Sad to say but my shoulders are done. I sailed yesterday in gusty conditions and just can't do it any more.

6.0 has a reefing system and the main has reefpoints, custom wings will fit/work on either cat, lots of spare parts (see pics), extra sails

willing to give a deal to any "regular" from this forum. Lots of extras

those are both boats in the top pic.
Both boats were registered a few years ago in florida, custom alum trailer with extendable yoke for easy stepping (see pics) and extra large tires. 2 righting bags, sailbox, beach wheels.

Please see the ad here - https://www.thebeachcats.…nd-get-a-great-deal.html






Edited by MN3 on Jan 09, 2022 - 03:51 PM.

Worth the price if only to sail in Dunedin for a bit! I have to say it would be a privilege to be your sheet and helm crew, just to see your modifications, pick your brain, and I hope this is not the end of your cat sailing. As I sit here in front of the football game and fire in cold Pennsylvania, you have no idea how tempting it is to come down and look at your Mystere(s). I assume you are trying to sell the pair together to be able to use the interchangeable wings?

--
Tom
NACRA 5.7 (1984 Sail 181)
Pennsylvania
--

MN3, sorry to hear it. I'm right behind you, in my 70's and it looks as though my tired old G-Cat will outlast the tired old me. I too have shoulder issues, mainly from an injury in the late 80's that required rotator cuff surgery. I was stupidly surfing storm swells in California that resulted in a spectacular pitch-pole. I hope you stay on this site and continue to advise. Have you ever considered a Weta? Someone referred to them as the high-performance boat for seniors. Good luck selling your boats. SF

--
Bill Townsend
G-Cat 5.0
Sarasota
--

Quote

assume you are trying to sell the pair together to be able to use the interchangeable wings?

really just want to sell both. the fact the wings are swappable is just a bonus. I have had the 6.0 "available" for years but i didn't want to discount it too much. I am willing to get rid of these pretty cheap at this time.

I Had to take one wing off yesterday on the beach because the ring got snagged and couldn't get it down (the shackle part got hooked). needed to flip the boat while on anchor to get it). reminded me how well built they are - the wings are so light and easy to take on and off - 2 min each way



I think i am done skippering but still have friends i will crew with when there is enough wind (we all prefer solo sailing because it is faster and more agile). I may try to find a different type of boat that doesn't kill my shoulders, not sure if that is possible.

IF you have any real desires for them PM and i will give you the deal of a lifetime :)
also willing to get you lots of pics of the mods. the fabricator who built the wings, and did all the work is a Master fabricator / rigger

Thanks Bill, happens to the best of us. I saw the "old fleet" guys slowly sell off and disappear off the causeway years ago and hoped i would be able to last longer than they did. Not even close compared to Hanz (and Stu, our local chandler) who sailed late into their 70's like you.

I sailed well over 140 days a year for a decade, and probably over 2000 days since i got into beach cats in 99 - so i have no real complaints (besides my failing body parts)

Quote

I too have shoulder issues, mainly from an injury in the late 80's that required rotator cuff surgery.

tore my rotator cuff in highschool - never repaired. Pretty sure i blew out the other one in a capsize years ago. It is so bad now that if i sleep on my side facing right, i wake up in excruciating pain.

Quote

Have you ever considered a Weta?

I have sailed a weta before. decent boat. Not sure i would be any better with that boat - and they are pretty wet :)
but an option. I have a friend who's father had one and he let me take it out (years ago).
I would need to rent/demo one for 2 days before i would know if it would work - but an option.

(after one day i am really sore, after 2 days of sheeting i can't lift my arm for a few days)



Edited by MN3 on Jan 09, 2022 - 05:46 PM.

I am 68 and my body has held out well in spite of being over-weight. Unfortunately at #270 I can crew for two. My main handicap is getting out on the wire because I just can't push out when my feet are at my hips, so the wings are very tempting. That said, sailing in good wind is a lot of fun, especially with younger (my kids) crew that can get out on the wire. I have been sailing the cat since 1986, but your experience and application of that in optimizing these cats is at a different level. That is the most incredible value in this sale. Don't underestimate it. What a hoot this sport has been. I sure hope someone with your passion for it, buys your boats.

--
Tom
NACRA 5.7 (1984 Sail 181)
Pennsylvania
--

Quote

That said, sailing in good wind is a lot of fun, especially with younger (my kids) crew that can get out on the wire.

