusiasm for modding my boat even in light of others recommendations not to offends people on here than I will just not post here anymore. I only wanted to learn from others about these particular mods.



Golfdad,
Thanks for that information. I need to research what they actually look like. Mine had shock chords going thru the rudder tubes and then into a hole on the rudder itself to help bring it up. Holding it down apparently consists of a line going into the bottom of the cam of the upper part of the rudder and then thru the housing to a cleat up near the tie rod that you can tension the rope with generally keeping it held down. My biggest gripe with the rudder system is that there is not a good way to keep them vertical while trailering. I made some welding rod keepers that hold them up against the tube but a good pothole in the road and they bounce enough to allow them to fall. The PO had them tightened down REALLY tight so they did not fall hardly at all and putting them back down when you launch the boat was a pain... Thanks for the tips man.. peace

Pete

Here is a picture. http://www.thebeachcats.c…ictures/?g2_itemId=35637 the red ball/red line is the rudder pull up. It goes through the hole in the rudder ( where the bungee was) and comes back to a jam cleat on the rudder arm. The green ball/white line goes through the pivmatic. Notice the carbon sleeve on the rudder arm. It pivots backward when your rudder strikes something, releasing the line and thus the rudder. I use the rudder pull up when trailering with a real strong flat bungee.
There are good pictures on the beachcats photo albums that will help. Wolfman in the people section and this pic in the technical section.
On the other issue let that horse die. If you want to, go ahead.


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Nacra 5.2
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Cool man that is exactly what mine looks like, Only I was not aware of how it actually worked. How to you keep it up? Is that red line strong enough to go to the rudder top hole and keep it up while trailering? Mine had the bungees inside it but it has that jam cleat and pin and the floating U shaped bit as your picture shows. I just got back from the hardware store with some new stainless bits for my tie rod arm. It seems like the rivets were all worn out and mushroomed. The great news is that the store local to me has tons of linear footage of bungee material, webbing, even rigging lines including stainless... I was kinda shocked... I cannot wait to get some measurements of the trapeze setups and pick up some thin bungee material to keep them from flopping around . I was eyeing the webbing and harness stuff they had there to see if I could fabricate a simple trapeze harness for myself and my wife. I have an industrial sewing machine here might as well use it right... peace


Pete

Hi guys,
I just bought '81 Nacra 5.2. It's a "project" boat and i have to put all the parts together. I'm puzzled what the jib leads (cam blocks) are ATTACHED TO. There are two SMALL padeyes on the hulls and two on the front beam - but they look little weak to hold full load of the jib sheet. Looked at some pictures showing lines going through grommets in the tramp - but again - where do they go from there? Would appreciate any tips or comments.
Andrew

On the original set up the jib leads run from pad eyes on the front beam to a pad eve on the rear beam (the pad eyes are above the tramp). A modification some do is move the pad eyes under the tramp and run the jib leads under the tramp. The jib leads come above the tramp for about 16 inces and then back under to the front beam. Those pad eyes are below the tramp.

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Nacra 5.2
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Quote

Is that red line strong enough to go to the rudder top hole and keep it up while trailering?

Yes but would I trust it , no. I use a flat bungee and attach it to the boat.

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Nacra 5.2
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Golfman,
I agree, what I have done is taken some Stainless 1/8 inch Tig welding rods and made hooks out of the ends of them to fit into the little hole in the top of the rudder that used to accept the bungee chord and then made it long enough to run up to the front of the rudder tube and I put the hook inside the end of the tube. It actually works pretty good but if you hit a real nasty pothole it has popped out and the rudders can then fall down. It takes quite a bump to do it and has only happened when I was in a real hurry to get to the lake. I also recently tightened the hooks a bit and it has not happened since.

How is your Trapeze lines bungeed off to the boat on your nacra? I found a good local source for the bungees and I am gonna buy some for the trap lines as well as make the side loaders for my dagger boards. My plan is to use some of their heaviest bungees and buy some surgical tubing to run inside and then to the two grommets on the tramp. This should be simple and strong hopefully enough to keep them in position. My boat has some interesting setups I suppose because it is older one. The main crossbeam where the mast sits has two of the jam cleats on top on each side and there is a pair of pulleys built into the ends of the tube one on each side. I am not sure what these are for? I looked at the manual but it is unclear to me what they are for. I almost wonder if they are for the trapeze and use one long bungee going thru the tube to each side and up to the trap wires. I am gonna maybe use them for that and attach some hooks to the ends to secure to the trap lines. What kind of hooks are used for this? Perhaps a carribeaner and make an eyelet into the end of the bungee? Any information about this would be very helpful... Thanks and peace

