Klozhald, I bet you were pumpin the hell out of the main sheet AND traveler when you crossed waaaaayyy close in front of that cargo hauler in the second leg of the Tripoint this last august!! I hear those things put out a Heck of a shadow when you cross in their lee. Especially within a hundred yards or so with them full speed ahaid! Scary s#!+ man! Maybe it looked in the video worse than it was due to telephoto compression?

azcat

Klozhald, I bet you were pumpin the hell out of the main sheet AND traveler when you crossed waaaaayyy close in front of that cargo hauler in the second leg of the Tripoint this last august!! I hear those things put out a Heck of a shadow when you cross in their lee. Especially within a hundred yards or so with them full speed ahaid! Scary s#!+ man! Maybe it looked in the video worse than it was due to telephoto compression?

Here you be the judge start at about 3:00

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQSasSXnrTU#t=572

100 or 500 yards doesn't matter, they were pretty close. Bob was bragging about it afterwards at the club, and the guys that shot the video were real concerned. Bob needs to understand all the alarm bells that went off on that boat when they saw him push it...

I guess this is what my daddy meant he said... 'if that boy had a brain he would be lonesome."

Not to worry, we're going to have a nice briefing about this at the safety meeting next year...

--
John Schwartz
Ventura, CA
--

I think that would be wonderful .

I was the first one in the video to cross and will NEVER do that again. In the moment I had confidence on the crossing but after I realized everything that could have gone wrong from stalling out to equipment failure it was plain stupid.

--
David
Nacra 5.5SL
Nacra 5.2 (sold)
San Diego, CA
--

We have lots of lakes freighters coming through Lk St. Clair - some of them 1000+ft. Always makes me nervous crossing the channel - even if they're a mile off!

To the original post, I read recently in one of the Frank Bethwaite books (Fast Handling Techniques) where he recommended traveler-style sheeting up to the design wind (just to the point of being overpowered). Rationale is that you're not losing as much forward drive from the top of the sail as you do with the mainsheet that allows twist. Sounds interesting, but I've never tried it under controlled setting to see if it makes any difference.

--
Jeff R
'88 H18 "Jolly Mon"
'10 C2 USA1193
NE IN / SE MI
cramsailing.com
--

Quote

Here you be the judge start at about 3:00

Yikes!

Yikes x200, mega balz to go thru that!!! New pants needed ??

--
Tim Grover
1996 Hobie Miracle 20
Two Hobie 14's
1983 G-Cat Restored
Memphis TN / North Mississippi
--

Holy cow!

JohnES

100 or 500 yards doesn't matter, they were pretty close. Bob was bragging about it afterwards at the club, and the guys that shot the video were real concerned. Bob needs to understand all the alarm bells that went off on that boat when they saw him push it...
I guess this is what my daddy meant he said... 'if that boy had a brain he would be lonesome."

John, why do you have the need to make this stuff up?
I have never bragged about this crossing.
Why would I brag about something this dumb and dangerous?
That is simply a lie, and a malicious one at that, coupled with your demeaning quotes.
We mis-judged the speed of the tanker, after first thinking we were looking at the stern, not the bow.
I hung that video in FB as a cautionary tale, and yet you immediately made it your soapbox so that you could say rude and untrue things.

Your behavior in a leadership role is very disappointing.

“Arguments cannot be answered by personal abuse; there is no logic in slander, and falsehood, in the long run, defeats itself.”
― Robert G. Ingersoll

--
Sheet In!
Bob
_/)_____/)_/)____/)____/)_____/)/)__________/)__
Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
AZ Multihull Fleet 42 member
(Way) Past Commodore of Prindle Fleet 14
Arizona, USA
--

klozhald

JohnES

100 or 500 yards doesn't matter, they were pretty close. Bob was bragging about it afterwards at the club, and the guys that shot the video were real concerned. Bob needs to understand all the alarm bells that went off on that boat when they saw him push it...
I guess this is what my daddy meant he said... 'if that boy had a brain he would be lonesome."

John, why do you have the need to make this stuff up?
I have never bragged about this crossing.
Why would I brag about something this dumb and dangerous?
That is simply a lie, and a malicious one at that, coupled with your demeaning quotes.
We mis-judged the speed of the tanker, after first thinking we were looking at the stern, not the bow.
I hung that video in FB as a cautionary tale, and yet you immediately made it your soapbox so that you could say rude and untrue things.

Your behavior in a leadership role is very disappointing.

“Arguments cannot be answered by personal abuse; there is no logic in slander, and falsehood, in the long run, defeats itself.”
― Robert G. Ingersoll

Bob,

Let me redact the statement about your bragging about this Darwin Candidate maneuver as I was not a witness to this conversation.. However, the second hand information was brought to my attention from a creditable source.... not from someone that is known to make things up... That said, if this was true, and I was there, trust me you had been dressed down right then and there...

