https://okaloosa.craigsli…hobie-20/6427569668.html

Tom the seller told me over the phone he replaced the leaf springs bearings and tires 2 years ago and everything was in excellent condition. By the way after speaking with Tom for the first time after the first min I knew he was a Jerk!!!

Anyhow....after driving 5 hours to met Tom I looked over the cat the mast has a bow in it and looks like someone hit the comp-tip with a hammer at mid point ...... overall seemed to be good enough for a newbies first sail boat to learn on. After inspecting the trailer I showed the Jerk that all the components from the leaf springs to the ground was totally rusted out and I mean RUSTED OUT!!!! A Freaken Death Trap, he insisted that it was sound trailer and safe to tow ....... I reminded him I had a 5 hour drive on interstate to get back home ...... again he insisted it was safe ....... I could not believe what I was hearing from Tom....At this point I was thinking he was not only a Jerk, but an Idiot TO!

Notes about the trailer inspection:
Trailer axle, leaf springs, bolts and u bolt bracket .... I'm like WOW....totally rusted out. UBolt bracket for example use to be 1/4" steel plate after knocking the rust off it was 1/16" thick!!!!.....On one tire the rim is swollen from rust in the center around all the studs...a disaster just waiting to happen.The hanger bolt and nut for leaf springs had rusted completely OFF yes that right COMPLETELY OFF. The spring clips ...... Completely GONE .... I pulled/flaked them off with my fingers ....... Very surprised the entire suspension system hasn't totally fallen apart just sitting at the boat yard.

Most important thing you should be concerned with about Tom!
The Trailer is a death trap for you and anyone that would be traveling behind you. Tom just doesn't CARE about your life or anyone else for that matter ..... He just wants to sell it at any cost!!!! His wife must be so proud of him!!! Imagine knowing your selling a Cat with a trailer held together with rust that's obviously not road worthy ....... Imagine your watching the evening news the next day and find out there was a 10 car pile up on Hwy 10 where Tom's Cat trailer disintegrates and there are multiple injuries and a Woman and her children died?

If Tom sells it tomorrow after I've made Tom the Idiot aware of the problems and dangers, and someone dies from the trailer disintegrating on a hwy and causes a death or even just auto injuries....Do you think the state of Florida should charge Tom with Manslaughter?

https://okaloosa.craigsli…hobie-20/6427569668.html



Edited by sailerrick on Dec 24, 2017 - 02:46 AM.

--
Still looking for a good used Catamaran
Jacksonville FL
--

Wow, that sucks. I grew up in Niceville, graduated from NHS in 1984, Mom, was a science teacher there as well. Anyway, don't know who Tom is but he really should've been up front about any and all blemishes concerning the boat. I wonder how old the pictures are that are used in his ad because the trailer looks solid in the pic, although you cant see the axle and springs. I hope you find a good boat and wish you good luck in your search.
I once drove 4 hours in a borrowed truck on my only day off to look at a Hobie 14 that looked good in the ad and I talked to the owner a couple of times. When I saw the boat needed a lot of "Love" and the trailer tires were dry rotted, I politely declined, jumped back in the truck and went straight home. I looked at 3 or 4 boats before finding the one I have now.



Edited by martyr on Dec 24, 2017 - 07:13 PM.

--
Marty
1984 Hobie 16 Redline Yellow Nationals, "Yellow Fever"
Opelika, Al / Lake Martin
--

Sent me plenty of photos just none of the trailer suspension.....The jerk lied about the trailer still insisting to buy and drive it home!!!!!! Putting people in danger that is life threating..... Knowingly putting lives at risk!!!!!



Edited by sailerrick on Dec 25, 2017 - 01:00 AM.

--
Still looking for a good used Catamaran
Jacksonville FL
--

tough but common lesson

now you know - if you have to drive out of town to see a boat/car/plane/horse...

ask for dozens and dozens of pics and video
of everywhere - esp beam bolts and attachment points

In Tom's defense - 2 years in fl sun/salt can kill an axle and wheels if not covered and all salt removed

BE GLAD IT WAS THIS BAD and you were smart enough to walk away - the boat was probably worse in spots you couldn't see - this wasn't the right boat

Sorry that happend, especially since I’m the guy that said you need to travel to get what you want. I’m in the Big Bend of Florida, if you ever want me to glance at cat near here I’m happy to. I commend you on walking away, it can be tough to do.

