Some sailing action from last Sunday. A great day for sailing and hanging out with friends. Enjoy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gx3ucvEV7pI

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Hobie 16 (3 formerly)
MacGregor 25 (formerly)
Chrysler Dagger 14 (formerly)
NACRA 5.0 (currently)
High Point, NC
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Nice video NacDaddy. I liked the that the camera did not tilt when the hulls lifted. I want to go play now.

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Prindle 18 w/ wings, Prindle 16, Prindle 15, current
Hobie 16 in rebuild
2 Hobie 18 past
NACRA 5.2 past

Saint Cloud, Florida
member Lake Eustis Sail Club
http://www.lakeeustissailingclub.org
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FloridaRoadie

I want to go play now.

Do it and post your videos so we can all learn something from them. When I got the camera a couple of months ago I thought it would all be for fun, but I've seen and learned things from it that I would have never known about how my boat works without it!

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Hobie 16 (3 formerly)
MacGregor 25 (formerly)
Chrysler Dagger 14 (formerly)
NACRA 5.0 (currently)
High Point, NC
--

Quote

but I've seen and learned things from it that I would have never known about how my boat works without it!

I see local catamaran Olympic contender/coach Robbie Daniels sailing on his chase boat with camera's following his students. they go back and review/ analyze the "game tape" (if you want to improve your sailing, take a class with him)

if you can get someone to follow and film you - you can learn a ton about your sailing/helming/leach and luff shapes... etc


leeboweffect - fun video - Please explain what is going on with your jib tack

Edit - nevermind - i got it. the camera is below the tack and it tricked me



Edited by MN3 on Aug 02, 2017 - 05:24 PM.

Ha Ha, you went by that little monohull like he was at anchor.
We haven't had the 5.0 out for a couple of weeks now, trying to dial in the Dart 15, either no wind or 40kts with thunderstorms all week.
I don't think the Dart will be as fast as the 5.0, & it certainly won't be as good in the rough water, but it does fly a hull easily, & you can push it, a kid can right it from a flip.



Edited by Edchris177 on Aug 02, 2017 - 06:49 PM.

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Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
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Edchris177

Ha Ha, you went by that little monohull like he was at anchor.

That guy and his wife are friends of mine and I always try to buzz their 4KSB if possible. Here is a quick clip of my last close encounter shot by his wife from their boat. If you don't blink you can see the "NACRA 5.0" logo flash by.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-PZlgzb594

One thing that stuck out like a sore thumb to me in the video is the mast rotation. The mast is rotated to 90 deg. at some points and that seems to be way to much for a close hauled run which all of these are. I think performance would be enhanced with a limiter. Anyone ever rig one on a 5.0? Hardware? Geometry? Pics? Maybe the 5.2 setup would work fine, but I don't have any details on it.

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Hobie 16 (3 formerly)
MacGregor 25 (formerly)
Chrysler Dagger 14 (formerly)
NACRA 5.0 (currently)
High Point, NC
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I think the 5.7 mast rotation control would work great for you. I'm pretty sure EdChris has pics in his collection here.

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Tom
NACRA 5.7 (1984 Sail 181)
Pennsylvania
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couple thoughts on this:
the times you are 90* - you are at max heel (in the video) - i think we can assume its a puff
that would be a pretty good time to over rotate, move and reduce draft thus reduce heeling

Secondly - this would be a good time for you to move a hole forward on your clew plate - have you tired this? does this reduce over rotation?

lastly - i can try and get some pics this weekend of my friends g-cat with forward rotation control
it's a fair amount of drilling (mast for arm, 4 places on beam for turning blocks, and some type of cleat by the side stay to lock it in position)

Quote

One thing that stuck out like a sore thumb to me in the video is the mast rotation. The mast is rotated to 90 deg. at some points and that seems to be way to much for a close hauled run which all of these are. I think performance would be enhanced with a limiter. Anyone ever rig one on a 5.0? Hardware? Geometry? Pics? Maybe the 5.2 setup would work fine, but I don't have any details on it.

It's pretty simple, i have spares of all the parts if you want to give it a try.
On the boomless, the wishbone goes forward, there are 2 different wishbones, a wide one, & a "V", I have them both. The rotator hole is drilled through the mast base, so it won't leak if you turtle. I think I have a spare mast base, already drilled.
This photo was when I first got the boat. There is quite a bit or force trying to twist the mast, 2:1 setup works much better.
The hardware is the same, you just change the line orientation. It should dead end with a Figure 8 knot at the left pad eye, (just beside the cleat), run out to the wishbone-through the "eye" at the end of the wishbone-back through the left cleat,(where you started)-around behind the mast-through the right cleat-out to "eye" on wishbone-back to right pad eye, & dead end there.
It becomes a continuous line & gives 2:1


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Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

There has been a lot of mis-information the last couple of weeks regarding boomless rigs. Simplified illustration, boomless rotators "induce" rotation, while boomed rigs "limit" rotation. A lot of people just don't get that. The simplicity is the beauty of boomless rigs. As you apply mainsheet, mast rotation actively decreases and draft is reduced, and the opposite happens when you ease the sheet. Boomless rotation controls aren't really necessary upwind. Down wind they will make a difference in a performance tuned rig.

