Sailed the inter-18 for the second time this afternoon and we end-up with the same problem as last monday.

After the ride I tried to un-hook the main sail to lower it without succes. I pulled on the halyard but the sail didn't slide up to get free from the hook. I pulled, turn the mast but the ring was still on the hook.

Any suggestions?

Both time we lowered the mast with the sail on. Not a big deal but far from ideal.

Next time if we have more time we will laid the boat on the side and try to figure what's going on.

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AB
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Could be several different things going on here. What style is your ring at the top? Where is it tied on that ring and is the knot forward or back? Mine has the Aussie ring tied in the center, The knot has to be facing aft or that sail is never coming down. Sounds like yours might be tied to the top of the ring and doesn't have enough room to slide up.

Cleaning up the mast track, lubing the bolt rope and replacing the sheeves top and bottom can make a huge difference as well in how easy it is to work the sail.

I would highly discourage lowering the mast with the sail up. That has the potential to go really bad, flipping the boat on its side is the safer solution IMO. Some large foam pads are nice to have around if your doing this in the parking lot.

Get the Aussie ring ($25), keep knot aft & lubricate bolt rope on sail. Carolina is correct. Pete

Here's the setup of the actual ring.



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AB
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Is this the aussie ring you're talking about?

http://www.murrays.com/07-3064.html

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AB
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I prefer the Murrays ring with offset tit-off for $26.50 (paid $25 last time). Guess we call them all the "Aussie" ring. Pete

Andre, that is the exact ring I use on the 6XL.
When I dry rigged the boat in the yard a couple times before bringing it to the lake, I could not get the sail off the hook either.
Two things,
1) Rather than tie the ring, as in your photo, dead end it onto the ring with a monkey fist or figure 8 stopper knot. As Pete said, keep the knot aft
2) The shackle that goes onto the ring,(to attach the sail) is critical. My boat came with a heavy bow shackle on the ring, it proved impossible to work.
I dropped the mast,(with sail on) leaving it attached at the base, & letting the top end sit on a tripod. I could then stand at the "top" & pull the halyard & see exactly what the problem was. As soon as I switched to a regular "U" shackle vs the heavy "bow", it unhooked everytime. I noticed the hook was bent slightly off center. Not sure if this is factory or a prang, but it means I must rotate the mast counterclockwise, then yank the halyard. Keep the mast rotated while the sail comes down the first few inches, then you can let it return to neutral. It works everytime, but the stopper knot orientation & shackle type were key.

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

Ed,


As for the shackle, it was a twisted shackle. We lost it yesterday on the road.

I will try with the knots you suggest and a new shackle.

Thank you



Edited by coolhead on Jun 30, 2014 - 05:46 AM.

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AB
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Gentlemen,

When you say having the knot aft do you mean between the mast and the ring or on the other side of the ring?

Thank you so far.

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AB
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Here is a comprehensive coverage of the topic:
http://www.hobiecat.com/a…ng-and-halyard-locks,89/


Knot should to face the mast, which is a bit counter intuitive


The key is to point bows into the wind, even in light air. Another trick is to mark position of the main sail when hoisted all the way up. This way you know the main is pulled up sufficiently to unhook.

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Jack B
Hobie 17
BC, Canada
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It depends heavily on his ring system. The graphic shown by Jack is a relatively forgiving system that can work in either direction in a pinch. I use an Aussie ring like the ones linked above, however the halyard is tied around the weld between the ring and the shackle. It works great and allows a little extra lift to get the ring above the hook. With that system though the rope must be between the mast and the top of the ring, which leaves the knot facing away from the mast which is the opposite of what is in the image above.

--
Greenville SC

Offering sails and other go fast parts for A-class catamarans
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Had the same problem as you with my Mystere, the aussie ring helped a lot. Still have a hard time occasionally though if wind is from the side (i rig on a boatlift), or if on the water when tied to my mooring bouy.

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Jason Kasper
2000 Mystère 5.0XL
Lake St Francis (St Lawrence River)
Lancaster, Ontario, Canada
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Check this thread, there is an informative set of pics on page 2.

http://owners.aquarius-sail.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=170&p=986&hilit=aussie+ring#p986

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'82 Super Cat 15
Hull #315
Virginia
Previously owned: '70 H14, '79 H16, '68 Sailmaster 26, '85 H14T
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I found that if I put the knot facing the mast it can be difficult to hook. Facing or not facing depends on the position of the hook relative to the pivot point of the halyard at the top of the mast. For me the trick was to get rid of the twist shackle and go with a wide U shackle.

i rig my main with a figure 8 stopper knot that faces aft

I use this ring



my sail is fussy and can take up to 4 or 5 tries to lock up or come off the hook


ps i have to be dead center- head to wind to get my sail to lock up or come down...



Edited by MN3 on Jun 30, 2014 - 02:14 PM.

coolhead

Sailed the inter-18 for the second time this afternoon and we end-up with the same problem as last monday.

After the ride I tried to un-hook the main sail to lower it without succes. I pulled on the halyard but the sail didn't slide up to get free from the hook. I pulled, turn the mast but the ring was still on the hook.

