I have an opportunity to pick up an H20 for a great price and would like input regarding learning on this cat. I would prefer to get a cat to keep rather than try to trade up since selling a boat can be tricky. My thinking is as follows:
- Start out using just the main and get comfortable with it solo.
- Bring my wife out in very light wind and start to use the jib
- No flying hulls for now
- After about a dozen practice sessions start to test the boat and us.
What does this group think about this strategy? Any suggetions either way would be welcome?

Quote

selling a boat can be tricky

depending on where you live i guess it could be tricky but hobie 16's are all over the world and easy as pie to buy and sell (as long as you live near water) - prindle 16's are not as common but there are 1000's of them all around too.


2 train of thoughts ...

1. start out with an easy to manage boat
less control lines to manage
less micro adjusters that will take a while to learn
less of a chance of you getting in over your head that can be very frustrating and discouraging and i have seen many people buy a catamaran, go out a few times, get in over their head and get caught in rough weather and quit the sport because it was such a bad experience

2. start out with a complex boat and learn from the get-go how to manage everything

most start out with #1 and i usually recommend that to most people
pros don't start out racing a formula 1 car, they start out on a go-carts, and smaller rides and step up as skills improve

so unless you are totally gung-ho, know for 100% sure you will love the challenges and dont mind taking your lumps... go for it, but it's NOT hard to find/buy/sell catamarans ... i would recommend to most to start out with an easy boat - ESP if you plan to single hand it

PS how are you going to step the mast and get on and off the beach solo?

Question 1- do you have any beach cat or sailing experience?

Question 2 - would you feel comfortable teaching someone who had never driven before how to drive in a ferrari? That is essentially what you are talking about doing.

The Hobie 20 is at exact opposite end of the performance spectrum from where you want to or should be. I know it seems like it shouldn't make that much difference, but it does. The Hobie 20 is a full on racing boat - fast, powerful, complex, and fragile. If you stick to wind under 10mph maybe you can be successful but the problem is the day you get caught out in a decent blow you're going to be in trouble. That boat is a handful even for experienced sailors when the wind comes up.

My opinion, it is probably not the boat you should get (and yes, I used to own one).

sm

#1 the Hobie 20 is no go solo unless you're a pro sailor. You'll be flying a hull weather you want to or not in any wind above 10mph solo unless you totally de power the boat not to mention the huge mast and 420lbs of boat you'll be lugging in and out of the water ( it's tough with two people ).
My advise is to buy a Hobie 20 AND a Hobie 16!!
Learn on the 16 - it's pretty safe, tough and easy to solo, then take out the 20 when you have crew. At least for the first year or two. I have a 20 and love it - it's a rocket ;)

--
Tim Grover
1996 Hobie Miracle 20
Two Hobie 14's
1983 G-Cat Restored
Memphis TN / North Mississippi
--

fxloop

My advise is to buy a Hobie 20 AND a Hobie 16!!

Or maybe target a P18.2, N5.7 or something like that. For some reason you feel that a 20 ft boat is what you need. Share that and I'm sure you'll get good advice here.

I second the idea of purchasing only one boat, if the learning curve allows it (not quite clear with a H20 as already said), but the key for that might be having some level of support from a more experienced sailor, both for ringging and for sailing. Some people are more intuitive than others, you could mess up with the mast hoisting or ringging and have a hard time before even touching water, for example. Which on the other hand could be quite smooth with someone supervising, just for a beer or for the talk.

I'm in the same boat. Look for a Hobie Pacific. Performance and simplicity!

--
Ron
Big Bear Lake, Ca.
1990 Hobie 18 Worlds
1988 Mac 26Dagger
--

I have never heard or seen one of these. Looks pretty cool

Quote

I'm in the same boat. Look for a Hobie Pacific. Performance and simplicity!

Thanks to all for your awsome advice and assistance. To answer a few of the questions asked, let me try to clarify some points:
1. First I can get a 2006 H20 from a buddy of mine for about $3500 which looks like a pretty good deal to me. I've seen the boat: hulls good and hard, 1 main, two jibs. The main and one jib are excellent. Tramp looks good no rips or tears,...trailer with winch to step mast...
2. I live outside of Houston and have access to both the gulf and area lakes
3. I've rented small cats at the beach but would not say I'm experienced by any means
4. Would like to be able to take 2 couples; combined weight 650# (blame the guys not the ladies) on it occasionally. So I think I need a pretty good sized cat.

