Where is the bests place to attach a winch to pull a catamaran?

I was using dolphin striker rod. Is this strong enough? It is used to right the boat all the wind power propels the boat from this rod, but I don't want to bend it at all or change the tension of the v bar. I just replaced it today because it was slightly bent by the pin when lowering the mast too far before removing pin.

The main beam is difficult to pull from because the trampoline get in the way. I need 2 attachment points o pull it straight onto a trailer or up a steep beach.

Trailer it backwards and you can use a bridle on the rear beam.

--
Bill Townsend
G-Cat 5.0
Sarasota
--

Why not attach the winch to your launching trolly?

--
Brgds
Lars

Frankentri 5.8/5.5/Inter20
Aerow trimaran foiler

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1192604934176635
--

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I was using dolphin striker rod. Is this strong enough?

Do NOT do that.

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all the wind power propels the boat from this rod,

Yes, & no. The rod serves two purposes. From an engineering standpoint, (load analysis), it serves mainly to prevent the main beam from breaking. In combination with the V brace, it makes a truss, which is much stronger than the beam itself.
The short section with the ball serves to keep the mast off the beam, & yes, it does transmit SOME of wind forces, but most of the wind force is borne by the shrouds/stay.
Winching up steep beach via the DS is just dumb. Your ad states “Beach Wheels”, use them. Get them
under the hulls, (about the shroud anchor points is neutral balance), then attach winch to the wheels axles, near the wheels.
If you have to move that cat, remove the rudders & the mast 1st. That reduces the weight substantially, & face it, for whatever reason you are moving it, those parts have to come off anyway.



Edited by Edchris177 on Oct 24, 2021 - 05:51 PM.

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

I never remove the rudders. That is too much extra work. They pop up and are not a problem. They would also have to be removed together due to the pivmatic system. The mast is let down when I get the boat on the trailer. It is too difficult to move the boat with the mast down and I don't want to make and extra trip to get the mast. I leave all the rigging attached except forestay. When putting the boat on to the trailer do you just recommend pushing it on.(this can be done but if it is steep it is much easier to winch the boat onto the trailer) I had been getting the bow on to the trailer rollers, backing up the car a little to raise off the beach wheels, then removing the cat trax and winching boat onto trailer while mast is still up. Is the the front beam a safe place to attach a rope to pull the boat up?

rungi

I never remove the rudders. That is too much extra work. They pop up and are not a problem. They would also have to be removed together due to the pivmatic system. The mast is let down when I get the boat on the trailer. It is too difficult to move the boat with the mast down and I don't want to make and extra trip to get the mast. I leave all the rigging attached except forestay. When putting the boat on to the trailer do you just recommend pushing it on.(this can be done but if it is steep it is much easier to winch the boat onto the trailer) I had been getting the bow on to the trailer rollers, backing up the car a little to raise off the beach wheels, then removing the cat trax and winching boat onto trailer while mast is still up. Is the the front beam a safe place to attach a rope to pull the boat up?

As a newer sailor, I’ll respectfully tell you that’s an incredibly bad idea. If a rudder drops while trailering and you damage or snap it, you’ll be trying to replace an expensive part. Take the whole assembly off.

Here’s your end of day sequence:

1. Drop main.
2. Get beach wheels under boat.
3. Roll oat up to trailer.
4. Winch boat on trailer.
5. Tie down boat.
6. Lower mast.

--
Dana, Holly, Emma & Hannah

LJ/Stu's Dart 18 (Sold! :( )
--

those are the steps i use but i never would take the rudders off
that crazy to me. i would take off if taking a long trip. i do tie them up before driving.
they cant hit the ground even if bungee failed.

i also drop the jib. the roller furling is not as cool for the trailering people.

We're suffering some subject drift here, but wrt the rudders, taking them off for trailering is nothing but a waste of time.

I've put countless thousands of highway miles on cats, and the right answer is to secure them so they can't drop on the road, period.