Pete

Okay guys,
Made a trip to the very well appointed Hardware store locally here and was able to get some things for the Nacra. The First thing I wanted to get working was the sideloaders for the Daggerboards. I looked at some of the ideas on here I saw and came up with something simple and my own. I had a very hard plastic compressor hose I bought awhile back that was so rigid it was basically unusable. It has since been cut into several different pieces for different things. SO I bought some of their very nice heavy duty all black bungee chord in linear lengths enough to make the sideloaders. Basically my boat has three grommets near the edge of the tramp just inside of the daggerboard. I am not sure if this is what they are for but I ran the bungee into them and covered the bungee with this rigid hose to go around the edge of the daggerboard to keep it from cutting into the bungee. I just went out there and installed them on both sides and they seem to hold the boards up very well. I also replaced the knotted rope that was installed into the top of the board to keep it from falling down into the gap in the hulls which is what happened last time we went out. The new rope is much heavier and thicker so the knots are also larger hopefully keeping it out of the board well.

I also bought some thin all black bungee and some very cool heavy plastic hooks to make retainers for the trap lines to the boat. I was gonna run them into the little pulleys on the ends of the main beam and then fabricate an endcap like the original but it seems that the angle of the pulley and the direction of the bungee to the mast kinda puts it into a little pinch in the corner of where the pulley is to the aluminum corner of the beam. I am kinda afraid it will eventually cut the bungee on me. I considered putting another small padeye into the very top end of the main beam just inboard of the outboard stainless strap. Not sure if that is a good idea or not.

When I was underneath the boat tying the knots in the bungee chord for the sideloaders I noticed a very strange arrangement of very thin bungee and heavy thick rope. The thick rope went from the outboard ends of the main beam at two padeyes diagonally to the center of the rear beam in a vee shape to a pulley which attatched to a thin bungee that then ran back forward to the large bolt that is the stainless steel shaft for the mast ball and was wrapped around it many times. None of this was tight or even seemed to be purposeful at all. I temporarily removed it until I can figure out what it was. Also what is that little pulley on the back underside of the rear beam that is attatched to a padeye directly underneath the center of the traveller and mid beam? I cannot figure out what it is for....

Anyways, I also replaced some hardware in the rudder system and tightened up some things back there. I also took Golfdad's idea and replaced my Tig wire rudder keepers with some of the rubber heavy bungees to keep the rudders up while going down the road.

Now I wanted to buy all new rope line for the main and jib sheets and had it all measured and even picked out the right rope down at the hardware store. The lady actually told me that the large bundles that they had priced at like $50-150.00 each could not be broken up you had to buy them all!! I was like you gotta be kidding me right... Anyways, she said she will try to find me smaller lengths of the line I needed and call me back. We shall see. They had some very nice all black line there... I am trying to make the color scheme on the boat to be white , blue, and black. All of our Life Preservers are blue and black already so it just made sense. I need to find some blue or black line to make everything look professional and like I might possibly know what I am doing.

I am thinking I am gonna go with the poly paint on the hulls. That interlux brightside seems pretty good for the price. I may just give it a chance when I go to repaint the boat.

We are planning on taking the boat out to the local Sailing spot on Sunday and see how the new mods work. I am hoping for nice winds as the wind forcaster website I am using is saying gusts to 12 mph, Not much but better than nothing... Cannot wait to get the boat wet again... peace

Pete



Edited by petefromtn on Aug 06, 2011 - 03:54 PM.

petefromtn

When I was underneath the boat tying the knots in the bungee chord for the sideloaders I noticed a very strange arrangement of very thin bungee and heavy thick rope. The thick rope went from the outboard ends of the main beam at two padeyes diagonally to the center of the rear beam in a vee shape to a pulley which attatched to a thin bungee that then ran back forward to the large bolt that is the stainless steel shaft for the mast ball and was wrapped around it many times. None of this was tight or even seemed to be purposeful at all. I temporarily removed it until I can figure out what it was. Also what is that little pulley on the back underside of the rear beam that is attatched to a padeye directly underneath the center of the traveller and mid beam? I cannot figure out what it is for....

Sounds like you are describing the Hawaiian Righting System, it's a method of having a long thick righting line that automatically pulls up tight underneath the tramp and out of the way.

This old thread will help explain it.
http://www.thebeachcats.c…ms/viewtopic/topic/11427

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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

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Damon,
Yessir, that is exactly what it was. I removed it all mostly because the lines and bungees were pretty old and worn out. I will replace it with some nice new line when I get my new main and jib sheet lines from that lady. I can see what it does not. It was NOT very tidy anyways and I think I can make the same thing only better this time. We shall see. Just got home from Church and was PLANNING to take the boat out but my wife is not feeling well right now so we may not go.... We will see if she feels any better in a bit... peace


Pete

Pete,

I know I have had to learn the hard way about a few things and several things I have done with my boat were 'not recommended'. Some of these worked out OK some just plain sucked so I tried something else. I've been away for a few weeks (likely to everyone's relief) or I would have jumped in myself on a few posts. The one thing I don't think you should compromise on is getting new shrouds and forestay asap on any older boat. You do not want the mast coming down on you EVER - that mast can kill you easily and at the very least will break bones.

