Hi,
I've discovered that a Prindle 19mx is a bit harder to right than my old Nacra 5.2 and I came across a great righting pole design in the Beachcats Technical section.
Link: http://www.thebeachcats.com/pictures?g2_itemId=79873

The only thing preventing me from moving forward is that I have no idea where to find a hinge similar to the one in the pictures. Has anyone here built this design? If so, where did you source this hinge and are there any issues in practice with this design?

I PMed the user who posted the pictures but never heard back.

Thanks in advance!

--
1990 Prindle 19MX
1976 Nacra 5.2
--

I believe that the author made that hinge. I copied this hinge design and made mine out of delrin rod that I
bought from Ebay. If you are handy it can be made with just hand tools. I used a wood band saw and drill for most of it. I did turn a bit off the rod in a lathe so it fit tight in the pole. I have seen hinges for sale but not sure where.

Pete

--
Pete Knapp
Schodack landing,NY
Goodall Viper,AHPC Viper,Nacra I20
--

Quote

I PMed the user who posted the pictures but never heard back.

That pole is from Nacraman, he doesn't check here all the time, but he is very active in sailing. I'll look up his email,(on another computer) & PM it to you.
The man has mucho Nacra experience, & is a real gentleman.
Pete, did you buy that Tornado?
http://www.thebeachcats.c…9-tornado-catamaran.html
I convinced him to post it here, then my buddy gave me hell for driving up the price, as in "just buy it, it's a 6 beer road trip. You know you want it, & your wife won't care, what's another boat on the dock?"



Edited by Edchris177 on Sep 03, 2015 - 01:29 AM.

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

Ooops... sorry about not catching the PM, Grog. The hinge assembly you were looking at was sourced from a contractor's dumpster who used to build equipment for food proccesing plants. It is the same material as cutting boards. Indestructable! It was handbuilt with the normal tools you'd find in a woodshop. On the great plains reservoirs where I sail (solo much of the time) you can be 15-20 miles from help so you better be well versed in self-rescue. I have experimented with just about every kind of righting method. What I liked about this design was the ability to change pole angles while standing on the hull. I have the Hawaiian system under my 5.7. But after all that, I have found that a simple rope tied to the base of the mast and over the hull is just as good (and faster) than the "gimmicks". And Ed....thanks for the kind comments. I'm blushing as I write this. You're right, I need to check in more often. Talking 91 degrees today...se winds 15-20, gusts to 25 which means I can reach for 15 miles without tacking! I'm retired and I'm going sailing!!!

Browsing various discussions here and on catsailor I also read a comment from a regular Prindle sailor he preferred Murray's large righting bag for solo sailing the Prindle 19...I have yet to solo my P19 but will carry my righting bag for sure..am thinking about mounting a pole if the boat is faster/easier to right that way...

another option...Gary Friesen made a Solo Righting pole that fit into Hobie's hull where the center board is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCbihZsXESg

The Prindle 19 would probably need to be modified to fit in the centerboard or maybe one would pull one out to insert a stick...carbon pole plus some end bat/oar addition that fits in the slot maybe even a small seat to put your full weight on at the other end.

there's an online vendor that sells a power right similar to the "home-made" version...it's not cheap though at almost $300.

With either option you still need significant weight or leverage meaning length of the pole/ability for it to angle up when you hike further out.

--
Marek
1992 Prindle 19
1981 Prindle 16
--

I set up a pole on my 18-2 and used the gooseneck bracket (that rivets to the mast). I put it in a vice and 'closed' the side pieces and then just bolted the bracket around the dolphin striker. I had an old Hobie 18 spinnaker pole that had the gooseneck pin like the one on a Hobie 16/14. You could then use a Hobie 16 boom or even an old (round) Prindle boom and use the gooseneck components.

Although it isn't as sexy as Nacraman's it would get your system up and running faster...

I'm talking about the yoke:

http://www.murrays.com/50-60710000.html

I have used the lower 8' of a windsurf mast for the pole, and the universal joint from that rig, and fabricated a simple metal bracket that the universal joint bolted to, and riveted the bracket to the underside of the main beam. Very cheap, still working well on the F16. I'll look for a pic.

Dave



Edited by davefarmer on Sep 03, 2015 - 11:00 AM.

Here's a whole section with different pole systems:

http://www.thebeachcats.com/pictures?g2_itemId=35080

Gary Friesen style home built that a sailor posted on beachcats a couple of years ago:

http://www.thebeachcats.com/pictures?g2_itemId=83390



Edited by marekli on Sep 03, 2015 - 04:30 PM.

--
Marek
1992 Prindle 19
1981 Prindle 16
--

Thanks for all the great replies!

Nacraman: Thanks for getting back on the hinge. Too bad it isn't a grainger item! I wish that a regular righting rope worked for me but at 130 pounds, I need more righting arm.

Marke: Lots of great ideas in those links.

Pete: Awesome that you were able to fabricate that hinge. I'm sure I could do the same but it would take me forever and the result wouldn't be pretty!

