Okay so I removed the rudders from my "new to me" H16 and one cotter pin broke off inside the hole in the hinge pin and I cannot seem to get it out. I have tried a small punch and even broke a drill bit trying g to drill it out. Anyone have any suggestions or should I keep trying to push it out with the punch or drill it? My thinking is that I would use rings, for securing the hinge pins, instead of the cotter pins so that I could easily remove the rudders when traveling. Thanks for any suggestions.

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Marty
1984 Hobie 16 Redline Yellow Nationals, "Yellow Fever"
Opelika, Al / Lake Martin
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Should be able to get the pin in a vice and gently tap or drill the cotter pin out. If they are nylon they may deform from too much pounding. It's a nice cheap replacement part to have on hand, I like stainless ones. I wouldn't worry about taking rudders off for transport, not really many benefits and adds to setup time.

Get a new pin? They're like $10, why kill yourself on this.

sm



Edited by Dogboy on Jul 08, 2016 - 10:28 PM.

Thanks, and these are aluminum pins. I was thinking about changing them to stainless. Dogboy, where do you find pins for 10 bucks? The ones I have seen are sold in pairs, I think I saw the stainless ones on ebay for something like 25 bucks with shipping.

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Marty
1984 Hobie 16 Redline Yellow Nationals, "Yellow Fever"
Opelika, Al / Lake Martin
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You could just drill another hole in the pin. I bought a length of stainless from the metal yard for something like 30 bucks. It's enough for 4-5 pairs of rudder pins and they are indestructible unlike the aluminum ones.

Yes I was thinking about just drilling the cotter pin out with a slightly larger drill bit. Hey tamumpower1, looking at your avatar, it seems we have the same style of sail, the color panels are flipped though, neat.



Edited by martyr on Jul 08, 2016 - 11:23 PM.

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Marty
1984 Hobie 16 Redline Yellow Nationals, "Yellow Fever"
Opelika, Al / Lake Martin
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martyr

Yes I was thinking about just drilling the cotter pin out with a slightly larger drill bit. Hey tamumpower1, looking at your avatar, it seems we have the same style of sail, the color panels are flipped though, neat.Edited by martyr on Jul 08, 2016 - 11:23 PM.

Yea both my boats have the same style sail but my yellow hull 18 has the same sail as yours where the stripe is flipped.

The yellow boat is a 85 and the white one a 86. Since your boat is an 84 I guess that was just an update they made for a different year.





Edited by tamumpower1 on Jul 09, 2016 - 01:12 AM.

You can order a 2 foot length of 316 SS rod, 3/8" diameter from McMaster Carr for $9. Enough for at least 2 pins. Cut it to length and drill your holes. It will never bend, break, or corrode. Just make sure it isn't in direct contact with the rudder casting (use bushings) or it will seize in the casting.

sm

Hey thanks. Yeah, I tried drilling that little booger out of the hole again today with no luck. I think I will just replace the aluminum pins with stainless after all. Thanks again!!!

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Marty
1984 Hobie 16 Redline Yellow Nationals, "Yellow Fever"
Opelika, Al / Lake Martin
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You can get 3/8" aluminum rod at Home Depot then cut and drill your own. Very quick and easy with a vise, hack saw and hand drill.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-3-8-in-x-48-in-Aluminum-Round-Rod-800367/204604768

Don't forget to pick up new cotter pins as well.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/The-Hillman-Group-3-32-in-x-3-4-in-Stainless-Steel-Cotter-Pin-35-Pack-43693/204786168

Note that the aluminum pins are more forgiving than SS pins in a crash and act sacrificially. Further, being softer than the SS gudgeons, the gudgeons will wear slower as well as your rudder castings.

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Hobie 16 (3 formerly)
MacGregor 25 (formerly)
Chrysler Dagger 14 (formerly)
NACRA 5.0 (currently)
High Point, NC
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Thank you all for your help. Very useful information on here. Thanks so much, now, gotta get those rudders back on the boat and go sailing, if only the weather would agree. I've been off all week and it has rained nearly every day. Ready to get this boat in the water!

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Marty
1984 Hobie 16 Redline Yellow Nationals, "Yellow Fever"
Opelika, Al / Lake Martin
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I would definitely not recommend using aluminum rod from Home Depot. It is most likely cheap, architectural grade alloy. I personally don't recommend using anything other than stainless steel for rudder pins (except maybe if you're surf sailing, end even then it's a big maybe). Sailing the boat with a broken rudder pin is no easy task. Anyway, if you plan to use aluminum, I would use either 6061-T6 or 7075-T7351 alloy pins as they will be much stronger than what you get from Home depot.

sm

I have used hardware store aluminum rods on my catamarans since first replacing the plastic ones on my Hobie 14 back in 1970. "Hey Mon, no problems. Like too much brains used for such simple problems."

