Hey all,
New member here. I have a little sailing experience. Learned in Boy Scouts back in the 70's, on a Sunfish. Did some catamaran sailing in Florida near the turn of the Millennium on a Prindle 16. This season I bought a couple of little foam lateen rigged boats - one is a Snark and the other one is of unknown manufacture, but seems a little closer to a reclaimed igloo cooler than the Snark does. I'm finding the foam boats, though fun and super convenient, are not great family boats. My wife really liked the cat sailing we did in Florida so that was her vote. I called one of my serious catamaran sailing buddies in Florida to ask for advice, and he offered to give me his old Supercat 17. I know, nothing more expensive than a free boat and all. But, sounds like the boat is complete and needs just a little work. I am sort of a project type person anyway. I've got a couple sewing machines, I made a sail for the igloo cooler, I've got a vacuum pump and some composite experience from my aerospace career. So, I'm going for it - just have to do the long drive from Northern Illinois to Southern Florida and get it. My goals for the boat are twofold: some easy cruising on light days with the family, and I'm sure my oldest and I will want to go out and scare ourselves. I'll be picking the boat up in December. My buddy is prepping the boat and trailer, and I'm rebuilding the rusty bumper and spare tire well of my 2000 Buick so I can safely bolt on a hitch.

That's my intro - more to come in the future.



Edited by waiex191 on Oct 07, 2020 - 10:21 PM.

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Bryan in Poplar Grove, IL
Supercat 17, unknown year. Future project
Hobie 16, 1977 - died a spectacular death https://youtu.be/Y7O22bp2MVA
Hobie 16, 1978 - current boat
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I've put a picture in my album and here is my shot at posting it:


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Bryan in Poplar Grove, IL
Supercat 17, unknown year. Future project
Hobie 16, 1977 - died a spectacular death https://youtu.be/Y7O22bp2MVA
Hobie 16, 1978 - current boat
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You should get some sailing in while you are down there. Sounds like there are some free lessons to be had with an experienced cat sailor to boot.

Enjoy the boat ... it is great fun.

--
dk

Blade F-16
Hobie 14
Corsair F-242
Mirage 25 (Sold)
Hobie Tiger (Sold)
Hobie Tiger (Sold)
TomCat 6.2 (Sold)
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Thanks! Not sure we will have time on this trip, but we will see. One of my retired former coworkers is an avid sailor and I we took his Capri 14.2 out this week. It was good experience sailing as a team and also running the jib. He has sailed cats before but I don't think he is the guy to go to. There are a couple of guys I've met at my local lake who sail cats there. I'll get to know them better.

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Bryan in Poplar Grove, IL
Supercat 17, unknown year. Future project
Hobie 16, 1977 - died a spectacular death https://youtu.be/Y7O22bp2MVA
Hobie 16, 1978 - current boat
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Good luck
They are great boats, and once you get past the VERY Heavy mast, the rest is a breeze - pun intended.
I love my 15

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Supercat 15
Windrider 17
Several Sunfish and Sunfish clones
Ratboat built from Zuma and Sunfish parts
Shallow water sailor in the Delaware Bay
--

https://owners.aquarius-sail.com/phpbb3/
Welcome, If you don't already have it here's the SC owners forum.



Edited by gahamby on Oct 08, 2020 - 12:42 PM.

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'82 Super Cat 15
Hull #315
Virginia
Previously owned: '70 H14, '79 H16, '68 Sailmaster 26, '85 H14T
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Thanks all, and no I hadn't found the SC owner's forum.

The current owner had bought materials for a gin pole to raise the mast. That will come with the boat.

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Bryan in Poplar Grove, IL
Supercat 17, unknown year. Future project
Hobie 16, 1977 - died a spectacular death https://youtu.be/Y7O22bp2MVA
Hobie 16, 1978 - current boat
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That gin pole will come in handy.
Aquarius has been great for me and I have learned quite a bit on the owners forum.
Have purchased NOS sails, both job and main, as well as many smaller components and rigging.
Always had great experience with the folks at Aquarius

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Supercat 15
Windrider 17
Several Sunfish and Sunfish clones
Ratboat built from Zuma and Sunfish parts
Shallow water sailor in the Delaware Bay
--

My buddy has gotten new wheels, tires, and bearings on the trailer. I'll be keeping the old ones as spares. I plan to leave in a little over a week.


