After being out of the water for almost six months, we finally took our boat out yesterday. I'll tell it as a story, but there are some questions in here as well:

Last week I fixed the main halyard on my Pacific Catamaran. There was no wind Saturday, so we went out Sunday. I checked for weather advisories, but there weren't any. The local sailplane club runs some excellent wind models for our area, so I checked those, too. Nothing scary there, either. Still, as we drove down to the ocean I couldn't help thinking the weather looked... weird.

We took a while to rig because I'd removed the mast from the boat for the halyard work, and hadn't sorted the rigging out yet. By the time we were ready to go there was almost no wind. Maybe three or four knots at most, coming out of the south (a weird direction for this harbor.) It meant we had to swim the boat out because there was no room to tack, but we finally made it out. I won't go into the nitty gritty details of the sail, except to point out the three big things that went wrong.

First: I'm still teaching my family to sail. So on the one and only jibe we did, my son didn't get his head down when I said, "jibing!" So like a dork I reached over, grabbed his shoulder, and pushed him down. Anyone want to guess what happened while my head was up like that? You bet. I got boomed and thrown overboard. The boat completed the jibe and took off without me. We've run MOB drills, but up to this point no one other than me had been on helm during the drills. So no one knew how to come back and get me. I talked them through putting the boat into irons, and swam over. Lesson learned.

Second: We took some time setting things to rights before starting again. By the time we finished and got ready to go, a squall had rolled in. (Remember how I checked the weather? Remember how there were no red flags but things looked "weird"? Now I know what "weird" means: unpredictable.) The rain wasn't bad, but the wind was higher than we were ready for. I doubt it ever got over 15 knots, so it's not like we were in mortal danger or anything. But I had an inexperienced crew, and knew if I went over again there were no guarantees. We decided to turn tail and run. Unfortunately the harbor was directly downwind. I'd never put this boat on a powered-up downhill run. It took a while to hit our stride, but eventually I got the boat surfing and could keep the bows out of the water. We made it back fine. Lesson learned.

Finally: Once the boat was out of the water we pulled it to the parking area and started tearing down. Everyone was fine, we weren't in a rush, so we took our time. Once everything was stripped off the boat, it was time for the mast to come down. My wife hooked the forestay up to the winch, pulled the pin, and... some dude rolls up in a truck asking questions about our boat. He's rattling on about how he's sailed for years, yadda yadda yadda, and I'm thinking, "We're trying to take a mast down! Can you please be quiet?!" My wife and I can't communicate at all. Right before I'm about to catch the mast, the winch gets away from her and whacks her hands. Then the guy proceeds to tell her how she's doing it all wrong! CRIPES! He finally caught the hint and moved on. But I really wished I'd told him to shut his howling meathole while we were coordinating the damn mast! My wife's hand would've thanked me. The mast escaped unscathed. Lesson learned.

Anyway, we made it out in one piece. Now for the questions:

I'm tempted to drydock our boat on its trailer until everyone has had sailing lessons with the local club. I'd like everyone to have capsized and righted a smaller boat more than once before we go out again. Anything else I should insist on with my crew? I'd like to get some more experience under their belts.

What rules of thumb do you guys use on weather? Unfortunately there's not a big contingent of sailors here, so I can't just watch the beach to see who puts in and who sits it out. Also, the wind we were out in wasn't bad. Shoot, on my P-16 that would've been FUN! But I'm not used to the boat, I had an inexperienced crew, and this was open ocean. I know if I never go out in conditions I'm not familiar with, I can't grow as a sailor. But when is enough enough? And how do you tell before conditions change to something you're not ready for?

Finally, would you guys have any problem telling a bystander to zip it while you're stepping your mast? I honestly didn't know what to do. But it's pretty obvious I did the wrong thing by being silent.

For what it's worth we're still sailing out of the rocky harbor with the boat ramp. No beach to speak of. But after this our next port of call may be the beach in Hilo. It's an hour and a half away, which is a pain. But the conditions are a lot more predictable.

Tom

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Tom Benedict
Island of Hawaii
P-Cat 18 / Sail# 361 / HA 7633 H / "Smilodon"
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2 words A MOTOR

Been thinking about that, too. What size would you use for a 19' cat?

Tom

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Tom Benedict
Island of Hawaii
P-Cat 18 / Sail# 361 / HA 7633 H / "Smilodon"
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"sorry mate, we're at a bit of a delicate stage here, mind if we keep or eyes on the job"

then if he keeps prattling on, just go uhuh, uhuh every few seconds

what i generally don't want is people trying to "help" at this stage

so if they offer it's

"thanks for the offer mate, but i've got a system that works fine with just me, i've just got to concentrate on it...."

