Curiosity...Has anyone every used a product called Slick Bottom on their Beachcats? I was talking to an airboat guy last night that swears it would improve the durability of the bottom of my Cat while beaching it over and over again here in Daytona Beach. He also believes it may actually make the boat faster as well. Thoughts?

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Pete
2001 NACRA 450 SOLD
2000 NACRA 500 TOTAL LOSS
2004 NACRA INTER 20 SOLD
2016 NACRA 500 Sport
DeLand, FL
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never heard of anyone using anything like this

I have seen 1 local using a "secret" product on his hulls pre - race

It was obvious to me what it was (rain-x) - i have never seen or heard of anyone else doing this

I have raced small outboard powered hydroplanes and runabouts since 1974 (American Powerboat Racing Association - Stock Outboard) and used every product imaginable to get an extra half mile per hour.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGH0It94ZVQ

I have actual telemetry data proving Rain-X actually slows you down. Something about the beading action increasing drag.

The only product or coating I have used that actually had a measurable effect was powdered graphite. I vigorously rubbed it into the finished bottom of fiberglass boats and never clear coated. I re-applied several times a season as soon as the fiberglass was visible.

It is a messy job.

BW

I am not a fan of using toxic products on my boat -

I like to eat fish from the gulf - prefer no graphite/rain-x/other products on/in my fish

I use and highly recommend Starbrite Premium Marine Polish with PTEF. Starbrite also makes the Attwood Premium Marine Polish which is often available for a reasonable price at some big box stores that start with W, and these are identical products (poured side by side out of the same can).

I don't know if the PTEF does anything for speed, but I can attest that this product stays on your fiberglass hull longer and protects against any sort of growth/discoloration. The best thing to do to keep your bottom smooth is to NOT run it up on the beach.

Not running it up on the beach in Daytona is almost impossible to accomplish. So I am trying to find a product to help with durability not speed. Any Suggestions?

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Pete
2001 NACRA 450 SOLD
2000 NACRA 500 TOTAL LOSS
2004 NACRA INTER 20 SOLD
2016 NACRA 500 Sport
DeLand, FL
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So I am trying to find a product to help with durability not speed.

beach wheels
and foam hull cradles (or just get foam noodles and put lines through them)

There is no reason to touch the sand if you don't want to

Hey Andrew... The very gradual grade/slope of the beach in Daytona as well as the multiple sand bars while going through the surf in Daytona makes it near impossible to stop the boat until you have already beached it. Half the time you are surfing a wave right up to the shore where there are many people in the water and you just have to pick a line...blow a whistle and ride it straight into the shore.

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Pete
2001 NACRA 450 SOLD
2000 NACRA 500 TOTAL LOSS
2004 NACRA INTER 20 SOLD
2016 NACRA 500 Sport
DeLand, FL
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Hi Pete,

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The very gradual grade/slope of the beach in Daytona as well as the multiple sand bars while going through the surf in Daytona makes it near impossible to stop the boat until you have already beached it

sounds very dangerous to people and property

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Half the time you are surfing a wave right up to the shore where there are many people in the water and you just have to pick a line...blow a whistle and ride it straight into the shore.

That sounds incredibly unsafe (for swimmers whom have right of way), and poor seamanship

(IMHO) you should NEVER barrel (surf) into a crowded beach. what if there are swimmers underwater? what if someone doesn't see you/hear you (due to water in their eyes / ears)?
what if your rudders pop (which they will at some point) and a wave or wind turns your boat and you go barreling in an unexpected direction?

We have crowds, and swimmers all around our area too
we don't have crazy surf like on the atlantic or pacific
I wouldn't sail in those conditions - and or if i did ...

I would anchor outside of the surf if possible, and go get beach wheels
if not possible, i would sail elsewhere, or go play mini golf - ymmv

PS i understand the desire to sail - all the time and everywhere but... pick your battles wisely
a fun weekend sailing on vacation isn't worth it if you end up hurting someone

Ok I respect your opinion...Now do you have any recommendations to protect the bottom of the Cat since that was the topic of this post?

