I recently purchased a Hobie 16 and sailed a couple of times. Can I sail with only the main sail using a cable the length of the jib sail to keep the rig tensioned?

John, the H16 is a great solo boat because of its low volume hulls, one way to de-power the boat is to install a furling jib. Other than that, sail within your skill set in winds between 8-10 mph and you will be good. TOW is your friend, the more time on the water sailing, the more you increase your skill, you learn jib back-wind technique and also reverse rudder technique when you blow a tack, and you will blow many tacks when you first start out, but even experienced sailors blow tacks occasionally so don't feel bad, learning to steer the boat when it is backing up is a skill set you will need in the years to come.....

You can sail with the forestay in place and leave the jib down, but you'll find that it's a PITA to tack w/out the jib. The H16 is a great boat for solo sailing, even for beginners. As said, start out in winds below 12 and go from there. If you sail much, you'll find that by the end of your first season you'll be begging for 15kt winds to solo in!

--
Tim
81 Hobie 16
87 Nacra 5.7
Austin, TX
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I'm going through the process now of preparing my Hobie 18 to allow me to handle situations solo. Seems like it is not just the normal sailing issues of tacking and jibing, but also being able to handle the emergency situations like righting the boat. At least with the H18, I have a roller furling and can stow or deploy the jib relatively easily. I wish that the main wasn't on a hook at the top, but I'll just learn to deal with that.

Bob

I second Tim's advice. Sail it solo with the jib, just stay within your limits. As your skills develop, you'll be able to handle increasing wind strengths. Just be conscious of the need to keep you weight aft as the boat powers up. Soloing a 16 on the wire with your rear foot in the strap is a righteous goal!

Dave

Thank you all for the comments! Ill keep it at 8-10 until I get used to it. I know the furling jib is expensive so I'll keep at it. Last week I made a rookie mistake and ended up with a broken mast plate as my mast fell. Embarrassing mistake for sure! I purchased the part and am going this Saturday to fix it. I'm learning the hard way but I am determined and will not give up! Thanks again everyone!

Out of curiosity, what mistake was made that ended in a broken mast plate?

Bob

You'll remember better learning the hard way!
I solo'd a 16 pretty much from the start, I learned a lot of things the hard way, giving yourself the most leverage to right the boat is key. Make sure that there is help around just in case. Early and late season sailing kind of sucks where it gets cold, not many boats around to help out, which makes you sail a little more conservatively.

Otherwise, understand the emergency tactics well so that you can implement them quickly without panic, all that and have fun. Keep an eye on the weather so that you don't get surprised. The wind direction is as important as the speed. I often hear people say what the wind speed is going to be before a race but when you as where is it coming from and if it is going to shift, most people don't know, and the ones that do are usually the ones up front.
Tiller time is your friend, light wind, medium, and heavy wind.
Have a good time and good luck, especially with your mast plate repair, though I'm not sure what you mean by mast plate.

--
Cesar (Cez) S.
Hobie 16 (had a few)
Nacra 5.2 "Hull Yeah"
Vectorworks XJ - A class (not named yet)
West Michigan (Grand Rapids/Holland Area)
--

Hey, Cesar! Yes, the hard way is the way I learn most things. Let's just say I been hurt a lot! Thanks for the advice.
To Bob, I was hoping not to tell all but who knows, maybe it will help some other rookie out there. First of all, when rigging either boat and I'm alone, there is no problem. I find when other people are around just looking or waiting or asking what can I do, this is when things screw up for me. I know what to do in what order but I get distracted when someone who wants to help that does not know what to do or even worse, does not care to know, I get flustered. By the way, it almost happened the week before because some old fart was talking to me when I was tearing down the rig(Ok, I'm 53). I had the forestay in my hand and the mast almost fell backward on the trailer. Well, I thought I learned my lesson....until the next week! This time I was rigging up to go out. My daughter and her boyfriend were kind of helping out. The mast was raised on the trailer, forestay connected. I went to raise the jib sail to tension the rig and noticed one of the shrouds looked like it was over the forestay. So without thinking...... I was in front of the cat near the mast, I told my daughter to disconnect the starboard shroud and hand it to me. Then I told her boyfriend standing on the port side to pull the line OVER the forestay to untangle it! Well, there is went...right to the port side. Her boy friend did somewhat help by slowing it down while it fell. The first thing I did was look around to see WHO saw it! Embarrassing yes but no injuries so I was lucky. So hence the broken mast base. It could have been worse like bending the mast or landing on someone. I told all I know that when we go sailing to stay away from me while I set it up myself and if I need help, I will ask. I hope this helps someone or a least gives the pros a good laugh!



