Hi guys,

I'm psyched over the top to be the new owner of a 1998 P18-2, and am putting up my first post here to say hi and thanks to the forum owner and contributors. This forum has been a big help to me already.

Here's a pic of the boat:



And here's a video of a prior owner sailing it in high winds in the Barnegat Bay, NJ. Man this thing moves!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlEbMYx3YI0

I have not previously been a beachcat (or any sailboat) owner. My background is sailing a sunfish as a kid (taught by my Dad, forever grateful, RIP), and later I rented P16s and sailed them pretty hard. So I got to like Prindles. But that was 25-30 years ago -- til last summer I rented a Hobie Wave, which was great, and I got the bug to get something.

So this winter I started looking and immediately saw a good-looking P18-2 for sale on craigslist only an hour from me. I had no idea what a P18-2 was, except I knew Prindle. So I found this forum, where I found all these great reviews and info about it. You guys said it's based on the Tornado design, so it's a good design that really moves, but the retractable centerboards would be great for shallow water sailing, which is what we've got here in the Barnegat.

You guys also said if it's your first boat you should buy what's near you that seems to be in good condition.

So I took all that to heart and figured I was looking at a great opportunity that I'd better jump on. I think I got a great deal from a really nice seller, who's a very experienced beachcat sailor.

I realize this is a step up from what I've sailed before, but that's a big part of the excitement. My brother and I are no longer spring chickens, that's for sure, but we're still pretty athletic and pretty sure we're up for the challenge. Also, I have a friend who's a very experienced non-cat sailor and is ready to go too.

The boat's in really good shape, I think, but it's still not new, and I've got a few questions I'd like to post up.

But for now,

thanks for the help guys!

Will
NJ

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1998 P18.2
Sailing out of SHBCC, NJ
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Ulman sails and 2nd generation rudders... You scored an awesome boat, may be one of the last 18-2 made



Edited by JohnES on Apr 14, 2018 - 02:48 AM.

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John Schwartz
Ventura, CA
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Quote

I'm psyched over the top to be the new owner of a 1998 P18-2, and am putting up my first post here to say hi and thanks to the forum owner and contributors. This forum has been a big help to me already.

Hi Will, welcome!

Since there is another thread currently talking about the pricing of an 18-2, would you mind sharing what you paid for that beautiful cat you just purchased?

Thanks!

JohnES

Ulman sails and 2nd generation rudders... You scored an awesome boat, may be one of the last 18-2 madeEdited by JohnES on Apr 14, 2018 - 02:48 AM.

Thanks, it's great to get confirmation I was fortunate to get a great boat!

--
1998 P18.2
Sailing out of SHBCC, NJ
--

MN3

Quote

I'm psyched over the top to be the new owner of a 1998 P18-2, and am putting up my first post here to say hi and thanks to the forum owner and contributors. This forum has been a big help to me already.

Hi Will, welcome!

Since there is another thread currently talking about the pricing of an 18-2, would you mind sharing what you paid for that beautiful cat you just purchased?

Thanks!

Thanks for the welcome.

Sure, I'll be happy to post up what I paid and my experience shopping the market before I made the purchase. Maybe it'll be of value.

I'll post it in the other thread.

--
1998 P18.2
Sailing out of SHBCC, NJ
--

couple comments on the video
Great looking boat - defiantly fast

Skipper needs less mast rotation - would help depower and reducer heeling (looks like more downhaul would help too - but i can't tell if it's maxed or not)
centerboards keep sliding forward (retracting) - needs some system to prevent this
need to prep your crew when your gonna dump your main/travler while they are on the wire (that's why they got soaked) - lucky the boat didn't flip on the windward side (over the crews head)
lucky he didn't capsize in that gybe - need to travel out some in a gybe

NADA lists average retail at 3200 with out trailer
You appear to be more concerned with the value than sailing the boat. GO SAILING that's when the true value appears

according to this link
http://www.nadaguides.com…DLE-18-2/10136816/values
NADA for barnegat nj is $2,770 - $3,160

- it has been snowing in nj as recently as last week, and water temp is in the mid 40's - your telling him to GO SAILING is preamture



Edited by MN3 on Apr 16, 2018 - 08:05 AM.

MN3

couple comments on the video
Great looking boat - defiantly fast

Skipper needs less mast rotation - would help depower and reducer heeling (looks like more downhaul would help too - but i can't tell if it's maxed or not)
centerboards keep sliding forward (retracting) - needs some system to prevent this
need to prep your crew when your gonna dump your main/travler while they are on the wire (that's why they got soaked) - lucky the boat didn't flip on the windward side (over the crews head)
lucky he didn't capsize in that gybe - need to travel out some in a gybe

Thanks for these tips. Couple of replies re the video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlEbMYx3YI0 ):

When it gets warm enough to sail, I'll see if the centerboards are coming up by themselves (hopefully not) and go from there.