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Pete
2001 NACRA 450 SOLD
2000 NACRA 500 TOTAL LOSS
2004 NACRA INTER 20 SOLD
2016 NACRA 500 Sport
DeLand, FL
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Now do you have any recommendations to protect the bottom of the Cat since that was the topic of this post?

sure
that product you mention (and it's competitors) is an epoxy
so if you add a layer of epoxy (that brand or any)... you can protect your gelcoat

OR add some "sacrificial" gel-coat - we have guys around here that add some extra layers on their g-cats

OR if you want real protection - add a layer of kevlar tape over your hulls with epoxy and or thickened gel coat -
in the future, when/if you see the kevlar, you need more sacrificial material


when i think of beaching a cat in surf - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPX3wePeKX4

Ok...Thanks. That video is crazy. Daytona is nothing like that lol. I actual won't go out if waves are more than 1 to 2'. Our problem with anchoring out past the surf is the 2 Sand Bars. There is 2 sets of breaks and if you tried to Anchor off shore and "get beach wheels" depending on the tide you would have to anchor some 200 yards off shore. It goes from 5-10' deep to 3' deep then back to 5-6' deep and then back to 2' deep (last set of break) and then boom you are on shore. It can be hairy at times when beaches are packed (yesterday). But for the most part we sail in an area that isn't always crowded with people. The breeze is usually blowing out of the SE so it's a reach to the shore and very difficult in the surf to point the bows up and slow down before running up onto the sand. I do usually uncleat everything and try to jump off before doing to much damage. It's just inevitable where we sail that you are gonna wear out the bottom of the cat. Other than a few lakes in the area..(not always the best sailing) we really don't have too many options. The Halifax River is a Joke. So many low spots, Murky water and Oyster Beds everywhere. Beach is best option. Plus they we can leave the Cats mast up on the beach at no charge.

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Pete
2001 NACRA 450 SOLD
2000 NACRA 500 TOTAL LOSS
2004 NACRA INTER 20 SOLD
2016 NACRA 500 Sport
DeLand, FL
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I have an older 5.7 and have had to build-up the hulls several times over the years. Beach wheels are essential, but in your case I think adding a layer or two of gel coat at the end of the season could keep you going for a long time. In my most recent repair, I used Kevlar with epoxy and a catalyzd Interlux Perfection paint finish. The paint lasts at least a season, and is easy to re-apply new layers to just the bottom since it has very good levling properties. That keeps me out of the fiber and hull structure. As you say, the wear is unavoidable if you are on and off a beach.





Edited by tominpa on Jul 06, 2017 - 12:09 AM.

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Tom
NACRA 5.7 (1984 Sail 181)
Pennsylvania
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It's just inevitable where we sail that you are gonna wear out the bottom of the cat.

I mistakenly thought DeLand was in the pan handle and thought you were on vacation in Daytona.

MN3, your rant is appreciated but dutifully ignored. Saltlife77's approach is commonplace around the country for beach launching and landing catamarans, or it used to be before the nanny state took over. The trouble is the newer boats aren't really setup for it, IMO the H16's are probably the best boats for this duty as they have a lot of material right where you want it.

Anyway, kevlar is certainly a good choice for an abrasion resistant bottom but its rather painful to work with and coatings don't like to adhere to it all that well. Another option is a PTFE tape backed with 3M's very high bond adhesive. This may actually be too sticky, but will certainly protect your hull bottom: https://www.mcmaster.com/#ptfe-tape/=18dni0m

-Sam

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MN3, your rant is appreciated but dutifully ignored.

it's ok - I try to always be aware of "worst case" and then decide if my skills counterbalance the risks

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IMO the H16's are probably the best boats for this duty as they have a lot of material right where you want it.

you may snap off a plastic rudder but those castings were pretty robust too



Edited by MN3 on Jul 06, 2017 - 09:02 AM.

I do use beach wheels as soon as I hit the beach and don't do any extra dragging of the boat up the beach it's the beaching into shore that damages the hulls. Especially given the skeg design on the 450. I sit on the stern of the tramp as I am in the shore surf. That happens to be the lowest point of the skeg so it gets the most wear and tear.