About the front tramp. I tend to agree with Golfdad on that in anything over about 8 knots you NEED to get the weight back or the front hull will dig hard (or you have to travel out the main). Under that you can usually hug the front beams as long as you balance the back out with some weights. My own recomendation would be to do a simple mesh tramp maybe 2 ft wide and use mostly for storage of lightweigh objects and a platform to throw the kid onto in light air. Andrew on here has a front tramp on his Mystere that is useful for that purpose but isn't rigged to support someone walking on it.

As far as the wings, man if you can make them they are amazing! I was fortunate enought to find a pair of the old Nacra ones. I still have a bit of finnageling to do on them but I got out in 18 knot winds gusting to like 25 last weekend and sitting on the wings gave so much extra counterweight to the boat that we were just HOWLING. They are comfy and almost as much fun as trapesing. Next time I'm out at the cottage i can take some measuremets and angles and things if you like. The hardest part is the attachment to the beams (you can't manufactur the stock vulcanized rubber plugs by any means I am aware of).



Edited by Wolfman on Aug 07, 2011 - 04:54 PM.

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Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Wolf,
Hey man I would LOVE to see some pics and have measurements of the wing seats. I am quite sure I can fabricate anything that is necessary for the boat. It is what I do...

as far as the Front Trapeze. I guess I gotta say it again, It is gonna get built. as time permits, and we shall see how it works. Again worst case scenario it needs to be removed or as you suggest shortened and I gotta fill some holes in the hull. Again I disagree here. I suppose I will just have to either prove all of you wrong or eat crow. Will not be the first time and probably not the last but this mod is just too valuable to me for the boat to not try it. It is as simple as that. I thank all of you for your input on it but as I said before I would MUCH more like to hear your ideas about HOW best to do it then more about why I should not. I can already see my kids riding up there in light winds having a blast... It is literally a done deal...


I would replace the stays on the mast but I am having trouble finding the stainless cabling for a REASONABLE price.. that stuff is pretty pricey. Is there a kit that you can get for it? Honestly having been told about this danger before I have inspected them quite a bit already and saw no rust or damage on any of the main lines. The Halyard that broke was actually repaired before and whoever did it was not experienced to do it right and it actually broke at the repair joint. I dunno... Peace

Pete

Pete, be careful on buying rope for your main and jib sheet at a hardware store. Salty Dog Marine has a kit for around 100 dollars to replace every line on your boat.
https://www.saltydogmarine.com/product_info.php?cPath=421&products_id=4001&osCsid=bcfa27b20d26afa45fb2ead42ef397a9
REASONABLE PRICE? Tell me when you find that animal.
Again you can get new shrouds at Salty Dog for $51 each.

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Nacra 5.2
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Do it! Weather it works out or not, if you are willing to put in the effort I will be interested to see the results. Sometimes with a bit of tweaking you can make something work that other don't think will. I have to use my retractable boarding ladder as an example. A lot of people were skeptical that it could be made to work given the limited options and places to attach and store it. But I found a ladder that could be made to work, MacGyvered the install and now I don't know how I lived without it.

Thanks Golfdad I missed that! Note that the line sold at hardware stores is not very strong and extremely flexible. And the bungee cord is really low quality - will likely not last you a full season. I know it sounds kind of silly but you are better off purchasing the running rigging from a reputable marine store. There is nothing worse than your 40' mainsheet stretching out to 60' in a gale. I've seen it, get some of that stuff wet and try and sail with it, bad scene!

I would suggest using a relatively cheap low stretch poly line for all your lines - New England Sta-set is the standard. I buy all my line from Annapolis Performance Sailing, they have the best line selection and prices in the business. Not to mention some of the best customer service! Here is their line section http://www.apsltd.com/c-1485-line.aspx They also have high quality shock cord at the bottom.

The best part though is thier sail line section here: http://www.apsltd.com/c-4751-line.aspx I outfitted my whole boat with dyneema and vectran line for the same price as poly from this page.

Stock lengths for running rigging can be found here http://www.kosailing.com/…brand_pdfs/catalog_4.pdf

Also not that tying bungee/shock cord is a bad idea. The knots tend to work themselves loose very quickly (regardless of how you tie them it seems). You should use hog rings and hog ring pliers to secure bungee.