Mast rotation: I didn't realize mast rotation adjustment accomplished this - nice learning tip, thanks.

I thought the reason the main/boom slammed over so hard in the gybe was because of not sheeting in the main before gybing - didn't realize travel out is part of gybing.

Can you provide any more detail re recommended main sheet and traveler adjustments in prep for gybing in heavy winds like this?

--
1998 P18.2
Sailing out of SHBCC, NJ
--

Quote

When it gets warm enough to sail, I'll see if the centerboards are coming up by themselves (hopefully not) and go from there.

they pivot into the hulls with the head moving forward and the bottom of the board moving aft
unless somehow controlled, they will move by themselves when the boat moves (perhaps the prindles are designed to stay in place by moving the pivot point off center. I say this because they looked to stay put most of the time with nothing holding them back, but on my cat it's balanced and the board will move for/aft with almost no pressure). the faster the boat, the more force pushing them into the hulls

on mystrere's the boat comes with 2 small deck eyes (image below) to run a bungee through (attaches to the front and back of the centerboard head). this holds the board in place (forward/retracted or aft/down for use). the issue is the bungee eventually fails and the deck eyes aren't so fun to sit on. Many (mysteres) i sail with use other methods, .like a little wedge they push in, or stuffing a line between the board/hull. I don't recommend this because IF you hit ground (or other) ... it can damage your boat - our boardwells are ridiculously thin

Quote

Mast rotation: I didn't realize mast rotation adjustment accomplished this - nice learning tip, thanks.

yes - this in combo with down-haul are your main ways to depower and reduce heeling
many cruising mono's (and others) do not have roatating masts - all (or most) racing boats do (to create a more optimal leading edge of the sail)

Quote

I thought the reason the main/boom slammed over so hard in the gybe was because of not sheeting in the main before gybing - didn't realize travel out is part of gybing.

downwind in med/heavy air you want to be traveled out and sheeted hard. on my boat at least, you need to let some mainsheet out to allow the traveler car to slide across the track/beam. If snug it will add tention to the main as it gets to center - this will eat up my track/ travler car wheels

but yes, it will slam over unless you have some technique to manage it / slamming over is a lot better than gybing and it filling with air/power and capsizing

First time i tried to gybe my 5.5 in 20 knots with it traveled to center ... i capsized and flew threw my sail window... that was exciting

Quote

Can you provide any more detail re recommended main sheet and traveler adjustments in prep for gybing in heavy winds like this?

depending on windspeed (this tech will be tricky in very heavy air/survival mode)

downwind ... i sail with the traveler out (how much depends on how deep ddw i am sailing) and the mainsheet snug (or more in heavy air)
when gybing ... keep speed up - it is very important to be sailing close to the wind speed, this will make it less explosive when the gybe happens

when i gybe: in med or heavy air i will usually try to make sure the traveler is out at least 2/3rds out, pay out some mainsheet
and as i am passing my tiller from one hand to the other - i will often grab the mainsheet bundle (between the top and bottom blocks) and manually help it over (more like stopping it from slamming than actually pushing it over, it will go by itself as long as your not over sheeted) and as it passes over ... if my timing is right, i have slowed it down enough that i can let go and simply sheet it in.

This takes a little practice and is much easier in light air ... .this is a great time to perfect your technique

HULLFLYER

NADA lists average retail at 3200 with out trailer
You appear to be more concerned with the value than sailing the boat. GO SAILING that's when the true value appears

Actually, it goes against my grain to share financial info re a private transaction on a public forum. However, a forum member asked (see post #3 above) if I'd be willing to share my purchase price in order to help out another forum member who's trying to price his P18-2 for sale. I made the decision to go ahead and do so (and have no regrets) in an effort be a contributing member to the forum. I've gotten some help here and am hoping to get some more, so I figure I should try to give back if possible.

Don't worry, I have every intention of sailing the boat and hopefully sailing it for all it's worth. Right now I have on my calendar the Statue of Liberty race for 7/7 and the Shelter Island race for 7/14. Hoping to make both.



Edited by CatFan57 on Apr 16, 2018 - 02:41 PM.

--
1998 P18.2
Sailing out of SHBCC, NJ
--

Quote

I made the decision to go ahead and do so (and have no regrets) in an effort be a contributing member to the forum. I've gotten some help here and am hoping to get some more, so I figure I should try to give back if possible.

And it's appreciated!