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Bryan in Poplar Grove, IL
Supercat 17, unknown year. Future project
Hobie 16, 1977 - died a spectacular death https://youtu.be/Y7O22bp2MVA
Hobie 16, 1978 - current boat
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Very nice. Looks like a good score with the galvanized trailer, beach wheels, and cat box.

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Pete Knapp
Schodack landing,NY
Goodall Viper,AHPC Viper,Nacra I20
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pknapp66

Very nice. Looks like a good score with the galvanized trailer, beach wheels, and cat box.

Thanks. It was a project that he was sharing with a friend and co-worker. Unfortunately the co-worker died in a plane crash and he lost his enthusiasm. Along the way they rebuilt the trailer as it had rust issues, and it has not seen water since the rebuild. The stays are in poor shape and he is afraid to rig it. He has all the cables and thimbles, I just need to refabricate them. The purpose of the hobby is to collect tools so I'll be buying a swaging tool.

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Bryan in Poplar Grove, IL
Supercat 17, unknown year. Future project
Hobie 16, 1977 - died a spectacular death https://youtu.be/Y7O22bp2MVA
Hobie 16, 1978 - current boat
--

Swaging 1x19 SS wire rope is a bitch!

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'82 Super Cat 15
Hull #315
Virginia
Previously owned: '70 H14, '79 H16, '68 Sailmaster 26, '85 H14T
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gahamby

Swaging 1x19 SS wire rope is a bitch!

I take it you have done it before then. What is hard about it?

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Bryan in Poplar Grove, IL
Supercat 17, unknown year. Future project
Hobie 16, 1977 - died a spectacular death https://youtu.be/Y7O22bp2MVA
Hobie 16, 1978 - current boat
--

Yup! Feel your pain. 2 tips:
1) Get GOOD, real wire rope cutters. Not "cable cutters", which are designed for copper, but these: https://channellock.com/product/910/ This makes the absolute best difference, because the jaws are the right kind of steel and cut the cable very, very clean. The ones in Home Depot only last so long; like MAYBE half a dozen cuts.
2) Get another hand or 2 to get the thimble to stay snugged up while you swage the cable. Best with 2 people, but i've rigged up a vice to work reasonably well and just pinched the end with pliers to hold the wire in place, then get the swage tool and crimp once it's pinched lightly and holding. Follow up with a gauge. The first ferrule is the holding crimp, the second is to keep the cable from fraying so much (and adds a little back-up), so space accordingly. There are some really, really good videos out there; mostly from theatrical groups that do this...

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Chuck C
NACRA 500 Mk2
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Thanks Chuck! Over in the aircraft community nicopress is the tool of choice for control cables. What do sailors use?

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Bryan in Poplar Grove, IL
Supercat 17, unknown year. Future project
Hobie 16, 1977 - died a spectacular death https://youtu.be/Y7O22bp2MVA
Hobie 16, 1978 - current boat
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For me, it depends... If it's standing rigging, I just go to my local rigging shop and have the roller swage top end stuff. Mostly because it's safer and known to last for critical loads, but it's nice that there are also zero sharp edges up high. By going to a great shop and getting high quality, 516 stainless and good fittings, I figure I'll get at least 3 years minimum, and likely much longer since I power wash my boat and hardware down with soap and water after each session.

For other applications, I have one LIKE the nicopress, but don't know the brand or exactly when I came into it. The sleeves are always nicopress as is the gauge. But, I'm only doing trap wires and misc. gin pole guide wires, etc. on the boat. Once you get the tools and find out how well this works, you end up doing bench swings, etc.

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Chuck C
NACRA 500 Mk2
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Compared to 7x19 wire rope 1x19 is really stiff. What the other posters said just about covers it.
When I made new standing rigging for my SC15 I borrowed Felco wire rope cutters and an actual Nicopress crimper from the opera company I was working for. The real tools make all the difference. I made a "U" shaped jig that I could push the wire rope and thimble into. I too went with two sleeves per end.

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'82 Super Cat 15
Hull #315
Virginia
Previously owned: '70 H14, '79 H16, '68 Sailmaster 26, '85 H14T
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What is standing rigging? Is that the same as the stays? I'm new to this and don't know all the terms.