If you would allow me a couple of additonal questions:

1. Does anyone know an experienced sailor in my area who might be willing to work with me on the 20? I could pay them a bit, but could offer some fun, beer, ...
2. I'm very willing to spend whatever time is necessary to learn about the cat rigging, before I take it to the lake.
3. I don't want to throw my money away on something I won't be able to master for some time or will not enjoy. However, I love a challenge and feel I'm up to it with a little help from some experienced people like yourselves.
4. Does anyone know anyone in or anything about the "Texas City Dike Yaught Club"? It looks like they are a pretty active group.

Sounds like a good deal. You'll have an extremely hard time finding anything even close to a 2006 20 foot Hobie for $3500. It's big, fast and great in the ocean. I've had 650 lb on my H20 and it sails fine as long as the wind is steady. I regularly sail mine with >400lbs on board - zero chance of winning any races so I installed Hobie magnum wings. Tons of room to relax and sail fast at the same time.



Edited by fxloop on Aug 08, 2014 - 11:07 AM.

--
Tim Grover
1996 Hobie Miracle 20
Two Hobie 14's
1983 G-Cat Restored
Memphis TN / North Mississippi
--

I hate to say this because it does sound like this could be a great deal and the H20 is a great boat, but this just sounds loke the wrong boat for your needs and where you are on the learning curve. Again, the H20 is a thoroughbred racer, not a training or cruising boat. It is complex, not easily depowered, and not tolerant of beginner mistakes. It is the F-1 race car of the Hobie lineup. It is possible that you could be a quick learner and get the knack of sailing the boat quicker than most people, but it is equally or more likely that the boat will kick your ass one day and totally turn you off. In fact, that's what happened to a lot of very experienced racers and one of the reasons the class has mostly died out. In my opinion, you would probably be better off with a boat like a Hobie 18 or a Getaway.

sm

Sm has a point. I would get the H20 and park it on your back yard for a year or two. Then get a H16 for cheap and learn to sail. Once you very comfortable on H16 you could give your H20 a go. H16 is build like a tank and very simple, but with a plenty of power in a good blow.

--
Jack B
Hobie 17
BC, Canada
--

it hit me yesterday ... buy the 20 and purchase a h16 mast/sail

use the 16 rig until you get the skills for the 20 rig

then resell the 16 mast and sail

Talk to this guy then....
http://thebeachcats.com/f…c/15203/start/0#pid52445

MN3

it hit me yesterday ... buy the 20 and purchase a h16 mast/sail

use the 16 rig until you get the skills for the 20 rig

then resell the 16 mast and sail

Getting a Hobie 16 rig to work on a Hobie 20 is going to be a major PITA and expensive and probably wouldn't even "work" very well anyway. The mast base designs are completely different, the boom length, downhaul configuration, and sheeting angles for the main and jib are also completely different between the two boats. Plus shroud lengths would have to be customized as well as some other things I'm sure.

No, I do not recommend you even consider this approach.

Just get a boat that is appropriate for your current skill set and you will be happy in the long run.

sm

But why a H16 mast and not just a sail? He would just need to figure out how to deal with the halyard lock.

Anyway, putting aside the experience, the real challenge is to alternate between solo and the 650# two couples. A Getaway would do that but it's a family boat, much slower. Maybe the H. Pacific as suggested might do that, I don't know. Apparently with a lower compromise on speed. But not on the same budget, that's a new boat, right?

I think the most relevant factor to your decision is whether you really will be sailing solo most of the time. It doesn't sound a good idea then, independently of your experience. But if you will be sailing two or three most of the time, probably it's not that crazy, though a bit irresposible in the initial phase. I would say get a partner for that initial period or carefully chose ligth winds, if that is really possible. Also you should think about how to right the boat solo, I think you need a righting bar.