Thanks, erice. That gets the point across in a firm but gentle way. Perfect. I'm remembering that.

Tom

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Tom Benedict
Island of Hawaii
P-Cat 18 / Sail# 361 / HA 7633 H / "Smilodon"
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erice nailed it.
I am less patient with people when it is a safety issue.
I'll explain once and then I start barking.
23 years in EMS has given me plenty of reasons to be respectful of safety concerns, and polite takes a back seat to that respect after an initial warning. You could have lost control of the mast and killed the jerk, so you are actually teaching him respect and minimizing the danger to him by encouraging him to stand down.

benedict, you might think about getting a wind meter and take measurements each time you hit the beach. This will give you real data (not weather reports), and over time a better feel for what you can handle. While you test the wind, look around at flags, trees and other sailors to better compare what it looks like on shore to how if feels on the water once you get out there.

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Sheet In!
Bob
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Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
AZ Multihull Fleet 42 member
(Way) Past Commodore of Prindle Fleet 14
Arizona, USA
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^
crossed a frozen alpine pass on a big bike

dropped it on the ice

a nice woman stopped to help me get it back up

and ripped the rear indicator right off....



Edited by erice on Dec 03, 2012 - 05:26 PM.

I've got an anemometer, but no I didn't bring it that day. When I got home I took it out of my kite bag and vowed to remember it the next time I went sailing.

Weird thing is conditions were dead calm the whole time we were rigging. I was actually thankful when I got down there to see little to no wind, because I hadn't rigged in a while and I wanted a nice slow day to play with. It didn't start picking up until an hour after we got out on the water.

Which makes me thankful this anemometer is waterproof. I want it out on the boat with me so if conditions do change, I can find out what it's actually doing. Like you said, eventually I'll have a better feel for what I can handle and what I can't. It'd be nice to be able to take a reading and either be able to say, "still safe with good margin" or "nope, time to turn tail and run."

Thanks to both of you for the input. Exactly what I was looking for.

Tom

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Tom Benedict
Island of Hawaii
P-Cat 18 / Sail# 361 / HA 7633 H / "Smilodon"
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Tom, in some of your posts, I remember you talking about a roller furling jib, do you have a furling jib on the P-Cat and do you have the ability to reef your main? On my old H16, the wire halyard had 2 nicopress slugs, the 1st was for securing the main fully raised, the 2nd was for reefing the main. With reefing points which were grommets with line along a horizontal axis on the main, the sailor was able to drop mainsail to 2nd slug, and secure excess sail to the boom using the reefing lines, in effect, reducing the size of the sail. Maybe something to look into?

I can furl the jib on the water, and should be able to reef the main. I need to take another look at the sail to see if there are reef points. Nothing like the nicopress slugs on the H16, but at the very least I can winch down some part of the sail and keep going. I'll definitely keep that in mind for next time. Thanks.

Tom

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Tom Benedict
Island of Hawaii
P-Cat 18 / Sail# 361 / HA 7633 H / "Smilodon"
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Quote

Which makes me thankful this anemometer is waterproof. I want it out on the boat with me so if conditions do change, I can find out what it's actually doing. Like you said, eventually I'll have a better feel for what I can handle and what I can't. It'd be nice to be able to take a reading and either be able to say, "still safe with good margin" or "nope, time to turn tail and run."

Tom, I personally wouldn't get to hung up on reading an instrument. Much like a depth finder, they tell you what just happened, not what is coming. Wind speed is only a number, you don't really need to know that number.
I would concentrate more on "what it looks like, & how does it feel". Observation will soon give you the skills to equate sea conditions with how much fun,(or lack of) the sail will be.
Closely observe the water surface,even when not sailing. You will soon be able to differentiate increasing wind speeds, based on when waves first begin to break, foam streaks appear, etc.
You quickly develop a feel for what is in your comfort zone, & when rounding a point or headland will be able to look at the water ahead, & decide to turn back, furl the jib, or drive on.
When conditions change, such as a gust front or squall occur, the water surface is quite quick to react. When flying float planes we used to call gusts "cats paws", they are very visible, even when superimposed on a wave pattern. You will see them in time to head up & pinch if need be. I feel that is better than pulling out an instrument & taking a reading, the time could be better spent furling the jib.
It is easy to be data rich, & information poor with all the gizmos we have today. GPS comes to mind, easy to get fixated heads down,looking at a screen, & fail to notice the slight breaking of the waves indicating the approaching reef.