Edited by trailertrashjohn on Nov 04, 2014 - 11:02 AM.

Thanks for the info.

If possible, raise and lower the mast where there is nothing expensive within a 30' radius, ie someone's car or boat.

Dave

Keep the jib on. As Timinaustin mentioned, tacking will become difficult and for someone new to catamarans, you don't need the added frustration. I've sailed my P19 without a jib, it was the first and last time for that experiment. As stated before, sail within your limits at wind speeds below 10 mph. Practice righting the boat with another person until you feel comfortable righting it yourself. Are you well versed on righting techniques? If you get hit by a sudden puff are you going to be able to un-cleat the main quickly? If you sail on a lake (not a large one) and can right the boat solo, there's opportunity to push the envelope harder, go for it. If it's in the open ocean you should seriously consider a lifeline. If you fall off your boat for whatever reason, don't expect it's going to wait for you to get back on. Always use a PFD going solo. When I ocean sail I carry a VHF radio, satellite EPIRB, cellphone, personal strobe and whistle in the zippered pockets of the PFD.

When I set my boat up at the ramp it's easier to hoist the jib on land. I then hand furl it around the forestay securing it with a bungee swinging underneath the bridleand back up to the jib clew. This reduces the winds influence while taking off/on the trailer and that incessant slapping against the mast. For the main, at times you may be tempted to rig in the parking lot under low or no wind conditions. Don't do it, as I nearly flipped my P16 years ago.

It's amazing how much more responsive and light your H16 is without crew and you'll discover the best points of sail will differ. Pop in some earbuds (when appropriate) and play whatever music rocks your boat.

Have a great time!

Good advice for sure Dave.
spfx - Yes, the lifeline would be nice. I'm glad you mentioned this. As for raising the main sail on land, yes I have but this was at a lake and the wind was minimal but ....I did learn a lesson later on that day. There was zero wind and I was on the lake. It just stopped. So we paddled back to shore because we were pretty close. My friend had to leave and I said I'm staying! I forbid to leave until the wind picks up later on. I got off the Hobie and pulled it back wards up on to the sand. I sat in my car for a minute and then I hear, "The Boat!". I look back and see my boat leaving the sand and on to the water. I ran a 50 yard dash, like I was in Junior high school into the water and dove. The top half of my body made it onto the trampoline, grabbed the stretch cord and the boat took off with me hanging off the back. I guess this was my land experience on the Gusts everyone talks about. I recovered and got in to position...and the wind died again! I was done for the day after that! Lesson learned.

I've thought about a lifeline, but was sure what is the best way to do it. Where should it be attached on the boat and on me? How long of line should be used? What is the best way to stow the line to allow it to deploy properly when you fall off?

This sounds wierd and backwards..... But I made it a major point to not flip, capsize or fall off the boat at all and sailing in under 15mph with crew for every sail for the first couple seasons - did slide off the boat for a swim when the winds died, always having help pinning the forestay, and doing 100% casual sails for the first two seasons. 90% inland lakes so your mileage will vary .By the third season I knew the tacking quirks, quick setup, sailing in reverse after blown tacks ect ect. Totaly took the scare factor out of pushing the boat hard, capsizing, pitchpoles and solo sailing.
The people that sailed with me the first year or two would never get back on a catamaran again if I had flipped us more than once and would hate me if I dunked them intentionally ( women ) lol. I did carry an extra 30' mainsheet I'd tie on and throw overboard for anyone swimming to pull back to boat easily.

--
Tim Grover
1996 Hobie Miracle 20
Two Hobie 14's
1983 G-Cat Restored
Memphis TN / North Mississippi
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good advice Tim....we have one season under us and that's pretty much what we have done also...When all is going well it is easy to be pretty cavalier about sailing...don't be...and read all you can too!

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Don Mc
1979 Hobie 16 - WhiteCat
2013 Hobie Getaway
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Quote

If possible, raise and lower the mast where there is nothing expensive within a 30' radius, ie someone's car or boat.

and people! i always make sure people aren't walking past me as i am stepping or dropping the mast.