For that I apologize.

Secondly, I have to challenge you on your statement about not knowing if it was the bow or the stern of the boat. Are you not looking about your surroundings and aware of what is going on when sailing in the Santa Barbara Channel? Have we not made this point clear in the safety briefing that is scan the horizon? As a note, my crew picked that boat up when it was halfway down the face of Santa Cruz Island... a good 7 to 10 miles away. Please let me know..... And please explain to me how you mis- judged the movement and the direction of one very large very red boat. As an experienced mariner such as your self had missed this, maybe others are too, and this something that will need to be incorporated and overly stressed into the safety briefing for 2015. Maybe we can prevent these; as you said, dumb and dangerous stunts in the future...

Thirdly, when it comes to safe sailing, keeping people alive, and preserving these races I will make this my soapbox and if I have to use you as the example of what not to do... you can count on this. Don't like it, don't do dumb stuff..

Also Bob, you have my email and cell phone number.... you don't like my method give me a shout. I'll be glad to talk with you as I am also very interested in learning how you misjudged bow for the stern, the direction, and the speed of a very large very red boat that just about everyone else took to port...



Edited by JohnES on Dec 29, 2014 - 04:28 PM.

--
John Schwartz
Ventura, CA
--

You guys don't really need to use this forum for your dispute, please take it elsewhere. Thanks.

Dave

This is getting a bit personal but you can never under-stress the importance of safety on a vessel, esp when you are talking about seamanship that can have drastic and unintentional results.

maybe someone who reads this will think 2 or 3 times (or 4 or 5 times) before taking such a risky action -

JohnES

klozhald

JohnES

100 or 500 yards doesn't matter, they were pretty close. Bob was bragging about it afterwards at the club, and the guys that shot the video were real concerned. Bob needs to understand all the alarm bells that went off on that boat when they saw him push it...
I guess this is what my daddy meant he said... 'if that boy had a brain he would be lonesome."

John, why do you have the need to make this stuff up?
I have never bragged about this crossing.
Why would I brag about something this dumb and dangerous?
That is simply a lie, and a malicious one at that, coupled with your demeaning quotes.
We mis-judged the speed of the tanker, after first thinking we were looking at the stern, not the bow.
I hung that video in FB as a cautionary tale, and yet you immediately made it your soapbox so that you could say rude and untrue things.

Your behavior in a leadership role is very disappointing.

“Arguments cannot be answered by personal abuse; there is no logic in slander, and falsehood, in the long run, defeats itself.”
― Robert G. Ingersoll

Bob,

Let me redact the statement about your bragging about this Darwin Candidate maneuver as I was not a witness to this conversation.. However, the second hand information was brought to my attention from a creditable source.... not from someone that is known to make things up... That said, if this was true, and I was there, trust me you had been dressed down right then and there...

For that I apologize.

Secondly, I have to challenge you on your statement about not knowing if it was the bow or the stern of the boat. Are you not looking about your surroundings and aware of what is going on when sailing in the Santa Barbara Channel? Have we not made this point clear in the safety briefing that is scan the horizon? As a note, my crew picked that boat up when it was halfway down the face of Santa Cruz Island... a good 7 to 10 miles away. Please let me know..... And please explain to me how you mis- judged the movement and the direction of one very large very red boat. As an experienced mariner such as your self had missed this, maybe others are too, and this something that will need to be incorporated and overly stressed into the safety briefing for 2015. Maybe we can prevent these; as you said, dumb and dangerous stunts in the future...

Thirdly, when it comes to safe sailing, keeping people alive, and preserving these races I will make this my soapbox and if I have to use you as the example of what not to do... you can count on this. Don't like it, don't do dumb stuff..

Also Bob, you have my email and cell phone number.... you don't like my method give me a shout. I'll be glad to talk with you as I am also very interested in learning how you misjudged bow for the stern, the direction, and the speed of a very large very red boat that just about everyone else took to port...Edited by JohnES on Dec 29, 2014 - 04:28 PM.

Edited by MN3 on Dec 30, 2014 - 07:56 AM.

MN3

maybe someone who reads this will think 2 or 3 times (or 4 or 5 times) before taking such a risky action -

Perhaps, but the discussion is now so far removed from the original topic that the moderator should delete the last several posts and copy them into a new forum entry. These posts have zero relevance to the question regarding using the traveler for trimming.

sm

What?

--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

How To Create Your Signature

How To Create Your Own Cool Avatar

How To Display Pictures In The Forums.
--

big ship encounter with a sail boat...

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=723824664322574&set=vb.722783644426676&type=3&theater

--
Marek
1992 Prindle 19
1981 Prindle 16
--

Damn, if that anchor had not been there, he would have made it.

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

oh look, a hornets nest! What should I do with this stick?



Edited by azcat on Dec 31, 2014 - 10:27 AM.