Cheap hog ring pliers: http://www.harborfreight.…og-ring-pliers-3102.html

Hog rings http://www.apsltd.com/p-8…s-for-14-shock-cord.aspx, or you can buy them induvidually at your local Grainger. That is also a good source for stainless rivets.

Finally here's the best trick for finishing the ends of tech line that doesn't melt, covering hog rings so they won't scratch or covering other sharp edges on wire rigging. Electrical Polyolefin heat shrink tube with hot glue inside http://www.harborfreight.…shrink-tubing-67598.html. It shrinks 3:1 (not 2:1 like regular heat shrink) and glues itself to the line. A $10 assortment will last you the rest of your life.

As far as standing rigging, if you know how old the rigging is, that it was run in fresh water only, have run your hand down every piece of the rigging without snagging a loose wire, inspected every inch for corrosion or crimps and found that it is all right I would maybe trust it for a season or two (with consenting adults only only the boat). Especially if it is less than 10 years old. However most boats of this vintage are sold with the original rigging, 30+years old. Even standing in the yard all the time the wire will degrade somewhat. I was pretty lucky, I ran my boat this way for a season and didn't dismast. Then I accidentally dropped my mast the next season while adjusting the rigging, saw what it could do and scared myself into buying new rigging.

I would suggest just going with the rigging packages offered by Murray's Marine or Salty Dog Marine. Those are easier, very likely cheaper and definitely more secure than making them yourself. If you are sailing in salt water, strip the PVC coating off so you can see any corrosion. If you are sailing only in fresh water, you can leave it on and just inspect the fittings periodically. Fresh water won't do much to the PVC coated wire, but the fittings are in contact and made up of dissimilar metals so they can corrode over time. Once you have replaced the wire rigging, make note of it. Replace again every 5-7 years (5 years for sure in salt) weather they look bad or not. Having a mast drop on you while sailing isn't something you ever want to expereince. Hopefully it will drop away from the boat but depending on how it occurs it is equally likely that it will drop backwards onto you. Especially if the forstay or a bridle lets go!

If you really want to make them yourself the cheapest way is with a swage it tool. http://www.apsltd.com/c-1…ng-tool-by-swage-it.aspx Buy the big one! Your rigging is 5/32" dia and the small one won't work for that. Copper with zinc plating nicopress fittings (use 2 per end on each wire, don't trust 1). Use stainless thimbles at each fitting. Not sure where you can get the stainless wire cheap, maybe a local aerospace manufacturer? Remember that the key to the nicopress fitting is to compress the copper into the wire strandes so they essentially bond together. You can also get non-swaged sta-lok fittings that are just as secure but they are extremely expensive at about $50 per fitting.

Wow, now that's a post. I think everyone is now hoping I go back on vacation soon. :)

--
Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Thanks for the tips guys, I am no expert in lines and rigging for sailboats but this is NO ordinary Hardware Store. They actually have a MASSIVE selection of stainless Hardware for marine and other applications. Their selection of Shock lines is most impressive. The rope they sell is also quite an amazing selection. This is no HOME DEPOT here. It is a mom and pop store that carries just about anything you can imagine. In fact Most of the hardware I order I buy from Mcmaster Carr or MSC direct they also have it albeit at a slightly higher price. I go there often when I need something quick. It is just down the road from me too which is nice. The Bungee Chord I bought looks to be better quality than what was already on the boat.

Honestly maybe I am a little thin skinned here but It seems like I am getting less of ideas about what to do and a whole lot about what not to do. I am enjoying the boat and I just want to make it the very best it can be. What may not be good for you may be just right for the next guy and I am USUALLY that guy. I often try to be different and try new things and honestly that is what I do in my day job, fabricate all sorts of DIFFERENT things so I am used to it. Perhaps when you guys see the finished product you will feel differently and honestly there are a great many catamarans from what I see that have a forward tramp stock or custom on youtube. My goals for it again are to be able to load it up with my cooler, towels, all my kids stuff, and when we are having our typical 10 MPH winds days here have a place for the kids to sit and enjoy the ride while getting wet. Neither my wife nor I will probably ever go up there as we will be mostly doing the sailing work on the main tramp. This does not preclude the front hulls from doing their job punching thru waves and if you are thinking when the wind is cranking and you are hanging way out on the tramp pushing the edge the only thing up there will probably be the cooler!! Let's face it there is not enough room on the tramp on anything short of a 20 footer to be really useful for anything but sailing. The design I have in mind will not really affect the sailing traits of the boat in high winds situations as there will not be anyone on there at that time anyway. Try to think of it this way. I am trying to have my cake and eat it too. I want a fast Nacra ex-boy racer style catamaran that I can take out with my wife or alone when it is really windy and try to see just how fast I can go. Then on the other hand I want a comfortable cruiser that my wife and the kids and I can leisurely cruise around the lake on when the wind is not too bad. Does that make sense? I do not want another boat, The Hobie Getaway is almost as much as a decent used powerboat. and I really like the way the Nacra looks.... SO I am gonna try to make it the very best boat I can and at the same time make it more usable for my whole family. If all you do with your boat is race and take it out in a gale to try to push the limits then I completely understand why you would say this is a bad idea. That is three people of varying experience now that have said it is not the best idea so I GET that... Now FOR THE LAST TIME!! Please unless you have something constructive to add about HOW best to go about building this front tramp idea of mine then I do not want to hear about what a bad idea it is anymore. Alright....