Any suggestions?

Both time we lowered the mast with the sail on. Not a big deal but far from ideal.

Next time if we have more time we will laid the boat on the side and try to figure what's going on.

Try this as this is what worked for my Inter 20 (same mast head set up as your Inter 18, and with my NACRA F-18)

MAKE SURE YOUR DOWN HAUL HAS BEEN DISCONNECTED, and your MAST ROTATION LINES ARE FREE. Sorry, for the caps, but you would be surprised...

1.) Pull the halyard until it does not go any further... Don't honk on it...

2. Rotate the mast rotator wishbone to the left and take it beyond the main beam.... The main beam would be about 90 degrees rotation, you're gonna want to get at least 110 degrees or more rotation... If you can't do this your shrouds are too tight...

3.) While still over rotated, release the halyard and pull on the foot of the sail.... it should come down...

4.) If it does not come down, try again but this time turn - push the wishbone to the right and again keep it over-rotated and pull on the foot of the sail...

The trick is in the over-rotation and getting the mast hook out of the way...

Give it a run, and let us know if this works... You really don't need to over engineer or think this...



Edited by JohnES on Jun 30, 2014 - 05:24 PM.

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John Schwartz
Ventura, CA
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JohnEs,

Thanks for the tip. I will try it tomorrow since we are going to sail.

About the CAPS, no need to be sorry. I am not surprised and I am sure you can guess why.

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AB
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Here's a homemade solution to the knot situation. By putting the knot to the side you eliminate the problem altogether. The ring slides up and over the mast hook and when it's time to let the sail down just pull on the main halyard.....turn the mast clockwise and down she comes. One caveat is the halyard must be to the right of the mast hook while raising.

nacraman57

One caveat is the halyard must be to the right of the mast hook while raising.

I have been having problems with that the last few times that I have sailed.

While raising the sail, the halyard looped over the hook to the left and bound up. I brought the sail down and cleared it, and re raised it, but the halyard kept fouling the hook. I have given up the last 2 times and laid the boat down on the beach to solve the issue.

Any ideas?

I have thought of buying 50-60 feet of cheap line from walmart and looping it around the knot (holding both ends on the ground) so I can pull the halyard to the right side to clear the hook. Once the sail is up, I would let go of one end and pull it down.

One other thought is the method shown on the Aquarius link above.

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Jeff
Houston TX
1986 Hobie 18 Sail# 13031
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Been sucessful today. Bought the aussie ring and attached it the way shown in gahamby link (aquarius sail).

Had some problem the first time. I think I pulled too hard on the halyard and hook the shackle instead of the ring. Once unhooked, I hooked it back carefully and 3 times in a row it unhooked without problem. Turn the mast 110 degree as per Johnes advice.

Thank you all for your assistance.



Edited by coolhead on Jul 11, 2014 - 08:23 PM.

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AB
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One of the most critical factors when using the hook & ring systems is that the boat must be pointed DIRECTLY into the wind when hooking or un-hooking the halyard. If the boat is not into the wind, then the sail can be blown off to one side or the other forcing the ring onto or away from the hook and no matter how much you rotate the mast, the ring will not do what you want it to do.

sm

Dogboy

One of the most critical factors when using the hook & ring systems is that the boat must be pointed DIRECTLY into the wind when hooking or un-hooking the halyard.

Agree, that is the biggest mistake I see people make when they are having trouble hooking or unhooking.

I use the offset "aussie" ring like
http://www.murrays.com/01-4216.html

The key on that ring is to make sure the big part of the circle is on the hook side of the mast. Also knot on the mast side if you use a stopper knot through the hole. I just tie to the small hole with a bowline.

Another tip on that style ring, just before you connect it to the main:

Let the ring and halyard hang freely so zero twist in halyard.

Hold the ring with the fat side on the hook side of mast.

Now rotate the ring and halyard 5 or 6 times AWAY from the hook side. This is done so the natural tendency of the ring as it is raised up the mast is to untwist/rotate towards the hook and mast.

Unhooking is just a matter of getting the main dead into the wind, raising the ring above the hook, rotate the mast 90 degrees towards the hook side, and releasing the halyard.

--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

How To Create Your Signature

How To Create Your Own Cool Avatar

How To Display Pictures In The Forums.
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Quote

One of the most critical factors when using the hook & ring systems is that the boat must be pointed DIRECTLY into the wind when hooking or un-hooking the halyard. If the boat is not into the wind, then the sail can be blown off to one side or the other forcing the ring onto or away from the hook and no matter how much you rotate the mast, the ring will not do what you want it to do

