Does anyone have any criteria other than 'size of wallet' on whether to buy new or used? I am seeing slim pickings for sale. I am wary of driving 400 miles to look at a boat that might be junk.

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Ted
Hobie 16
South Carolina Lake sailing
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one design performance racing or family fun? big boat or 16 ish? some big decesions here...prices can be shocking! the industry needs folks like you! good luck.

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Check out "Prindle Sailors" on Facebook!
bill harris
hattiesburg, mississippi
prindle 16- "BLUE RIBBON"
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Ask for some help on this blog.. Folks are eager to help when you are just starting. Got a ad 400 miles a way. List it here and ask for help. cant imagine anyone here sccoping your deal. And you gain a friend to sail with. Cept Bill . He runs a marketing firm for boat dealers. Watch him vewery closely. Take it from one who knows.. Sharp cookie but heart?? Interested in a vacation in california?? I will send you home with a boat. Honist Hals useed cats.. he he he... H

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Hal Liske
Livermore CA
H 16 (6+ 1.. Friends) H 3.2 N 5.2 (2) H 17 (2) H-18
Nacra 5.8 (son's) H 20 (Friends)
It's a Sickness

I Need a A Cat Please
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yelkenli1

Does anyone have any criteria other than 'size of wallet' on whether to buy new or used? I am seeing slim pickings for sale. I am wary of driving 400 miles to look at a boat that might be junk.

If you eliminate wallet size then it's no contest.

New is better.

Preferably from your local dealer who is then obligated to support your new boat under warranty.

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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

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Mainly family fun. I could race, but in my area, there are only H18s, Vipers, A cats, maybe some other formula 18 cats. I worked race committee with a cat racer and that size seems to rule the race circuit. This might be out of my league. 16ish with no dagger boards, fairly robust is the target.

searching nacra, hobie, prindle
in PA
http://philadelphia.craig….org/boa/3054030156.html
NC
http://asheville.craigsli….org/boa/3053916822.html
GA
http://savannah.craigslist.org/boa/3039668291.html
AL
http://atlanta.craigslist…/atl/boa/3050830468.html

Let me know if anyone knows about these boats, or your thoughts.

Also:
I am targeting a cat as the sail area is large and they can scoot along quickly. On a lake with less wind than a coastal harbor, I would think this would be good (would still rather have the harbor). Shifty and gusty wind is a disadvantage for a cat versus a monohull. I heard one guy at the club assert that a lake would not have enough wind for a catamaran. What are your thoughts on that?

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Ted
Hobie 16
South Carolina Lake sailing
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I'll toss in a couple of other thoughts: Are you in it to sail or to do boat restoration? And how handy are you with a wrench? With epoxy and fiberglass? With painting?

Not trying to scare anyone or anything. But getting a used boat is kind of like getting a classic Mustang. If the goal is simply to go fast, it's better to get a new Mustang. If the goal is to restore a classic and be a badass, learn to love tightening all the chrome bits that like to fall off your car. If the goal is to get a project car you lavish your attention on and wind up with a gorgeous piece of art in the end, get the classic and live the dream. But be ready to spend all your weekends under the hood 'till it's running.

Me, personally, I love the idea that I'm restoring a classic (boat, not 'Stang). But I sure's heck wish my wallet was bigger and I could've bought new!

Tom

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Tom Benedict
Island of Hawaii
P-Cat 18 / Sail# 361 / HA 7633 H / "Smilodon"
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i race on a hobie 16 but just for the fun of it, there are sailors who are very competitive, and sailors who just like to be out on a boat.

as for the ads, the first two are gone, the third is for a hobie 16, 1000 bucks for a cat with trailer and cat trax is a reasonable price, there is a buyers guide floating that gets linked to a lot in this forum or search on the web. the last one is a prindle sixteen and it looks like it is in real good shape, a fresh water boat, again at 1850 appears reasonable.

there are windy lakes, it does not take much to get any cat going.

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Kenneth Purdy
Hobie 16
Nacra 5.2 (2)
Banshee
First Coast, Florida
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Quote

16ish with no dagger boards, fairly robust is the target.

that's a prindle 16...since you are not averse to dropping a little cash, find a solid used one and get a new square top main and jib made for it, fresh tramp, fresh standing rigging, running rigging, and there you are...tell 'em honest hal sent you!

just looked @ the prindle, nice boat seems...may not have to spend much to sail this season.



Edited by coastrat on Jun 04, 2012 - 08:11 PM.

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bill harris
hattiesburg, mississippi
prindle 16- "BLUE RIBBON"
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Ted, I have a 1984 Prindle 16 for sale that is in excellent condition I live in Greenville SC Check your messages for all the info

Batman

Ted, I have a 1984 Prindle 16 for sale that is in excellent condition I live in Greenville SC Check your messages for all the info

Welcome to TheBeachcats.com Batman, please introduce yourself in a separate thread so we can get to know you.