I do have an advantage that I'll be sailing in fresh water and the cat will live in dry storage when I'm not sailing it.

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Bryan in Poplar Grove, IL
Supercat 17, unknown year. Future project
Hobie 16, 1977 - died a spectacular death https://youtu.be/Y7O22bp2MVA
Hobie 16, 1978 - current boat
--

Yes, Standing rigging is the forstay, bridle, and shrouds (side stays). Running rigging is the sheets, halyards, traveler control lines. I guess the trapeze wires are somewhere in between.
No matter the environment the boat is in, use the best stainless steel you can afford for the rigging. Rust never sleeps.
You also might want to sell the boat. Non stainless rigging components would be a liability.
Tom Haberman at Aquarius will sell you a complete rigging package. Yeah it will cost you but it will be righteous.
If I was to replace my standing rigging today I would probably go that route.

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'82 Super Cat 15
Hull #315
Virginia
Previously owned: '70 H14, '79 H16, '68 Sailmaster 26, '85 H14T
--

My trip is delayed. My oldest has come down with some symptoms. Bummer.

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Bryan in Poplar Grove, IL
Supercat 17, unknown year. Future project
Hobie 16, 1977 - died a spectacular death https://youtu.be/Y7O22bp2MVA
Hobie 16, 1978 - current boat
--

Quote

Yes, Standing rigging is the forstay, bridle, and shrouds (side stays). Running rigging is the sheets, halyards, traveler control lines. I guess the trapeze wires are somewhere in between.

Yea, i don't know what to call that.. more like a swing line (or catapult) than sailing hardware

good write up on the difference in rigging - https://www.boatsnews.com…ing-whats-the-difference

Quote

Yes, Standing rigging is the forstay, bridle, and shrouds (side stays). Running rigging is the sheets, halyards, traveler control lines. I guess the trapeze wires are somewhere in between.

Yea, i don't know what to call that.. more like a swing line (or catapult) than sailing hardware

good write up on the difference in rigging - https://www.boatsnews.com…ing-whats-the-difference

I'm no longer a future owner. About halfway home as I post this. I'm missing all the snow back home.
https://www.thebeachcats.…173&g2_imageViewsIndex=1

I'm having issues embedding the picture. It's in my album at the link above.



Edited by waiex191 on Jan 01, 2021 - 08:01 AM.

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Bryan in Poplar Grove, IL
Supercat 17, unknown year. Future project
Hobie 16, 1977 - died a spectacular death https://youtu.be/Y7O22bp2MVA
Hobie 16, 1978 - current boat
--

Quote

I'm having issues embedding the picture. It's in my album at the link above.

Quote

I'm no longer a future owner. About halfway home as I post this. I'm missing all the snow back home.

Congrats!

Made it all the way home. We drove about 3000 miles in total, and each major leg (Illinois->Florida and back) was about 1450 miles. This was in a 2000 Buick Century we bought for my youngest son for $200 a little over a year ago. It got about 30 mpg on the way down, and ranged from 15-18 MPG on the way back with the boat. The 18 MPG was on the flat, warm roads in the south and the 15 MPG was on the hills of Tennessee and Kentucky. Though I am tempted to dive into the project now, I actually need to finish building my airplane. Here is a picture of the beachcat in its new home. We had to really clean, and organize the hangar to make space.


This beachcat was owned by a former Sikorsky co-worker of mine, Rene St. Julien. He passed away in an airplane crash a few years ago. This SC17 used to live on the beach and Rene sailed it a lot. He sold it to a young Sikorsky engineer, who then sold it to another Sikorsky engineer. After some years it was given back to Rene and he entered into a partnership with my other former coworker Rod Condon. Rod was a neighbor and friend of Bill Roberts, who designed the Supercats. He had lost his motivation for the project after Rene passed. When I called him looking for advice on buying a catamaran, he offered to give it to me. I just had to come and get it. We stayed at Rod's house when we were down there to get the boat.