I’ve been on both sides of this. Drove to Austin once and bought a Hobie 18 sight unseen for $500, and after a Walmart light job drove it 750 miles back and got several years of great sailing on her without even having to buy a drain plug.

Drove 5 hours to get Hobie 16 that had imaculate photos. Got there, trailer was junk and mast was semi buried behind some bushes with some of the standing rigging having been victim to a riding mower. I always replace standing rigging anyway but you’d think that would make it in the ad. Hulls were solid and had some nice after market parts and beach wheels so I negotiated way low and got an axel from a farm and feed type store, with tires already on it, another walmart light job still have her and still get compliments on her although the trailer is now in a scrap yard.

This is Tom in Niceville. "sailerrick" is lying. He did not know what he was looking at. I do not beleive he has ever sailed. He "picked" at my Hobie 20 for 2 hours and then declared trailer unfit and asked for a steep discount. I sent him packing after returning his deposit. I stand behind my boat and trailer. I sail in the Gulf off Destin FL and have trailered my boat around Florida with no issues.

See my ad with pics posted today.

I believe I will see sailerrick in small claims court soon for unwarranted public defamation. The guy has issues.

Let's make sure this discussion remains civil.

The ad for Tom's H20 is here, thanks for advertising, it's always up to the buyer and seller to determine what is a good deal, so communication and inspection is key.

https://www.thebeachcats.…15512-1997-hobie-20.html

--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

How To Create Your Signature

How To Create Your Own Cool Avatar

How To Display Pictures In The Forums.
--

The way I see it. Ask for close pics of boat and trailer. Don't be calling a man a jerk and idiot in a public forum. I have had my share of useless trips looking but wished the people well. Just such it up and move on. Life can be beautiful so I wish all the best and happy new year to all. I'm the other Tom

--
Tom Bainbridge, Ga. Hobie16, prindle 18.2
--

Yeah, the boat looks pretty good for the price. A miracle is Definitely NOT a good choice fur a beginner in any way. You win some you Lose some, which is why you go see it in person. Big overreaction by sailor rick, this didn’t deserve such a post. These are old boats and there are always a few issues with them. If it were me And I really wanted the boat the trailer wouldn’t have been a big issue. A new hobie 16 is running about $ 12k+ Right now...

--
Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
--

agreed with the posts above
Seems an over reaction to rusty rims and u bolts and springs - these items degrade quickly and are easy as pie to replace (and actually cheap- the mark up on these parts is like 700%)

go to a hardware store ans spend $30 and get new ones all around
Rims rusty? buy new wheels

the trailer actually looks like it is in great shape from the images - of course rust can be found on the bolts - find a single trailer in fl without rusty bolts (that is over a year old) and you are a super detective



3k for this boat seems like a very good deal if the boat is as sound as stated - even sans trailer


I don't think Tom has much of a case - but Rick needs a lesson in etiquette - calling him all sorts of names, dragging his wife into this????? and it is pretty clear - Rick doesn't know / nor listen to advice from those who do - or he wouldn't have gone this route to begin with (picking a very advanced boat that he was warned was not a good choice)

best of luck to both -

Gosh if I ever advertise my boat I will just say it's wore out rusty delaminated busted piece of crap just to be safe but it has hope. I'll take this amount××××× and most likely the looker might be pleasantly surprised. I bought a boat that makes the hobie 20 look like a cream puff. I wish I had the money to buy that hobie from Tom. Like mn3 said a few bucks and fix the so called rusty parts on the trailer and you are a happy camper. I am so sorry Tom had to read that mess about him. Happy New year Tom.

--
Tom Bainbridge, Ga. Hobie16, prindle 18.2
--

After first reading this thread, my initial thought was - It’s freakin’ craigslist, what the hell do you expect? You roll the dice, you take your chances, sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesen’t.

This thread should be deleted IMO, it is doing the seller Tom an unwarranted disservice.

sm

Amen, delete this thread. The seller is not being treated fairly.