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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

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The Prindle's got my vote but if your group seems to be bigger boats maybe look for a Prindle 18 or 18.2. Are you looking to sail alone or always have crew?

That first H 16 does look pretty loaded though. I don't think you could go wrong their unless your a fatty like me then go with a Prindle for sure.

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Dustin Finlinson • Magna, UT
Member: Utah Sailing Association
1982 Prindle 18
1986 Hobie 17
1982 Prindle 16
1980 Prindle 16(mostly)
1976 Prindle 16(mostly)
Check out "Prindle Sailors" on Facebook.
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That Prindle looks pretty nice. Price seems a little high unless it's close to perfect. I admit I'm biased, but an overall census seems that Prindles are a more forgiving, more stable boat. And I am 100% happy to sail one. The owner has everything you need, and the trailer sounds really good (which is a huge plus). Prindle 16 sounds like it fits your criteria too. I sail a P16 solo often and rigging/setup/launching/sailing can all be done without help. Every other cat owner I meet is enthusiastic about seeing my P16.

For these ads, unless the seller says everything is in good or great shape, "ready to sail tomorrow", then please be cautious. Remember they're trying to get what could potentially be junk, off their hands, so lines like "previous owner says hulls were ok last time it was used, boat has sat in my backyard for 5 years" probably means you'd be wasting your time to look at a boat. Alternatively, a seller who has photo's of the boat on the water from earlier this year, then on the trailer, then where its stored, maybe even points out little nicks in the rudders or something small, that means they're probably not BSing you and just ready to hand their well cared-for boat over to a new owner. Anything that suggests needing work done, 99% of the time garuantees you'll be spending more money and time before being able to use the boat.

Lakes and oceans (or Bay's near oceans) have very different wind patterns. Lakes that are large enough.. maybe over 3000 sq acres tend to create a vaccuum wind pattern that centers the source of the wind in the middle of a lake and means more wind near all the shores, its odd someone would say that lakes wouldn't be good for a cat, if you're sailing alone just 8mph winds start to be fun, 10-12mph and you can fly.

There's a short book called "The Physics of Sailing Explained"

http://www.amazon.com/Physics-Sailing-Explained-Bryon-Anderson/dp/1574091700/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1338915328&sr=8-1

It's actually very helpful in explaining, well, er, the physics of sailing, without sounding like its intended for an audience of scientists. But the topics about wind on lakes vs. oceans has changed the way I sail on them. Also, there is good information about water and wind shearing (friction) off different points of the boat, things like that.

Back to your question, If this is your first cat, or first in a long time, I would suggest going used because you save a lot of money for your initial buy-in, and if something out of your control or an accident happens, you don't stand to lose as much. It might make sailing more relaxing for some people, knowing that "If I make a mistake here, its with a $1000 toy, not a $10,000 toy"

Also, if you're sailing with family or friends who don't know the ropes, having a lot less invested in the boat allows you (me at least) to treat every situation with a more lax attitude, and that'll keep your passengers wanting to come back for more.

Benedict makes a great point, if you buy used, the usual items that need to be replaced over time will eventually all cycle through their useful life, whether it be from month to month or year to year, but it might seem like week to week you've got another different project to fix before sailing next weekend. Doesn't necessarily mean you bought a piece junk, but rather you're using your badass classic.

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Redondo Beach, CA
'80 Prindle 16.
(Got it for free!)
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You know, that's a really good point about the lax attitude. At one point I was teaching someone how to back a boat onto a beach with an onshore wind. This was on a very well used and very well loved P-16. At the last minute the guy didn't spin the boat 180 into the wind, so we drove right up on the beach (a rocky beach, unfortunately) at a downwind run. It went several boatlengths before eventually grinding to a halt. We managed to pick it up and spin it around nose to wind. But the bottoms took a beating. We were laughing by the end of the day. (And yeah, by the end of the day he had the technique down.)

A couple of months later we were out at a different lake, and a guy was putting in a brand spankin' new Nacra. He got it up on his beach wheels, but then it tilted as they were rolling it and one of the hulls touched down. OHMIGAWD you should've heard that skipper yelling at their crew! Every little scratch is a Greek tragedy.

I drive beater cars. Makes sense I like used boats.

Tom

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Tom Benedict
Island of Hawaii
P-Cat 18 / Sail# 361 / HA 7633 H / "Smilodon"
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What part of SC are you in? I was on Hartwell last weekend with 4 people aboard, 2 on the traps and the other hiking and we were still flying a hull upwind. Plenty of wind for sure.

The boats in those links do not look all that exciting to me, except for the top H16. Consider looking at Hobie 18's as well. Really depends what your budget is, there was a Nacra 580 in VA for $3,500 recently that seemed like a great buy on an updated boat.