--
Southern Alberta and all over the damn place.
*
1981 SuperCat 20 "Roberts' Rockets"
1983 SuperCat 19
TriFoiler #23 "Unfair Advantage"
Mystere 17
Unicorn A-Class (probably made by Trowbridge) that I couldn't resist rescuing at auction.
H18 & Zygal (classic) Tornado - stolen and destroyed - very unpleasant story.
Invitation and Mistral and Sunflower and windsurfers w/ Harken hydrofoils and god knows what else...
--

I agree with Jonathan. I have trailered my 5.7 nearly coast to coast with the rudders attached, but secured.

To avoid a very expensive repair, never pull your boat by the dolphin rod. It has no strength in the fore/aft direction, and is there to support the front beam and mast in conjunction with the brace. So it is strong vertically, but can be bent in the forward direction too easily. You can secure a line under the mast ball and the top of the DS against the beam and will have minimal risk damage.

Beach wheels are your friend. I spent many years hauling my cat up on a beach without them, and had to re-glass the skeg. They make everything easier, including loading to the trailer.

--
Tom
NACRA 5.7 (1984 Sail 181)
Pennsylvania
--

I do not agree that is has no strength in the fore aft direction. otherwise a windy day would be dangerous.
but pulling it from a certain positions could damage it. I am not sure.
It would be interesting experiment to lift the entire boat from various places on the dolphin striker rod after all the nacra 5.7 weighs 360 pounds should be able to easily support that load. if not the rod should be thicker in my opinion and is an easily correctable engineering mistake.
If one hang weights from rods, which is common, how much weight is actually required to bend the rod from the center point. It is an interesting question. and can be proved experimentally and most likely well known by any metal manufacturing company.

clearly the mast lever can bend it if the pin is not removed

rungi

I do not agree that is has no strength in the fore aft direction. otherwise a windy day would be dangerous.
but pulling it from a certain positions could damage it. I am not sure.
It would be interesting experiment to lift the entire boat from various places on the dolphin striker rod after all the nacra 5.7 weighs 360 pounds should be able to easily support that load. if not the rod should be thicker in my opinion and is an easily correctable engineering mistake.
If one hang weights from rods, which is common, how much weight is actually required to bend the rod from the center point. It is an interesting question. and can be proved experimentally and most likely well known by any metal manufacturing company.

This is an extremely dumb argument. Edchris177 is 100% correct in describing this as a truss. Anyone who's ever taken a first year statics course understands that trusses are defined and designed in two dimensions, and pulling on it in the third dimension (in this case, fore/aft) is an attempt to rely on a material strength that that element is not characterized for. On any day, windy or otherwise, that element is in compression - end of story. Subject it to a bending moment and you're on your own. It's of the diameter and strength that it needs to be, otherwise you'd hear thousands of stories about them collapsing (folding) in normal use. Fatten it up all you want, and all you'll be doing is engaging in a poorly-considered hack of the sort that just leads to something else failing when you yank on it.

You're getting considered and experienced opinions here. If you're just going to blow them off, perhaps it's better not to ask the question, because that's kind of insulting.



Edited by jonathan162 on Oct 25, 2021 - 04:22 AM.

--
Southern Alberta and all over the damn place.
*
1981 SuperCat 20 "Roberts' Rockets"
1983 SuperCat 19
TriFoiler #23 "Unfair Advantage"
Mystere 17
Unicorn A-Class (probably made by Trowbridge) that I couldn't resist rescuing at auction.
H18 & Zygal (classic) Tornado - stolen and destroyed - very unpleasant story.
Invitation and Mistral and Sunflower and windsurfers w/ Harken hydrofoils and god knows what else...
--

Quote

They would also have to be removed together due to the pivmatic system.

No,they do not. The pivmatic has NOTHING to do with tieing both rudders.
That piece of tubing, known as tiller cross tie separates them.
I’m not against trailering with rudders, if properly secured. My advice was given because you appeared to be having issues getting a 400lb load up an incline. In such a case, the lowest hanging fruit is to reduce the mass.
The easiest way to drop a mast is on an incline, not on a trailer. I’ve watched MN3s friend, (older than I), drop his Nacra mast solo on their inclined beach.