Edited by Edchris177 on Dec 04, 2012 - 05:59 AM.

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Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
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Nacra 5.0
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benedict

I'd like everyone to have capsized and righted a smaller boat more than once before we go out again. Anything else I should insist on with my crew? I'd like to get some more experience under their belts.

how to steer the boat back to the skipper if he falls off (what if you were knocked out?)

benedict

Finally, would you guys have any problem telling a bystander to zip it while you're stepping your mast? I honestly

i look forward to it ... :), just kidding, but i have told many (sailors and non to please wait till i am done with the mast)i, you have to have total control & attention when dropping 28' of mast.. the thing could kill someone

benedict

But when is enough enough? And how do you tell before conditions change to something you're not ready for?

it's an acquired skill (you just had a lesson). you have to know the weather predictions, watch the trees/flags, water (white caps start around 14mph), assess your risk threshold (kids on board make it very low), etc

benedict

What size would you use for a 19' cat?

i have a 3.5 hp Tohotsu motor (for my jon boat) that was purchased for a g-cat 5.7 (19'). The person i purchased it from ran into a storm with his 8 year old on board and the x-wife made him get the motor if he was ever to take the kid out again. After a few years of experience ... he ditched the motor

2 to 3.5 hp motor, the lighter the better, therefore probably a two stroke. 2 hp would be plenty of power, but 3s and 3.5s are much more common. Fabricate a motor mount that has a pivoting arm, as opposed to a fixed one, so the motor can be pulled up to a nearly horizontal position. You don't want it dragging in the water, particularly when it gets choppy. I tilt the motor on it's mount, then lift the whole assembly and slide a wedge(with a retainer line so I don't lose it) under the pivoting arm to secure the motor well above the water.

Developing a reliable reefing system for the mainsail should be a high priority for ocean sailing. And practice with crew so they can do it without you. Actually make them do it at your direction, as opposed to justwatching you. It's far more likely to stick if they've gone thru the motions. And reef BEFORE you get hit, it's a tough job in moderate conditions, it can be close to impossible if it's blowing hard.

I toss a pfd overboard often to practice man overboard drills. And I immediately had the tiller over to crew to give them the experience of how to stop the boat, and turn it around, all while keeping an eye on the MOB. It take a fair bit of practice to be able to quickly get the boat back to the "person", and stop it. Also practice actually getting someone back on board, it's not that easy. My favored spot is between the hulls, just forward of the main beam. You can pull yourself out of the water a bit by hanging on the beam, and thow a leg up over the hull.

Practice righting REGULARLY, with all crew. It's actually fun in nice weather, but you need to do it in some breeze as well, because keeping the boat correctly oriented to the wind is an important task to master. I have a righting pole on the F16 that allows me to right it solo, and a SoloRight for the F18. Water bags work well if you know how to use them. A quickly deployed righting line is essential. I like the Hawiian set up, but that just my preference. You need something in place though, no time to look for something. Practice til you have developed a system that works consistently and quickly. Fatigue is your enemy, self reliance could save lives.

Consider building a gin pole for mast raising/lowering. It's safer, and less stressful. Masts are expensive, and deadly, for people and nearby stuff.

Experience will improve your skill at assessing weather, but the unexpected will always show eventually. Keeping your equipment in good order, and your safety skills honed are your best defence.

Dave

Sounds like you just need a motor to navigate the marina. I'd look at a small electric troller. Also how many people did you have. Sounds like the whole family. Get some collapsable paddles and throw a kid on each bow to paddle while you steer it out of the marina. shouldn't have to swim it out.

I braved the 90 degree rocky entrance to the Great Salt Lake marina this year on my P18. I had more trouble in the Marina than making it in and out. Made the entrance fine both ways under sail but had a little trouble first getting off the ramp. Not enough room or momentum to turn the boat down the waterway. I kept want to head into the rocks just past the docks. Finally got a god push off the rock at eh bow with end of the paddle and were ok after that. Then after we got back in my son was dinking around and promptly fell in off in the marina. It was pretty funny.

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Dustin Finlinson • Magna, UT
Member: Utah Sailing Association
1982 Prindle 18
1986 Hobie 17
1982 Prindle 16
1980 Prindle 16(mostly)
1976 Prindle 16(mostly)
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