That's right. They can be added and it's not that hard to do.



My friend and I have been hankering to add some Prindle factory wings to his already-great P18-2 for years, but have been frustrated with the lack of original parts out there. So when a Getaway was ready for the boneyard recently, we bought a salvaged set of wings and went to work. The results are great.



At first, we thought the Hobie benches would have to be lengthened or offset to fit the Prindle beams, a prospect with limited chance of success. But it turns out we needed to shorten them a few inches and we were able to retain the same mounting brackets and geometry used on the Getaway.



This means the wings still fold for storage and transport, and are easy to remove, should we want to do that for racing.



We had to purchase endcaps for the Prindle beams, and designed internal brackets that secure the external Hobie brackets to the internal beam/hull connections. Sorry there are no picts of this, but think a thick aluminum channel that is strapped around the vertical hull bolts via 2 long stainless bolts. The rest of the wing hardware is stock.



With the exception of a different length bolt to replace the soc head that attaches the extension arm to the beam.



You can set the rake angle of the seat by deciding where these holes are drilled. Looking around we measured between -5º and -14º on several other Getaways and decided -6º felt about right for us. You could always drill another hole for the pin in the extension arm if you want to have a different seating angle, such as positioning the benches further away from the hulls (for added hiking effect).



My favorite mod was experimenting with different types of closed cell foam under the new mesh seat covers, My boney arse approves of this one!



Now it's time to sail and enjoy,..

BEFORE:


AFTER:


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Prindle 18
96734
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Nice setup with the wings....they look very comfortable.

--
Bill 404 21SE
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Great job guys, I always thought the getaway wings could be adapted with minimal effort to work with most beach cats.

Thanks for the share. Looks pretty straightforward and doable. Anyone know of wings in VA?

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Todd

Virginia
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Nice!
now trap out on those ...







Edited by MN3 on May 10, 2019 - 09:01 AM.

Awesome!, Now for us home builders can you post some basic dimensions? Length of poles pin to pin, seat size, pole diameter? One day I might have a big enough stock of aluminum to fab one of these. It seems all wings are hard to come by aftermarket.

--
FYC, Nacra 5.2 "Chris's Flyer" & Nacra Playcat & Farrier Tramp
Previously owned: Trac 14, H14, H16, H18, N5.0, G-cat 5.0
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Excelent!!
Did you through away the rest of the Getaway?

MN3

Nice!
now trap out on those ...

That's on the agenda for tomorrow! Which brings up a good subject.

Sitting on the wings is NOT the same as old-fashioned trapping when the boat starts to heel. Two-up on the bench seems to have about the same effect as having a large crew member on the wire - until it gusts. You don't have the same ~20x mechanical advantage you get while pulling the top end of the mast. The original trap lines and handles are at the wrong height to use now.

During testing in 15-25 mph wind, I rigged a chicken line to the shrouds and leaned over the seats to add a little righting effort. Big difference. I expect 2 seated crew adding a little extra leverage to the mast should handle most any wind. (We usually don't double-trap anyway).

We guesstimated, and trimmed about 1 foot off the rear trap lines and reswaged them. The front set will require a little more. I'll know better after I get a chance to hike out this weekend.

Any advice on making these trap adjustments and useful wing hiking techniques would really be welcomed.

BEFORE,..


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Prindle 18
96734
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Quote

Any advice on making these trap adjustments and useful wing hiking techniques would really be welcomed.

the wing fabricator added hiking straps to the wing frame - it allows all to hike out and i am told this is also very helpful after a capsize. (i have yet to capsize with my wings) but the fabricator/owner did 1 time with his wife and kid

seems like you know what your doing on the trap wires.
i don't even put trap wires on the cat when i have wings on it but ... I can't see the need for 2 sets of traps with the wings but you may ..

enjoy!



Edited by MN3 on May 10, 2019 - 05:25 PM.

nohuhu

You don't have the same ~20x mechanical advantage you get while pulling the top end of the mast.

The effect of pulling from the top of the mast or through the wing supported by the hull is the same. The only difference is that on the wire you can stand straight and reach further back. If you were on the trap in the same position as sitting on the wing, it would be exactly the same. You can even test it by pulling the wire until you unweight your butt, there should be no effect on righting moment.



Edited by Andinista on May 10, 2019 - 05:36 PM.

MN3, that strap is just what I was thinking of adding, maybe with a quick connect clip and a small pool noodle over it for comfort.