This is my last post regarding this particular Cat. Respectfully, I give up. I’ve sent you almost free parts, & spent far too much time referring you repeatedly to the Nacra manual, along with other sources on this site. Some people follow advice, some don’t.
Good luck with your project.



Edited by Edchris177 on Oct 25, 2021 - 03:27 AM.

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

[quote=Edchris177]

Quote

This is my last post regarding this particular Cat. Respectfully, I give up. I’ve sent you almost free parts, & spent far too much time referring you repeatedly to the Nacra manual, along with other sources on this site. Some people follow advice, some don’t.

Edchris, I salute you to your decision.

--
Brgds
Lars

Frankentri 5.8/5.5/Inter20
Aerow trimaran foiler

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1192604934176635
--

Make sure to secure not just the rudders up but also the crossbar centered. It is not uncommon to touch branches, not so likely on the road at speed but before, or when you get home. If you didn’t secure it tight it will be easily pushed completely out to one side and break. And you may even hit others with the crossbar or the rudders. Yes, if you secure things properly there should be no risk. The risk is that one day you may forget.
About rod strength, as said, it stands high loads on its own axis and way less on its perpendicular axis. It’s not meant to be forced horizontally, especially from the lower end. Try hard enough and you will be able to bend it with your hands. You may tie a short loop of rope passing in front of the beam and behind the rod above and below the beam. That would keep the forces close to the beam where the rod strength is not compromised. Where do you attach the righting line? I personally don’t like to attach it to the rod, unless it’s secured close the beam, for the same reasons explained. Next time you take your trampoline out, add a grommet just behind the center of the front beam. The other thing you can do is tying two loops around the beam at each end, just inside the hulls, adding an eye strap underneath the beam to limit side movement. Then add a bridle from which you can attach the winch. You may also attach a tow line there.

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I do not agree that is has no strength in the fore aft direction. otherwise a windy day would be dangerous.

you are correct - it has "some" (fore/aft) strength - but your conclusion is wrong
it is designed to manage loads from above
it is meant to stop your mast from ripping through you beam when it has lots of force on it ( sheeted and has wind on it)

it is NOT meant as a method to pull or push your boat horizontally - and if you do, you are adding a lot of force in a critical part that was not meant to have force on it - ymmv


Rudders - every pothole you hit will add wear to your rudders / especially your fittings and bolts and through holes

you can bend rudder through-bolts and cause worming out and adding slop to your rudders - it is up to you if the time savings is worth that risk/ damage (and your specific gear)

IF you travel with them on ... in the up position you risk the rudder causing damage by popping out of the locked up position and slamming down - it is up to you if it is worth the risk and the time savings is worth it. different boats have different systems to keep the rudders up. some a reliable some are not - ymmv

If you drive a few miles on smooth roads - probably not a big deal, if you drive far down crappy roads (and care) ... it's probably worth the time to take em off.

If you look at most modern boats / racers, they take off all the parts, and put them in rudder bag, boom bags, sail bags, etc. It is all an effort to protect expensive gear and make it last



Edited by MN3 on Oct 25, 2021 - 12:27 PM.

That tow line will work when setup like that, with a bridle, it wont if you tie it to the center of the front beam, the cat will not follow the line. Same for anchoring, if you attach the line at the center of the front beam the boat will be constantly "sailing" around the anchor

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You may tie a short loop of rope passing in front of the beam and behind the rod above and below the beam. That would keep the forces close to the beam where the rod strength is not compromised.

