I went out for a couple hours yesterday, & while 15 miles from home, got into a weed bed. I popped the rudder to clear them, managed to drop it a bit & hit the cam, popping it into the "down" position. ARRGGHHH.
I tried looping a line around it & yanking, no joy. Tried wrapping a line around the tiller bar to pry, no joy.
It's a real pain sailing with one in trail, so I set it in the "up" position, & continued on one. That would have been a real pain if the wind had been more than 10mph.
I have had a rudder drop out of the "up" position at the dock, banging the cam down, which results in going for a screwdriver to pry it up.
I'm thinking of making some sort of tool that fits over the cam, something small that can stay in one of the tramp pockets.
Others must have experienced this too...what do you guys do to reset on the water?

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

Adjust the spring so that cam works fairly easily, then use the loop of rope around it & jerk briskly. Pete

I took it all apart, cleaned & greased, nothing seems worn.
I did up the springs a little tighter, as the rudders were kicking up at speed.
There is no way I can jerk them up with the mainsheet around the lobe of the cam.
Maybe I'll try to back the springs off a bit.
It happened again today, really getting annoying.

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

Check out the latest Hobie Hotline for a nice solution for dealing with cams on the H18 rudder system.

The other option is to use a large flat blade screw driver between the plunger and the cam to pop the cam back up. Or run the spring tension low and use bungee cords around the rudders to help hold the rudders down. Some guys even trim off the tip of the cam itself and leave the cam locked down all the time.

sm

Buy one of those tools that releases the cam....you will need to drill a small / shallow hole on that flat spot on the cam to use the tool............

--
Bill 404 21SE
--

This is hilarious. I am helping rebuild a 1976 hobie 14 and had the exact same problem last weekend. I have the spring tension backed way of and still can't get them unlocked if they lock down without a screwdriver. I have some new cams coming in the mail and am hoping that will help. Wondering if the spring is a replacement and is too stiff.

And people bitch about the pivmatic system. They are hokey but they work.

--
Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
--

Even Prindle rudders are not sacrosanct. Mine kick up ocassionally in heavy air and are impossible to lock down at speed on a reach. So now I've drilled a 1/4" hole in rudder just in front of aft arch of casting. Will pin with 1/4" bolt after rudder lock down. If I hit a whale in Ventura next week, probably loose the transom. Pete

Sometimes I wish this site had a like button. :)

--
Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
--

Making sure the system is properly adjusted and lubricated is also critical for getting the system to function properly. You need to make sure the rake adjustment plate in the upper casting seats tightly against the cam when the rudders are locked down. If there is slop, the plate can slip past the cam allowing the rudders to kick up without rotating the cam. It's also good to grease (not spray lube, grease) the surfaces of the cam which contact the plunger.

sm

Quote

The other option is to use a large flat blade screw driver between the plunger and the cam to pop the cam back up

Yes, that's what I ended up doing. No matter how hard I yanked, I couldn't do the rope trick...maybe I'm a weakling...but I weigh more than 98lbs!

Quote

Buy one of those tools that releases the cam...

Bill, is this what you mean? I understand using the flat blade, but not sure about where to drill a hole, anybody got a photo?
http://shop.foghmarine.co…ie-all-purpose-tool.html

Quote

Check out the latest Hobie Hotline for a nice solution for dealing with cams on the H18 rudder system.

I'll do that, thanks

Quote

You need to make sure the rake adjustment plate in the upper casting seats tightly against the cam when the rudders are locked down

Yes, I found that info on a Hobie sheet, here. When I got the boat, neither would lock down. Took a thin wall 1/4" drive socket to fit inside the casting, but I got them both to work fine, except kicking up when I got some weeds. I tightened the spring, worked good. Just the last day or so I've had problems with the port rudder only. I'll check that little plate again tomorrow. I'll regrease the cam & plunger..
https://www.hobiecat.com/…ticles/rudder-tuning,87/

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

A flat head screw driver is usually does a good job.

Quote

A flat head screw driver is usually does a good job.

Yes, that's what I've been resorting to.
I'm looking for a cure, carrying around a large screwdriver to reset them while sailing is a PITA, to put it mildly.
At first, I thought these hobie rudders were great, now I'm longing for my Nacra's. If they pop, it's a 2 second reset, with no tools required.

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

The screwdriver will eventually chew up the cam & plunger.