Quote

Mast rotation: I didn't realize mast rotation adjustment accomplished this - nice learning tip, thanks.

for upwind sailing - the rotation arm should point at the side-stays for full power and to the rear beam for depowered sailing - adjusting the traveler will effect this so after traveling you should re-check this angle

downwind - should be as close to 90*s as possible (in line with the front beam)

MN3: Keeping it brief, but I read everything in each of your posts and really appreciate all tips & info. Am recording this stuff and will work to put it into practice as soon as can start sailing. Thanks!

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1998 P18.2
Sailing out of SHBCC, NJ
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Some fantastic tips. One thing to keep in mind is how fast a P19 or 18-2 stops when the bows go under. An inch or two isn't bad, as long as she wants to come back to the surface. But, if they are aimed down, be prepared to dump everything and hang on. After a while, you'll learn her limits. I singlehanded in 32 knots on my modified 18-2 and stuffed it pretty hard. The mast is still hard. Luckily, I didn't go over, but I admitted defeat and went in. you'll really enjoy how well it drives with the rudders. The old ones were like Russian Roulette sailing... you never knew when they'd stall out.

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Scott

Prindle Fleet 2
TCDYC

Prindle 18-2 Mod "FrankenKitty"
Tornado Classic "Fast Furniture"
Prindle 19 "Mr. Wiggly"
Nacra 5.8 "De ja vu"
Nacra 5.0
Nacra 5.8
Tornadoes (Reg White)
--

Thanks for the reply. Wow, single-handing in 32kts sounds serious - glad you made it back in one piece.

Speaking of being reminded how hard the mast is when stuffing it: Have you seen this guy's amazing save while solo-ing a P19 in high winds out of Ventura?:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeEN77NJdfE
(see the sequence from 5:40 to 6:20)

Gotta hand it to him, those are some great reflexes and excellent footwork on the mast, IMO!



Edited by CatFan57 on May 31, 2018 - 09:57 PM.

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1998 P18.2
Sailing out of SHBCC, NJ
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Talk about a fast stop

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Captain Chris Holley
Fulshear, TX
'87 Prindle 19 "¡Hijole!"
'74 sunfish "1fish"
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When sailing my Two, I gybe by loosening my mainsheet and then force the car over early - about the same time I am dead downwind. I grab the bundle of mainsheet between the blocks and bring it across behind the tiller. I have tied a knot (figure 8) in the traveller line to stop the car just before it hits the bolt head that stops it's travel, because I prefer to replace the line better than the car or beam hardware. My traveler line is also a smaller diameter than the main sheet, so tying the stopper knot is easier. It is old school double polyester line, which has a nice heft and easy to cleat/uncleat. Mainsheet is 7/16" and traveller line is 5/16".
I have compiled some useful data on the Two here:

https://www.thebeachcats.…ictures?g2_itemId=123714

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Sheet In!
Bob
_/)_____/)_/)____/)____/)_____/)/)__________/)__
Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
AZ Multihull Fleet 42 member
(Way) Past Commodore of Prindle Fleet 14
Arizona, USA
--

klozhald

When sailing my Two, I gybe by loosening my mainsheet and then force the car over early - about the same time I am dead downwind. I grab the bundle of mainsheet between the blocks and bring it across behind the tiller. I have tied a knot (figure 8) in the traveller line to stop the car just before it hits the bolt head that stops it's travel, because I prefer to replace the line better than the car or beam hardware. My traveler line is also a smaller diameter than the main sheet, so tying the stopper knot is easier. It is old school double polyester line, which has a nice heft and easy to cleat/uncleat. Mainsheet is 7/16" and traveller line is 5/16".
I have compiled some useful data on the Two here:

https://www.thebeachcats.…ictures?g2_itemId=123714

Thanks for the tip about tying a knot in the traveler line to stop the car just before it hits the bolt head that stops travel. I'll put one in at that location on the line, because yesterday during a high winds & waves jibe my traveler car went all the way to the side with force and the end of the traveler line almost (but not quite) went out through the cam cleats at the center of the cross beam - so a knot would've made sure it didn't.

Too bad for some reason while changing position on the tramp during the jibe I momentarily left one hand in the wrong spot and took a blood-producing impact from the traveler car as it flew across. I was making sure not to get hit by the boom and main blocks, but the back of my hand got nailed by the traveler car.

Probably would've avoided it if I'd pulled the boom across manually in advance while dead downwind, as you mentioned, to reduce the forces before the wind took over and did it with power. I remember reading that advice in the owner's manual too - but unfortunately didn't have the presence of mind to do it yesterday while rocking & rolling solo in pretty heavy conditions.



Edited by CatFan57 on Oct 29, 2018 - 10:30 AM.

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1998 P18.2
Sailing out of SHBCC, NJ
--

Quote

but unfortunately didn't have the presence of mind to do it yesterday while rocking & rolling solo in pretty heavy conditions.

