Hello!

I've been lurking for a couple of years and finally signed up for an account.

So long story short, my wife and I are experienced big boat sailors and sea kayakers (in cold climates like BC). I'm trying to get a handle on whether a decent sized beach cat is the right boat for an extended expedition through the Inside Passage.

We've taught sailing, done some time offshore and owned our own 35' cruiser and we've learned our lesson. Big boats are fun but they sure own your life and your bank account. Now I'm wondering whether an older 18-20 foot beach catamaran might be well suited to 7-10 day expeditions along the BC and WA coast south of Port Hardy. The idea is that what we might compromise in comfort might be gained in speed and hopefully, fun.

I've been thinking about it for a couple of years and it seems to me like it's all do-able. However, I'm a cautious guy and I haven't found evidence of other people doing this before (at least to the extent where they might offer some detailed advice).

I realize that we probably have a bunch of lessons and experience-building ahead to make sure we really like the idea and have mastery over the boat. That said, I've kind of dumped out what's been running through my head so far (partly 'cause it's been making me nuts thinking about this).

Would y'all check me on my thinking (unless I really do need to have my head examined)? I'm sure that there's lots of details missing here so feel welcome to comment.

Suggested boat:
* Used Nacra Inter 18 or 20? Hobie Tiger? Or something heavier like a Hobie SE20?
* Something light enough for two people to land and secure?

Safety:
* The basic Coast Guard / MOT safety, while a must, isn't sufficient. However, weight is an issue so discretion has to prevail
* Excellent drysuit, inflatable horseshoe PFD, high-quality handheld VHF and a set of flares are required for each person ...
* Add'l emergency equipment includes first aid, righting device, small anchor ...
* Emergency training involves a solid standard operating procedures for righting, MOB and emergency landing in rough conditions ...
* Um - what boats allow you to reef the mainsail?
* Add'l training involves boat handling to ensure safe operation and maximum cruising performance ...

Household:
* This is basically a hybrid of cycle touring and sea kayaking, so there won't be much comfort!
* Carry sleeping bags & mats (synthetics), a cycle touring tent, the lightest stove and pot (singular) possible
* Dehydrated food is standard fare. Budget generously for restaurant meals when they are available.
* A single change of clothes for overnight / onshore
* Kayaking dry bags stowed on the tramp (this is where I'm stumped - surely there must be a better solution?)

Passage Planning & Logistics:
* Plan open water passages to keep exposure limited to 60-90 minutes maximum for wind and sailing conditions on a given day.
* 20 knots of wind locally observed is the safety cut-off
* Sailing plans are filed daily by email with a trusted party via smartphone (for weather and communications)
* Alternately, look at a SPOT personal tracker
* Laminated strip charts, sighting compass and/or a handheld GPS?
* Tourism brochure with B&B listings (not kidding)
* Solar panels for the radios and the GPS

Spare Parts & Tools
* Advice?

Training and Preparation
* Physical training involves lots of swimming at the pool!
* Other things we should be doing?

Am I on the right track here or should I just buy another kayak?

Dave

Stiletto 27...

Quote

* Kayaking dry bags stowed on the tramp (this is where I'm stumped - surely there must be a better solution?)

I've always thought these deck port access storage bags were a great option.



Good Luck :)
&
Let us know how it goes!

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NACRA 18 SQ uared

Okanagan, BC, Can
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HARDCORE MOTHER SUCKERS

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The Bone
H16
Mass / NH
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http://harrypidgeonproductions.com/

check these guys out...they are sailing up the east coast on the intercoastal on a hobie 18...right up your ally!