Couple notes: eventually we all drop our mast at one time or another... usually a huge learning moment
just take your time... who cares if it takes 3 hours to rig the first few times... it gets easier every time

I try to be a good patron of our local beach and I have people come up to me all the time to ask me about my boat. if my mast is up and my jib is on .. no problem... if i am still stepping/rigging i ask them to please hang on for 5 or 10 minutes until i get this 30' stick secure .... it's not rude ... it's all in the way you say it. I will also tell anyone around me to keep alert as i am raising my mast ... never know ... i have dropped a few in my day

Hey All,
I was looking into customizing a lift mechanism for stepping the mast. I'm not a spring chicken and I think I like the safety part of it. I'm learning to become more patient during the rigging process. I saw in the technical section on this site a couple of ideas and some on youtube, showing different methods. I think I'll look more into this to see what is the best method for my trailer. I see different types of trailers out there too. Does anyone older guys out there on this site use any certain method they have to like better than others? Thanks!

John,
I'm 61, badly addicted to this sport, and have built a number of gin poles for mast raising and lowering. Email me and and I'll send you some pics and assembly advice.

Dave

trailertrashjohn

Hey All,
I was looking into customizing a lift mechanism for stepping the mast.

The easiest method is to just install a winch onto the forward mast support on your trailer. Tie the winch line to your forestay (or main halyard or trap wire). Slide your mast back and connect the mast base to the mast step. One person stands on the tramp, the other person stands behind the boat and lifts the mast up to shoulder level and hands it to the person standing on the boat. The person at the back of the boat then walks around to the front and starts cranking the winch to raise the mast. The person on the tramp just guides the mast to keep it from swaying side to side. Once the mast is up, pin the forestay and disconnect the winch line.

sm

Similar to Dogboy's method, you can also do it solo. Get an electric winch w/ remote for under $90 at Harbor Freight. Attach it to your trailer and hook up the trap lines to the winch. Slide the mast back, pin it, and then place the end of the mast on a 6-8' ladder to get it above tramp level. Climb aboard, grab the remote, and start winching, guiding the mast up. Once it's up, use the winch pressure to hold the mast while you hop down and pin the forestay.



Edited by timinaustin on Nov 14, 2014 - 10:45 AM.

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Tim
81 Hobie 16
87 Nacra 5.7
Austin, TX
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Quote

Get an electric winch w/ remote for under $90 at Harbor Freight. Attach i

I hate my at Harbor Freight winch. it sucks
it craps out (probably thermal shutdown) after 10' of line is retracted

worthless- do yourself a favor and go with a better quality brand/ store -

I've been reading about electric winches and the concern for me is power. My trailer power connection is just the 4 in a line type. It was installed by the dealer. So, I honestly don't know what capacity that connection has in terms of amperage. If I add the smallest capability electric winch, will I need to add another set of wires to power it?

ramstadt

If I add the smallest capability electric winch, will I need to add another set of wires to power it?

Absolutely! You'd either want to run the largest gauge power wire you could route directly to the car battery, plus a fuse, or some people carry a separate 12 volt battery in a box on the trailer to power the winch.

The stock wires for the trailer lights have just barely enough power for lights. In fact I use a powered converter for the trailer lights that provides more amps for the lights, which is important if you have a lot of lights on your trailer like four side lights plus rear and center. The stock four plug or non-powered plugs draw power from your tail lights and will sometimes short them out or cause the vehicle lights to dim when the trailer lights are on.

Example of powered trailer light module.
http://www.amazon.com/Val…-Converter/dp/B001KNS8ZA



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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

How To Create Your Signature

How To Create Your Own Cool Avatar

How To Display Pictures In The Forums.
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Battery in a box could work. I have a charger at home that I could use to recharge it.

Thanks for the advice guys! I like both options. Dogboy, I get what you're saying. It's easier if someones around to help me with this. It's definitly easier to install a winch on my existing trailer to assist in raising the mast. Thank you.
Dave, I definitely will email you. I'm interested in seeing what you have on solo mast stepping. Thanks again!

If you have the space and time, nothing is easier than this :

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DO4RxwvjKtM

--
Tim Grover
1996 Hobie Miracle 20
Two Hobie 14's
1983 G-Cat Restored
Memphis TN / North Mississippi
--

Dogboy

trailertrashjohn

Hey All,
I was looking into customizing a lift mechanism for stepping the mast.

The easiest method is to just install a winch onto the forward mast support on your trailer. Tie the winch line to your forestay (or main halyard or trap wire). Slide your mast back and connect the mast base to the mast step. One person stands on the tramp, the other person stands behind the boat and lifts the mast up to shoulder level and hands it to the person standing on the boat. The person at the back of the boat then walks around to the front and starts cranking the winch to raise the mast. The person on the tramp just guides the mast to keep it from swaying side to side. Once the mast is up, pin the forestay and disconnect the winch line.

sm

Dogboy, that's fine when you have someone with you, but when you are alone raising the mast can be a pain.