I remember blowing a tack on Norfolk Harbor Reach in my old Sailmaster 26 with a Turkish freighter bearing down on us. I had failed to emphasize strongly enough to my green jib crew the importance of sheeting home on the new tack quickly. We were quite close to that ship with his horn sounding when I got that tack done. I'll never forget how big that ship got.

--
'82 Super Cat 15
Hull #315
Virginia
Previously owned: '70 H14, '79 H16, '68 Sailmaster 26, '85 H14T
--

I understand how in a long race that it is difficult to avoid shipping channels completely. Shouldn't race coordinators do everything possible to set up race courses that avoid shipping channels?

If you're on a lake sailing it would be very easy to four race coordinators to avoid shipping lanes however if you're off the coast on either cost or any cost there is very likely to be some sort of shipping line that crosses a race course or vice versa whichever way you look at it.thatincludes the Great Lakes which also have shipping lanes some of which could be close to a coastline.or for instance the Mississippi River which has plenty of barge traffic. This is especially true near populated areas where there are likely to be shipping lanes and regattas. It is highly unlikely to that the shipping traffic would be on any set schedule so that certain time periods for shipping would not coincide with regattas. safety while on the water is the responsibility of every skipper in charge of A boat while on the water. This includes the safety of his own boat his crew and any other boat near him on the water/or her. Anthony, my highly skilled crew, did a very good job of assessing our position versus the ship.and by the way the ship was hauling a SS for something that size.

During the tripoint race I crossed probably close to a mile maybe a mile and a half in front of that tanker and it was still uncomfortable. It was also a little bit hard to assess the speed and direction of that cargo ship because it was directly behind me as I was trapped out and it was very hard for me to turn around and actually see the boat to keep track of it. We were however far enough aheadthat I didn't feel that it would be a problem for us.You never know when something that you don't think it's going to happen happens. You stick a bow into a wave and go over and just happened to be right in front of that boat there isA strong likelihood that they may not even see you. I would imagine that in the area that this boat was motoring they may have had lookouts especially seeing a fleet of sailboats about to cross that path.that still doesn't mean that that ship could've done anything to stop or even change course had someone gotten in trouble in front of it even a quarter-mile in front of it. I was the first Catamaran that you see in the video on and I 20. I kept a very close eye on that ship to try and gauge is speed against mine and how far in front of them I was going to cross.even that far ahead I was very nervous and sailed with a little bit of reserve to make sure that we didn't have a problem. I remember remarking as we got out towards the island and the other boats were nearing the ship,that there was a good chance that nearly all of the other competitors would have to cross behind the ship.

ramstadt

I understand how in a long race that it is difficult to avoid shipping channels completely. Shouldn't race coordinators do everything possible to set up race courses that avoid shipping channels?

We have plenty of races that are not near the shipping lanes and are well out of the way.... these races, not so and difficult to do... some of our best wind is right in the middle of these lanes... With that we practice good seamanship and keep our head on a swivel constantly looking for traffic...

What we do is have a safety briefing for all sailors that are participating that these are very large, fast moving vessels that once the hit you it will take them five miles to come to a stop... by then, you're shark bait. And, you'll be the one at fault for not give the right of way to a commercial vessel...

Many of these modern ships have video cameras mounted on the bow to watch for traffic, they also have a safety zone... similar to the back up cameras on cars.... the minute you enter that zone they go to battle stations, alarm bells go off, and they prepare for the worst... as well, call the Coast Guard and log an incident.

--
John Schwartz
Ventura, CA
--

azcat

oh look, a hornets nest! What should I do with this stick?Edited by azcat on Dec 31, 2014 - 10:27 AM.

Too late, I already pitched a heater at it!

--
John Schwartz
Ventura, CA
--

The Tripoint is the best race we do all year. If there were an island between me and my next course change, I would figure out the best way around it. Same as with a humongous ship that will scratch my boat. I believe that this has been a worthwhile conversation to be continued at all skippers meetings where where large,potentially deadly objects may be present. It is not an admission of small balls to take the safe route. To the contrary.

Happy new year to all. I wish you all many years of relatively safe sailing! Thanks to all who have given advise to those of us in need of answers in the past year.

I love this sport!!!

From Europe.. yes, that was a bold decision to cross
in front of the freighter. No way to argue it.
Please keep this forum a happy place where we can share
moments and help each other with issues.
That's why I like it here......

André

--
Tornado (80's Reg White)
Prindle 18-2 (sold)
Dart 16 (hired and hooked)
13 mtr steel cutter (sold)
Etap 22, unsinkable sailing pocket cruiser.

Amsterdam, the Netherlands
--

Here is a nice shot of a sailboat cutting in front of a ferry in Massachusetts. Can anyone point out where the sailboat captain made his first mistake? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRErN7MdI0k DUH!!!