Again, check the Summer 2016 Hotline This Old Hobie article. It's a simple mod that allows you to manually reset a stuck cam with no tools.

sm

Quote

Bill, is this what you mean? I understand using the flat blade, but not sure about where to drill a hole, anybody got a photo?
http://shop.foghmarine.co…ie-all-purpose-tool.html

That's the tool. As Dogboy wrote, use of the tool (and a mod that makes the tool unnecessary) is detailed with pix in the Summer 2016 Hotline, but I think only HCANA members can access the current issue. I have no pix, but to use the tool you drill a 1/8" dia. hole in middle of the flat part on the upper back of the cam (just above where you'd pry using the screwdriver method). Then you stick the can opener looking hook (on the left of the tool in the image you linked) in the hole to pry the cam up and forward.

My experience is with the H16, so YMMV but all of Dogboys advice is spot on. When everything is unworn, cleaned, adjusted, and lubed (between cam and plunger) properly, it's nigh impossible for the cam to improperly lock. When it's not on the other hand, the mainsheet tug method and the tool method probably won't work to unlock them. I would also add that, when unlocking by lifting the crossbar, it's important to apply some forward tension to keep the rake adjustment plate in the upper casting (pin on older models) engaged with the cam. Similarly, as Dogboy wrote, the plate needs to be as far forward as possible on rake adjustable upper castings. If you don't have rake adjustable upper castings (and maybe even if you do), it's entirely possible that the rudder bolt holes were drilled improperly to begin with.

(Rant On) Many Brand X owners seem to think that Brand Y's rudder system is crap, whereas most problems (regardless of the system brand) are actually due to not understanding how the system works, worn/bent components (common on 30+ year old boats), improper adjustment/lubrication, and/or hack jobs by the previous owners. (Rant Off)

Hope this helps some!

--
Jerome Vaughan
Hobie 16
Clinton, Mississippi
--

1st...Kudos to Dogboy. he always gives good advice, without denigrating noobs, or any superior attitude. I'm sure he would kick my asz in any racing event. I value his posts. Same for P. Begle, & several others, you know who you are.

Quote

The screwdriver will eventually chew up the cam & plunger.
Again, check the Summer 2016 Hotline This Old Hobie article

I'm seeing that very quickly, re screwdriver chewing plunger. As for the Old Hobe article, I can only find the winter 2015 online. I don't want to ask someone for an issue that is subscription only at this time, I'll find it this winter.

Quote

I would also add that, when unlocking by lifting the crossbar, it's important to apply some forward tension to keep the rake adjustment plate in the upper casting (pin on older models) engaged with the cam. Similarly, as Dogboy wrote, the plate needs to be as far forward as possible on rake adjustable upper castings

+1 I ran through about 20 cycles, with the Cat on the Seadoo lift today. I immediately realized, that under sail, I did not pull the tiller forward when manually popping the rudder to dump weeds.
As Dogboy said, I noticed the plate was about 1mm from full detent. Not much, but when I adjusted it, everything is back to normal.
I have 26 days on the H18 this summer, (OK, kick me in the ass), I had not applied any new grease to the fittings. I re-greased the cam/plunger/plate, & it works slick. I can see the plunger move easily up/down as I lift the tiller bar...I'll be more proactive at greasing...promise.
I'm not sure if my springs are weak, I have them cranked down til within 1/8" flush from the casting. I don't have a scale to measure the force required to pop them, but it is an easy pull with my hand.
Bil404/Jerome...I'll get that tool, it's only about $6USD, & might be useful for other things on the H18. I can tie it to a thin line with float, & store in the bag I use for the radio & GPS. I sail on a 400 sq mi lake, only saw 1 other boat today.

RANT- yeah, OK, you are right. The Nacra rudders are no better,(well, really they are, in a couple of ways ).
I admit, I like these, when they work, & if I keep them greased/adjusted, they should work most of the time.
Thanks for all the help people.

One final question...how much "play" should there be within those spring things that connect the tiller to the X bar?
I put bushings in the rudder pins, very tight system now, almost no slack, but I noticed the "spring" connection can wobble. How much should i snug the nuts up?