Best of both worlds.


(not me, that is our buddy Zack on his mystere 5.5). Currently I don't have the trap wires on my cats since the wings take care of hiking out - but he loves to trap off his wings. Before i owned the 6.0 I have trapped out with another person off the wings, and a 3rd inboard on the helm

I hear ya... I have a bruised rotator from about 8 years ago doing RC and just pushed a boat off the committee boat. I have upgraded my mainsheet on Franken to a 12:1 and have learned my reach limits. Maybe the increased mainsheet is an option?

--
Scott

Prindle Fleet 2
TCDYC

Prindle 18-2 Mod "FrankenKitty"
Tornado Classic "Fast Furniture"
Prindle 19 "Mr. Wiggly"
Nacra 5.8 "De ja vu"
Nacra 5.0
Nacra 5.8
Tornadoes (Reg White)
--

Quote

and just pushed a boat off the committee boat

Quote

Maybe the increased mainsheet is an option?

i use harken 70mm (or whatever the big blocks are)
i think more purchases would mean more sheeting (granted with less force) I am not sure that would help . I think it's the angle (of the dangle) that causes the pain -

After one day of sheeting i am really sore, after 2 i can't lift my arm for days

Sad to hear you're giving up on them. Maybe something smaller? Maybe a recent but not quite latest-model a-cat? they seem to be choice being remarkably light and nimble, light loads and good performance if you know what you're doing.

Anyway, you can come borrow my Weta anytime in Miami if you fancy a taste.

Hey MN3 - Do you have better pics of those custom wings? Really interested in how they were fabbed up and attached to your boat(s). And that price for 2 fully customized/well set up boats is crazy low. Weird times. Sorry about you having to come to terms; seems I've been doing some of that as well lately. Getting old isn't for the faint of heart...

--
Chuck C
NACRA 500 Mk2
Hobie 21se (sold)
--

Quote

Do you have better pics of those custom wings? Really interested in how they were fabbed up and attached to your boat(s).

Sure

Price is low compared to the 20k i have spent on these 2 boats, gear and sails but they are they are far from mint and as you can see, could use some attention if you care about showroom condition hulls. Every scratch on the 6.0 hurt me deeply (as it was darn near mint when i got it), but the 5.5 has served me very well and has been "thoroughly tested".

The custom trailer, wheels sail-box and almost new jib sails make this a REAL good deal in my mind -

anyway pics:
Wings pivot inboard. there is a nice and very thick-walled alum pipe welded in. there are nylon bushings to prevent wear



This is the extendable yoke, the winch is rigged on it to lift


This mast cradle has one of the 2 pins that are used to secure the front of the wing through the beam (and beamcap) there are also alum tubes as compression tubes on all 8 bolts











The aft wing attachment is a simple cotter pin through receivers welded onto the rear beam-caps







Edited by MN3 on Jan 12, 2022 - 04:23 PM.

Quote

Maybe a recent but not quite latest-model a-cat?

Would love a 20lb mast and 3lb rudders but all i do is island hop and I am not sure this is a good option for a cruising boat

plus our wind is typically light in the morning followed by moderate insanity ... I don't think 165lb boat is gonna handle afternoon summer storms too well

Quote

Anyway, you can come borrow my Weta anytime in Miami if you fancy a taste.

THANKS!
I got down to delray 3 times last year to see Dad & sis. I will keep that in mind and let you know when i am down next.



Edited by MN3 on Jan 12, 2022 - 04:30 PM.

Wow! Those wings were engineered RIGHT. The boat looks really well thought out. Yeah, great price for all that you're getting, no doubt about that.

--
Chuck C
NACRA 500 Mk2
Hobie 21se (sold)
--

Quote

Wow! Those wings were engineered RIGHT.

My buddy, (the fabricator/rigger) is THE MAN! Where he built these there was also a naval engineer at that shop, there was lots of discussion with him on loads on the mast (when reefed, and the wings, etc.)

You can't see in these pics but the wing arms angle (inward at the beam) from both ends. this prevents fore-to-aft swinging - which is the probably the cause of failure on many factory wings. just working the metal slightly but repetitively with every wave and bow-dive)

As am Matter of fact, anyone in need of a new 80' mast, or rigging, or Solar panels for their yacht, please contact Brian at The Yacht Rigger in St. Pete -https://theyachtrigger.com/

Quote

Yeah, great price for all that you're getting, no doubt about that.