--
Tom Bainbridge, Ga. Hobie16, prindle 18.2
--

Exposing the dangerous lies of Tom the JERK and hes also a Idiot I've had people to message me to thank me for saving them the aggravation, time and gas.

Calling out Tom the JERK I very may have prevented a catastrophe ..... and who knows saved a few lives.

Anyone that has posted negative comments towards me for dragging a Liar/Idiot through the mud that's purposely or maybe hes just a flat out Idiot putting lives in danger should have there head examined!!!

For you mentally challenged trolls, Originally he was asking $3500 ...... hes now lowered the price to $3k ......



Edited by sailerrick on Jan 01, 2018 - 09:43 PM.

--
Still looking for a good used Catamaran
Jacksonville FL
--

I have been reading and conversing on Beachcat site for about 6 years now . I always appreciated the great knowledge and good hearted wit of all the users . This thread has become ugly and beneath the standards of the site .

I wish everyone a Happy New Year !!

I've known Tom for a number of years and he's a great guy. In fact I almost bought his boat a few years ago and last time I saw it it was in great shape. Definitely one of the better kept boats in the area and I can't imagine the trailer is any less.

In his defense this last summer I crawled under my trailer to resecure a wire for my trailer lights, I happened to look at my leaf springs and realized they were literally rotting out from under the trailer. I have no idea how they didn't spate from the trailer last time I towed it. I'm very particular about the condition of my boat and trailer so to find the undercarriage in such bad shape was a total shock but it made me realize how fast it can happen.

Happy New Year!!

Another Tom

sailerrick

Exposing the dangerous lies of Tom the JERK and hes also a Idiot I've had people to message me to thank me for saving them the aggravation, time and gas.

Calling out Tom the JERK I very may have prevented a catastrophe ..... and who knows saved a few lives.

Anyone that has posted negative comments towards me for dragging a Liar/Idiot through the mud that's purposely or maybe hes just a flat out Idiot putting lives in danger should have there head examined!!!

For you mentally challenged trolls, Originally he was asking $3500 ...... hes now lowered the price to $3k ......Edited by sailerrick on Jan 01, 2018 - 09:43 PM.

Sailerick,

Coming from a person that really knows how to piss people off in seconds flat I will say you're really not looking make friends here...

As my friend of mine that is a Family Law Attorney (Divorce Lawyer) puts it... " there are three sides to the story, his, her's, and the truth... the first one to accuse is usually..." well lets just say somethings are better left unsaid..

Good luck to you sir

John



Edited by JohnES on Jan 02, 2018 - 01:23 PM.

--
John Schwartz
Ventura, CA
--

TomMason

I've known Tom for a number of years and he's a great guy. In fact I almost bought his boat a few years ago and last time I saw it it was in great shape. Definitely one of the better kept boats in the area and I can't imagine the trailer is any less.

In his defense this last summer I crawled under my trailer to resecure a wire for my trailer lights, I happened to look at my leaf springs and realized they were literally rotting out from under the trailer. I have no idea how they didn't spate from the trailer last time I towed it. I'm very particular about the condition of my boat and trailer so to find the undercarriage in such bad shape was a total shock but it made me realize how fast it can happen.

Happy New Year!!

Another Tom

Apparently you don't know Tom well..... Everyone knows hes a DICK .... Hell .... It didn't take me 1 minute on the phone before he showed his ass....All I said was Hello Tom.

Tom told me he bought the cat 2 years ago! Please explain to me how you could have almost bought it from Tom a few years ago.

Tom claims to have replaced the leaf springs, tires and bearings 2 years ago ..... Will assume for now that's not a lie to. Who advertises a galvanized trailer and replaces structural bolts and nut, leaf springs etc with non-galvanized components living on the Gulf of Mexico? Maybe a incompetent so called mechanical engineer?

By the way, Tires are dry rotted to!

For those of you which are mentally challenged please read the post as many times as it takes to clearly understand the subject at hand before posting anything else IGNORANT ..... I'll pray for you!



Edited by sailerrick on Jan 02, 2018 - 09:13 PM.

--
Still looking for a good used Catamaran
Jacksonville FL
--

sailerrick

... For those of you which are mentally challenged please read the post as many times as it takes to clearly understand the subject at hand before posting anything else IGNORANT ..... I'll pray for you!Edited by sailerrick on Jan 02, 2018 - 09:13 PM.

sailerrick please change your tone in future posts. This website does not allow personal attacks or name calling. This isn't Facebook comments!