The boat needs some work. The bridle fittings show some rust and one of them is cracked. Rene had used small cable and what appears to be AN aircraft fittings like we use for control cables on aircraft. He was serious about weight control and racing. Rod had bought replacement wire rope of a heavier gauge, and has all the thimbles and eyes. I'll be buying a swage tool and making all new standing rigging. The bow sprit (or whatever it actually is called) has a fitting that rivets onto the forward crossbeam. There is corrosion underneath it and the two bottom rivets have failed. The mainsail needs some repairs of the batten pockets and some new plastic batten protectors. Probably some other things too. I intend to repair the mainsail for the first season. The blocks that hold the beams to the hulls are corroded on the outside. I am not sure if I want to pull them off and address all that or let it go for now. There are some dings on the hulls from the lawnmower and some previous repairs. I am not going to worry about cosmetics, I am more interested in sailing. The trampoline is pretty new and has been stored inside. I haven't actually seen it yet but Rod says it is very nice. Rod gave me a lot of spare parts including a rudder.

The one thing I am going to tackle before I finish the airplane is getting the boat and trailer registered. From what I read on the Illinois website I may be in for a challenge due to the fact the boat never needed to be registered in Florida.

The only catamaran sailing I've done was back in 2000, before kids. I was in Florida and the place to go was the Stuart Causeway. I actually saw this boat sail back then, as Rod and Rene came out for one of our group outings. We were sailing a Prindle 16 that Rod used to own but had been sold to another couple of Sikorsky guys when he bought a Supercat 22. There was also a Hobie 16 and one other boat that I don't remember.

So, it was an epic trip, and so far I've got about $550 into my free boat, of which $300 is gas. Another $150 was for new wheels & tires on the trailer, plus bearings. The remaining was costs for rebuilding the trunk and bumper of the Buick, plus putting a hitch and plug on the back.

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Bryan in Poplar Grove, IL
Supercat 17, unknown year. Future project
Hobie 16, 1977 - died a spectacular death https://youtu.be/Y7O22bp2MVA
Hobie 16, 1978 - current boat
--

gahamby

Yes, Standing rigging is the forstay, bridle, and shrouds (side stays). Running rigging is the sheets, halyards, traveler control lines. I guess the trapeze wires are somewhere in between.
No matter the environment the boat is in, use the best stainless steel you can afford for the rigging. Rust never sleeps.
You also might want to sell the boat. Non stainless rigging components would be a liability.
Tom Haberman at Aquarius will sell you a complete rigging package. Yeah it will cost you but it will be righteous.
If I was to replace my standing rigging today I would probably go that route.

I second buying the package direct from RC/Aquarious. Tom Haberman is probably one of the nicest and most knowledgeable people in beachcat sailing. He has helped me on several projects and in every case the knowledge I gained working with him was more valuable than the actual project itself. Just PM me if you need his contact info or email him through the Aquarious/RC website which I see you are all ready on.

Congrats on your SC!

Brad in Jax
Stiletto 27 x2 (one for sale soon)

My Supercat 17 is now registered. I've got a quote from Aquarius for new standing rigging. 2022 will be the year of the Supercat.

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Bryan in Poplar Grove, IL
Supercat 17, unknown year. Future project
Hobie 16, 1977 - died a spectacular death https://youtu.be/Y7O22bp2MVA
Hobie 16, 1978 - current boat
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You did good on that one, it has a self tacking jib! I have redone a couple SC 17's and 20's, I love the 17. The last one I built I went with the self tacking jib, I ordered all of it from Tom at Aquarius as a kit. Saved me a ton of head scratching. As mentioned above, their customer service is unmatched. He walked me through 3 major builds.

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Mac
Midlands South Carolina
AHPC Viper USA 366
A Cat USA 366
Super Cat 17
--

To dissmiss synthetic rigging on a small beachcat, shows unwillingness to adjust to the modern world. Using materials like DM20 makes it easy for us amateurs to go like the pro´s.

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Brgds
Lars

Frankentri 5.8/5.5/Inter20
Aerow trimaran foiler

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1192604934176635
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revintage

To dissmiss synthetic rigging on a small beachcat, shows unwillingness to adjust to the modern world. Using materials like DM20 makes it easy for us amateurs to go like the pro´s.

The main thing I'm dismissing is fabrication work. I need to do less of that and more sailing. If I'm working on stuff it should be the airplane.