That's your best option as long as the load isn't extreme. If by yourself, bracing your feet against the axel of the trailer and you're able to move the boat up on the trailer part way I would say the load isn't too great so winch away. Adding a grommet aft of the beam would certainly work well as long as the grommet is large and has a lot of reinforcement around it. It won't be cheap. Securing the rudders so they won't fall down should not be an issue. The reason for removing them is they stick out and are vulnerable to damage from other vehicles and backing up. With all the boats I've had over the years I have sustained way more damage trailering than sailing. I trailer with the rudders on but that is only because I trailer backwards and I figure they are way less vulnerable that way.

--
Bill Townsend
G-Cat 5.0
Sarasota
--

Wow.
You guys that trailer long distance with your rudders on really like sloppy steering. I never trailer with the rudders on. Not to Mexico, Coeur D' Alene Idaho, or all parts California and Arizona.

I align my rudders with a 2 mm toe in. I bet the slop in your steering, from the tiller handle to the blade, is five times that.

Trailering with the weight of the rudders on creates wear in the rudder pivots, the gudgeon mounts, the steering linkage, and enhances the gap between the castings and the rudder blade.

You'll note that NO catamaran ever came with a factory device that holds up the rudders while you trailer any considerable distance.

Edchris177, MN3, I think we're done here.

--
Sheet In!
Bob
_/)_____/)_/)____/)____/)_____/)/)__________/)__
Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
AZ Multihull Fleet 42 member
(Way) Past Commodore of Prindle Fleet 14
Arizona, USA
--

klozhald

Wow.
You guys that trailer long distance with your rudders on really like sloppy steering. I never trailer with the rudders on. Not to Mexico, Coeur D' Alene Idaho, or all parts California and Arizona.

I align my rudders with a 2 mm toe in. I bet the slop in your steering, from the tiller handle to the blade, is five times that.

Trailering with the weight of the rudders on creates wear in the rudder pivots, the gudgeon mounts, the steering linkage, and enhances the gap between the castings and the rudder blade.

My rudders and tiller mechanisms are tight and with a similar toe-in. There's only wear where there's movement, and for there to be movement there has to be slop to start with. You're drawing a generalization that isn't necessarily valid.

I'm going to add a long-overdue "shout out" to Bill Frye and his Tiller Linkage Connectors (KISME's TLCs). I got a set from him when I put H18 rudders on my Mystere (don't get me started on the garbage that came with the boat), and to this day they're as tight as the day I bought 'em - even with thousands of highway miles added. They were a beautiful piece of work; when Bill retired he sold everything to Murrays, and when they disappeared from Murrays' catalog I was pissed to learn that they hadn't just discontinued them - they'd scrapped the tooling as well. Damn shame.

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You'll note that NO catamaran ever came with a factory device that holds up the rudders while you trailer any considerable distance.

That's a completely spurious argument. As a rule catamarans don't come from the factory with trailers, so by your logic they aren't meant to be towed anywhere.



Edited by jonathan162 on Oct 25, 2021 - 04:14 PM.

--
Southern Alberta and all over the damn place.
*
1981 SuperCat 20 "Roberts' Rockets"
1983 SuperCat 19
TriFoiler #23 "Unfair Advantage"
Mystere 17
Unicorn A-Class (probably made by Trowbridge) that I couldn't resist rescuing at auction.
H18 & Zygal (classic) Tornado - stolen and destroyed - very unpleasant story.
Invitation and Mistral and Sunflower and windsurfers w/ Harken hydrofoils and god knows what else...
--

Quote

I'm going to add a long-overdue "shout out" to Bill Frye and his Tiller Linkage Connectors (KISME's TLCs). I got a set from him when I put H18 rudders on my Mystere (don't get me started on the garbage that came with the boat)

agreed, mystere's system has lots of flaws. that is why i have a dozen spares of each part :)
I have seen nacra rudders on a mystere 6.0 do very welll - never saw h18's on a mystere

"Flaws"? You call a rudder that: a) Doesn't lock down; b) Doesn't lock up; and c) Doesn't kick up a "system [with] lots of flaws"?

I call it "inexcusable crap that, when it's not floating up just for fun is looking for something to hit so that it can explode, assuming you don't replace it with a REAL rudder system first".