The Cables of the mast both the stanchions( if that is what they are called) and the forestay look to be in good shape and YES I have personally inspected every inch as we have been taking ALL the rigging for the mast down after every trip and we coil it up on the tramp. If there was a broken wire I am quite sure my wife or I would have been cut by it by now. I also inspected the crimps on the eyelets near the top of the mast for corrosion or damage. So far I have not seen anything to be the least bit alarmed about. It appears that maybe someone has replaced them at least somewhat recently. I SERIOUSLY doubt they are nearly 30 years old like the rest of the boat. Honestly if you look at the pictures of the boat I think you can see that SOMEBODY loved it and at least took decent care of it. It looks used but not used up. I really think that when I get the hulls sanded a bit and then some nice new white on them it will look like a MUCH newer boat than it is.

It would really be nice to be able to order a package deal of rigging brand new from a pro-supplier for the boat since it theoretically would have the proper lines in the proper lengths for this boat and might actually save me some money. Again I was NOT able to buy the rope line for the boat from the lady at the hardware store because she basically wants to sell the large bundles she has there in whole pieces. I checked into that Murrays website and while they seem to have everything for the boat they are also pretty proud of their stuff and price it accordingly. I am gonna see what they have for Nacra 5.2 specific packages and maybe I can buy all of the stuff I need in one large package. I would really like to color coordinate the boat in white, blue, and black and I am working with my friend on graphics packages in those colors. We will see where this goes but right now I am just enjoying having a nice cat to go out on. Peace

Pete

Quote

Honestly maybe I am a little thin skinned here but It seems like I am getting less of ideas about what to do and a whole lot about what not to do.

I do not think thin skinned is the proper term. We are just trying to save you money, time, grief, and possibly injury. Instead you have argued at every turn. Good luck to you.

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Nacra 5.2
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golfdad75

Quote

Honestly maybe I am a little thin skinned here but It seems like I am getting less of ideas about what to do and a whole lot about what not to do.

I do not think thin skinned is the proper term. We are just trying to save you money, time, grief, and possibly injury. Instead you have argued at every turn. Good luck to you.

I do not see where I have argued at every turn at all, In fact I was quite appreciative of your help over the phone. It is sad that you feel this way.

I guess I have overstayed my welcome here.... Good luck to all of you and thanks for the advice. peace

Pete

Pete,
If you are still around, don't take things too personally on here. People like myself, Golfdad and prelives are genuinely concerned for your safety based on our experience - some of us just express ourselves differently. We are generally pretty laid back here compared to any other sailing forum, (just go over to sailing anarchy to see ;) ). We all have our own opinions. And pretty much everyone on here is a stickler for new standing rigging, weather you feel you need to change it or not it's your choice. Sorry if I offended I just wanted to make sure you knew how serious we take inspecting that rigging and what to look for if you didn't know.

There is nothing wrong with wanting a front tramp or modding your boat to suit your style. Like I said I have done plently of things that were ill recommended, some worked some didn't, no harm done in the end. Most of us have been through similar pain however, so we tend to point out the pitfalls. I try to be as positive as possible but I also overshare like nobodies business. You don't have to take my advice but I give it anyway, especially on running and standing rigging because I have wasted a pile o money on different things until I found what worked for me. McMaster Carr is a good source for boat stuff (I can't get it delivered here in Canada unfortunately) it generally sells much of the same hardware as you will find at a marine store, clevis pins, stainless rivets, ring dings, etc. You can probably get the wire, swager and fittings from them to make new rigging just fine. Murray's is not cheap, but it is cheaper and easier to buy the Nacra 5.2 rigging package from them or Salty Dog than any other rigger. What you can get from a rigger is custom specced rigging for your boat.

Hopefully you will change your mind and stay with us. There is a lot of info, advice and ideas to be had and probably the largest group of Nacra 5.2 owners in North America. Best to just let this thread go and start fresh, and don't worry too much about weather we agree with you or not. Take the advice for what its worth and do what you think is best for you.