If your thinking less money or are in Greenville. I have a 84 Hobie 16 available for $750 with a trailer, Very solid hulls but will need some time and love before its a nice boat again.

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Greenville SC

Offering sails and other go fast parts for A-class catamarans
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I would say this looks like a pretty good deal.

http://columbia.craigslist.org/boa/3058843033.html



Edited by bacho on Jun 05, 2012 - 05:28 PM.

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Greenville SC

Offering sails and other go fast parts for A-class catamarans
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These are all great suggestions and comments. I get your point about lax attitude. I would be more concerned about caring for a new boat. I would not be too worried about handling it though. I was out in heavy wind this weekend on a monohull and capsized. Climbed to the center board and righted it no problem. It was great sailing. We got the boat to plane off on a broad reach. If only I had a cat!!

I am handy and could be successful at even fiberglass work. My initial focus was on boats that might need new running or standing rigging, with acceptable tramp and sails. That would not require a big project to get into shape.

So has anyone on this forum bought new or are only hard core racers in that game? Most of the discussion is on used boats.

klppurdy: why do you say the first two are gone? the first one will go fast, I agree with that.

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Ted
Hobie 16
South Carolina Lake sailing
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Buying new your options are not as much. For a 16' without board I can't think of any options beside a nacra 500, getaway or hobie 16. The 500 is a fun looking boat, add a spin for more performance. The getaway is a cruiser, it's cheaper but slower. The hobie 16 is a classic tried and true with a good racing class (although not in the upstate of sc) but it will lose value relativly quickly because there is a bajillion of used ones out there.

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Greenville SC

Offering sails and other go fast parts for A-class catamarans
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Quote

Shifty and gusty wind is a disadvantage for a cat versus a monohull. I heard one guy at the club assert that a lake would not have enough wind for a catamaran. What are your thoughts on that?

Nonsense. Catamarans have a better sail area to weight ratio which means they can go faster in lighter wind. I could see a catamaran being a bad idea on a small lake though, because you get across the lake too fast.

I have no idea why anyone would say shifty and gusty is a disadvantage for a cat vs a monohull. What was the rationale behind that comment?

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Daniel T.
Taipan F16 - USA 213
Clearwater, FL
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Welcome. I sail Lake Hartwell a good bit and it is plenty big. Nice to not have too many cabin cruisers like Lake Lanier. Bass boats, ski boats and pontoon boats don't ruin your day with huge wakes like a big displacement hull boats can. There is a neat little island near the dam- a nice place for a picnic when you are ready for a break from sailing. Lake level is a bit low this year and I have gotten a daggerboard or rudder stuck in the mud once or twice. Unfortunately, the winds are usually not that great, so no damage due to speed. Exception for winds was this past weekend, a weekend I COULDN'T go (grumbling). I'm sure there will be plenty of weekends this summer where I CAN go, but it will be hot, humid and NO wind, though. Even with light winds, lake sailing can be fun. My boat will move along even when I can't feel much wind at all. My experience has been that there is a pseudo sea breeze on Lake Hartwell in that late afternoon; the wind seems to come up around 4:30 or 5:00 for an hour or so before dying for the evening. Not sure of the physics of this. Lake Moultrie (sp?) and Keowee (sp?) look like they could be good, but I have never tried either.

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Eric C

Force 5 project boat
Unnamed

Previous boat
1980 Nacra 5.2
"Double Vision"
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Lake keowee has nice sailing, the water level is also much more consistent.

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Greenville SC

Offering sails and other go fast parts for A-class catamarans
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I gotta jump on the band wagon on the lake thing, too. I utterly disagree that a cat isn't the right boat for a lake. So far all my cat sailing experience has been on lakes in Central Texas. Lake Buchannan is 5mi x 25mi, and made for a helluvalot of fun sailing. But most of my time was spent on Lake Travis. Depending on how dry a year it was, that thing could be less than a mile across in places with cliffs on either side. Far from making it a lake that's no fun to sail, the cliffs and tight passages made for some outstanding aerodynamic features that would channel wind, make for patches where it blew twice ambient speed, all KINDS of fun stuff. Sailing on Travis was a riot. Racing on Lake Travis was even more fun because your performance on the water depended as much on your knowledge of the lake and the peculiar wind patterns as it did your knowledge of the craft.

The last of the bits for my boat finally showed up yesterday, and I'm about to get it out on the ocean. I'm looking forward to it. Don't get me wrong. But I'm still gonna miss lake sailing. It's a blast.

Tom

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Tom Benedict
Island of Hawaii
P-Cat 18 / Sail# 361 / HA 7633 H / "Smilodon"
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At this time in my life, I like lake sailing because that is the body of water next to me. We have had fun lake sailing. Some dead days, also known as swim days, and some really nice wind days. And I have seen some good regattas. So I won't complain. Hartwell and Keowee are in my area and I have sailed on both - 420s, JY15, Byte. I will have to try it with a cat.