I understand you were disappointed with the boat you looked at. It happens, I once drove to Huntsville Alabama to look at a beachcat and was pretty horrified with what I found, but everyone's opinion is their own and it didn't occur to me to trash the seller personally.

I allowed your original post "warning" about Tom's boat since it was on Craigslist and things like that do happen, however your further attacks and even lashing out at other members who know Tom is over the top.

For those wanting me to delete the topic, I think right now it's more likely to help Tom sell his boat than not, and anyone looking at it can personally inspect the trailer for themselves.

--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

How To Create Your Signature

How To Create Your Own Cool Avatar

How To Display Pictures In The Forums.
--

Damon. - Thanks for leaving this up - even though there is a lot of name calling - there is a lot of good info here and Tom should have a place to defend himself

Quote

For you mentally challenged trolls, Originally he was asking $3500 ...... hes now lowered the price to $3k

You mentioned he offered to lower the price

This mentally challenged troll could buy new tires, axle and springs (plus hardware) for the $500 (twice)

sounds like he was a motivated seller, trying to work with you to get you a good boat at a good price

Quote

Who advertises a galvanized trailer and replaces structural bolts and nut, leaf springs etc with non-galvanized components living on the Gulf of Mexico? Maybe a incompetent so called mechanical engineer?

Why do you say they were non galvanized? Did he tell you they weren't?
Even if they were Galvanized OR SS - nuts and bolts still die a quick death in florda sun and sand

I have replaced 4 year old SS parts on my custom trailer cause the ss nuts had rusted out - and this boat/trailer is hand washed after use EVERY time. and lives under tarps

Quote

By the way, Tires are dry rotted to!

Yup - a couple years in Fl can dry rot tires and kill rims - they sell them at Wal-mart



Side note:

Quote

I could not believe what I was hearing from Tom....At this point I was thinking he was not only a Jerk, but an Idiot TO!

When you are calling someone else an idiot, it's a good idea to use correct spelling and capitalization ... or you may look foolish
"too"

Quote

Anyone that has posted negative comments towards me for dragging a Liar/Idiot through the mud that's purposely or maybe hes just a flat out Idiot putting lives in danger should have there head examined!!!

(Again)
When you are calling someone else an idiot, it's a good idea to use correct spelling and capitalization (their heads, not there heads)

Quote

Maybe a incompetent so called mechanical engineer?

(again)
when slandering someone professional competency, improper spelling/grammar will not help your cause
(Maybe an incompetent ...)

BTW - you have crossed the line into liable with this comment IMHO, attacking his profession


YMMV



Edited by MN3 on Jan 03, 2018 - 01:44 PM.

sailerrick

Apparently you don't know Tom well..... Everyone knows hes a DICK .... Hell .... It didn't take me 1 minute on the phone before he showed his ass....All I said was Hello Tom.

If that was your opinion Tom after spending a minute on the phone with him, why did you bother to carry on the conversation and move forward?

--
John Schwartz
Ventura, CA
--

It is normal for me to use bad grammar while typing and even worse speaking bad grammer and using prepositional endings. I also notice it as well.I catch myself typing there instead of their sometimes. My sentences are terrible. You will not catch me calling someone an idiot. Calling people idiots, jerks,mentally challenged trolls, holes and whatever is not acceptable anywhere. I was shocked by all of the name calling here and I am so glad others joined in as a family to correct this unusually strange thread. I am so blessed to be a part of this group. You guys are always here when we have problems with our beachcats and always get great help when we need answers. Happy New Year and be safe sailing.ec

--
Tom Bainbridge, Ga. Hobie16, prindle 18.2
--

ec

It is normal for me to use bad grammar while typing and even worse speaking bad grammer and using prepositional endings. I also notice it as well.I catch myself typing there instead of their sometimes. My sentences are terrible. You will not catch me calling someone an idiot. Calling people idiots, jerks,mentally challenged trolls, holes and whatever is not acceptable anywhere. I was shocked by all of the name calling here and I am so glad others joined in as a family to correct this unusually strange thread. I am so blessed to be a part of this group. You guys are always here when we have problems with our beachcats and always get great help when we need answers. Happy New Year and be safe sailing.ec