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Bryan in Poplar Grove, IL
Supercat 17, unknown year. Future project
Hobie 16, 1977 - died a spectacular death https://youtu.be/Y7O22bp2MVA
Hobie 16, 1978 - current boat
--

Is there more or less fabrication work, whether you use stainless or synthetic ? Still nice, that you are keeping this boat on the water. Is it totally original with wire main traveler or with traveler track?

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Brgds
Lars

Frankentri 5.8/5.5/Inter20
Aerow trimaran foiler

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1192604934176635
--

I think his point is that you can buy the standing rigging complete, off-the-shelf with no fabrication, but only installation. Synthetic requires fabrication if not readily available off-the-shelf. Merits of one over the other after install notwithstanding. Heck, in the end we SHOULD all at least be proficient with braiding lines, however with demands of time, that isn't going to happen.

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Chuck C
NACRA 500 Mk2
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revintage

Is there more or less fabrication work, whether you use stainless or synthetic ? Still nice, that you are keeping this boat on the water. Is it totally original with wire main traveler or with traveler track?

Like Chuck said, this will make it just an installation job. I am not sure if it has a wire traveler or a track. When I got the boat I knew nothing about cats. It's been buried in the hangar for a year.

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Bryan in Poplar Grove, IL
Supercat 17, unknown year. Future project
Hobie 16, 1977 - died a spectacular death https://youtu.be/Y7O22bp2MVA
Hobie 16, 1978 - current boat
--

Quote

When I got the boat I knew nothing about cats. It's been buried in the hangar for a year.

you have had a crash course!

waiex191

I am not sure if it has a wire traveler or a track.

If you have the wire traveler, I would really appreciate some images when setup. I am into a project where this system would work. Have searched the web and have saved a few images, but none of them tells it all. If it has a wire traveler you will find a wire from end to end of the rear beam and no track, like in this image:



Have you visited this brasilian SC17 FB-group: https://www.facebook.com/supercat17



Edited by revintage on Jan 29, 2022 - 09:50 AM.

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Brgds
Lars

Frankentri 5.8/5.5/Inter20
Aerow trimaran foiler

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1192604934176635
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revintage

If you have the wire traveler, I would really appreciate some images when setup.

How is this? The line was being used to secure the boat for its trip from Florida, but I put it on the way I think it goes.

revintage

Have you visited this brasilian SC17 FB-group: https://www.facebook.com/supercat17

Nope, I'm not on facebook.

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Bryan in Poplar Grove, IL
Supercat 17, unknown year. Future project
Hobie 16, 1977 - died a spectacular death https://youtu.be/Y7O22bp2MVA
Hobie 16, 1978 - current boat
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waiex191

How is this? The line was being used to secure the boat for its trip from Florida, but I put it on the way I think it goes.

Nope, I'm not on facebook.

That´s the one! You put it absolutely right. Do you mind measuring the slack, ie measure from beam to wire in the center where the traveler trim is? Keep it and try it out, even if lots of users modify their boats.

I will try a slightly modified version on my Trimaran2023-project (Tornado center hull with Nacra 5.5 akas).

Don´t mind the force calculations, must double check. Will use it with 9:1 for the F18 main.


To bad you are not on FB, as you miss the good sailing/multihull groups. No need to use it for social media, just go for the groups and block everything else .

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Brgds
Lars

Frankentri 5.8/5.5/Inter20
Aerow trimaran foiler

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1192604934176635
--

Good to see that in other contries the Supercat is still sailing. I am from Brazil and here we produced it up to 90's. I have a very conseverd one... and I sail against the HC16.... almost of them I win.

This traveller is a very good system / price. if you need more details, ask me and we can make a video call to explain to you how it works.

Also, I am searching a top square main sail, do you know some one who has a good one to sell?

my e-mail rtobioclaro@gmail.com

whatsapp +55 71 999689437

Good to see that in other contries the Supercat 17 is still sailing. I am from Brazil and here we produced it up to 90's. I have a very conseverd one... and I sail against the HC16.... almost of them I win.

This traveller is a very good system / price. if you need more details, ask me and we can make a video call to explain to you how it works.

Also, I am searching a top square main sail, do you know some one who has a good one to sell?

my e-mail rtobioclaro@gmail.com

whatsapp +55 71 999689437

Good to see that in other contries the Supercat 17 is still sailing. I am from Brazil and here we produced it up to 90's. I have a very conseverd one... and I sail against the HC16.... almost of them I win.

