A lot of us probably use “Catamaran Racing for the 90s” as a go to reference. Many of the chapters are still
relevant since we are still sailing many of the same boats 30 years later. But the book could also use a major update. Several of the original contributors are still active. There are also many new boats and newer technology that could be updated.

What boats would you like to see in new version, and who would be good contributors for a chapter on those boats?

I’m thinking this might possibly be done informally and without infringing on any copyrights.

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Tim
Collierville (Memphis), TN
Supercat 15--sold :(
Hobie monocat--given
Vanguard 15--traded for...
Nacra 4.5--sold
Nacra 5.7
Hobie 14–sold to make room for...
Supercat 17–sold
--

A wiki would be a good platform to collaboratively write something like that.

In terms of boats... A-cat, a modern f18. Some foilers: n17, whisper, stunt, phantom. It's all evolving under our feet so a wiki will be much better than a book...

I’m sure we have folks here who would know how to get this started. I’m also sure it would not be me!

--
Tim
Collierville (Memphis), TN
Supercat 15--sold :(
Hobie monocat--given
Vanguard 15--traded for...
Nacra 4.5--sold
Nacra 5.7
Hobie 14–sold to make room for...
Supercat 17–sold
--

I’m not sure what you would update. The info all still applies. All you would need is a foiling chapter.

> I’m not sure what you would update.

Modern bendy carbon rigs w laminate sails are tuned rather differently. Hull shapes. Endplating. Dyneema rigging. Apparent wind and downwind steering techniques have evolved (see Bethwaite's books). I dunno, I haven't read CRFT90s, but the state of play _has_ changed.

Edited by traphappy on Sep 18, 2018 - 02:08 PM.

martin_langhoff

> I’m not sure what you would update.

Modern bendy carbon rigs w laminate sails are tuned rather differently. Hull shapes. Endplating. Dyneema rigging. Apparent wind and downwind steering techniques have evolved (see Bethwaite's books). I dunno, I haven't read CRFT90s, but the state of play _has_ changed.

"tuned rather differently" I'm assuming you can only mean a prebend rig which works on many traditional rigs with dacron sails as well. The book totally references depowering with the downhaul and mast rotation for a prebend rig. Mast and sail material dont specifically change that on their own. Not sure what evolution has happened regarding apparent wind. I own cat books all the way back to the 60-70s and all know that you use apparent wind when working downwind. Catamaran racing for the 90s even has a chapter about the wildthing and Randy Smyth has a chapter about how he sails an asym. spinnaker in there.

Other than that, I think it would be hard to add a whole book simply talking about the addition of why a flat bottomed boat can plane at speed and the advantages of a deck sweeper. I don't know what you would explain about dyneema rigging as well....it's smaller in diameter and cant corrode?

I think almost all the "advancements" in cat design, mostly surrounding the foiling A's, and F16/F18/N17 stuff wouldn't fit in a book meant to be a go to general purpose race book since there's so few people in those classes anyway. Everyone else is still racing the same boats the book from the 90's specifically references ya know.

And realistically, the Olympic level trainers and coaches that could add a lot of speed tips into a book regarding the modern boats seem to be more concerned with charging thousands of dollars for day seminars than putting the same information into easy to read books for 20 bucks a pop.

comment redacted



Edited by MN3 on Sep 18, 2018 - 06:01 PM.

martin_langhoff

see Bethwaite's books

I have to say that I own Bethwaite's High Performance Sailing: Faster Racing Techniques, and the author only mentions catamarans twice in the entire book, and one of those times is to say he isn't going to talk about catamarans. His attitude is nearly racist. His information is good, but gets advanced so quickly that the other cat sailors I have shared it with lost interest.

So if you are interested in physics and vector analysis, this is a good read - you just have to apply it to catamaran sailing yourself. There are many other good books specifically about how to steer your beachcat without the formulas.

--
Sheet In!
Bob
_/)_____/)_/)____/)____/)_____/)/)__________/)__
Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
AZ Multihull Fleet 42 member
(Way) Past Commodore of Prindle Fleet 14
Arizona, USA
--

klozhald

martin_langhoff

see Bethwaite's books

I have to say that I own Bethwaite's High Performance Sailing: Faster Racing Techniques, and the author only mentions catamarans twice in the entire book, and one of those times is to say he isn't going to talk about catamarans. His attitude is nearly racist. His information is good, but gets advanced so quickly that the other cat sailors I have shared it with lost interest.

So if you are interested in physics and vector analysis, this is a good read - you just have to apply it to catamaran sailing yourself. There are many other good books specifically about how to steer your beachcat without the formulas.

I felt the same thing reading it. As far as information you can actually use to sail faster I'd say it ranks last of all the books I own about sailing. I like technical literature like High Performance Sailing, but if I broke down the specific chunks of knowledge that have made me faster on the water, the really technical stuff has made the least difference and the simpler bigger picture items have been way more important.

I do agree on the negatives of the bethwaite books. But there's valuable stuff in them that can be squeezed out. I haven't seen a better discussion of the apparent wind dynamics during a gybe. Same with steer-for-balance.

Also agree there might not be a book worth of material. Hence the wiki suggestion...

issues w a wiki
Beach cat sites are not financially viable (they don't make money) - so there is little incentive to build one
they require IT and moderators (again no $)
the US market is very weak - so it would be more valuable and probably used more for the EU (multi languages required)
and the segmentation of this market is huge (so many types of cats) - doesn't make it easy to manage this type of "wiki"

so unless you are a manufacturer or racing coach - there is little incentive

I think the most important question is -- is the community here (and in the sister forums - catsailor, sa, etc) interested in writing up _what we know_?

It could be a short list of general rigging, techniques and racing articles, perhaps complemented with per-boat rig/tune/technique articles. There's no obligation to write x, y or z, we just write what we know and want to write about. Some folks interested in editing gently to even out the style a bit...

If the dynamics of a wiki would work for that, then there's a bunch of ways to get a free or close-to-zero-cost wiki. And an honest one -- no spam, scam nor tricks. I can take care of that angle.

Thoughts?

Yeah, there a treasure trove of information here and on catsailor. You could have an entire chapter on shock cord applications... That's what I've been searching for recently, trying to make a downhaul take-up in my main beam. It would be nice to have boat-specific information, such as ideal crew weight, different sail cut options, best sequence to depower (i.e., traveler, boards, rotator, downhaul, etc). I learn something new each week, usually from these websites.



Edited by traphappy on Sep 19, 2018 - 04:06 PM.

Considering the book is out of print and used copies are selling for $45; you could always buy the rights to the book, update it, and republish it with all the new info.... like the college textbook publishers do... but considering how the community dwindled in 1990, the ROI may not be there....

There is also the Catamaran Tunning Guide. If there is a move a foot to republish the book, maybe come up with an edition that brings the two of these together.... Maybe have tuning tips on all of the popular boats like the Hobie and Prindle 16, 18, etc...... up to the F18 class...

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John Schwartz
Ventura, CA
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