Clew plates and clew tracks: There is a wide range of clew tacks provide on the sail, these adjustments are provide for the infinite ways to "rake" the rig. Once you're set up, adjustments should be no more than a hole forward or aft. With the clew traveler it's only an inch or so, once you find the sweet spot. Rarely do you need to adjust this.

Leebow, not much is going to change for you relating to draft in your dacron sails, they are tired. They get full and no level of sail controls will fix it. If you chose to add the rotation arm, you should get the oversized wide arm. It will make using the arm as a limiter manageable, and it adds performance down wind. I think I have some rotation arms I could provide, I'll have to check.

Here are some pics of the oversized rotator properly set up with rotation cleats.

Disclaimer: I actually have a lot of experience with boomless rigs. Third pic is provide to show how flat you can tune the sail without using a rotation limiter.







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Philip
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MN3

Secondly - this would be a good time for you to move a hole forward on your clew plate - have you tired this? does this reduce over rotation?

Have not tried it, but will be playing around with it. Controlling the foot has become of great concern to me lately having come across a mainsail with a clew plate position that seems too far aft:

https://www.thebeachcats.…ms/viewtopic/topic/16800



Edited by leeboweffect on Aug 04, 2017 - 10:19 AM.

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Hobie 16 (3 formerly)
MacGregor 25 (formerly)
Chrysler Dagger 14 (formerly)
NACRA 5.0 (currently)
High Point, NC
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Edchris177

It's pretty simple, i have spares of all the parts if you want to give it a try.

Thanks for the photo and parts offer Ed.

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Hobie 16 (3 formerly)
MacGregor 25 (formerly)
Chrysler Dagger 14 (formerly)
NACRA 5.0 (currently)
High Point, NC
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P.M.

There has been a lot of mis-information the last couple of weeks regarding boomless rigs

Tell me about it:

https://www.thebeachcats.…ms/viewtopic/topic/16800

So far not one response on clew plate location from other 5.0 mains

I have not found even one definitive technical piece on boomless rig design or theory which would be helpful to answer my concerns relative to sheeting angle.

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Hobie 16 (3 formerly)
MacGregor 25 (formerly)
Chrysler Dagger 14 (formerly)
NACRA 5.0 (currently)
High Point, NC
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The owners forum at Aquarius Sail has some info on this since almost all the Supercats are boomless

http://owners.aquarius-sail.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=868


Try that info. Bill Roberts is as about as definitive an expert there is.



Edited by tnell on Aug 04, 2017 - 11:12 AM.

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Tim
Collierville (Memphis), TN
Supercat 15--sold :(
Hobie monocat--given
Vanguard 15--traded for...
Nacra 4.5--sold
Nacra 5.7
Hobie 14–sold to make room for...
Supercat 17–sold
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This might be the only subject I can agree somewhat with Bill Roberts on. Bill is a smart guy but calling him a definitive expert is negating all that has been learned in the years since an ARC22 was a new boat.

That being said his testing was reasonably methodical, if dated (new rigs behave rather differently than old rigs). We do not touch the outhaul on the F18, N20, or A-Cat between upwind and downwind unless its really really light and we need as much power from the sail as possible. In such a case, I would rather be on the beach drinking.

Everything P.M says makes sense and he is an experienced racer. I will say I think a proper sail can be built boomless. It is all about learning how to use what you have!

P.M.

There has been a lot of mis-information the last couple of weeks regarding boomless rigs. Simplified illustration, boomless rotators "induce" rotation, while boomed rigs "limit" rotation. A lot of people just don't get that. The simplicity is the beauty of boomless rigs. As you apply mainsheet, mast rotation actively decreases and draft is reduced, and the opposite happens when you ease the sheet. Boomless rotation controls aren't really necessary upwind. Down wind they will make a difference in a performance tuned rig.

When I picked up the new square top for my 5.8 I remember Skip Elliott telling me with the boom-less rig there are two major settings for the mast for my N5.8NA, 90 plus degrees to the wind for downwind sailing, and the trailing edge pointing half way between the shroud and the ream beam for almost everything else... form there minor adjustments can be made, but give it a few seconds to settle in before you make another adjustment.

Another inside tip he gave me with the boomless sail that has really helped over the years... lower tell tails flopping adjust with traveler.. upper tel tails flopping adjust with main sheet... prior to that I was just using the main sheet and slight course adjustment to get the tell tails flowing.. Oh! This works on boomed boats too...



Edited by JohnES on Aug 04, 2017 - 06:09 PM.

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John Schwartz
Ventura, CA
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tnell

The owners forum at Aquarius Sail has some info on this since almost all the Supercats are boomless

Thanks tnell. I will take a look at posts on the SC's and their sail trim setup etc.. Locally there have been a couple of SC17's over the years. I have always been impressed with them. Superb quality build and with large bow displacement you can drive the crap out of them DW.

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Hobie 16 (3 formerly)
MacGregor 25 (formerly)
Chrysler Dagger 14 (formerly)
NACRA 5.0 (currently)
High Point, NC
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