I have to respectfully disagree with this.
My prevailing wind is almost always close to 40* off the orientation of the dock/seadoo lift. Unless I place an anchor & hang the boat, I almost never have the wind directly on the nose.
Yesterday I had to raise the sail in 15 mph with it hanging against the port shroud,(I'm still wearing a cast, but screw it, I'm not wasting 1/2 the summer because of a damned ankle).
Once the sail portion on the tramp hung up on the tiller tie bar, & once in the main sheet, but after freeing those, it went up & hooked on the second try.
This was on a 20x10' Mystere, using the stock sail. It also took two pulls,(1 with mast right, the 2nd left) to unhook it.
I'm using the same ring that Andre posted at the beginning of the thread, with a straight shackle on the ring to attach the sail. I'm going to experiment & see if a twist shackle is better.
I'm not sure if the hook is stock, or if the PO had problems & modified it, but the hook is NOT perpendicular to the mast. It is "bent" to one side, appx 10*-15*. I'll take photo in the fall when the mast comes down.
I make sure the halyard is on the outside of the "bend" when I raise the sail, & I have the stopper knot facing the mast. The Mystere manual says to raise til "you hear a click", I haul til it's fully up, then give it a good yank, I can hear the ring hit the stop. Then I rotate the mast slightly in the direction of the hooks bend, until it lines up with wherever the wind has the sail, then release the halyard. It usually hooks on the 2nd or 3rd try.
Dumping the sail means pulling the rotator to line up the mast with the sail, hauling up hard, then rotating the mast the other way, usually takes two tries.
Initially I had trouble even raising the sail. The Mystere manual says to have the sail to starboard of the boom, while you stand on port side. I thought it shouldn't matter, but closer inspection showed the sail feed cutout in the mast is not centered. They only cut away from one side (right), so their method works best. In a stiff wind I have to tie the rotator to line the mast into the wind, & live with the sail against the shroud.

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

if your not directly into the wind, you are adding a lot of friction to your system. even if it hooks on the first try, and doesn't feel "all that tough"


it is more than likely wearing out your boltrope much faster than if you could be nose to wind

Quote

it is more than likely wearing out your boltrope much faster than if you could be nose to wind

That may well be true, I will experiment with this idea, by placing an anchor that I could walk the boat to, then hoist sail.
My dock is 73' to accommodate all the water crap, makes for a confined entrance, with not much room for the boat to swing at anchor. The boat would have to stay in a pretty small radius
I forget how you anchored, do you need a "Y", with each arm attached to a bridal
& the foot of the "Y" on the anchor rode?

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

Quote

I forget how you anchored, do you need a "Y", with each arm attached to a bridal & the foot of the "Y" on the anchor rode

Oui

Andre, & Jason...did you totally solve your problem?
I am using the same ring Andre posted in his photo. It worked pretty well, until a couple of weeks ago.
My main halyard was getting a couple of fray points, so I swapped it. (the easy way is to cut the ends square, melt them a bit, then stitch them together with a butt join, not an overlap...then just pull the old halyard out, the new one will run up the mast & through any block).
Instantly I had problems, had to tip the boat 3 days in a row to get the sail down. didn't matter which way the knot faced. With boat on its side I could wade out & have my buddy work the halyard. There was no obvious reason for it NOT to work, at least with the sail floating.
I changed the knot configuration & halyard again, this time to 3/16" slippery line.
Presto, not only does the sail raise much easier, it will slide back down on its own, this should mean less wear on the bolt rope. I tried it 4 times at the dock, then 3 days sailing, & it went up & down on the first or second try every time.
I changed the knot from a pure stopper to tying it on the ring just below the small loop, this may have been what Bacho referred to above. This way gives about 1/4" more heist before the ring hits the block at mast top, & that, coupled with thinner line seems to have cured the problem with the old style ring. I am just using a regular stamped shackle.


--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

Andre, & Jason...did you totally solve your problem?
I am using the same ring Andre posted in his photo. It worked pretty well, until a couple of weeks ago.
My main halyard was getting a couple of fray points, so I replaced it, using 1/4" line. (the easy way is to cut the ends square, melt them a bit, then stitch them together with a butt join, not an overlap...then just pull the old halyard out, the new one will run up the mast & through any block).
Instantly I had problems, had to tip the boat 3 days in a row to get the sail down. didn't matter which way the knot faced. With boat on its side I could wade out & have my buddy work the halyard. There was no obvious reason for it NOT to work, at least with the sail floating.
I changed the knot configuration & halyard again, this time to 3/16" slippery line.
Presto, not only does the sail raise much easier, it will slide back down on its own, this should mean less wear on the bolt rope. I tried it 4 times at the dock, then 3 days sailing, & it went up & down on the first or second try every time.
I changed the knot from a pure stopper to tying it on the ring just below the small loop, this may have been what Bacho referred to above. This way gives about 1/4" more heist before the ring hits the block at mast top, & that, coupled with thinner line seems to have cured the problem with the old style ring. I am just using a regular stamped shackle.




Edited by Edchris177 on Aug 20, 2014 - 11:13 AM.

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Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

Edchris,

Yes, my problem is 100% resolved. Since I bought the aussie ring and attached it the way Aquarius Sail showed in the link provided by Gahamby, my success rate is 100%. Never missed.

Also, I turn the mast 110 degree as per Johnes advice.

Thanks all for your help.



Edited by coolhead on Aug 20, 2014 - 01:44 PM.

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AB
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