Regards,
Dave

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Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Wolfman,
Understand that I DO appreciate all of the advice I have received here. I guess I just got tired of hearing about how I should NOT do the front tramp. Again it is a done deal. It will get done as time permits. Right now I am just gonna enjoy sailing my rig around the lakes and rivers here in Tennessee. I also agree that the standing rigging is important and honestly after seeing some of the prices on Saltydog I may just go that route for simplicities sake. The website said their lines are plastic coated or something and that they use some kinda special swaging for the end pinnings. For the prices of around $150.00 I can get all brand new standing rigging for the boat and that is a bargain compared to the prices for Stainless cabling I have been seeing. My only concern is that their Nacra 5.2 kit would fit my older boat. I am just gonna hafta call them and see when I get ready to do that.

I am right now gonna try to get my hulls refinished in white in prep for the graphics my friend is working on. This will be a slow process probably as I am enjoying the boat and do not really want to take it down until the summer is over and then I will not really be using it too much so it will not be missed. That and we will HOPEFULLY be back down in Florida by then. I cannot wait to run this baby in the intercoastal waterway and out in the ocean. That is gonna be awesome..!! peace

Pete

Please post pics of the front tramp after and during fabrication.

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Gray Amick
Chapin, SC
'77 NACRA 5.2
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Yeah that got a little out of hand, although it really depends on how you take the responses. On the internet nobody knows you're a cat. :)

There are a few boats with effective front tramps. I think what everyone was questioning was if you would ever be able to use it. Truth is, you probably won't be able to use it for anything but storage in heavy winds but I don't think that was your intent. For cruising around the lake with the wife and kids in light winds it should be fine.

Also I'm beginning to feel that not every 5.2 is created equally. I keep hearing about how hard it is to right them, yet I dumped solo last week and I feel that I hardly had to lean out on the righting line to get it to right. Also some appear to be more prone to digging in than others. So each seems to have a personality of its own, who the heck knows...

The one thing the 5.2 could use is more storage space on the tramp, so there are definitely some interested people...

Enough said.

D.

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Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Gray,
I will definitely take pics and I am still in the planning stages. It should be cool tho. I feel like it would be a real benefit for the boat. I am not sure about what to use as far as size for the front beam just yet but I am working on that. It always helps to have friends who are engineers!! The fellow I am making these recumbent bikes for seemed very interested in the boat and the project as well. I am hoping I can get my other friend to do some of the graphics for me for cheap or free if I let him put some advertisement on the boat. Gotta see how we can come up with something cool yet subtle...

Wolfman,
I agree on the differing views of the 5.2. For instance the forward flotation on mine as I said seems to be pretty great. Again I have only had it in high winds that day of the storm and then we were in survival mode so I am not sure about that just yet but right now in medium to low winds it performs very well and the hulls seem to just slice thru the waves with ease and the only time I have seen the tips come even close to going under was when a very large Yacht powered across our track and left a mammoth wake for us to deal with. Honestly it was pretty easy to deal with and that kinda surprised me coming from a mostly powerboat background where you gotta slow down quite a bit to avoid that hammering you get from large wakes like that. The nacra bobbed a bit but for the most part just cut thru and kept going. Honestly it seems like very small close together wakes seem to make more commotion for the boat. It kinda makes the mast and boom shake back and forth quite a bit especially if there is little wind....

I hope to get back out on the boat again soon and see how my sideloaders and my trap bungees perform. The wind looks pretty good today and my wife is off but the kids are back in school and she has to work this weekend. I wish I could right that mast myself because I would take it out solo but it is a bear really even with my new mast raising setup with the trailer winch. There is just no good way to control it until it is most of the way up and the stanchions are not loose anymore. I thought about some kinda lines to the sides of the main beam temporarily up there until the mast is raised but I am afraid to try it. That and the damn anti-rotator pungee stick is a problem until the mast is a ways up. Besides I cannot crank it and steady the mast at the same time anyways.... How do you do it solo? Peace

Pete

Yeah, when you are out in a day with big waves and are taking them at an angle the front will likely dig more than you have seen. Taking them head on, the hull shape works really well. You should see the newer F18s with the swept back bows cut through waves, very impressive! With the 5.2 it depends a lot on the 'sea state' and the direction of the waves with respect to the boat.

Solo mast raising. Now you have opened a can of worms!;) It is not easy. For cranking you need a 'Gin Pole'
setup to get enough leverage in the right direction. This is just a 8-10' pole with a pully over the top mounded on the trailor near the front beam that redirects your force for you. You attache 2 trap line to the front beam temporarily to stop side sway and a bungee to the mast rotator to the front beam so it stays rotated. If you have a double trap you can use one of the other trap lines to raise with. Otherwise you have to make sure your bows are pointed downhill, raise using the forestay and temporarily brace the mast while you get the forestay down from the pole to attach it.