Of course, I'm speaking only of the original Mystere 17's - I have no idea what they put on the 6.0 .

--
Southern Alberta and all over the damn place.
*
1981 SuperCat 20 "Roberts' Rockets"
1983 SuperCat 19
TriFoiler #23 "Unfair Advantage"
Mystere 17
Unicorn A-Class (probably made by Trowbridge) that I couldn't resist rescuing at auction.
H18 & Zygal (classic) Tornado - stolen and destroyed - very unpleasant story.
Invitation and Mistral and Sunflower and windsurfers w/ Harken hydrofoils and god knows what else...
--

Quote

if not the rod should be thicker in my opinion and is an easily correctable engineering mistake.

You sir are quite obviously not an engineer and your claim of an engineering mistake is specious at best. The issue here isn’t just the size and strength of the rod, it’s how it connects to the lower v-bar and runs through the front beam. If your winch line slides down to the bottom of the striker rod you’ve got a lovely moment arm multiplying your winching force. If your rod was oversized that force has to go somewhere and it’s just going to get transferred into trying to deform/stretch the front beam holes. The range here is from direct shear load (assume d from winch line to front beam = 0) all the way to a pretty decent bending moment that is going to act on the striker rod right where the bottom thread is cut (weakest point).

Simply put you’re making an issue and saying it’s a poor design when you’re trying to do something never intended by the manufacturer and obviously a bad choice by any observer for a variety of reasons (as evidenced by the other comments here).



Edited by carbonc on Oct 25, 2021 - 11:58 PM.

Quote

"Flaws"? You call a rudder that: a) Doesn't lock down; b) Doesn't lock up; and c) Doesn't kick up a "system [with] lots of flaws"?

i don't have any of these issues with any of my rudders/casting

mine lock down and stay down unless i am in 30knots and hit grass (been there, don't want to again)
mine don't "lock up' but they do stay up (unless a butterfly lands on them)
mine certainly do kick up when they contact anything more than a guppy

BUT they do die a young life (almost always the crap pot metal fails) and so far Mystere has. been good to work with for spares. I ordered a complete upper and lower casting from them a few years ago and one of the uppers had some casting flaws - they sent me a new one without question

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The main beam is difficult to pull from because the trampoline get in the way. I need 2 attachment points o pull it straight onto a trailer or up a steep beach.

I can't imagine there is no way to tie a line around the main beam at each forward corner of the tramp. What kind of boat? A bridle tied at those two points would make this discussion of using the dolphin striker rod moot. All of this should not be complicated. As far as the rudders go, if you want to leave them on, tie them where they can't fall down but take them off for long trips. Sorry for sounding so pragmatic, but too much is being made of this.

--
Bill Townsend
G-Cat 5.0
Sarasota
--

MN3

Quote

"Flaws"? You call a rudder that: a) Doesn't lock down; b) Doesn't lock up; and c) Doesn't kick up a "system [with] lots of flaws"?

i don't have any of these issues with any of my rudders/casting

Then we're talking about two different things. The original 17's had no "mechanism" of any sort - just small ledges on the castings that rested against each other in either the up or down position, held in place by a subtle combination of gravity and prayer. I'd be interested in seeing a picture of yours. By funny coincidence, this summer I quite accidentally met a chap at the lake who has a 17 with a sail number just a few away from mine, and I've been helping him sort the boat out. Amazingly, he still has the original rudders, and though they've been endlessly patched and hacked over the years, they still (don't) function as original - apparently in four decades nobody who owned the boat knew enough to have had enough of them. I'll try to get him to shoot me a couple of pics and post them here.