This traveller is a very good system / price. if you need more details, ask me and we can make a video call to explain to you how it works.

Also, I am searching a top square main sail, do you know some one who has a good one to sell?

rtobioclaro@gmail.com

whatsapp +55 71 999689437

We stepped the mast for the first time today. My new bridles were not quite right. I think it's possible I didn't explain my rig well enough to Tom Haberman at Aquarius. I've got an inquiry into him. Still, it was cool.


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Bryan in Poplar Grove, IL
Supercat 17, unknown year. Future project
Hobie 16, 1977 - died a spectacular death https://youtu.be/Y7O22bp2MVA
Hobie 16, 1978 - current boat
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Yeah, that's raked way back and I see the shroud extenders are hanging.

Is that a gin pole or spin sprit?

SC19

Yeah, that's raked way back and I see the shroud extenders are hanging.

Is that a gin pole or spin sprit?

No gin pole, so I'm not sure. I've learned the H16 but I have very little knowledge of the Supercat.

Do the shroud extenders make these things unnecessary?


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Bryan in Poplar Grove, IL
Supercat 17, unknown year. Future project
Hobie 16, 1977 - died a spectacular death https://youtu.be/Y7O22bp2MVA
Hobie 16, 1978 - current boat
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Not sure I understand the question, so forgive me if butting in here I get this wrong. You need the chain plate quick disconnects to pop open the connection, allowing the shrouds to lengthen, thereby allowing the boat to be righted much easier. Mine has a Hyfield lever setup I installed, copying Aquarius' later designs. I think a bunch of cats might use them, don't know which. Theoretically, when you pull the pin, the shroud lengthens allowing the high hull to rotate to or past vertical allowing your weight to finish the job. As a side benefit, with the levers,no can very easily change the tension on my rig and/or adjust the rake.

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Chuck C
NACRA 500 Mk2
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Quote

Is that a gin pole or spin sprit?

Neither
a gin pole typically isn't a fixed spar
a bow sprit would need to extend past the bows

I have a friend who has the same gear on his cat - has a front tramp too
I believe it is just to make the bows and forestay more rigid but not 100% certain that is it's only purpose

That spar(s) is to allow for a larger jib to be fixed at a lower point. You can see the compression post inline with the forestay. My buddy had one on his modified P19. Its an easy way to add a lot of sail up front, but also blocks your view.

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FYC, Nacra 5.2 "Chris's Flyer" & Nacra Playcat & Farrier Tramp
Previously owned: Trac 14, H14, H16, H18, N5.0, G-cat 5.0
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Sorry - looking closer, it looks like your picture does show levers under the blue tape. I'd keep the setup that way and see if you can't remove a little rake somehow.

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Chuck C
NACRA 500 Mk2
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"You need the chain plate quick disconnects to pop open the connection, allowing the shrouds to lengthen, thereby allowing the boat to be righted much easier.".....but your missing the wire and spring that slips when using the Hyfield lever...........to right your boat.....

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Bill 404 21SE
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oh yeah... All you're going to get out of that is the extra length of the lever. You Need some pics...

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Chuck C
NACRA 500 Mk2
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It is possible that the previous owner was using those levers to tension the rig, although high rig tension should not be necessary.
the boat was designed for 5 degrees mast rake. If you make the bridle wires too short you will need a bar between the hulls up forward. The stock length bridles and a stock length forestay is probably your best bet. You could sell those levers and save some weight. hope this helps.

I've been talking with Tom Haberman. The guy who used to own this was friends/neighbors with Bill Roberts. It appears there are ARC-17 mods done to it. So I think the stays are correct but the bridles and forestay/jib halyard are wrong. I've got to do some measurements for Tom. I'll let you guys know how it turns out.

This boat has been owned by Sikorsky people since the '80s. Sikorsky and P&W were part of the same corporation and they shared facilities in West Palm Beach, Florida. Bill worked at P&W.

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Bryan in Poplar Grove, IL
Supercat 17, unknown year. Future project
Hobie 16, 1977 - died a spectacular death https://youtu.be/Y7O22bp2MVA
Hobie 16, 1978 - current boat
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