Started in another thread and continued for entertainment purposes because it is winter and there is not much actual sailing going on...

martin_langhoff

@bradinjax - glad you like it! I hope to be there for the Moth/Waszp/UFO event January 25th on my UFO. Some friends will be at the a-cat event,

If I was going to buy a new boat right now the UFO is definitely on the short list even though I have never actually sailed one. How do you feel the UFO competes against the Waszp and and Moths? How about for a 200lb person?

I am kind of waiting for the Clarks to work any design deficiencies out of gen 1 and wait to see what gen 2 looks like.

Question for the community: What are your top 3 new boats that are in current production and under 100k? Also, why would you consider it?

I would consider in no particular order:

1) UFO ($7,900) because foiling is the future.
2) The F-22 ($49,999 pick up in Phillipines) from multihullsdirect.com because of the incredible value.
3) Stiletto X ($79,999 non-foiling) because I am nuts about Stilettos. But I am not sure it actually qualifies both because of price which is unclear and I am not sure if it is actually in production.

Thanks in advance for your reply's,

Brad
Stiletto 27 on a 2 year plan

I like the Foiling F101 around $20,000. Basically a moth tri, where outriggers act like training wheels.

Stiletto, belly up.

If you are considering the UFO, have you thought about the S9? I have a friend who owned both and he sold his UFO...

@Brad - drop by Miami, and gladly I'll take you out on my UFO. I will say it's 100 times more desirable than a Moth/Waszp because M&W are a pain in the neck to launch and manage when not foiling.

I already sail a foiling boat, and handle unstable skiff-like boats. Even then...my time on a Waszp was pure swimming. It's immensely frustrating to find yourself unable to leave the f'ing launching spot/bay/marina. M&W are boats I'd want to learn with a chase boat, get towed out, rescued, etc. The UFO is a safe and sound little boat at rest/slow speeds.

Performance-wise, it will prob be close to a Waszp (and that means a good % slower than a moth), however, on foilers, skill is the differentiator.

In other words, once you can get around a course -- tacking and gybing -- in full foiling, _then_ boat differences might factor in. That's a year or two of learning away for me, I suspect.

You can have a look at my sailing/foiling UFO videos on youtube. We have some wipeouts

I like the F101 (and I can vouch for its quality) but F101, Mothquito and a few others in the segment I think miss the mark, mainly because of price and complexity/brittleness. I think the UFO got it right. The easy foiler should be cheap and rugged. Once you've mastered, _then_ you get the carbon-fiber toy costing 3x

Beyond the UFO...

- Stunt S9 -- I've sailed it, it's a damn hoot! There's an S9 at an unbeatable price right now in TX, from wlrottge's friend (he had two S9s, and one UFO, I bought his UFO...)

- Whisper -- I own a Whisper, if I didn't... I'd get one. In that space, the Nacra line has put out I think a Nacra 16 with variants. You could buy it with extra foils and race it as an F16, then foil it solo or twin. The extra foils probably cost as much as a UFO, so ...

- TF-10, at half a million, is a bit over your budget, and you can't find anyone who'll insure it. But yeah. That one, beer crate, and friends.

martin_langhoff

@Brad - drop by Miami, and gladly I'll take you out on my UFO. I will say it's 100 times more desirable than a Moth/Waszp because M&W are a pain in the neck to launch and manage when not foiling.

I already sail a foiling boat, and handle unstable skiff-like boats. Even then...my time on a Waszp was pure swimming. It's immensely frustrating to find yourself unable to leave the f'ing launching spot/bay/marina. M&W are boats I'd want to learn with a chase boat, get towed out, rescued, etc. The UFO is a safe and sound little boat at rest/slow speeds.

Performance-wise, it will prob be close to a Waszp (and that means a good % slower than a moth), however, on foilers, skill is the differentiator.

In other words, once you can get around a course -- tacking and gybing -- in full foiling, _then_ boat differences might factor in. That's a year or two of learning away for me, I suspect.

You can have a look at my sailing/foiling UFO videos on youtube. We have some wipeouts

I like the F101 (and I can vouch for its quality) but F101, Mothquito and a few others in the segment I think miss the mark, mainly because of price and complexity/brittleness. I think the UFO got it right. The easy foiler should be cheap and rugged. Once you've mastered, _then_ you get the carbon-fiber toy costing 3x

Beyond the UFO...

- Stunt S9 -- I've sailed it, it's a damn hoot! There's an S9 at an unbeatable price right now in TX, from wlrottge's friend (he had two S9s, and one UFO, I bought his UFO...)

- Whisper -- I own a Whisper, if I didn't... I'd get one. In that space, the Nacra line has put out I think a Nacra 16 with variants. You could buy it with extra foils and race it as an F16, then foil it solo or twin. The extra foils probably cost as much as a UFO, so ...

- TF-10, at half a million, is a bit over your budget, and you can't find anyone who'll insure it. But yeah. That one, beer crate, and friends.

In your opinion, or anyone else's: Is there a single or double foiling boat that can beat an un-handicapped RC-27/RC-30? This seems to me to be the current standard in high performance full displacement sailing. But I am not up on the latest and greatest foiling advances.



Edited by bradinjax on Jan 10, 2019 - 01:26 AM.

bradinjax

martin_langhoff

@Brad - drop by Miami, and gladly I'll take you out on my UFO. I will say it's 100 times more desirable than a Moth/Waszp because M&W are a pain in the neck to launch and manage when not foiling.