--
Southern Alberta and all over the damn place.
*
1981 SuperCat 20 "Roberts' Rockets"
1983 SuperCat 19
TriFoiler #23 "Unfair Advantage"
Mystere 17
Unicorn A-Class (probably made by Trowbridge) that I couldn't resist rescuing at auction.
H18 & Zygal (classic) Tornado - stolen and destroyed - very unpleasant story.
Invitation and Mistral and Sunflower and windsurfers w/ Harken hydrofoils and god knows what else...
--

Quote

Then we're talking about two different things. The original 17's had no "mechanism" of any sort - just small ledges on the castings that rested against each other in either the up or down position,

still the same, just a notch on the lower and notch on the upper - that eventually rounds off - as i said they don't lock up but until they are worn round and can no longer be filed anymore (they usually break prior to this point), they stay up. - even on anchor, even with boat and wave traffic

(We really need to take this to a new thread...)

Unbelievable to me that after all these years Sansoucy wouldn't have come up with an actual grown-up rudder mechanism.

I sail a lot of reservoirs, which means fluctuating, unpredictable levels. The local (in-city) reservoir where I learned to sail and for many years kept the Mystere mast-up is just one of them (though it's recently been rehabilitated - it's been steadily silting up over the last half century to the point that much of its area was unsailable, but thanks to the big 2013 flood they modified the dam to raise the level a meter or two, and it's like a brand new lake). The first, maybe the second year I had the boat (can't remember for sure, but could probably find documentation) I quite unexpectedly hit bottom at speed and the tops of both rudders blew off. They were nice enough to send me a new pair gratis, but I sailed the boat extremely carefully until I made a holiday trip to LA and had the Hobie rudders installed while I was down there. I can't imagine putting up with those non-mechanisms except in an emergency situation.

The non-kick-up rudders are even more incomprehensible when you look at the pivoting boards.

--
Southern Alberta and all over the damn place.
*
1981 SuperCat 20 "Roberts' Rockets"
1983 SuperCat 19
TriFoiler #23 "Unfair Advantage"
Mystere 17
Unicorn A-Class (probably made by Trowbridge) that I couldn't resist rescuing at auction.
H18 & Zygal (classic) Tornado - stolen and destroyed - very unpleasant story.
Invitation and Mistral and Sunflower and windsurfers w/ Harken hydrofoils and god knows what else...
--

I have a block and tackle I use to pull the boat up on the trailer, since I mostly singlehand. I have a line with a snapshackle that I wrap around the mast step, down, around the dolphin striker, up, and back around the mast step. I could go just around the mast step, but I want to keep the load as low as possible. When we tow boats (keelboats and catamarans), we always go around the mast or mast step.

--
Scott

Prindle Fleet 2
TCDYC

Prindle 18-2 Mod "FrankenKitty"
Tornado Classic "Fast Furniture"
Prindle 19 "Mr. Wiggly"
Nacra 5.8 "De ja vu"
Nacra 5.0
Nacra 5.8
Tornadoes (Reg White)
--

rungi

Where is the bests place to attach a winch to pull a catamaran?

I was using dolphin striker rod. Is this strong enough? It is used to right the boat all the wind power propels the boat from this rod, but I don't want to bend it at all or change the tension of the v bar. I just replaced it today because it was slightly bent by the pin when lowering the mast too far before removing pin.

The main beam is difficult to pull from because the trampoline get in the way. I need 2 attachment points o pull it straight onto a trailer or up a steep beach.

To get back to the original question.... On my Nacra, I would make a bridle with each tail tied around the front beam at the hull. I had a spin pole which would help center the boat, but I think you could get a large diameter ring (4-5") to go around the block and tackle pulling the boat. Have the ring centered by a line on each side going to the forestay attachment tangs. This will keep the nose following the pull of the line.

--
Scott

Prindle Fleet 2
TCDYC

Prindle 18-2 Mod "FrankenKitty"
Tornado Classic "Fast Furniture"
Prindle 19 "Mr. Wiggly"
Nacra 5.8 "De ja vu"
Nacra 5.0
Nacra 5.8
Tornadoes (Reg White)
--

rungi

When putting the boat on to the trailer do you just recommend pushing it on.(this can be done but if it is steep it is much easier to winch the boat onto the trailer) I had been getting the bow on to the trailer rollers, backing up the car a little to raise off the beach wheels, then removing the cat trax and winching boat onto trailer while mast is still up. Is the the front beam a safe place to attach a rope to pull the boat up?