I expect we will mostly want to hike our butts out over the wing occasionally for effect, and the straps and wires will allow us to keep both hands free for the tiller and sheets.

Or for photo shoots, I could go full gorilla and trap standing tiptoes on the wings.

Was that you on the wire in those shots?

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Prindle 18
96734
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Andinista

nohuhu

You don't have the same ~20x mechanical advantage you get while pulling the top end of the mast.

The effect of pulling from the top of the mast or through the wing supported by the hull is the same. The only difference is that on the wire you can stand straight and reach further back. If you were on the trap in the same position as sitting on the wing, it would be exactly the same. You can even test it by pulling the wire until you unweight your butt, there should be no effect on righting moment.Edited by Andinista on May 10, 2019 - 05:36 PM.

I see your point, but without footstraps (or seatbelts) and a wire you can’t leverage the full potential of the wings. You need something else to support your mass, low and away from the hull. Even MN3’s abs are not THAT strong.

Pulling on the masthound also allows me to power up the rig, while having greater control of boat balance than I would have if I just sat unsecured on the wing. In that sense, the two 2 techniques are not equal.

My next goal is to drop my tail over the comfy padded seat when needed and partially hike out, shifting my weight onto the harness and wire. Never straying too far from the cup holders...

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Prindle 18
96734
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Andinista

nohuhu

You don't have the same ~20x mechanical advantage you get while pulling the top end of the mast.

The effect of pulling from the top of the mast or through the wing supported by the hull is the same. The only difference is that on the wire you can stand straight and reach further back. If you were on the trap in the same position as sitting on the wing, it would be exactly the same. You can even test it by pulling the wire until you unweight your butt, there should be no effect on righting moment.Edited by Andinista on May 10, 2019 - 05:36 PM.

I thought about this last night ...
i was going to ask other's their opinion

the only variable i would add with a trap line is: i THINK you can add a little mast bend/sail flattening with the trap wire-masthound attachment... that would help reduce heel and would be a good thing when the need to max-hike. also something to fear think about with 2 on the wire with loads of wind

I also think: if it was me ... if it's 15-25k,
upwind i'm cracking off the traveler .. if that isn't enough to manage the boat from extreme heel - i'm furling. i can't see the need for 2 on the wire unless it's just for fun. I have been double trapped off the wings on this same boat (with skipper inboard): a dozen years ago, 2 owners ago. it was not blowing hard enough to really need it but it was fun.

Quote

MN3, that strap is just what I was thinking of adding, maybe with a quick connect clip and a small pool noodle over it for comfort.

I strongly prefer regular hiking webbing. i have been using regular webbing on boats for 45 years now, i don't want to throw in 2 versions on my cat. i also think about future non sailing crew i will have aboard and try to keep things similar for them to remember. as per quick connect. i find line completely sufficient. no need for hardware unless you have some need i don't. I have tried to set up barber haulers in my wings .. it was never perfected. i am sure it could work.

Quote

Was that you on the wire in those shots?

no - my buddy zack on his mystere

this is me on the wire on my h18 (also on video/youtube)




full disclosure: my wings are hanging in my garage for 2 years now (ever since i found cracks in my 5.5 beams 2 years ago)
the 5.5 has JUST been back in the water.

the 6.0 was/is a lot more power so no wings and no spin were needed esp solo.

the wings add too much time and difficulty with set up and much worse on breakdown with securing for the 5 mile ride home.. plus: it's weight in the wrong spots. not a lot but outside and in the back 1/2 of the boat - changes the coe and angles of the boards ... and ... and

I'll prob relaod the 5.5 with both toys soon (wings /spin)



Edited by MN3 on May 11, 2019 - 06:49 PM.

The good news for us is the boat stays parked at the beach. The wings stay on, and flip up for storage. The worse part about them (on land) is how they get in the way while loading the boat with beer and safety gear. My long arms come in handy.

We rigged simple footsteps using adjustable kayak tiedowns inside 3/4" foam insulation. Worked perfectly. They go on and off the boat in seconds.

On the water, we don't seem to be paying much of a price in performance. Wings make it so easy to shift our weight around, that our overall trim has probably improved.

It is so effortless to stand up and move around the 18-2 now that we tend to try out a lot more positions.

Some other plusses:

More comfort and less fatigue. (I don’t have to sit on a traveler or daggerboard all day, bang my knees up or tear my trunks on all the deck hardware).