GilleyNM

I have used hardware store aluminum rods on my catamarans since first replacing the plastic ones on my Hobie 14 back in 1970. "Hey Mon, no problems."

My experience as well.

BTW martyr sorry to hear about the closing of the War Eagle Supper Club in 2015. It was on my short list of coolest places of all time.

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Hobie 16 (3 formerly)
MacGregor 25 (formerly)
Chrysler Dagger 14 (formerly)
NACRA 5.0 (currently)
High Point, NC
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leeboweffect

GilleyNM

I have used hardware store aluminum rods on my catamarans since first replacing the plastic ones on my Hobie 14 back in 1970. "Hey Mon, no problems."

My experience as well.

BTW martyr sorry to hear about the closing of the War Eagle Supper Club in 2015. It was on my short list of coolest places of all time.

Yes that is sad that it closed. It was definitely a local landmark.

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Marty
1984 Hobie 16 Redline Yellow Nationals, "Yellow Fever"
Opelika, Al / Lake Martin
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Good news!!! I thank you all for the tips, advice, and direction with this project. I was able to punch the little broken cotter pin out of the hinge pin after I soaked it in some PB Blaster, it popped right out. I just got this boat exactly one week ago and I am still going through a box that has all the traps, harnesses, and manuals and other goodies. There is a zippered bag thing that has extra parts in it and I have found that it is the bag that is sold through Murray's, in fact, the bag has Murray's on it, anyway, it sells for 90 bucks and includes lots of little extra stuff, including cotter pins and, you guessed it, hinge pins!!! The previous owner was very meticulous with this boat and it really shows with all the extra stuff this thing has. Very fortunate to have found this forum as well, thank you for all the help and support. I am going to post another question separate from this topic, maybe y'all can help with that one.
Thanks again

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Marty
1984 Hobie 16 Redline Yellow Nationals, "Yellow Fever"
Opelika, Al / Lake Martin
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This depends on the amount of travel and "bounce"
short trips to the beach are no big deal

long trips or on bouncy roads are a different creature.

vibrations and especially hard bouncing will put some wear and stress on your attachment points.
I personally take my rudders off every time I go to the beach or come home.
my rudders are new, expensive and none of the pivot points are wormed out from wear.. I plan to keep them this way. My pin is bent on the top (no cotter pin nor ring ding needed) and only has 1 ring-ding needed to put on/take off. so easy a caveman can do it.

Quote

I wouldn't worry about taking rudders off for transport, not really many benefits and adds to setup time.

GilleyNM

Like too much brains used for such simple problems."

Perhaps, but I'd rather use some brains and take the time to think about what the correct material is to use for the application rather than having to think about how to get my boat back to shore after busting a rudder pin or how to come up with the hundreds of bucks needed to replace a rudder system because I cheeped out and used a piece of junk rod from Home Depot for my rudder pin.

I know too many people who have broken rudder pins and struggled to get back home- none of them were using stainless.

sm

Dogboy

I would definitely not recommend using aluminum rod from Home Depot.

I would be careful where I got my parts from
Home Depot and other box stores carry the cheapest, Chinese made products available
Modern "crap" metal is all over the place - china is the main source
these metals will rust, seize and fail much faster than higher quality stuff

http://www.practicalmachi…aluminum-sources-301732/

MN3

This depends on the amount of travel and "bounce"
short trips to the beach are no big deal

long trips or on bouncy roads are a different creature.

vibrations and especially hard bouncing will put some wear and stress on your attachment points.
I personally take my rudders off every time I go to the beach or come home.
my rudders are new, expensive and none of the pivot points are wormed out from wear.. I plan to keep them this way. My pin is bent on the top (no cotter pin nor ring ding needed) and only has 1 ring-ding needed to put on/take off. so easy a caveman can do it.

x2, though I've been using hairpin cotter pins on the bottom, but maybe I should switch to ringdings. Small inland lake sailing though.

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Matt Miller in Colorado
'82 H14 Turbo #38674 Red/Gold
'85 H18 #13222 Nationals White (Prism)
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MN3

I personally take my rudders off every time I go to the beach or come home.
my rudders are new, expensive and none of the pivot points are wormed out from wear.. I plan to keep them this way.

Agreed.
I hate sloppy rudders. I have plastic, spring loaded zero-clearance bushings at all pivot points on my rudder system, and it is still as tight as when I put them on 30 years ago. Mostly because I always taken the rudders off, even on trips to local lakes. I have at least 20K miles of towing the cat, and the damage from not removing the rudder system would be unthinkable.
Aluminum pintle rods may seem to be sacrificial, but if you hit something hard enough to bend the aluminum, your transoms will need repairing too.