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Pete
2001 NACRA 450 SOLD
2000 NACRA 500 TOTAL LOSS
2004 NACRA INTER 20 SOLD
2016 NACRA 500 Sport
DeLand, FL
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I think a little teflon tape on the skeg will go a long way for $100.

MN3, I hear ya on the crowds etc. Every year they get worse and I won't be surprised if we see swimmers out in the water with their iphone 7's completely distracted and reports of cellphone carrying beach goers taken out to see in strong ripcurrents as they twitter away blissfully unaware of the dangerous mother nature can provide. All of this makes using beach catamarans as actual beach catamarans more and more dangerous. Certainly best to stop and get beach wheels if you can. In 1-2' surf if you have a helper it can be done, but often it is best for man and machine to get out of the surf line ASAP which means a beach landing.

I agree with saltlife when it comes beaching on the Central Florida East Coast with sand bars and waves. You just have to pick a spot and come in. The whistle is your best defense from hitting people. I have had the crew jump in the water and hold on to the back cross bar to slow the boat down, and your still coming in at 5-6mph with people in front of you. Your coming in and a four foot wave face drives you across a sand bar your rudders get kicked up. No need to attempt to lock the rudders down again because your being pushed in by the surf to the next sandbar. Trying to hold the cat in two feet of water as someone runs for the beach wheels is hard to do if not impossible with the wind and surf.

--
Prindle 18 w/ wings, Prindle 16, Prindle 15, current
Hobie 16 in rebuild
2 Hobie 18 past
NACRA 5.2 past

Saint Cloud, Florida
member Lake Eustis Sail Club
http://www.lakeeustissailingclub.org
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I agree with saltlife when it comes beaching on the Central Florida East Coast with sand bars and waves. You just have to pick a spot and come in. The whistle is your best defense from hitting people. I have had the crew jump in the water and hold on to the back cross bar to slow the boat down, and your still coming in at 5-6mph with people in front of you. Your coming in and a four foot wave face drives you across a sand bar your rudders get kicked up. No need to attempt to lock the rudders down again because your being pushed in by the surf to the next sandbar. Trying to hold the cat in two feet of water as someone runs for the beach wheels is hard to do if not impossible with the wind and surf.

not my kinda sailing -
Is it (the surf) different in delray? I have walked past the mast up storage many times and i know they had a race recently.



Edited by MN3 on Jul 06, 2017 - 12:24 PM.

No this is a Central Fl issue. Delray is in S. Florida. I am from S. Florida, Jupiter in fact. The Gulf Stream comes closest to FL in S. Florida and they have a much quicker drop off to deeper water than we do in Central FL. One reason you can Drive on Daytona is because the grade/slope is so gradual in Central Fl. For instance if you are deep sea fishing in S. Florida you only have to go about 2 miles out for good fishing. In Daytona you have to go 20 miles off shore for good fishing.

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Pete
2001 NACRA 450 SOLD
2000 NACRA 500 TOTAL LOSS
2004 NACRA INTER 20 SOLD
2016 NACRA 500 Sport
DeLand, FL
--

We also had an Ocean regatta here in Daytona recently. We have 2 per year, 1 buoy and 1 distance regatta.

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Pete
2001 NACRA 450 SOLD
2000 NACRA 500 TOTAL LOSS
2004 NACRA INTER 20 SOLD
2016 NACRA 500 Sport
DeLand, FL
--

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The Gulf Stream comes closest to FL in S. Florida and they have a much quicker drop off to deeper water than we do in Central FL.

gotcha!

Because of water depth S Fl gets much more of just a shore break under normal conditions. In Daytona we have 2 sometimes 3 areas where waves break.