Higher perspective and ease of navigation.

The waterline clearance is good - we have not dragged the leeward wing in the water yet.

Roll tacking is very effective with the skipper on the windward rear wing position.

The Trap lines worked well for both crew members, when shifting our weight out over the bench. I really felt secure leaning out with both controls in my hands on several fast runs. My crew was actually standing on the hull, ready to move his weight as needed. I skippered standing up a few times, when running downwind.

Negatives:

Getaway wings are not as light as the Nacra versions. They do add weight toward the aft half of the boat but that's only been an issue with cattrax placement so far. The new balance point is likely 1 ft aft of the dagger centerline. I'll experiment and see.

You may need to raise your cleating angles to adjust for the higher crew position.

Reaching down from the wings to gather up the lines during a tack is an unnatural position for the skipper. (Head lower that butt). The crew could help do this.

Metal wings with black tramps can get hot enough to burn, but this usually only a problem on land.

I mentioned I rarely double trap when I skipper, but it seems to be the norm around here, even on the faster winged boats. Our friends put on a clinic yesterday for us, double-trapped WAY out on their 21SE wings. It is their "go to" mode.

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Prindle 18
96734
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I used to have a Mystere 6XL, (20’ x 10’). It had a set of customized Hobie 21 wings. Made the boat almost 14’ wide. It had double traps, it’s a spooky thing to be that far out when a hull lifts. You only have the 2” pipe to balance on. Lose your footing & it’s a long fall onto the boom or boards.
I used to single hand this beast, with a tramp launched spin. The wings are great, they keep you up out of the spray, & if you were far enough to drag them in the water, you were going over anyway. In contrast my Hobie 18 Magnum will easily drag a wing in the water.
One of the few downsides is reboarding after a swim or capsize. If your not to rotound you can slide between wing & hull.
Another item, rarely mentioned, is the hiking stik. Your normal 8’ stik is not long enough once you are trapped off the wing. On my Mystere, I needed the longest FX stik made.
The photo trapped out is only a 7mph wind, the hull is just kissing the water.





Edited by Edchris177 on May 13, 2019 - 08:43 AM.

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

Good point about checking the stick. On this 8'6" beam Prindle with its closer Getaway wings, it may still reach. Sorta.

We'll probably draw straws to see who gets to trap off the back first.



Edited by nohuhu on May 13, 2019 - 01:54 PM.

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Prindle 18
96734
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Quote

Good point about checking the stick. On this 8'6" beam Prindle with its closer Getaway wings, it may still reach. Sorta.

single handed ... we stand closer to the shroud
same in light air when sitting more up front

also sheet length comes into play .. I was amazed at how much longer my jib sheets were with wings

when i first purchased my 6.0 i was overwhelmed with the amount of jib sheet it had to deal with on deck. i took off the spin mostly for deck line management ... it's a different creature when the lines aren't lying right next to you to manage them

You might enjoy seeing what happens when we got high-sided with both of us out on the wing.



We were cruising on a nice reach around 16mph, when a small whirlwind from the nearby flightline crossed our path and suddenly sucked the sails in reverse. You can’t see these devils coming, but the GoPro captured the whole thing.



I’m guessing that if I was out on the wire, trapping normally, I would have been teabagged.



Edited by nohuhu on May 14, 2019 - 05:46 PM.

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Prindle 18
96734
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Looks like a nice ride.

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1998 P18.2
Sailing out of SHBCC, NJ
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Quote

hen a small whirlwind from the nearby flightline crossed our path and suddenly sucked the sails in reverse.

pics or it never happened (or vid in this case)

we sail into wind holes around here (windage from some land feature) but we don't have whirlwind from planes to worry about...

I'll post it to youtube some day, so the meteorologists can pick at it. It was a small, rapidly moving patch of dark water on the already dark water. You can see it run into the boat from windward and WHUMP! within a second everything up was down...

Even with steady tradewinds, we do get some crazy wind events around the marine base. Often holes and sharp 90º shifts, even jet wash! There's also an area I call the Hawaiian Triangle, where the channel tides and winds converge to put everything on pause, just as you're trying to get over a big reef/marker.

It may just be the Navy testing its new Anti-Catamaran weapon system.


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Prindle 18
96734
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haha!
Go Navy

YEEHAAW!!

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Prindle 18
96734
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What kind of foam did you use for padding? How thick? How was it beld in place? Cover tension or cement?

I may pad my seats on a new-to-me Getaway.

