being a self taught sailor i never really learned some of the finer points of sailing, like how to properly use the traveler... Can someone explain to me what exactly it is for, when i should use it, and how to set it? I always just leave it all the way in and it seems to sail just fine. Thanks!

Also i never really learned how to properly read the tell tails on the sails... can someone give me a quick run down on how those as well?

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70's 18' Sol Cat "Venora"
70's 18' Sol Cat "Bumblebee"
60's 14' Sailstar Tallstar sloop "Arandora"

Heber City, UT
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Sorry i just realized maybe this post should go in the "Getting Started" section instead of "Technical Help"...

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70's 18' Sol Cat "Venora"
70's 18' Sol Cat "Bumblebee"
60's 14' Sailstar Tallstar sloop "Arandora"

Heber City, UT
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It has a few functions:
To depower the boat, and to help keep the boat from healing to much.
To help with sailing direction, closer to centerline closer to the wind, further away farther down wind, jib should follow.
Remember when you travel out to depower, sheet the mainsheet back in firmly to help keep the sail flat.
I am sure others will add to this short list

Download the Hobie University

http://www.hobieclass.com…loads/hobieu/HobieU.pdf\

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Ron
Nacra F18
Reservoir Sailing Assn.
Brandon, Mississippi
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Look at this image and noticewhere the sail is... as it moves through: close-hauled, close reach, and beam reach.. the sail is still pointing at the same angle to the wind (or very close) -


For upwind:
the traveler should basically be centered when sailing upwind/close hauled (unless you wish /need to de-power. In that case, crack it off a few inches to a foot)

Falling off:
as you fall off (away from closed hauled) you want your sail to still be in the same position (relative to the wind...) so you travel out as you fall off

Downwind: travel out more and more out as you fall off ... until you are going deep downwind (close to a broad reach). at this time you should be traveled all the way out (or at least to the hiking straps)


Dead down wind:
at this angle.. the sail (and mast and all windage) is (basically) being pushed by the wind.. boat speed is at it's slowest ... travel all the way out to "catch" all the air you can. Full sails

Racers avoid dead down wind sailing (usually) because it's the slowest point of sail - you can get to the finish line faster if you jibe and zig zag your way home



Tell Tales:
your sails act like a wing and need air flow on both sides of the sail
all tell tales optimally should be streaming back, and indicate proper sheeting (both up and downwind)

The outside tell tales are slightly more important and if you can only get one tell tale to be correct (pointing aft) its the outside one to worry most about

It may be a good idea to get a book or 2 about sailing to get the real technical info, but putting it into practice is much more important to improving your sailing.. than understanding the physics of sailing



Edited by MN3 on Aug 07, 2012 - 11:12 AM.

Thanks, i understand the sail position in relation to the wind and boat direction. In the past i would always just let the main sheet out with out moving the traveler. Now it makes sense that even though the sail may be out further (like on a beam or broad reach) you still want to pull it tight as HULLFLYER suggested. I'll give it a shot next time i am out. I'll be racing in no time!

--
70's 18' Sol Cat "Venora"
70's 18' Sol Cat "Bumblebee"
60's 14' Sailstar Tallstar sloop "Arandora"

Heber City, UT
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In general, the traveller has more effect on the bottom of the sail, and the sheet has more effect on the top. Travel in/out to get lower telltales acting right and sheet in/out to trim uppers.

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Jerome Vaughan
Hobie 16
Clinton, Mississippi
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Quote

In general, the traveller has more effect on the bottom of the sail, and the sheet has more effect on the top. Travel in/out to get lower telltales acting right and sheet in/out to trim uppers

good tip, i'll keep that in mind

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70's 18' Sol Cat "Venora"
70's 18' Sol Cat "Bumblebee"
60's 14' Sailstar Tallstar sloop "Arandora"

Heber City, UT
--

I like to set my traveler and trim with the main sheet in steady predictable winds, but sailing by the traveler is good in gusty or crazy weather when you just need to dump the sail to keep from going over.