Don't know where your located or if you're even watching this thread anymore but a buddy and I put together a complete H16 with trailer you can have for $500. Would be a great learner/beginner boat. Located in north Mississippi.

--
Tim Grover
1996 Hobie Miracle 20
Two Hobie 14's
1983 G-Cat Restored
Memphis TN / North Mississippi
--

I agree with Tim! Grab a H16 for $500, earn your "Cat Legs", sail the snot out of it, then even if you sell it a year or two later for half of what you bought it for it would still be cheaper than taking sailing lessons for that same time period. (In actuality you probably will break even as cats in that price range move pretty quickly.)

Yes starting out with an advanced cat might not give you the experience you want and the fun factor will be at an all time low. Plus, when you get in a local club with your H16 you may meet up with H18 or H20 folk and hop a ride to see what it is like and not even like the job, or solidify that it is the right course.

Keep it simple at first is my opinion.

BTW an H16 will hold you and your wife just fine.


--
Ron
Big Bear Lake, Ca.
1990 Hobie 18 Worlds
1988 Mac 26Dagger
--

There are good deals on Hobie 20s all over the place these days, so that's no reason to rush into a boat that might not suit you.

Hook up with the TCDYC folks at http://www.tcdyc.com/ (join their forum and introduce yourself). Lots of good folks, lots of different boats you can probably get a ride on, and lots of help getting started. They sail more often, but the first Saturday of the month is their standing date.

I can't tell you the number of people I've seen struggle horribly because they ran out and got a "good deal" when they had no idea about the model or condition of the boat they were purchasing. Afterwards they show up at our club full of friendly, knowledgeable, helpful people and get the bad news. Get to know your local sailors before purchasing.

If you proceed rationally, you won't have any trouble buying or selling at a fair price around Houston.

--
Jerome Vaughan
Hobie 16
Clinton, Mississippi
--

If your comfy doing this solo at around 9 Mph,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, go for it! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QB7KuJNwdiY

--
Tim Grover
1996 Hobie Miracle 20
Two Hobie 14's
1983 G-Cat Restored
Memphis TN / North Mississippi
--

you all make it sound like it's a 100mph hydroplane

its a 20mph dingy

sail without the jib, put a storm main on the boat and sail the snot out of it....until you can handle it with a jib

YES - take a lesson or 4
YES- sail with people who know how to sail
YES wear a safety gear

Tleguth, where in the Houston are are you located? I sail most Saturdays at the Texas City Dike and you are welcome to drive down sometime and go for a ride on my Prindle 19. It is similar to the Hobie 20. The H-20's rating is 65 while the P-19 is 66.4. I agree with most of the above comments, the Hobie 20 is way too much boat and you can easily get into trouble if the wind comes up. Start with a Hobie 16, Prindle 16, or Nacra 5.0.

Also, TCDYC has a get-together every "First Saturday of the Month" at the dike and we usually have a great turnout. Will normally have around 20 catamarans show up. Come down, ask questions and take a few rides.

MN3

you all make it sound like it's a 100mph hydroplane

its a 20mph dingy

sail without the jib, put a storm main on the boat and sail the snot out of it....until you can handle it with a jib

It's very easy for an experienced sailor to underestimate the learning curve. MN3, what boat did you learn to sail on? The OP said that he has basically zero experience other then renting cats at the beach (and we all know how that typically goes...). So your suggestion continues to be buy a high end racing boat and essentially jury rig it to detune it. Why? So the guy can get a good deal? Wouldn't it make a lot more sense for someone to just buy a boat that is suited to their skill level?

As I said before, there is a chance that the OP could buy the Hobie 20, get it figured out, and end up enjoying the snot out of it. The more likely scenario is that he would buy the Hobie 20, struggle with rigging it, struggle with sailing it, capsize and/or damage the boat, get totally frustrated, give up and sell the boat.

sm

Quote

It's very easy for an experienced sailor to underestimate the learning curve. MN3, what boat did you learn to sail on?