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John

Nacra 5.0
CT
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padding helps a ton for comfort. I may end up with EVA on frame, covered by the tramp material just to have something, especially on long sails. Looking for options for some 1\2 inch to 3/4 inch, closed cell foam. And, will add soft drink holders at same time.

Following and looking...

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Chuck C
NACRA 500 Mk2
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This is Bill Roberts take on wing seats on Supercats.
"Wing seats are OK as long as you support the outer edge of the seat woth the trap wires. This way the sailors weight travels
the same path and goes directly to the pressure in the sail, same as if you were trap out without wings. Also the wing structure can be built out of lighter weight tubing with trap wire support. Now, a wing built out of lightweight Al tubing, 6061T-6 alloy, will weigh about 25 pounds each. So, you are adding around 50 pounds to the weight of the boat, That 50 pounds is there all the time. One cubic of water will support 60 pounds. If your boat weighs 50 pounds more than it did before adding wings, now every time it moves ahead one boat length the hulls must push aside almost another cubic ft of water. That is 12ins by 12ins by12ins more water must be displaced or pushed out of the way for the boat to move ahead one boat length. Adding weight doesn't come for free."



Edited by gahamby on Jun 12, 2021 - 02:51 PM.

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'82 Super Cat 15
Hull #315
Virginia
Previously owned: '70 H14, '79 H16, '68 Sailmaster 26, '85 H14T
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Touché, but the wings aren't about competition, are they? Just nice comfortable fun. Sort of like a sport sedan as opposed to a sports car.

Good info. to keep in mind for sailing dynamics though.

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Chuck C
NACRA 500 Mk2
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"Wing seats are OK as long as you support the outer edge of the seat woth(sic) the trap wires. This way the sailors weight travels
the same path and goes directly to the pressure in the sail, same as if you were trap out without wings."
This is the part of the quote I found most relevant.

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'82 Super Cat 15
Hull #315
Virginia
Previously owned: '70 H14, '79 H16, '68 Sailmaster 26, '85 H14T
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If I’m understanding the physics of load transfer correctly, that would only apply if the wings were free pivoting, supported only by the trap wires.
In order to do this, you would have to modify the wings, by removing the “leg” that goes from the wing to the outer edge of the hull.
I’m not convinced the quote is accurate. If you do a load analysis, say on the wire, yes, the wire pulls on the mast, but the entire forces get transferred to your feet, which are on the edge of the hull.
For wings,your sitting mass wants to pull the big tube upwards,
( pivoting on the smaller leg), but essentially, almost all the load gets transferred to the hull outer edge, via the support leg...in other words, the same as using trap wires to support the wing.
The trap wires are essentially taking some of the load the stays would absorb. You can see this while trapping in a lull, the stay goes slack, the trap wire taking the load.



Edited by Edchris177 on Jun 13, 2021 - 09:38 PM.

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

Gahamby,
I made wings from H17 wings for my N5.2. They just slide in the beam ends. After the first big wave with two up I found them to be too flexible and they may have yielded a little. I ended up hooking an adjustable trap wire to the front corner of the seat.
I do not like this setup as it increases the number of wires to plow thru during a pitchpole. I plan to revise my setup to be more similar to the Hobie wings and get rid of the wire.
btw, my current setup is less than 25lbs per wing. Have not measured it yet, but the comfort increase on long trips is outstanding.

--
FYC, Nacra 5.2 "Chris's Flyer" & Nacra Playcat & Farrier Tramp
Previously owned: Trac 14, H14, H16, H18, N5.0, G-cat 5.0
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Well Bill Roberts isn't around anymore to argue his point. If he was he would do so at length. The post is a direct copy and paste from his post on the Aquarius Owners Site.

https://owners.aquarius-s…ilit=Wing+seats&start=15

Page 2 post 6.

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'82 Super Cat 15
Hull #315
Virginia
Previously owned: '70 H14, '79 H16, '68 Sailmaster 26, '85 H14T
--

Any one use foam under the wing seat covers? What type and thickness?

--
John

Nacra 5.0
CT
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Quote

"Wing seats are OK as long as you support the outer edge of the seat woth(sic) the trap wires. This way the sailors weight travels
the same path and goes directly to the pressure in the sail, same as if you were trap out without wings."

Probably talking about racing and attempting to minimize the difference between stock boats

we add trap-seats (wings) for comfort and space. been done for decades sans trap wire support.