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Pete
2001 NACRA 450 SOLD
2000 NACRA 500 TOTAL LOSS
2004 NACRA INTER 20 SOLD
2016 NACRA 500 Sport
DeLand, FL
--

The fun begins with a on shore breeze, blowing 10mph, and the waves want to turn your boat sideways, and every time you try to head up to hit the wave head on you take all the air out of your sail. You are afraid to lock your rudders down because the waves can drive you backwards into the sandbar. But once you are past the surf you let your heart calm down and have a great time.

--
Prindle 18 w/ wings, Prindle 16, Prindle 15, current
Hobie 16 in rebuild
2 Hobie 18 past
NACRA 5.2 past

Saint Cloud, Florida
member Lake Eustis Sail Club
http://www.lakeeustissailingclub.org
--

Boats finishing the Florida 300 this year at Daytona Beach.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JllbAIibUoE&list

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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

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And the video Damon shows is a calm day...Look at the flag. Barley moving. In most of the other videos I saw posted from the 300 up and down the FL east coast they all had to ride their cat right up onto the beach. These guys are struggling with a very light breeze out of the west making it near impossible to sail right up to the beach.

--
Pete
2001 NACRA 450 SOLD
2000 NACRA 500 TOTAL LOSS
2004 NACRA INTER 20 SOLD
2016 NACRA 500 Sport
DeLand, FL
--

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most of the other videos I saw posted from the 300 up and down the FL east coast they all had to ride their cat right up onto the beach.

It hurts my heart to see those beautiful cats driven up the sand

Side note: it is a different creature and much safer during a race when you have ground crew teams to help handle the cats, and race officials keeping the public out of harms way

Very True MN3.

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Pete
2001 NACRA 450 SOLD
2000 NACRA 500 TOTAL LOSS
2004 NACRA INTER 20 SOLD
2016 NACRA 500 Sport
DeLand, FL
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saltlife77

And the video Damon shows is a calm day...Look at the flag. Barley moving. In most of the other videos I saw posted from the 300 up and down the FL east coast they all had to ride their cat right up onto the beach. These guys are struggling with a very light breeze out of the west making it near impossible to sail right up to the beach.

True, that day was very unusual, the four boats finishing had raced over seven hours in huge conditions, not seen each other all day, then finished in a group.

The shallow multiple sand bars and current made it really difficult for them to choose the right angle to get across the finish line.

Here's a more typical landing with an onshore wind and low surf.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZfKYtYbHSE&index

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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

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Here's a more typical landing with an onshore wind and low surf.

I cry a little every time i see that lol



Edited by MN3 on Jul 07, 2017 - 01:44 PM.

And that video is down in Palm Beach County if I am not mistaken. Look at the difference where the waves break. In Daytona even under calm conditions it's an offshore break. In S FL its a shore break only.

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Pete
2001 NACRA 450 SOLD
2000 NACRA 500 TOTAL LOSS
2004 NACRA INTER 20 SOLD
2016 NACRA 500 Sport
DeLand, FL
--

Damon, Do you have an recommendations for protecting my skeg designed cat when beaching?

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Pete
2001 NACRA 450 SOLD
2000 NACRA 500 TOTAL LOSS
2004 NACRA INTER 20 SOLD
2016 NACRA 500 Sport
DeLand, FL
--

saltlife77

Damon, Do you have an recommendations for protecting my skeg designed cat when beaching?

I think all the possibilities have been mentioned, my own choice on this has always been to just use the boats as intended and then periodically do a "bottom job" to restore the gelcoat. Don't wait until it's worn down to bare fiberglass or you have a much bigger job to do.

In the earlier days of beachcat sailing there were some products out there to add strips of metal or plastic to the bottom of a Hobie 16, one of the many products introduced during the peak of beachcat sailing that just seemed like it would cause more problems than it fixes.

Sounds like you are already doing everything you can by getting it onto beach wheels as soon as you can reasonably do it. Your original question was about Slick Bottom like air boats use, I can't see that helping at all since the surface area in contact with the sand is so small, those type chemical products are designed for large flat bottoms to more easily slide over mud and grass. http://www.gatorglide.com/

But I could be wrong, so try it out and report back!

I guess the real answer to your original post is "No, no one has tried Slick Bottom on their beachcat".

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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

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