I always just pull/push my boat by hand onto the trailer, and that's what I recommend as Plan A. (Staying out of the mast/rudder removal fray.) Pulling seems easier, so I do that as far as I can first, but I'm short. (I installed some non-skip tape where I stand on the trailer frame to keep from slipping.) Once I've pulled it as far as I can, it's close to the balance point, so lifting the rear and pushing isn't so bad.

I know some who winch, but I cringe when I see that done with the boat at a steep angle point-loading the hull where it meets the roller. In any case, don't winch from the DS rod as others have said. Attaching to the main beam/frame should be okay, but I don't know the particulars to attach on your boat. If the boat were at only a slight angle to the trailer, I think winching would be okay. Before putting bows on rollers, maybe move cattrax aft as far as possible to reduce the angle?

Just an observation...the higher the rollers are off the ground, the more difficult the loading. Some trailers have the crossbeams below the frame and others above. Some have larger diameter wheels/tires than others. Even the angle at which the trailer is attached to the vehicle may come into play. The point being that every situation is different and so may be the best solution to the problem.

--
Jerome Vaughan
Hobie 16
Clinton, Mississippi
--

Another option is to release the trailer from the car and manually position the rollers or cradles under the hulls close to the beachwheels. Then you can move the beachwheels aft (after locking the trailer wheels) and then winch the boat into the trailer, at a more natural angle. Not so natural is the position of the winch handle but it works for me. Though more often I keep the trailer on the car and as Jerome says I pull and push the boat part way before using the winch.

thanks for all the ideas. i had done all these and the bridle on the cat trax works very well for me. the bridle on front beam to pull up on trailer also works well to pull the boat onto trailer it is kind of heavy althogh i had pushed it up a few times. i have to say that taking rudders off solo is close to impossible with 5.7 while on the beach. it is hard to balance the boat and remove the pins. i know you can remove each rudder if you remove the tie bar sorry to say that the pivmatic system prevents this. edchis i listen to every piece of advise and link you have ever posted. i am not an enginner and apologize if a little slow. thanks again for all your help!

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i know you can remove each rudder if you remove the tie bar sorry to say that the pivmatic system prevents this.

Hey Rungi,
The pivmatic does NOT prevent the tie bar from being removed. Probably you have have done yet another mistake when rigging the rudder system.



Edited by revintage on Oct 28, 2021 - 09:04 AM.

--
Brgds
Lars

Frankentri 5.8/5.5/Inter20
Aerow trimaran foiler

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1192604934176635
--

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i have to say that taking rudders off solo is close to impossible with 5.7 while on the beach

Why on the beach? You can remove it with the boat on the trailer or on the beachwheels.

One little stupid detail that I took too long to figure out is that you don't need to start inserting the pin from the lower gudgeon with the casting already in position, if you do that with the boat on the ground, you need to raise the sterns to make room to insert the pin and it gets tricky to hold the casting at the same time. It's better to first raise the hull and insert the pin on the lower gudgeon, without the casting, and then lower the hull and put the casting, lower hole first, slide it down and then the upper part.

I converted to the newer system and it's a different story, you really forget about the topic, except for removing the cross bar, unless you don't (I do).
https://www.murrays.com/p…dgeon-upper-countersunk/
https://www.murrays.com/p…dgeon-lower-countersunk/
https://www.murrays.com/product/56-1002/

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i have to say that taking rudders off solo is close to impossible with 5.7 while on the beach. it is hard to balance the boat and remove the pins.

IF you prefer to do this while on the ground, you can adjust your beachwheels a bit stern of CE and the boat will stay put with it's transoms in the air- you can fiddle with your rudders or whatever and re-adjust your wheels back to Center for easy movement