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Sheet In!
Bob
_/)_____/)_/)____/)____/)_____/)/)__________/)__
Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
AZ Multihull Fleet 42 member
(Way) Past Commodore of Prindle Fleet 14
Arizona, USA
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Exactly my thinking. The rudders on my boat are in great shape and I don't want to take any chances of them getting knocked around while traveling to the lake, 30 minutes away, or to the beach, 4 hours away. The previous owner said he never removed the rudders and even hauled the boat 7 hours to the beach once a year. Thankfully, he did use extra care securing the rudder system with lots of bungee cords each time he moved the boat anywhere. I just feel better removing them for travels.

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Marty
1984 Hobie 16 Redline Yellow Nationals, "Yellow Fever"
Opelika, Al / Lake Martin
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Quote

have plastic, spring loaded zero-clearance bushings at all pivot points on my rudder system

what is a spring loaded zero-clearance bushing?
any pics?

martyr: A little late to the party here, but FWIW I've been using homemade Al pins from HD for 20 years, and never had a problem. The only pins I've broken were fiberglass of unknown age. Thought it would be a good idea in the surf, but the one busted a half mile offshore in the Gulf in mildish conditions. Thank goodness the other didn't break! I travel with the rudders off, too.....just make sure they're oriented properly when you put 'em back on!

If you're ever over here toward central MS, give me a shout.....I'm in the book.

Any plans to take your boat to the Gulf? (We do a lot of racing out of Ocean Springs MS.)



Edited by rattlenhum on Jul 15, 2016 - 12:03 PM.

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Jerome Vaughan
Hobie 16
Clinton, Mississippi
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I think the take away regarding using material from Home Depot should be that all aluminum is not created equally and when you buy a piece of round stock from HD, you have no idea what you are purchasing. If you want to make your own pins, that's fine, but at least buy stock from a reputable supplier where you know what grade of aluminum you're purchasing (like 6061-T6). The stuff from HD is almost certainly the cheapest, lowest grade architectural alloy you can buy and stuff bought 20 years ago has absolutely no bearing on what they sell today.

Regarding removing the rudders, it is really a personal preference thing IMO. On my H18, I have left the rudders on for trailering for the past 30 years and not had an issue. Yes, the rudders do occasionally require maintenance, but that will be required whether you remove them or not. The rudders are moving parts operating in a salty, sandy, corrosive and high-load environment - they will need servicing from time to time. I strap them down solidly (using tie-down belts, not bungee) and they don't move. The trailering loads are much less than the sailing loads.

sm

+1

Quote

I think the take away regarding using material from Home Depot should be that all aluminum is not created equally and when you buy a piece of round stock from HD, you have no idea what you are purchasing

+1

Quote

stuff bought 20 years ago has absolutely no bearing on what they sell today.

+1

Quote

t is really a personal preference thing IMO

Quote

The trailering loads are much less than the sailing loads.

maybe but i (personally) want to reduce wear anywhere i can
ymmv

Jerome, to answer your question. I get down to Destin once or twice a year and would definitely be sailing in the bay and gulf. Will be sailing in Lake Martin primarily. My family has a place on the lake with good open water. There are several other lakes in my area that I plan on trying out also.

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Marty
1984 Hobie 16 Redline Yellow Nationals, "Yellow Fever"
Opelika, Al / Lake Martin
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I think if you have a nice no slop upgraded rudder system, taking it off makes sense. I think for the original poster who has an early 80's H16 trying to get back on the water, it is just an added headache, the fewer things you have to do at the ramp or the beach, the better. I say get it down to just mast up, sails up and go. I will say you need a good system to secure it though, very easy to bend tiller crossbars ect.

Original poster here. Lol. Understand that this boat is a 1984 model but it has been used very sparingly and is in very new condition, just wanting to keep her that way for sure.
Here's another option, what about just removing the rudder blades instead of the whole system. That would make for faster set up.

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Marty
1984 Hobie 16 Redline Yellow Nationals, "Yellow Fever"
Opelika, Al / Lake Martin
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martyr

Here's another option, what about just removing the rudder blades instead of the whole system. That would make for faster set up.

Pulling the two rudder pins to remove the whole assembly is pretty easy, but I'll admit that wrestling and storing the whole thing for travel can be daunting. I should probably clarify that, when I'm trailering my daughter's older H14T the ~20 miles to/from our club, I don't remove the rudders, but would for long distance. On my newer H16 with the H20 style tiller connectors, it's so easy to remove/store the assembly that I do it every time. I hope you understood my comment about the orientation above....it is possible to put the assembly back on backwards, resulting in serious toe-out.

P.S. Check your PMs....I sent you some other info that may help you get where you want to be with your new toy!

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Jerome Vaughan
Hobie 16
Clinton, Mississippi
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