I have terrible spelling and grammar as well... THAT is why i don't call people jerks ( just kidding, i still call em jerks)

The Sailors I know (especially cat sailors) seem to be adventure seekers, strong willed and opinionated ! so it is not hard to believe we have strong feelings and emotions and occasionally outbursts :)

This is a great forum full of great people (and MUCH more aware of being polite - than many other sailing forums)


Thanks for your input and happy new years too

I say we all go down to Nicevile , take that trailer(good or bad) down to the beach and light her up bomb-fire . Roast some dogs off it ..down some beers ... breakout the Tequila , even !!! This mess , just like the hangovers , will pass . Hell , this could even develope into “ Tom’s Terrible Trailer Beachcat Regatta “

Tom, from the pics, it looks like someone will get a fine boat. We had a guy with a Miracle 20 at our club for a few years and had great times sailing together ..such a nice boat and pretty quick . Anyways, Hope you plan on another cat and stay with the group..

Hopefully Tom will convince the next one it's safe to tow...... On his way home hopefully all of you trolls will be traveling behind him! Carma is real!

--
Still looking for a good used Catamaran
Jacksonville FL
--

hopefully the right owner will get this beautiful cat and sail the snot out of it for years



Edited by MN3 on Jan 04, 2018 - 10:48 AM.

sailerrick

Hopefully Tom will convince the next one it's safe to tow...... On his way home hopefully all of you trolls will be traveling behind him! Carma Karma is real!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll
In Internet slang, a troll (/troʊl, trɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting quarrels or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community

It wasn't us that came in here calling the seller "a jerk and idiot and dangerous liar, recklessness and life endangerment, suggesting he should be charged with Manslaughter, attacking his professional abilities, dragging in his wife, and everyone else who "needs their troll heads examined"

over some (totally common) rust issues under a trailer used in florida sun/sand

whom is the troll?



Edited by MN3 on Jan 04, 2018 - 12:09 PM.

This thread is an ugly stain on an otherwise normally pleasant forum. It reflects poorly on the beach cat sailing community where, in my over 30 years of experience, sailors are normally open minded, easy going, and cordial to others.

I disagree with Damon’s decision not to delete this thread, but it’s his site and he can do as he chooses. But we all have the power to discontinue posting and just let this damn thing die....

sm

I still think this thread needs to be deleted.



Edited by ec on Jan 05, 2018 - 09:56 AM.

Dang it, I ran out of popcorn. Wow, sounds like someone needs to chalk this one up as a life lesson and just move on. This is a great and helpful community for sure, people on here are not trolls and definitely not idiots, there is a wealth of information to be found within the pages of this forum, all put there by people who know what the hell they are doing. Too bad the OP had a bad experience, but shit happens. Suck it up, be mature about it and move on, preferably away from this community and cat sailing altogether.

On a side note, "Carma" is not real, but whoa, "Karma", now that's a whole different animal altogether!!!



Edited by martyr on Jan 04, 2018 - 04:25 PM.

--
Marty
1984 Hobie 16 Redline Yellow Nationals, "Yellow Fever"
Opelika, Al / Lake Martin
--

I have read this thread before, maybe a few years ago.

--
Ted
Hobie 16
South Carolina Lake sailing
--

I agree with those that suggest a more civil discussion. I had an experience of finding a "great deal" on a Nacra I20 about two years ago. Flew out from Maryland to Minnesota then drove two and a half hours to Rice Lake, Wisconsin. Wanted to see boat myself before it was shipped. People who now owned boat but were not sailors said boat was sailing just two months ago and "everything looked good". On arrival Mylar main had two massive tears, jib furler was removed and jib was wrapped around forestay, had replaced rear access port with larger port that buckled and could not screw down cover, spinnaker pole was broken, and sail box leaked and all sails in it were wet (5 jibs no other main except ripped one). People were civil and offered me a discount but with cost of repairs and shipping was not a good deal. I was never sure if they tried to scam me or if they just didn't know. I actually dried out sails on lines prior to leaving and was not nasty about my experience. On my way back driving to airport in Minneapolis, I got a call from a guy who was interested in the boat. He also used this forum. Talked for over an hour with him. He understood problems but did not need to pay for boat to be transported and he purchased the boat. Lesson learned: deals that usually are too good to be true are usually pipe dreams, get lots of pictures of boat, trailer, and all major equipment (especially sails) prior to seeing boat.