I will give you a discount, come on down :)



Edited by MN3 on Jan 12, 2022 - 05:57 PM.

[quote=MN3]

Quote

Maybe a recent but not quite latest-model a-cat?

plus our wind is typically light in the morning followed by moderate insanity ... I don't think 165lb boat is gonna handle afternoon summer storms too well
[quote]

That is precisely why I bought my little Dart, (sailing friends call it the Girly Cat…but they all stay on shore when it gets to 25+).
I’m in the “over 60 crowd” too. Much as I loved my 6.0XL, at my age, solo, it was just too much work, & had to be sailed conservatively in anything but light conditions as it was a beast to right.

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

Quote

I’m in the “over 60 crowd” too

Don't include me in "your crowd" !!!!
jk - but i am early 50's

I love darts and was just talking with Jon (HeadHunter) - that he would love his dart18 back. We sailed that fast in heavy storms and laughed ... till we cried, and prayed ... and cried a little more

FUN boat i would probably love a Dart 18 if the sheeting angle would be any less painful -



Edited by MN3 on Jan 15, 2022 - 04:06 PM.

Edited by MN3 on Mar 23, 2022 - 05:03 PM.

What about surgery to correct the rotator issue?
You don’t want to be on severe pain, with unworkable shoulders the rest of your life.

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

I had rotator cuff surgery back in the early 90's. The injury occurred while sailing a 16ft catamaran and being overconfident about my abilities. (A high-speed pitch-pole.) I treated it for about a year with painkillers until the insurance company relented and paid for the surgery. I was able to sail again and I'm still sailing, but not near as often and a lot more careful and methodical. I'm 72.

--
Bill Townsend
G-Cat 5.0
Sarasota
--

Ouch. I certainly suggest seeing an orthopedic doctor and discuss options. Hopefully they present a good one, and you can focus on selling the Mystere you use less and getting back on the water with the one you use the most!

Certainly on the 6.0 I would want a 12:1 mainsheet. I’ve gone from 8:1 to 10:1 to 12:1 on the F18 and each time it’s been an improvement. Loads are noticeably lower, I come off the water ready to race another day, and leech tension is more controllable. I can see the argument for sheet response, heard it plenty of times with the foiling A but I know three of us that are using 12:1 setups and we are all happy in general.

I agree that for cruising/beaching the A isn’t the right boat, but for a super fun ride that is generally easier on the body, a classic A is an attractive option. Those I generally suggest a 10:1 or maybe 11:1 mainsheet system on, as the loads are more manageable than on the foiler.



Edited by samc99us on Mar 26, 2022 - 09:14 PM.

Thanks Sam. I sailed last sat in 15-20 and it didn't hurt then but is pretty bad all week
I will talk with my GP and get a referral to an Ortho

I just became a member of this community, because my husband bought me a Nacra 5.2 for my birthday. For years my screensaver was a Mystere on a fun ride. I learned to sail on a Mystere 6.0, where they are born. What a wonderful catamaran. Sorry you have to part ways with it, it must be heart breaking. I live in St Pete, if you have good recommendations for launching spots I'm all ears.

--
Caroline
Nacra 5.2
St Pete, FL
--

Thanks!

there is a large fleet in gulfport - much closer to you in st pete otherwise dunedin causeway is cat sailing Mecca

MY TURN

About 3 weeks ago at the gym I was doing incline bench presses, my plan was a light weight high rep set. When I lifted the bar off the top hook my right shoulder collapsed = very painful. The general consensus is that I have a torn labrum. I'm in wait and see mode right now and enjoying Aleve very much. Unfortunately the long and short of it is that I'll be on the sideline through all of 2022 and hope to be back in the game next season.

--
Hobie 16 (3 formerly)
MacGregor 25 (formerly)
Chrysler Dagger 14 (formerly)
NACRA 5.0 (currently)
High Point, NC
--

oh man, sorry to hear

MN3

oh man, sorry to hear

Thanks for that. I felt aweful when you first started this post that any passionate cat sailor is taken out of the game. I hope you can find a fix for your shoulders. It seems even if you can get them surgically repaired the rehab time is about a year and a half

--
Hobie 16 (3 formerly)
MacGregor 25 (formerly)
Chrysler Dagger 14 (formerly)
NACRA 5.0 (currently)
High Point, NC
--

Quote

I was doing incline bench presses ,... When I lifted the bar off the top hook my right shoulder collapsed = very painful.