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David
Nacra 5.5SL
Nacra 5.2 (sold)
San Diego, CA
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rattlenhum

In general, the traveller has more effect on the bottom of the sail, and the sheet has more effect on the top. Travel in/out to get lower telltales acting right and sheet in/out to trim uppers.

I dont really agree with this statement.. as the main effects the entire sail...'

when steering (and holding) any direction, the traveler is not the correct way to trim your sail.. the main is. If you are sailing at 10knots, and travel out to adjust a tel-tale (or for any other reason).. you will change your angle of attack (angle your sail is "attacking" the wind), and you will depower, slowdown, and all your tel-tales will be effected

also sheet hard and you tighten the leach of the entire sail. this changes everything from draft to twist

I use the traveler for 2 reasons, in strong winds i move it to leeward side of the boat to allow me to keeP the main tight but also spill air out the top of the sail. The other reaon is is in light winds. I move the traveller to the windward side. This allows me keep the sail trimmed in but without cranking down on the mainsheet. The sail keeps a nice pocket to catch that little bit of wind.

This is all on a close haul

Quote

I move the traveller to the windward side.

How far to windward and what do you sail?

I have tried this with marginal results on my boat.

MN3

when steering (and holding) any direction, the traveler is not the correct way to trim your sail.. the main is. If you are sailing at 10knots, and travel out to adjust a tel-tale (or for any other reason).. you will change your angle of attack (angle your sail is "attacking" the wind), and you will depower, slowdown, and all your tel-tales will be effected

also sheet hard and you tighten the leach of the entire sail. this changes everything from draft to twist

I agree with you on all but one point of sail- the beam reach. When racing on a beam reach in strong and puffy conditions, when a puff hits I move out the traveler as I head downwind a bit to take advantage of the added pressure. I am not trying to spill wind, I am trying to use it.

In heavy air, if it's not in my hand, the main traveler line is either in my lap or over my foot if I am on trap because it is the fastest way to spill lots wind if I need to. Letting the sheet out on a 7 or 8:1 mainsheet is slooow compared to the instantaneous release when moving the traveler a single foot.

In reading about the new Formula cats (F18, etc.), the skipper usually has the crew sheet the main, while the skipper tends the tiller and the main traveler. I am hoping to see this in action next weekend and gain a better understanding of it.

--
Sheet In!
Bob
_/)_____/)_/)____/)____/)_____/)/)__________/)__
Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
AZ Multihull Fleet 42 member
(Way) Past Commodore of Prindle Fleet 14
Arizona, USA
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MN3

Quote

I move the traveller to the windward side.

How far to windward and what do you sail?

I have tried this with marginal results on my boat.

MN3

Quote

I move the traveller to the windward side.

How far to windward and what do you sail?

I have tried this with marginal results on my boat.

Currently a H18. But i've sailed C320's, 420's, daysailors, j24's even spent some time aboard the Shamrock an early Americas cup contender.

It depends on the boat as to how far I move it.. the whole idea is to set it so you can keep your full and not flat on a light breezy day.

If your racing marginal results are good compared to nothing...

The truth of the matter is i rarely adjust the traveler unless i am trying to edge out someone. most of the time I am just relaxing and making minimal adjustments.. But growing up this is how using the traveller was taught to me...

MN3

rattlenhum

In general, the traveller has more effect on the bottom of the sail, and the sheet has more effect on the top. Travel in/out to get lower telltales acting right and sheet in/out to trim uppers.

I dont really agree with this statement.. as the main effects the entire sail...'

You may not agree, but Rick White does, and that's good enough for me!!!

Notice I said IN GENERAL.....everything depends on waves, crew weight, windspeed, sail condition, etc. And I didn't state that neither the sheet or traveller affect the entire sail, but rather the traveller affects the lower part MORE and the sheet affects the upper part MORE. For clarity, I will elaborate....