I made me a triangular mechanism that sits on the trailer right against a couple of the frame bolts that is a little over 6' tall. I run the forestay across the top of it, then hook it to my winch on my mast support of the trailer. I can raise the mast solely with the pole up, the problem is controlling the sway of the mast. I usually have one of my kids on the boat to handle the sway while I raise the mast with the winch. It works well. But I have figured out it's better to raise it with the jib halyard attached to the winch that way the forestay can be easily attached to the bridle while the winch and halyard keep tension on the rig.

--
Carl S
1985 Hobie 16 the kids call her "Queso"
Baytown, TX Sea Scout Ship 208 "Red Skies Ship 208" on facebook
Nacra, Dolphin, Capri, Sunfish, MacGregor 26x, these are a few of the boats we sail
--

Hey Carl, my concern with using the jib halyard is that it is cable attached to a line. Is this not the week point? I get what you are saying, the forestay is easy to hook up this way since it is loose. Is this ok because you use the 6' triangular mechanism which takes a lot of strain out of the lift process? What type of tripod mechanism do you have and price? Any pictures?

http://www.thebeachcats.c…pictures?g2_itemId=53380

This is an early solo mast step rig I built for my H16, I continue to use the same basic concept to this day, using strong flat rubber bungees attached to the trap wires to provide forward tension to hold the mast up. On some of my rigs, I use the forward mast holder as my gin-pole but add back-stays to provide stability, even when I trailer the boat backwards, the same concept applies except I now step the mast using man-power instead of a winch. 2 flat rubber bungees attached to the thimble on the bottom of each of the trap-wires and pulled forward and attached to some point on the trailer with as much forward tension as possible. Raise the mast, step off and pin forestay, there is a point when raising the mast that the bungees are stretched almost max, creating a little resistance but once past that point they help pull the mast vertical and keep it there while I attach forestay.

HTH

the-renovator

using strong flat rubber bungees attached to the trap wires to provide forward tension to hold the mast up.

This is what I use as well. I've tried double bungees, but they would not provide enough tension. One issue with flat rubber bungee -- it can break without warning. My new upgrade will be replacing the rubber with a set of 4-6x regular bungees in parallel. See how this goes.

This is my setup, as well as discussion on the same topic:

http://www.hobiecat.com/f…hp?f=23&t=51335&start=15

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Jack B
Hobie 17
BC, Canada
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The triangular mechanism I built is just a couple of chain link fence top rails welded to a piece of angle iron and with another small piece of angle iron welded in at the top where the two poles come together to form a V for the forestay/halyard to ride in.
The bottom angle iron piece is probably around 4 feet wide with the fence posts angle grinded and welded one on each end of the angle, then welded together at the top with the small 1.5" piece of angle iron holding it together. It is a very crude design that I just threw together with stuff I had laying around the house to try to make something work. I've only used it a couple of times when I had my younger kids with me. But it supports the full weight of the mast for the lifting and if I had a way to keep it from swaying side to side (I like the bungee idea and will try that this year) I could solo raise the mast. The triangular mechanism isn't fastened down, so as you start winching and lifting the mast, the triangle actually tilts forward with the pressure from the cable and once you have your tension on it with the mast up, will typically fall down. Allowing it to tilt as the mast raises keeps it from damaging the insulation on the cable.

I am able to raise the mast myself by just pinning it at the base and picking it up from the back of the tramp, rest it on my knees, then scoop it up and step it up the rest of the way. The problem there is getting the forestay pinned if you don't have someone there to assist. I've heard of another way of doing it, which is to attach a pulley to the bridle rig, attach a rope to the halyard or forestay and run it through the pulley and back to one of the jib cleats and through, then maybe clip it on your waste. Then step the mast and keep one hand up supporting the mast while you use your other hand to pull the rope through the cleat and lock it down to hold the mast up. Then you can go pin the forestay. I have the stuff to do this, but haven't tried it yet either as I've always had one of my kids with me to sail.

--
Carl S
1985 Hobie 16 the kids call her "Queso"
Baytown, TX Sea Scout Ship 208 "Red Skies Ship 208" on facebook
Nacra, Dolphin, Capri, Sunfish, MacGregor 26x, these are a few of the boats we sail
--

Thanks Carl. I used that jib cleat method by myself and yes, it works fine. I can step the mast myself by picking it up too but I just wanted a way to make it safer for me and anyone near.