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Check out "Prindle Sailors" on Facebook!
bill harris
hattiesburg, mississippi
prindle 16- "BLUE RIBBON"
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I think it is doable, & no you are not nuts. My sister used an ocean kayak & spent nearly two months going around the Queen Charlotte's some years ago. I used to sail on a Rafiki 38 with a friend through the Gulf Islands & have done a few float plane trips up to Hakai & Rivers Inlet moving salmon fisherman. B.C. as you know has a wonderful system of marine parks for over nighters.
You seem to have the cold water figured out, & you already know how to sail. If you are spartan enough to camp from a bike or sea kayak, you can carry that amount of gear on a 20-21 Cat. Short of putting large hatches (much bigger than the little ports made for Cats, more like the hatches on seaplane floats)I don't know of anything else but dry bags on the tramp for gear. I have a 19' Nacra, & though I have not overnighted, we have done day trips carrying a lot of crap, including lawn chairs! ( My wife does not like going Native) Having a clean uncluttered tramp was a bonus.
Beaching on an exposed shore could be problematic, but you're not on the rough shores like Bamfield or Ucluelet. The rocky steep shores would be really tough, you would need to plan for the small beaches that frequent that area. A Cat can be easily slid if some driftwood is laid out.
I have not done any sailing North of Desolation Sound, I know the chuck narrows way down north of there. I don't know if the winds would be pretty fluky through there from Port Hardy to Campbell River.
I have never used one, but some sailors have a little mount (Cheta) that hold a 2 h.p. kicker. That might be a really good thing for when you need/want to move somewhere & the wind isn't working. You are obviously aware of the tidal range out there, & the speeds that some of them rip through the narrows. I remember once coming through Active Pass & jockeying for space with BC Ferries. ( We were close enough to notice that the ferry had removed all the safeties from the anchors, & had a man with a sledge hammer standing beside the wedge, ready to let it go. That was back in the '80s after they ran over some fool fishing right in the channel at max tide!)
You also are familiar with the wide range of winds. We once had the big rags up on a fairly calm day, when the outflow winds (katabatic) came suddenly pouring out of Howe Sound, resulting in rough seas & the toe rail in the water.
Personally I would define the mission. If I wanted to spend 10 days, & travel south to Salt Spring , Friday Harbour or Washington return, I would go with one of the Tri's that give you a little more comfort, & a way to motor in case you ended up with 5 days of calm. Of course if you are willing to bike or live out of a kayak for several weeks, why not a Cat? There are a few people on here who load up & sail to an Island, then camp & do day sails from that base. The Inside Passage should be doable, & I've seen crab pots that fold flat!
I'll look for the link, I know there is a group of Cat sailors out there who do some skookum trips. I think they did 1000 miles around the Island one year. I believe they utilize a chase boat for hauling gear. There are a bunch of Cats off Jericho Beach in Van. You could spend a few days there & see if you could sail on some of the 21s.
I say go for it, take some photos & post 'em here. Think of the fresh salmon & crab dinners you could enjoy, while camped on a beach with no one else around. You have the required skills & some modern technology helps with the weather intel.



Edited by Edchris177 on Oct 25, 2011 - 07:12 AM.

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Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
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Took a Prindle 16 270 miles up Lake Michigan years ago. Slept on the tramp every night. Learned a lot from it. Best boat in my opinion would be a Prindle 18 with P-16 rig & spinnaker at around 335 #'s. You've got to think of beaching on a rocky shore. The round bottom boats will be too fragile. Most 18's & 20's too heavy. The 335 # boat will be 400 #'s when loaded--that's enough. I've actually made two 18's for expeditions. One is for sale in Sacramento. Changed the screw in hatches for Viking like on kayaks. Put bulkheads & floor beneath hatches so had watertight area in hulls 18" x 36". Carry the sleeping bags in glycine bags tied to boom. You want the deck clean for sailing. The shorter P-16 rig will be fine with spin for downwind yet easy to right and it's reefable. Very easy to put a small tramp forward for carrying light stuff. A light tarp over boom is fine for clear nights, but I would design a better enclosure for the inevitable 2 day rain. Think light. You've got tides & will have to pull boat 6' up the beach. Pete

http://www.helmdesign.com/polar-01.html

And that as they say, is that.

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Nacra 6.0 NA
Ogden Dunes, IN
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might consider putting some things in one of your kayaks and towing it behind you to free up some deck space/cut weight on the boat.

Hey all ...