If your traveller is set too far out, you can sheet in all you want and maybe get the top of the sail to act right, but the lower part of the sail will be luffed (lower windward tell-tale flies up). Travel too far in, and the bottom is stalled (although you may be able to ease sheet enough to get the upper tell-tales flowing properly). The converse is GENERALLY true as well. And I'm sure that this GENERALLY varies from boat to boat, depending on sail cut, downhaul capability, boom(less), etc.



Edited by rattlenhum on Aug 09, 2012 - 12:12 PM.

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Jerome Vaughan
Hobie 16
Clinton, Mississippi
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It's been in the mid-90s (F) here, with heat indicies at 105 plus. There's been no wind, except for the 30 second long, 40 mph downdraft from the occasional thunderstorm. From Memorial Day to Labor Day our local reservoir is covered up with powerboats, PWCs, and their relentless waves bouncing back and forth and multiplying on the rock/seawall shores. So apologies in advance for my irritation, but....

passingwind

I move the traveller to the windward side.

Monohull Blasphemy!!!!!

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Jerome Vaughan
Hobie 16
Clinton, Mississippi
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Quote

agree with you on all but one point of sail- the beam reach. When racing on a beam reach in strong and puffy conditions, when a puff hits I move out the traveler as I head downwind a bit to take advantage of the added pressure. I am not trying to spill wind, I am trying to use it.

I agree 100% - i take advantage of pressure anywhere where i can

every change in heading = different optimal settings.
we haven't even mentioned, inhaul, downhaul, jib lead, spreader rake, pre-bend
there must be a million variables



Edited by MN3 on Aug 09, 2012 - 03:12 PM.

rattlenhum

MN3

rattlenhum

In general, the traveller has more effect on the bottom of the sail, and the sheet has more effect on the top. Travel in/out to get lower telltales acting right and sheet in/out to trim uppers.

I dont really agree with this statement.. as the main effects the entire sail...'

You may not agree, but Rick White does, and that's good enough for me!!!

Notice I said IN GENERAL.....everything depends on waves, crew weight, windspeed, sail condition, etc. And I didn't state that neither the sheet or traveller affect the entire sail, but rather the traveller affects the lower part MORE and the sheet affects the upper part MORE. For clarity, I will elaborate....

If your traveller is set too far out, you can sheet in all you want and maybe get the top of the sail to act right, but the lower part of the sail will be luffed (lower windward tell-tale flies up). Travel too far in, and the bottom is stalled (although you may be able to ease sheet enough to get the upper tell-tales flowing properly). The converse is GENERALLY true as well. And I'm sure that this GENERALLY varies from boat to boat, depending on sail cut, downhaul capability, boom(less), etc.Edited by rattlenhum on Aug 09, 2012 - 12:12 PM.

I will agree you CAN adjust your main tell tales with your traveler...

But I cant understand any reason TO adjust my main tale-tells with my traveler

Why would you want to / need to do this?


upwind - for maximum speed on my boat - I set my jib (all 6 of my tell-tales happy), center my travler and sheet the main.

Close hauled, the only reason i travel out is to or reduce healing and prevent a capsize in heavy air.

rattlenhum

MN3

rattlenhum

In general, the traveller has more effect on the bottom of the sail, and the sheet has more effect on the top. Travel in/out to get lower telltales acting right and sheet in/out to trim uppers.

I dont really agree with this statement.. as the main effects the entire sail...'

You may not agree, but Rick White does, and that's good enough for me!!!

Notice I said IN GENERAL.....

The converse is GENERALLY true as well. And I'm sure that this GENERALLY varies from boat to boat, depending on sail cut, downhaul capability, boom(less), etc.Edited by rattlenhum on Aug 09, 2012 - 12:12 PM.