Bacho, thanks for the links. Check your inbox and give me a call.

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Ted
Hobie 16
South Carolina Lake sailing
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I agree lake sailing is the best compared to the above lakes mine seems small with only 3mi by 1 mi. I live near lake michigan which I plan to sail this summer in killer wind.

Lake VS salt water, sail what you got ON A CAT. I have sailed east coast, west coast, gulf coast, north coast (lake Michigan) and lakes all over the midwest, it does not matter just go sailing. One thing about lake sailing is the boats hold up much better, salt water is a killer on most boat parts. We have boats from the 70s still going strong as they never corrode. New boats are like new cars they fall in value very fast and then they are all worth the condition they are in, I bought a 95 Nationals Hobie 18 in 03 for 4500 bucks, which was a lot for a used boat but it was pretty much perfect. My Nacra was about 3500 last year but came with a hooter rig. Buy something and remember to have fun.

Back to lakes: I sail almost exclusively on an inland corps of engineers lake in Kansas (yes there are sailors in KS). It is about 13,000 acres and about 7 miles end to end, we have a blast. It is deep enough to put rudders and boards down 20 ft from shore and has lots of room to sail. Since there is no private land we pull up on anything that looks like it might hold a beach cat open the cooler (soft sided clipped to the tramp) have a brew, butt float (sit on life jacket in the water) to cool off and go sailing again after a couple of cold ones. We have a race series at the club plus some other race events, some serious some not. Like it says in my sig, I have a Hobie 18 I sail for fun and racing and a Nacra 5.5 for racing mostly as my wife can no longer sail like we did years ago on the 18, so I have both and both were purchased used. Just remember to have fun.

Selection of boat is mostly what you want out of it. If all you want is fun, get a Hobie Getaway, fun, simple bullet proof, good for 1 to 4 people. If you want more get more boat. If you plan to sail in areas where it can be shallow (coastal areas with large sand bars etc) get a boat without dagger boards or one with self tending H-17 and 21 are the only I know or. Or get a keel bottomed boat that is not affected by shallow water, Hobie Getaway again would do the job. Just remember to have fun.

If you want competition get with the local cat club and see what everyone is sailing and get one. Be prepared to have your butt handed to you on the race course for a while. Most of the competitive cat sailors have been around a while and are pretty darn good. Most will share 'secrets' with you but it is all about tiller time. Just remember to have fun.

At our local group almost everyone has a H-18 we can screw around and no one is left way behind, which makes it more fun. Pick a budget and start looking at boats. Do not buy a project, that is for the second boat. In my opinion get a Hobie, there are more of them, they have a better parts network and are easier and cheaper to find. I have seen less than 20 prindles in my entire life, I have seen 125 Hobies in one place. Nothing against them they are just not as common as the Hobie boats. I had a hard time getting parts for my Nacra so I know what I am talking about. Get a decent boat, rig it before you buy it, there is a reason the person is selling. Just remember to have fun. HTH, Ricardo.

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Lake Perry KS
H-18
N-5.5 UNI +spin
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I have bought used boats, sight unseen, numerous times. Sometimes from the opposite side of the country. When you've found a boat of interest, ask a lot of detailed questions about the condition of the sails, rigging, rudder system, hulls and crossbeams. Through this discussion you can get a pretty clear picture of what's being offered, and the integrity of the seller. On the whole, catsailors have impressed me as honest bunch. Just be skeptical of those who don't know much about the boat. New is great if you can afford the intiial cost, and can stomach the depreciation,

Dave

Lakes can be as dangerous as the ocean, just ask the Great Lakes sailors. I'm to lazy to trailer to the G.L., & the lake off my dock is 20 miles x 16 miles...almost 300 sq miles, so that is where we stay.
http://maps.google.ca/map…resnum=2&ved=0CB4Q8gEwAQ
We occasionally cross it, or make a run to the south end & back, but mostly stay within 10 miles of the dock, utilizing the beaches & Provincial Parks around the area.
Water is 82F in the summer, it has some very good wind, & most days we are the only boats in the bay. The power boaters mostly give us room, & quickly come to offer a hand when we dump.
I have also sailed quite a bit off the West Coast, near Vancouver & gulf Islands. The water is cold, so we sailed 38' lead sleds. I have also spent quite a few days around Cuba on Cl 16's & Bytes.
I agree with RichardOben, there may be Utopian places for Cats, but few of us live there, so if you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with. Some of the most fun I ever had was learning to sail on a little 12' Byte, & crashing it a dozen times a day.
Even if your lake is small, it's better ripping end to end than sitting on shore dreaming about sailing in Florida.

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Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
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