I must not be doing this correctly.
I have hog tied a bungee to the rudder hole and then fed bungee back through rudder tube.
It takes a huge force to pull rudders erect by hand.

Is one suppose to hog tie a loop at the correct place(setting wanted when rudder tie down rope is fully released) and secure using the pin for the pivmatic while under tension?

Sorry to ask the question again, but I am not clear on this process. It seems the rudder tie down could snap the bungee when pulling the rudders down with the rope.

Go back & look at the photo I’ve posted re rigging the rudders in the album. There is no hog ring at the rudder hole...rig it as shown!
The bungee is preloaded. Pulling the rudders down creates more tension in the bungee. If you are using proper bungee, they are not going to snap, mine never have...in 10 years.
That extra tension is what raises the rudders when you release the “down line”.

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

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Is one suppose to hog tie a loop at the correct place(setting wanted when rudder tie down rope is fully released) and secure using the pin for the pivmatic while under tension?

That is exactly what I described previously. To reiterate,
Feed the bungee through the rudder.
Push one end through the tube, & secure with vice grip.
Push other end through rudder tube. Grab both bungees & stretch to desired result, then stretch a bit more...the distance from the end of the tiller tubes to the pin that will hold the bungee. Obviously, one bungee will be above the pine, the other below.
It really is much easier to do that type.

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

So the bungee is a big loop?
My original was hog tied at both ends.
Only one stand went through the rudder tube
Do you have two stands going through the tube?

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So the bungee is a big loop?

Yes.
The bungee near the rudder blade only serves to keep the two together, otherwise they would chafe on the end of the tiller tube. You could simply wrap whipping line around. It’s shown in this photo in my 5.7 album
https://www.thebeachcats.…562&g2_imageViewsIndex=1

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Do you have two stands going through the tube?

Yes, as per the several photos I’ve sent you. See photo linked above.

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

Thank you so much Ed.
If one had the exact size of the loop needed for desired rudder position on release then you would not even need the vice grips.
Could one just pull out the bungee with a string to insert the pin through the arm and through the loop when they align and then release the string?

Is there suppose to be a bushing (tube)inside the arm that the pin goes through and secures the loop of the bungee ?
I assume you wedge it into the bungee loop and push the pin in when it aligns while releasing tension on the bungee.

BTW What is that sock looking thing where the bungee goes through your rudder?

It is impossible to give an exact size. Every bungee made has different stretch characteristics.
There is no bushing...look again at the photo, it’s held by the 1/4” bolt that secures the tiller tie bar.

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

It is impossible to give an exact size. Every bungee made has different stretch characteristics.
There is no bushing...look again at the photo, it’s held by the 1/4” bolt that secures the tiller tie bar.

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

Hello,
Which pin should I use to hold the bungee after making hog tie?

I thought I'd grab a couple pictures of my mast halyard to show what I do. In the image below are two bungee cords. One runs along the front crossbar and is held up by the halyard bungee extending from the eye on the mast, around the horizontal bungee and back up to the halyard. This creates an inverted V that keeps the jib sheets from tangling on the mast, and of course secures the wire halyard.



This is the rudder and tiller arrangement. Unfortunately not much is visible of the top of the tiller bar. The pin that inserts horizontally into the tiller arm holds the top of the bungee inside. On my boat that is a stainless steel bolt with lock nut applied to the threads on the outside of the tiller arm. When I replace the bungee, I pull hard on the the two bungee lines coming from the rudder so it raises the rudder, insert the pin between the cords and use a stainless hog ring that holds the joined bungee against that bolt. On mine, there is a U-shaped stainless steel retainer that limits the travel in the tiller arm. The blue line is an uphaul that holds the rudder in the up-position and gives more life to the bungee. The downhaul attaches to the rudder with a figure-8 knot and routes over the pin in the rudder gudgeon and cleats to a quick-release on the tiller arm.





Edited by tominpa on Aug 30, 2021 - 11:26 AM.

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Tom
NACRA 5.7 (1984 Sail 181)
Pennsylvania
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Thanks for the images tominpa
That eye is pretty high on the mast I am not going to be able to do that.

I guess I can use the horizontal or vertical pin.
But if I use the vertical pin I can never take off the tie connector without re-stretching the bungee
to put it back on.

I assume you always leave your u-bolt attached to your rudder bar?

Is that your jib halyard running down the mast?
Do you have a rolling furler?