Dan: As you said, not the best looking but it would be cheap, fast, and easy. I'd need another piece so that the pole can tilt up towards to the hull that is in the air.

Dave: I'm picking favorites here and I think I'll go with your idea. Clean looking, very strong, and pretty cheap. I found the universal joint you talk about: http://www.murrays.com/01-9525.html
$24 is cheap enough and is exactly what I was looking for. I can fabricate the bracket that I'll rivet to the front beam. Getting the lower half of a windsurfer mast would be ideal but seem to expensive even on craigslist so I'll go the cheap route of an aluminum schedule 80 pole.



Edited by grogthegreat on Sep 03, 2015 - 05:42 PM.

--
1990 Prindle 19MX
1976 Nacra 5.2
--

[/quote]
Pete, did you buy that Tornado?
[/quote]

I did not buy that Tornado. I saw it the night before we had plans to drive 2 hours to look at a Nacra 6.0.
We did buy a nice solid 6.0 for $1500 on a galvanized trailer. Pretty sweet deal. Woulda been nice to have another Sailcraft Tornado though. Wonder if the new owner is here or on Tornadocats. Was surprised that you didn't jump on that one? They are an awesome ride.

Pete



Edited by pknapp66 on Sep 03, 2015 - 06:43 PM.

--
Pete Knapp
Schodack landing,NY
Goodall Viper,AHPC Viper,Nacra I20
--

this guy in the clip releases tension of the shroud to aid in turning the hull. Seems s bit dangerous

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqY_zMlETo0

Has anyone attempted attaching a pulley a few feet up the mast to run the righting line thru? Seems that should give better torque moment..

--
Marek
1992 Prindle 19
1981 Prindle 16
--

marekli

this guy in the clip releases tension of the shroud to aid in turning the hull. Seems s bit dangerous

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqY_zMlETo0

Has anyone attempted attaching a pulley a few feet up the mast to run the righting line thru? Seems that should give better torque moment..

He's using Hobie's solo righting system. http://www.hobiecat.com/f…11c0f5efc22e0c9fc57cfc23 Which I think has the greatest righting power, it's the logistics of using it that may be difficult.

I've always wanted to copy Hobie's system with spectra line and micro blocks so you had a way to tension the shroud for re-connection once boat was upright.

There is also this type of shroud extender.

https://www.saltydogmarine.com/product_info.php?products_id=2491

--
Pete Knapp
Schodack landing,NY
Goodall Viper,AHPC Viper,Nacra I20
--

I also had a hard time yesterday trying to right my 19mx. Done it before without too much problems ,mind you we had to both(combined 370 lbs) go back just about touching water until it slowly..but slowly started to come up. Tomorrow we try a aluminium stick attached by simple swing hinge riveted just behind the dolphin striker. If works I'll post a few photos ..

The larger Supercats have a shroud extending system that's well developed, consisting of a Hyfield lever to release enough tension to allow a pin to be pulled, releasing the upper shroud, the load now being transferred to a 30" extension wire, which allows the upper hull to begin falling back towards the water, so the weight of that upper hull is now working with your crew weight to leverage the mast out of the drink. Works well most of the time. Absolutely requires that the mast be secured to the mast base to work, otherwise the mast would just fall out of the base when the shroud tension was relaxed. The SCs have a pin in the alum base casting that captures the rotation ball attached to the end of the mast. The two issues I've run into both occur in nasty conditions. One is that the boat's orientation to the wind needs to be addressed for righting to be successful, which is true for all cats when it's blowing hard(and when you're most likely to go over). I carry a drift sock that is deployed off the lower bow, to keep the bows into the wind. This allows wind to get under the main to assist popping it out of the water. The bow into the wind orientation is also necessary to keep you from fighting the wind pressure on the tramp if the mast trails to leeward. And with the bows into the wind, when the boat comes upright, it's not sideways to the pressure and at risk of getting blown over again, or taking off without you.

The other issue with the shroud extension system in big weather, is the difficulty of getting the shroud re pinned, particularly solo. The boat needs to be on the tack that stands the mast up with the now very loose shroud to leeward, and the skipper needs to leave the helm(or a least can't pay close attention to keeping the boat on a depowered course, but not allow it to tack and have the mast flail about wildly with the exta long shroud) to grab the shroud end, insert it into the Hyfield lever, re pin, close the Hyfield, and return to the helm. All in big wind, with the sails flapping, and the boat bouncing around in the significant chop. Much easier with a second crewmember. All quite different from the H20 video of the righting procedure presented in very light air. I was a little surprised that he could capsize it in that breeze.

I have a set of Hyfield levers from an SC19 for sale in the classifieds if someone wants to make the modifications.

http://www.thebeachcats.com/classifieds/catamaran-parts-for-sale/p13390-supercat-19-and-20-parts.html

Dave



Edited by davefarmer on Sep 05, 2015 - 03:14 PM.