Or you can do the heave ho method. Get a 10 ft step ladder. Connect the bridles together using a bow shackle and with a single block on them. Put a v cleat about waist high on the mast (3-4 ft from the bottom). Run a line from the forestay, throught the block on the bridles and back through the v cleat on the mast. Put the ladder near the rear beam. Put the mast on the step and heave it up in the rotated position until you can rest it on the ladder. THis gives you a rest point to get up on the tramp. Tighten the line on the forestay-bridle- cleat connection. Heave the mast up the rest of the way. At the top you should be able to hold it with one hand. Tighten the cleat again so it won't move when you get down from the tramp. Tie off the mast to the trailor tongue using one of the trap lines so that you can remove the forestay line, pulley etc and properly install the forestay, bridles and pin adjuster.

Either way it's kind of like patting your head and rubbing your stomach while chewing gum at the same time. You need to get it straight in your head before you do it.

Or you can get the Mast Stepper III which does it all for you.

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Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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I think most of the friction on this thread is caused by:

• You asked for ideas on a 5.2 tramp but no one has built or seen one.
  
• Written communication can be harder than face to face.
  
• The 5.2 really does have lower volume hulls than similar length cats, hence the skepticism.
  
• Some folks can't resist input despite never having done the thing.

You've mentioned that you are a fabricator, so fab it! Like you say, if it doesn't work you can remove it. If it does work it will be very cool!

Lots of variables, total crew weight is big, but also water surface, what might work out in a lake might not work as well in open water. It might help if you can build up the new front beam higher than the hull decks to avoid having it constantly plow through the water. The Getaway tramp that was mistaken for a 5.2 and started the front tramp discussion is level with the decks, but go look at a Getaway in person, the hulls are very tall and wide compared to your 5.2.

So please create an album for the project in Beachcats Technical, and document your work as you go, from design to sea trials!

"The proof of the pudding is in the eating."

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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

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Guys,
Right now I have been doing the mast thing this way....

First I get the mast off the trailer and move it back to where it is at least near the little ball and socket setup. Then I hook the port and starboard Stanchion cables up on like the second pin from the top. Next I pay the trap lines and the rest of the sagging lines out the back of the trailer on the ground. Next I take the winch line for the trailer off the boat and I put it thru the pulley and bracket I machined at the top of the trailer vertical that is used to hold the mast up when trailering. Then I take it and put the hook for the boat thru the forestay and start to crank down on the winch. Once the slack is out I go to the back of the boat and my wife goes to the winch and once I get the rear of the mast going up as high as I can lift it she cranks it up and I just steady it on the tramp. It works VERY well this way as long as you are careful and remember that DAMN anti-rotator bar. SO to do it by myself I would need to be able to get it steadied from side to side and then make some kinda pole with a vee in it to hike it up high enough to start cranking it safely. The interesting thing about a pole with a vee in it is that if you can secure it at the back say in the center of the trailer somehow it could actually kinda fall with the mast as the mast goes up and therefore remain in contact with the mast should something fail possibly saving it from a catastrophic fall. It seems like a person could weld up a sort of vee shaped pivoting arm on some simple hinges that is bolted to the trailer and put a tube down the center of the vee, then put this pole inside the tube. Get behind the trailer and lift the mast as far as you can and then lay it in the cradle of the other padded vee at the top of the pole. This should get you high enough that the stanchion lines will keep things in check until it is fully righted. It would then be a simple matter of pulling the forstay cable off the winch cable and connect it to the bridle. Of course talking with Golfdad I know now that I should not be removing the stanchion cables after every trip and I should have the bungees attatched to the trap cables all the time. Once we take the boat out this time I plan to get the trap cables bungeed properly with my new setups here and the only reason I have not already is because I do not know how long to make them until the mast is erected..