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

Update:
A Good Samaritan emailed me the page showing the "Fix", use of the tool, & how to attach a pull cord to the plunger.
The article states to drill out the cam pivot pin, remove the cam, then push the plunger UP through the casting.
Am I missing something?
When I cleaned & greased it, I simply removed the large nylon tension screw from the lower casting. That allowed the spring,(with the plunger inside the spring to drop out the bottom. I can't see any reason to remove the actual cam.

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

Maybe variations in the castings or plungers. On mine, the plunger has to be removed from the top by removing the cam. If you can get it out through the bottom, then you're right, no need to remove the cam.

Another thought is perhaps someone installed a H16 plunger in your casting. The 16 plunger is a cylindrical profile with a hemispherical tip. The 18 plunger is a square profile with a full radius (half round) tip. The 16 plunger could probably be installed from the bottom.

sm

Edchris177

I can't see any reason to remove the actual cam.

I read back through this and I'm not sure which rudder system you are dealing with.

Is it the Hobie 18? If so is it the old style metal cams (pre-1987) or the new castings that use the replaceable plastic cams?

--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

How To Create Your Signature

How To Create Your Own Cool Avatar

How To Display Pictures In The Forums.
--

1984 H18 magnum.
The rudders were upgraded to the new system with EPO blades. It has plastic cams, & definitely the new style castings, using the adjustable aluminum plate in the upper casting.




Edited by Edchris177 on Aug 13, 2016 - 08:03 PM.

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

Edchris177

1984 H18 magnum.
The rudders were upgraded to the new system with EPO blades. It has plastic cams, & definitely the new style castings, using the adjustable aluminum plate in the upper casting.

OK, so you really shouldn't be having any trouble, that system does work as advertised if everything is "factory" fresh and lubed.

At this point your cams are probably buggered up, maybe something wrong with the cap/spring/screw in the castings. You've already cleaned and lubed so something aint right.

Here's what I'd do, (did) to get things right.

Remove everything from the casting including cams (carefully drill out the pin so as not to damage the casting), plunger, spring, and plastic screw.

Throw it all away.

Clean the castings, especially the internal screw threads, with acetone and a brush to remove everything that's not aluminum.

Run a tap through the threads to make sure they are clean and smooth. This was not done at the factory so most casting threads were bad to start with.

As you install all new plunger, spring, screw lube each piece with clean white lithium grease.

Install new cam kit with the provided sister screws. Lube the cams with the lithium.

It really is just a matter of making things really right, my rudders come up easily with the tiller bar and lock down solidly with a thump. If the cam gets turned the wrong way I can easily flip it back into position with the mainsheet.

Note: Doesn't apply to you but if anyone a big problem getting the delrin screw out (common problem) I found that it is quite flammable had one that got so carved up I couldn't get it to turn so laid the casting in a safe place and put a flame to the plastic, it caught fire and melted out, then ran a tap through to clean up the mess.

--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

How To Create Your Signature

How To Create Your Own Cool Avatar

How To Display Pictures In The Forums.
--

I personally have always used the large flat screwdriver (if you do it this way dedicate a tool and file/grind off all sharp edges and corners) method and/or cat key end with no problems. Here's the Hobie way:

http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=467

--
Hobie 16 (3 formerly)
MacGregor 25 (formerly)
Chrysler Dagger 14 (formerly)
NACRA 5.0 (currently)
High Point, NC
--

Quote

I personally have always used the large flat screwdriver

This is what I've done so far, but it's a poor solution. I don't want a large screwdriver in my tramp bag. I want these things to be problem free, & if (not if, when), the cam gets banged down, to able to fix it, in 6' seas, without tools.K

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

Add the lanyard to the plunger and you will never need a tool to reset your cams again. Then inspect, adjust, and lube everything so it works smoothly. The first time your cam gets stuck down, use the lanyard to reset it. At that point you know it's getting to be time to service the rudders. Lube 'em back up, check your adjustments, replace the cam if needed - all there is to it.

sm

Yes, I intend to implement the lanyard method. It happens at the most inconvenient times, tool less is best.
I think I'll take Damon's advice & change some parts, but I don't dare throw them away, not just yet. Our Hobie dealer only gets parts (from the USA) every few weeks. I want to keep it on the water for the next month or two.
Your suggestion that an H16 plunger might have been used could be correct. It came out the bottom, but I didn't pay much attention to the shape. After relubing it again works smoothly, it seems like every 15-20 sailing days between grease.

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--