Thanks for the great suggestions. A few (among all the many excellent ideas) that stand out for me:

* Liking the mini-tramp ahead of the mast and retrofitting the kayak hatches
* Appreciate the links to the Kingfisher and Perception people
* Interested in the idea of camping on the tramp
* Appreciate reminders about tides, currents and rocky shores

I also appreciated the mission / base camp comment - a week in Bamfield or in Barkley Sound might be even more fun that the long haul from Hardy. Better yet, the boat can go as deck cargo on the Mary Rose and we can take all the beer we want! That said, the wife likes mileage and doesn't feel like a day is complete without at least 50 miles under her belt.

Now barring the idea that we might actually have a relaxing vacation, back to long haul logistics. The most common problem seems to be overloading. Towing a tender / kayak doesn't seem to have been that workable for either the Kingfisher folks (who claim their inflatable. cut their speed in half) or the Perception guys (who completed their run without their kayak).

Puzzled about the boat suggestions which range from 27' (at 1100 lbs) down to 18' (at 335 lbs). Been told the Mystere 6.0 are supposed to excellent for this kind of thing but they appear to be out of production. Am wondering about a early 2000's Nacra F18 - prices fit our budget and the weight is about 390 lbs. Maybe we need to be thinking about volume/carrying capacity and overall weight. Any thoughts on boats with great payload relative to weight? That might be a dopey question given that catamarans are supposed to be about speed, not hauling capacity.

Reefing is still a big question mark too - looks like you can sort of reef the old Hobie 18, I think we need something with more volume in the hulls.

Keep those cards and letters coming!

Dave

PS: Thomas - I'll take hardcore as a compliment!

ANY small cat can be reefed (albiet better done before you leave shore). Reef patches & grommets can be sewn in & pigtails attached to halyards. I have cruised thru the North Channel of Georgian Bay (above Lake Huron) for a week on a Stiletto 27 and while pleasant enough, not amenable to beaching on rocky shores--need to anchor out in a protected cove. Stop the wondering & rent/borrow a 400# boat, put a 100#'s on it (you'll have at least 32#'s water for two days out) and practice beaching the boat over the tide line & up a slope of 4-6'. The guys on the Northwest Passege voyage were afraid of capsize as they couldn't right their 460 # H-18 with wings loaded with all the food & water needed. You must have everything stowed away & be able to right from capsize in my opinion. A P-18 will carry two people and 100 #'s gear easily and its V shaped bottom (which can even be re-inforced) will slide over rocks leaving only gel coat tracks. A 100 #'s makes a big difference. I cannot pull a H-18 (420) onto its trailer myself, but a P-16 (300) is easy to do alone. Light weight & ease righting from capsize are critical to enjoying peace of mind long range cruising. Pete

h18 is the f18 of yesteryear(two decades ago). I say go for the f18 with its additional forward hull volume and spinnaker.

also, check this out

http://www.cruisersforum.…ail-to-alaska-44189.html

FOG and boat traffic seems to be the biggest issue.



Edited by matt922 on Oct 25, 2011 - 10:15 PM.

i could see how an inflatible or other tender would slow the boat down a lot because their hulls are more designed for stability than speed. but i think a nice sea kayak with a skeg would track nicely behind the boat and be easy to pull as it is designed to cut through the water.

If you want some real information on cruising, call Bill 760-366-3470. He single-handed a P-18 down the Sea of Cortez from San Felipe to Bay of Los Angeles last year about 400 miles. Pete

Thanks for the head's up on the distinction between the H and the F18's.

Fair point about the kayak. Would be interesting to experiment with on a couple of trial runs.

Thanks also, Pete, for the advice. I like the "stop talking, try doing" advice but we're in Calgary, Alberta and winter is about to hit. Not sure what there are for 18' cats here (any one?). The points about weight are also well taken.

Dave

Check out this site. The did the Northwest passage on an H18.
http://www.helmdesign.com/polar-01.html

These guys crossed the Atlantic on a Beach Cat?

http://yachtpals.com/sailing-catamaran-7024





Edited by nl_expatriate on Oct 28, 2011 - 09:57 PM.

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NACRA 18 SQ uared

Okanagan, BC, Can
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