Damon,
I think you are right on about the tramp both in the reasons the thread went bad as well as the idea that the new forward beam should be higher than the hulls. I have been looking at the boat and taking measurements for this a lot lately especially since this conversation started and my plan has ALWAYS been for the new front beam to be atop the hulls and as I said tig welded to some aluminum plates attatched to the tops of the hulls. Now it would be a simple matter to raise the beam atop some standoffs but there is the issue of the weight pulling it towards the back of the boat wanting to lever and tear the plates out of the hull face. I think that I will probably end up using some extruded aluminum beams for the new front beam and tig weld it to some CNC machined arrowhead shaped plates that I will SOMEHOW attatch to the hulls. The beam will be towards the back of the arrowheads and the arrowheads will be behind the non-slip tread on the top of the hull. If you look at the boat and take a tape measure and place it against the main beam where the mast attaches it the new beam will be basically four feet from that point. It will be ninety inches wide at that point and will span the width of the non-skid section of the top of the hulls. That makes for a four foot wide by the width of the hull useable space and you still have more than fifty inches of hull out in front of that.... If your hulls are going underwater more than that on a trip you are about to pitchpole pretty badly I think.... Again, I think that this additional space would make for a GREAT place for the kids to ride and the coolers and other junk that should not be on the trampoline. I think I will make the attatchment plates from 1/4 or 5/16 thick /aluminum plate and make them wide and long to acheive maximum attatchment safety. The rest will be relatively simple as I said with probably some eyelets and a rod to attatch the back end of the tramp to the main beam or perhaps if I can get this trampoline material sewn up with some webbing loops I will just use some chord to tighten the tramp much like the main tramp. I really do not see why this would not work and make for a little more usable boat. Even in rough weather it is far enough back to not be a concern I would think. this is even back behind where the bridles attach to the hulls by quite a bit. I know the hulls slice and bury out in the ocean quite a bit but I have not seen any video where the hulls submerged that much unless the boat was about to pitchpole... Does this still sound like a hairbrained idea? I sure can see my kids sitting in that four foot area in front of the mast enjoying the ride already.... haha

I was looking at the getaway boat a bit today when I ate my lunch on youtube and the tramp on that boat actually attatches to a front beam way up at the bow of the boat that actually pierces both hulls down below the top of the hulls. I can see why you say that the getaway's hulls are much taller and wider than the Nacra's then. It would have to be to keep any excess weight from burying the bow all the time. I have also seen video of two adult girls riding up there (looking good too I might add) and it was out in the ocean on a mild day. No problems at all. Mine will be WAY back from where that boat's front beam is and considerably higher up in the hull too...

Anyways, I cannot wait to see today's footage of the America's Cup. My wife and I have been watching it on youtube all day and she said she did not like the America's cup because it was boring before but now that the Cat's are playing and they KINDA sorta look like our boat (NOT!!) she all of a sudden is yelling at the screen and cheering on the American teams. It is kinda cool really to see how the big boys play and what a state of the art cat looks like. I love the wings for mainsails and how they can be articulated like that. It does seem tho that they have trouble keeping it under control. When the hulls start to fly on that time trial they seemed to always let out too much air with them and then they are back on both hulls dragging water. Of course it is not as simple as all that but I did notice most of the boats seemed to exhibit the same problems. Is there two grinders for the main and one is the rearward and one is the pivot? It is hard to tell. I also noticed that the faster boats seemed to have a different grinder setup than the slower ones did. I am not sure I am even using the right terms here but when I say grinders I am talking about the little man powered capstans they are always constantly cranking on. Also what is the reasoning for the reversed curve of the tips of the hulls? It seems like the angle of the cut would actually make the hulls want to bury instead of float despite their knife edge side profile. I am sure there is tons of hours of aquadynamic research into those hulls but they sure seem to be backwards. They look cool as hell tho... That Cat racing sure looks like a lot of fun and very challenging.....Maybe I will get better at sailing this dinghy of mine and chase down some other cats out on the lake if I see em'....haha Peace

Pete

Your "Stanchion cables" = shrouds

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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

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Cool man, thanks for the tip....

When winching your mast up attach the winch to one of your rear trap lines instead of your forstay. That way once you have it winched all the way up the mast is secure while you attach the forestay. Once the forestay is attached return the trap line to it's original position.

Use a rear once because you want to attach the 2 front one as close to the outside edge of your from beam so you can to control sway from side to side. I know some have said to bungee but I think bungee is a bad idea with to much give. I actually use a piece of tie down strapping cut from one of my tie downs on each side. When the mast is up I use these to pull the traps forward to the beam(I also leave them connected to their shock cord). Do not make them to tight they just need to provide a little deterrent from moving side to side. When the mast is down I leave these in place so the length is the same when I put the mast up. I only take them off after the mast is up and ready to sail and put them back on before dropping the mast for trailering.

For your V take 2 8 10 ft Black ABS pipe Drill a hole through both at the same point about a foot or so from one end and put a long bolt through both creating a hinge between the 2. Connect a small rope between the bottom ends as a preventer to keep them from opening very far. Notch your mast in the V made by the top and push the mast up till on a good angle for the winch to get it. As the mast goes up it will fall so make sure no one is in the way or else you could connect a 3rd shorter piece with a hinge to the other ones and a similar preventer to make a tripod.

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Dustin Finlinson • Magna, UT
Member: Utah Sailing Association
1982 Prindle 18
1986 Hobie 17
1982 Prindle 16
1980 Prindle 16(mostly)
1976 Prindle 16(mostly)
Check out "Prindle Sailors" on Facebook.
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