I am not trying to argue or to win a point, only disseminate the right info (your "generality" noted)


sheeting the main:
tighten the leach -entire sail
moves the draft - more so in the mid of sail
pulls the top of the mast down creating a flatter sail - mid and upper sail

Travel out / sheet:
changes angle of attack on the bottom and middle of sail
creates twist at the top of sail spilling of air



Edited by MN3 on Aug 09, 2012 - 03:25 PM.

MN3

upwind - for maximum speed on my boat - I set my jib (all 6 of my tell-tales happy), center my travler and sheet the main.

Close hauled, the only reason i travel out is to or reduce healing and prevent a capsize in heavy air.

I don't think anyone is arguing that you would play the main traveler if your goal is to sail as high as the wind will allow, regardless of destination. But that's generally recreational sailing, in a race you have a goal (mark or tacking point) that you are aiming at and so you might adjust a traveler to keep the sail in trim while keeping the boat pointed toward your goal.

Also an issue with playing the traveler on "traditional" beachcats is that they just aren't setup for quick adjustments to the traveler.

The discussion about where to set the traveler should be focused on off-the-wind headings. My observation is that most folks let off way too much traveler when heading "downwind", and by downwind I mean 90 degrees to apparent wind, which is the deepest most non-spin beachcats should be sailing anyway.

If we are talking the new model high-tech beachcats, like the F18's with there infinitely tunable bendy masts, those cats actually play the downhaul to power and depower the main rather than mainsheet or traveler.

--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

How To Create Your Signature

How To Create Your Own Cool Avatar

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Been sailing an F18 off and on this summer.

Downwind, we keep the traveler centered downwind with some decent mainsheet pressure. Reason is twofold:
1) We use the sail as the backstay to prevent folding the mast from the strain of the spinnaker.
2) When you're in the groove, the apparent wind shifts so far forward that the main thinks its going up wind (ie telltales are flowing properly).

Upwind, as Damon said, we downhaul for general conditions to flatten-out and depower the sail. Some might adjust in real-time, but generally we have the crew with the main-sheet easing a few inches on the puffs.

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Jeff R
'88 H18 "Jolly Mon"
'10 C2 USA1193
NE IN / SE MI
cramsailing.com
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To the original subject on an H18:

When heading to the windward mark, the traveler is centered and am sheeting for sail and boat trim.

Off the wind, I'm trimming via the Rick White method. Traveler to keep the bottom telltales flowing, mainsheet to keep the top telltales flowing and manage boat trim. Adjustments have to be made according to waves and apparent wind shifts

Heading "downwind", I've been parking the traveler about 6" in from the lee hull and steering for proper flow and ~90deg apparent wind.

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Jeff R
'88 H18 "Jolly Mon"
'10 C2 USA1193
NE IN / SE MI
cramsailing.com
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I'm certainly no racer but going upwind from a beam reach to close hauled I always keep my traveller close to centered unless I'm way overpowered and need to dump some air to keep from flipping. Downwind I let the traveller out progressively to the hiking straps until I get to a broad reach. And further downwind and I let the traveller out progressively until a few inches from the hulls. Note that I don't have a spin and am normally single handing, or single handing with passengers (i.e. sight seeing friends who sit on my sheets) so I try to keep my work load down as much as possible.

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Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Quote

If we are talking the new model high-tech beachcats, like the F18's with there infinitely tunable bendy masts, those cats actually play the downhaul to power and depower the main rather than mainsheet or traveler.

Good points Damon,
I was thinking more modern boat / sails
(and mostly upwind in this discussion unless otherwise noted)

Holy Cow! My first post was directed toward the OP who keeps his traveller centered on all points of sail and, according to his sig, is on a 70's Solcat. It was meant as a general observation to compliment, not contradict, the other helpful information offerred here.

Venora: I highly recommend Rick White's "Catamaran Racing for the 90s." Don't worry about the title, the first several chapters include an abundance of boathandling information. It'll cost you a few bucks, but you know you get what you pay for, so it'll be a better value than the free advice here (especially mine apparently)!!!!!!

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Jerome Vaughan
Hobie 16
Clinton, Mississippi
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