[quote=davefarmer]I have used the lower 8' of a windsurf mast for the pole, and the universal joint from that rig, and fabricated a simple metal bracket that the universal joint bolted to, and riveted the bracket to the underside of the main beam. Very cheap, still working well on the F16.

Here are the pics:

http://www.thebeachcats.com/pictures?g2_itemId=119714

Dave

With the shroud extender system you can use your trap wire as a temporary shroud to pull the mast back in line while you pin the lever back in place and close it.

--
'82 Super Cat 15
Hull #315
Virginia
Previously owned: '70 H14, '79 H16, '68 Sailmaster 26, '85 H14T
--

I made one by riveting two SS right angle tangs behind the dolphin striker as emmettv suggests. The pole was an 1/8" wall 1" square aluminum tube 6061-T6 alloy. The tension lines were of 1/8" double braid low stretch material. Each end of these lines were shackled to SS tangs which were bolted near the end of the 1" square tube and onto the one of the existing bolts attaching the diagonal aluminum bar of the dolphin striker near the hull. I used double sided velcro to tie the pole in its stored position and used another piece wrapped around the SS rod below the mast to keep it from collapsing/rotating back when in use. It worked great on my P18.

For my P19 I now use a 200 lbs righting bag which is much more difficult, but less contraption to concern myself with.

SS Tangs From Aircraft Spruce- www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/tag304.php?clickkey=503436
Tubing from McMaster Carr- www.mcmaster.com/#standard-aluminum-hollow-tubing/=yub8ba

Buy a cheap rivet gun from Harbor freight

Checkout McMaster for other items you may need


Lance

KISS man...

don't use a "rigid" hinge.

drill a hole or something in the end of your pole where the hinge would be.
put a line through.... put the pole where it would go under the crossbar... under the mast.. behind the dolphin striker rod...

run the line from the pole up front of the crossbar, around your mast step, and back.
tie tightly.
adjust so that the pole will swing out, BUT REMAIN pressing against the crossbar when "in use"...

if the line is too slack, the pole will go into the tramp, tighten the line up.

that's it.

affix a line at the other end of the righting pole, and make a place for it to connect to the front crossbar up at the hull when you use it... and a bungee to secure up under the boat when you're not.

(make sure your lines are secure, and no chances for chafing...)
(the pole is basically a strut... you could use a piece of 2x2 lumber, probably... so for $8, you're set)

cheers,
Rob
Blade F-16 "DoubleTime 2"



Edited by robpatt on Sep 08, 2015 - 12:41 PM.

Has anyone heard of someone using the shroud extension system and the mast coming off the ball. The Supercats can pin the mast to the ball yet allow mast rotation. Do not think that is possible with other cats. Just thinking it could go from bad to worse especially if one turtled and the mast came off the ball.
I hate negative thoughts.

--
Prindle 18 w/ wings, Prindle 16, Prindle 15, current
Hobie 16 in rebuild
2 Hobie 18 past
NACRA 5.2 past

Saint Cloud, Florida
member Lake Eustis Sail Club
http://www.lakeeustissailingclub.org
--

FloridaRoadie

Has anyone heard of someone using the shroud extension system and the mast coming off the ball.

DaveFarmer

Absolutely requires that the mast be secured to the mast base to work, otherwise the mast would just fall out of the base when the shroud tension was relaxed. The SCs have a pin in the alum base casting that captures the rotation ball attached to the end of the mast.

--
Sheet In!
Bob
_/)_____/)_/)____/)____/)_____/)/)__________/)__
Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
AZ Multihull Fleet 42 member
(Way) Past Commodore of Prindle Fleet 14
Arizona, USA
--

after searching for a while I picked up an 8ft carbon fiber windsurf mast locally for $50.

Chinook makes a U joint:


http://www.windance.com/Chinook-Mechanical-U-Joint-WSWP2353/

and a base cup kit:

http://sailsportmarine.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=401

available for about $40 that can be attached to a 2" diameter pole. Then all that's needed is a metal bracket that attaches to the base of the U joint and that can be riveted to the crossbar. Whole thing will cost $100 max.



Edited by marekli on Sep 15, 2015 - 12:51 AM.

--
Marek
1992 Prindle 19
1981 Prindle 16
--

car_guy

marekli

this guy in the clip releases tension of the shroud to aid in turning the hull. Seems s bit dangerous

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqY_zMlETo0

Has anyone attempted attaching a pulley a few feet up the mast to run the righting line thru? Seems that should give better torque moment..

He's using Hobie's solo righting system. http://www.hobiecat.com/f…11c0f5efc22e0c9fc57cfc23 Which I think has the greatest righting power, it's the logistics of using it that may be difficult.

I've always wanted to copy Hobie's system with spectra line and micro blocks so you had a way to tension the shroud for re-connection once boat was upright.

I picked up a 1992 Prindle 19 a few days ago that seems equipped with the shroud extenders that look similar to those used in the Hobie video to facilitate righting. Has anyone seen something like this on a Prindle? I am curious whether it may work and without letting the mast go floating....

--
Marek
1992 Prindle 19
1981 Prindle 16
--