Brrrrrr - i just checked the weather up there ....
brrrrr

hope your hand is ok
I bet you will have presence of mind next gybe

MN3

Quote

but unfortunately didn't have the presence of mind to do it yesterday while rocking & rolling solo in pretty heavy conditions.

Brrrrrr - i just checked the weather up there ....
brrrrr

hope your hand is ok
I bet you will have presence of mind next gybe

Thanks! Yeah, it was pretty cool temp-wise - that's why they named it "the Nutsfreezer Race."

And no need to apply ice to my hand, it was cold enough already.



Edited by CatFan57 on Oct 29, 2018 - 10:41 AM.

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1998 P18.2
Sailing out of SHBCC, NJ
--

CatFan57

Too bad for some reason while changing position on the tramp during the jibe I momentarily left one hand in the wrong spot and took a blood-producing impact from the traveler car as it flew across. I was making sure not to get hit by the boom and main blocks, but the back of my hand got nailed by the traveler car.

Sorry to hear about your hand injury.

As you move to the center of the tramp at the rear crossbar to gybe, move your tiller extender over first and use that hand to hold the extender to the tiller crossbar. Loosen the mainsheet and start your gybe. Now grab the mainsheet between the blocks with the opposite hand and force it to the other side. Don't let go of the mainsheet right away to soften the blow when the battens pop over. Both hands should be busy and out of harm's way. After a bit of practice this will become second nature and you will have confidence even in a blow.

--
Sheet In!
Bob
_/)_____/)_/)____/)____/)_____/)/)__________/)__
Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
AZ Multihull Fleet 42 member
(Way) Past Commodore of Prindle Fleet 14
Arizona, USA
--

klozhald

As you move to the center of the tramp at the rear crossbar to gybe, move your tiller extender over first and use that hand to hold the extender to the tiller crossbar. Loosen the mainsheet and start your gybe. Now grab the mainsheet between the blocks with the opposite hand and force it to the other side. Don't let go of the mainsheet right away to soften the blow when the battens pop over. Both hands should be busy and out of harm's way. After a bit of practice this will become second nature and you will have confidence even in a blow.

Okay Klozhald, thanks for the suggested hand coordination on the gybe. I just found a video showing it at 2:05 here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_H-CkORf3-w, which I think looks the same, or pretty close to what you're suggesting. So I'll start practicing that too.



Edited by CatFan57 on Oct 31, 2018 - 05:47 AM.

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1998 P18.2
Sailing out of SHBCC, NJ
--

CatFan57

klozhald

As you move to the center of the tramp at the rear crossbar to gybe, move your tiller extender over first and use that hand to hold the extender to the tiller crossbar. Loosen the mainsheet and start your gybe. Now grab the mainsheet between the blocks with the opposite hand and force it to the other side. Don't let go of the mainsheet right away to soften the blow when the battens pop over. Both hands should be busy and out of harm's way. After a bit of practice this will become second nature and you will have confidence even in a blow.

Okay Klozhald, thanks for the suggested hand coordination on the gybe. I just found a video showing it at 2:05 here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_H-CkORf3-w, which I think looks the same, or pretty close to what you're suggesting. So I'll start practicing that too.Edited by CatFan57 on Oct 31, 2018 - 05:47 AM.

You can also throw the tiller extension into the water and steer from the crossbar, then take it again if you want, or keep driving from the crossbar. Sometimes I find myself holding the tiller extension and crossbar together more than necessary, it's uncomfortable and sometimes the the extension may get stuck underneath the other tubes, dragged by water from the outside end (perhaps that depends on the specific boat, mine is not a Prindle)



Edited by Andinista on Nov 01, 2018 - 11:35 AM.

CatFan57

Okay Klozhald, thanks for the suggested hand coordination on the gybe. I just found a video showing it at 2:05 here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_H-CkORf3-w, which I think looks the same, or pretty close to what you're suggesting. So I'll start practicing that too.

Yes, that's it.
He has his traveler car near the center, and you may be traveled out more when you gybe, but the process is as you see it.
I don't drop my extender in the water because there is a large cork ball on the end which causes a wicked bounce on the water when dragging it behind. My extension is extendable, and I collapse it prior to moving in to gybe.

--
Sheet In!
Bob
_/)_____/)_/)____/)____/)_____/)/)__________/)__
Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
AZ Multihull Fleet 42 member
(Way) Past Commodore of Prindle Fleet 14
Arizona, USA
--

Nice tip. :)

--
France at Home is an online French Supermarket that sells French products such as bread, appetizers, cheese, jams, foie gras, condiments, shampoo, saucisson, french mustard, and French bread. France At Home offers new & quality French Food because it imports products from France then deliver directly to your doorstep.
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