(I AGREE with your statement above)

sunfish/phantom at summer camp in the 70's (was totally clueless)
h16, sailed it about 20 times (was mostly clueless)
h18 sailed it about 200 times (was clueless when i got it... learned a lot over the next few years but still couldn't sail downwind nor understand the jib adjusters - sailed it in some real nasty storms / solo / survived 40mph squalls even hit with a kiteboard sail/chute and survived)
mystere 5.5 sailed it about 1300 times (didn't understand much about the details - learned them on this boat)

I originally stated 2 different ideas here, start out easy and light or go balls to the wall and start out on a fast boat.....

both are doable... depends on the person, desires, time, ability to learn/adapt....

Still not a rocketship.... YES depower it so you don't get in real trouble.... YES because it is such a great deal (sounds about $3500 cheaper than it should be)

FIRST POST
2 train of thoughts ...

1. start out with an easy to manage boat
less control lines to manage
less micro adjusters that will take a while to learn
less of a chance of you getting in over your head that can be very frustrating and discouraging and i have seen many people buy a catamaran, go out a few times, get in over their head and get caught in rough weather and quit the sport because it was such a bad experience

2. start out with a complex boat and learn from the get-go how to manage everything

most start out with #1 and i usually recommend that to most people
pros don't start out racing a formula 1 car, they start out on a go-carts, and smaller rides and step up as skills improve

so unless you are totally gung-ho, know for 100% sure you will love the challenges and dont mind taking your lumps... go for it, but it's NOT hard to find/buy/sell catamarans ... i would recommend to most to start out with an easy boat - ESP if you plan to single hand it



Edited by MN3 on Aug 12, 2014 - 01:33 PM.

My thanks to all of you for sharing you exerience and advice with me. There have been many excellent points made by all and I appreciate you sharing your thoughts with me. What I've taken away from the discussion is:
1. Don't rush into buying a "good deal." It may be more boat than I can handle resulting in frustration, a loss of enthusiasm and it can be costly if I damage the cat.
2. Link up with some experienced sailors who can guide me toward the best cat for me. I'll visit the TCDYC on the first Saturday of Sept. In the meantime, Morris if I could join you some Saturday that would be great for me. I'll contact you to see when it might be convenient for you.
3. Tim, if you are not in a rush to sell your H16 I would certainly be interested in it. I need to make sure it can make the trip to Houston.
Once again, thanks to all of you!

fxloop

If your comfy doing this solo at around 9 Mph,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, go for it! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QB7KuJNwdiY

So Smoooooooove!!! Except for 3:15!

Actually it was pretty smooth too!

--
Ron
Big Bear Lake, Ca.
1990 Hobie 18 Worlds
1988 Mac 26Dagger
--

Quote

Actually it was pretty smooth too!

Not very many boats turn themselves around to pick you up if they don't like you riding them. My H20 is very stable and likes one hull only in the water. It's really a great design, too bad they're not in the "F" spin class of boats....... As a bonus, guys on a budget can own a first class tornado based Hobie cat that loves big water and high performance for less than a $5k. Perfect for sailing fast and comfy :0)



Edited by fxloop on Aug 13, 2014 - 02:58 PM.

--
Tim Grover
1996 Hobie Miracle 20
Two Hobie 14's
1983 G-Cat Restored
Memphis TN / North Mississippi
--

Look, Sailing is Sailing and I really don't think any of the boats everyone is talking about make a difference if the fundamentals of knowing how to sail apply. If your a beginner than any cat over 18' needs another person for ballast to keep it under control in good winds but four people can be fun on a 20' boat if your out tohave a good time. This means you have to know what you are doing on the water and it doesn't really matter what boat you are going to buy. This is the same for a Hobie 14 or a Hobie 21 as they will all capsize the same, unannounced and at the wrong time. Think of where you see yourself sailing because a 20 footer can be fun if your not serius about getting every last knot out of it and just want to have fun. It's usually drier, can carry more people and is more stable. If you want to sail solo than I would think a Nacra 5.0 or Hobie 16 would be a perfect fit otherwise the 20'r will sit unused becuase it's can be hard to get crew. Whichever you buy only time on the water will help.

--
David
Nacra 5.5SL
Nacra 5.2 (sold)
San Diego, CA
--

tleguth, use search engine www.searchtempest.com to look for good deals in your area....

http://sanantonio.craigsl….org/boa/4609776381.html

good luck, keep us posted.