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But if I use the vertical pin I can never take off the tie connector without re-stretching the bungee
to put it back on

I can’t think of any reason to take it apart, until the bungee wears out. We remove the entire rudder assembly as one piece. Both blades, castings & tie bar, only the hiking stick comes off, & even that is not truly required.
The blades fold in, it’s easy to carry, & you don’t lose anything,



Edited by Edchris177 on Aug 30, 2021 - 09:52 PM.

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

Quote

One runs along the front crossbar and is held up by the halyard bungee extending from the eye on the mast

Tom, it requires less bungee if you simply run your preventer from the V-brace-around the mast- across to the other end of V-brace. Run it behind the termination of your Diamond wires, around the front of the mast, the back behind the other Diamond wire. The Diamond wires hold it in place.
Then you only need an 8” bit of bungee to hold your halyard. Stopper knot it on the eye, then a clip like you have.
If this halyard holder bungee fails, you will lose your jib sheet preventer too.

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

Quote

Thanks for the images tominpa
That eye is pretty high on the mast I am not going to be able to do that.

Your mainsail halyard must not be factory. It should be the same as what Toms photo shows. See the small loop, at the end of the wire?
It is above that eye in the mast. If it comes to the eye, or below, it is too long.You only need about 8” of bungee. Dead end it on the eye, then attach one of those bungee clips to the other end.
After raising the sail, clip the bungee to the end of the wire portion, coil & stow the extra line in the tramp pocket.

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

rungi

Is that your jib halyard running down the mast?
Do you have a rolling furler?

I don't have a roller furler on this boat, and the jib halyard is terminated with small block that is siezed by a line coming from an eye on the mast and cleated through a clamcleat on the mast. If I were to add a furler, I would have to remove that small block and attach the jib halyard through the jib zipper to the front stays. A furler would be a really nice addition.

Ed, thanks for the tip on the preventer and halyard bungee. My preventers are attached under the crossbars on an eyelet that supports a righting system. It's easy to rig and take apart when I need to take the mast up or down, and the halyard bungee just moves from the halyard to the eye in the mast. Don't see the disadvantage of using 2-feet of bungee instead of 8", but never thought of it before.

This is my version of furling. Not ideal.



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Tom
NACRA 5.7 (1984 Sail 181)
Pennsylvania
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Your mainsail halyard must not be factory.

My mainsail halyard is the same

The mast has the eye in a lower position
I do not know the purpose of the angled cleat or the pulley on the very bottom of the mast.
Any ideas?

I could run my mainsail halyard line into the cleat and avoid using a bungee.
Not sure if that is what it is for.

Thanks for the comments I am still waiting for those trim screws and thinking about also gluing some padding to the gudgeon. The rudders come down very (drop free fall ) fast.

The bungee is not effective at slowly letting the rudders down.

Your mast has seen several modifications over the years, as evidenced by all the rivets that are plugging holes where various fittings were previously attached.
Don’t run your main halyard into the cleat, you would have to feed the end in each time, as it’s a “captive line” cleat, just use a bungee from the eye that is in front of the cleat, as previously advised.
The cheek block & “eye” at the bottom is factory. It’s to gain purchase in tensioning the mainsail. Yours is rigged wrong, your cleat is digging into the mast. Ditch the block you have at the sail cringle, use the one put on the mast for that purpose...make it look like mine.
Pay close attention to the “hook”, where it drops into the sail cringle, it needs to be twisted 90* (or be on a swivel), to fit properly...otherwise it will wear against the sail.
Notice the eye & cleat in my photo, that is the factory setup for jib tension.
Again, look at the photos in my album, & the factory manuals. (Photo 34a). Both assembly manuals are on this site, under Photo Album Technical.

Factory manual, Rigging- item 29 explains the cleat & eye about a foot up from mast base. Notice your cleat has been changed, the original cleat is removed & holes plugged with rivets. Reference photo 34a. You don’t use these with roller furling.
https://www.slosailandcan…al/Nacra-manual-1985.pdf
https://www.thebeachcats.…ictures?g2_itemId=119565
You don’t need rudder padding, the delrin screw is what will stop the rudder. In 36 years my blades are damage free.



Edited by Edchris177 on Sep 01, 2021 - 05:34 AM.

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

Do you have a picture where your mainsail up so and you can see how it is hooked on the sail crinkle.
Not sure what block your saying to ditch.

On you boat is the upper block attached to the mast?
It looks like you have it hooked to the diamond wires

On my boat the block with the hook in the sail crinkle can swivel.