I already sail a foiling boat, and handle unstable skiff-like boats. Even then...my time on a Waszp was pure swimming. It's immensely frustrating to find yourself wunable to leave the f'ing launching spot/bay/marina. M&W are boats I'd want to learn with a chase boat, get towed out, rescued, etc. The UFO is a safe and sound little boat at rest/slow speeds.

Performance-wise, it will prob be close to a Waszp (and that means a good % slower than a moth), however, on foilers, skill is the differentiator.

In other words, once you can get around a course -- tacking and gybing -- in full foiling, _then_ boat differences might factor in. That's a year or two of learning away for me, I suspect.

You can have a look at my sailing/foiling UFO videos on youtube. We have some wipeouts

I like the F101 (and I can vouch for its quality) but F101, Mothquito and a few others in the segment I think miss the mark, mainly because of price and complexity/brittleness. I think the UFO got it right. The easy foiler should be cheap and rugged. Once you've mastered, _then_ you get the carbon-fiber toy costing 3x

Beyond the UFO...

- Stunt S9 -- I've sailed it, it's a damn hoot! There's an S9 at an unbeatable price right now in TX, from wlrottge's friend (he had two S9s, and one UFO, I bought his UFO...)

- Whisper -- I own a Whisper, if I didn't... I'd get one. In that space, the Nacra line has put out I think a Nacra 16 with variants. You could buy it with extra foils and race it as an F16, then foil it solo or twin. The extra foils probably cost as much as a UFO, so ...

- TF-10, at half a million, is a bit over your budget, and you can't find anyone who'll insure it. But yeah. That one, beer crate, and friends.

In your opinion, or anyone else's: Is there a single or double foiling boat that can beat an un-handicapped RC-27/RC-30? This seems to me to be the current standard in high performance full displacement sailing. But I am not up on the latest and greatest foiling advances.Edited by bradinjax on Jan 10, 2019 - 01:26 AM.

Idk how a Marstrom 32 compares to the RC30. There is a youtube video of a m32 vs N20FCS vs Moth vs foiling kiteboard. The kite ate them all for lunch, then came the M32 leaving the Moth and Nacra basically even. The M32 guys certainly looked the most comfortable.

Foiling takes a lot of skill to become faster. Plenty of the foiling A class guys get beat by good classic A class boats. That said, foiling is a total hoot.



Edited by bacho on Jan 10, 2019 - 02:00 AM.

--
Greenville SC

Offering sails and other go fast parts for A-class catamarans
--

I'm fairly certain one of the recent DNA A-Cats -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NlMUehCI5E -- will smoke and RC-30 over a short course or distance.

Foilers are a hoot, and blistering fast. The "problem" is that, until you get to Glenn Ashby-like handling, you can't sustain the speed. Their "hot zone" is tiny, it's moving around constantly, and it's very physical to track it. The Whisper is relatively relaxed -- now I am at a point where I can foil with a non-sailor friend and shoot the breeze -- but it's not the fastest foiler.

The fast toys, those need laser-like focus.

with my 100K:
new mystere ESPADON 20 and 17 for fun
A cat
f16
f18

For my $100k, there are a few on the list:

1) Aerodyne 38 or J/120 for offshore work...

2) Nacra 36 to get you M32 performance in budget: https://www.boatsonline.com.au/boats-for-sale/used/sailing-boats/nacra-36c-carbon-catamaran-cost-effective-speed/222348

Other considerations would be Time Machine (http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?/topic/196301-8mt-grainger-racing-trimaran-for-sale/), this Grainger 38 (http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?/topic/206016-types-of-mid-sized-fast-racing-catamans-for-smallish-budgets/&tab=comments#comment-6462717), and if stretching the budget, the trimaran Spirit would be added: https://anasazi-ltda.com/marine-brokerage-1/

In the more beachcat orientated world I would probably go for a F20carbon with Z-boards and a new eXploder AD3.

As many Hobie 16's as the 100 large would buy from the upcoming worlds being held across the bay. My own fleet. One for me, the rest for Punta Gorda Learn to Sail, Charlotte Sailing Association, Englewood Sailing and the Punta Gorda Sailing Club.

I'll save one for loaning to you folks for the Charlotte Harbor Regatta.

This year February 1-3.

http://www.charlotteharborregatta.com

My choice:

a boat that rigs itself

--
Dana, Holly, Emma & Hannah

LJ/Stu's Dart 18 (Sold! :( )
--

dartsailors

My choice:

a boat that rigs itself

All due respect ...

This is the only easier catamaran out there to rig than yours....

jack108136

As many Hobie 16's as the 100 large would buy from the upcoming worlds being held across the bay. My own fleet. One for me, the rest for Punta Gorda Learn to Sail, Charlotte Sailing Association, Englewood Sailing and the Punta Gorda Sailing Club.

I'll save one for loaning to you folks for the Charlotte Harbor Regatta.

This year February 1-3.

http://www.charlotteharborregatta.com

+1

I think we have a winner!

These posts are exactly what I was hoping to get. I did not even know there was such a thing as a Nacra 36. Very cool and keep it up.

Brad



Edited by bradinjax on Jan 10, 2019 - 06:12 PM.

Quote

I did not even know there was such a thing as a Nacra 36. Very cool and keep it up.

http://www.nacra.com.au/resort/nacra-36-charter