--
Scott
ARC 21
Prindle 18
Annapolis, Maryland
--

From everyone's responses it seem you all would push your grandmother in front of the bus just to make a buck!!!

With friends like you, who needs enemies?

--
Still looking for a good used Catamaran
Jacksonville FL
--

Then get off of this Forum.....When you are no longer "Still Looking for good used Catamaran" and actually own one come back with a better attitude!!!

--
Pete
2001 NACRA 450 SOLD
2000 NACRA 500 TOTAL LOSS
2004 NACRA INTER 20 SOLD
2016 NACRA 500 Sport
DeLand, FL
--

The hobie 20 was sold. Someone got a good deal. As far as what Pete says, I second that.but I hope he never returns to this forum.

--
Tom Bainbridge, Ga. Hobie16, prindle 18.2
--

The sailed Rick person just sent me a very fowl message and I feel threatened.. This person should not have access to this forum. If these messages continue to appear on my message then I will just discontinue this forum. People like this should not be permitted to come here. I am to oldfor this.

--
Tom Bainbridge, Ga. Hobie16, prindle 18.2
--

ec

The sailed Rick person just sent me a very fowl message and I feel threatened.. This person should not have access to this forum. If these messages continue to appear on my message then I will just discontinue this forum. People like this should not be permitted to come here. I am to oldfor this.

Sorry to hear ... - you shouldn't get harassed by anyone on here
Please don't take it too personally (if one butt head is being ... a butt-head) and I hope you will stick around - your contributions are appreciated

Please contact Damon -https://www.thebeachcats.com/pm/newpm/uid/2
he is the site admin (and owner) and can address the issue and remove anyone who isn't following the rules (be respectful to others)



Edited by MN3 on Jan 16, 2018 - 09:56 AM.

After examining the message Tom mentioned and sailerrick's history of posts on the forum and PM's I've decided to deactivate the sailerrick account.

sailerrick if you read this, please understand that you were warned on how to behave on this site and you have repeatedly failed to do so and abused everyone here.

The kind of behavior exhibited by sailerrick is so rare that I can't remember the last time in the 15+ years of owning and managing this site.

sailerrick, if you have a need to contact me, please use the "Contact Us" form linked in the main menu. You won't be able to send any more PM's or post on the forum.

--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN

How To Create Your Signature

How To Create Your Own Cool Avatar

How To Display Pictures In The Forums.
--

Thank you Mn3, Thank you Damon. It's a great site.I am proud to be part of this community.

--
Tom Bainbridge, Ga. Hobie16, prindle 18.2
--

Yes, big thanks here as well. That guy should not have acted the way he did, very immature to say the least. Now let's move forward as a community, hey it's going to start to get warmer in a few months, lots of cat sailing to do. Whoo hoo!!!!

--
Marty
1984 Hobie 16 Redline Yellow Nationals, "Yellow Fever"
Opelika, Al / Lake Martin
--

Thanks Damon,
This thread really needs to die a horrible death. I think we can all be grateful that we don't encounter the kind of animosity that Sailerrick has too often. Consequently we are completely unprepared to have to deal with it when it does happen. I for one wonder how someone like that gets through a day and when they do it must be a really sucky end.

All those negative vibes..............

--
dg
NACRA 5.2 #400
This End Up
Original owner since 1975
--

Wow...He sent me a pretty nasty PM as well. Thank God he is banned from this site. What an A******!!!!!

--
Pete
2001 NACRA 450 SOLD
2000 NACRA 500 TOTAL LOSS
2004 NACRA INTER 20 SOLD
2016 NACRA 500 Sport
DeLand, FL
--

saltlife77

Wow...He sent me a pretty nasty PM as well. Thank God he is banned from this site. What an A******!!!!!

How come I didn't get one??? I feel left out...

He'll be back..... with a new name of course...

--
John Schwartz
Ventura, CA
--