That's why i NEVER work out - it will kill ya !

MN3

Thanks Sam. I sailed last sat in 15-20 and it didn't hurt then but is pretty bad all week
I will talk with my GP and get a referral to an Ortho

Have they taken any pictures of your shoulder yet and confirmed a diagnosis? You may not require an ortho consult.

--
John Schwartz
Ventura, CA
--

Quote

Have they taken any pictures of your shoulder yet and confirmed a diagnosis? You may not require an ortho consult.

I have not done anything yet. I have a Dr's appointment (at the VA) in a few weeks - I will discuss with my GP and she will give me a referral - that is the only way it works with the VA.

I have not sailed in a few months now, and I have zero discomfort at this time

MN3

Thanks Sam. I sailed last sat in 15-20 and it didn't hurt then but is pretty bad all week
I will talk with my GP and get a referral to an Ortho

As someone that has been to a physical therapist I can't recommend enough good things. A good PT is a miracle worker if you ask me

Quote

As someone that has been to a physical therapist I can't recommend enough good things. A good PT is a miracle worker if you ask me

How is your mystere? any update?

I'm here to respectfully suggest that you should perhaps reconsider and re-assess your belief that your shoulder is finished - and with it, your cat sailing career. Maybe don't sell all your boats just yet if you haven't already. It's a shame to see someone who is obviously as into cat sailing as you are feel they are forced to bow out.

Obviously, I don't know you or your specific shoulder situation, and everyone is different; and by no means am I ignoring or minimizing the extent of pain you said your shoulder was in either. However, shoulders can get so inflamed and painful that they can make you believe you are finished and could not possibly recover without something drastic like surgery and/or stopping the aggravating activity forever - even though that may not turn out to be the case.

There's nothing wrong with going to an orthopedist, but unfortunately many of them are not necessarily that tuned into the details of what/how PT can improve your situation. They do usually refer you for PT though, which is good, and the question then becomes whether you get a PT who knows what to do with you.

I suggest you consider hanging from a bar. Maybe work up to it if you can't do it right away. See this video, for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bI9KZVdFSmQ. These guys are physical therapists, but they admit the bar-hanging suggestion comes from a book written by an orthopedic surgeon on how to recover from shoulder pain/injury and maintain shoulder health. I think they post a link to the book in one of their videos, and the doctor is John Kirsch, MD. He asserts that hanging can actually change, or "re-model," the structures in the shoulder, so that the shoulder joint opens up, reducing impingement and allowing more pain-free movement. Once you go to the video, you will see a lot of other videos from these guys and others also recommending hanging, as well as other movements that I found helped big-time.

When I bought my boat, the shoulder pain I got at the end of the day after having pulled really hard on the halyard multiple times was so bad I thought maybe I'd made a mistake buying it. However, I started hanging and it has helped me in a big way. It did take time (I've been doing it 2 years now), and my shoulders are not perfect, but I lost a lot of pain and gained a lot of shoulder functionality back. Also, it's important to get correct upper back and shoulder blade position, then only pull lines with your shoulders and shoulder blades well-retracted before you start of the pull.

I think this guy's video is good too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZEYZXcn-C4.

Well, hopefully some of this might be helpful. Wishing you good luck.



Edited by CatFan57 on Jun 12, 2022 - 03:22 PM.

--
1998 P18.2
Sailing out of SHBCC, NJ
--

Quote

I suggest you consider hanging from a bar.

Appreciate it! I am seeing my GP next week.
I will look into "hanging" but i have resigned my commission, I am giving over the helms to someone else.


I am not done sailing, but I am done sailing large volume, unassisted sheeting for now at least. I need to get both these boats out of my back yard so I can move on other options (and to fix my yard and fence).

I would LOVE it if someone in this core group wanted to buy these, use these, resell them for a profit, ....

I have lowered my price: $4250 for both boats and trailers (all registered), and all sails

2 FL (registered) mysteres each with new jibs, mains in good shape, 2 spin poles, hoops and spinnaker sails
2 FL (registered) trailers (one is custom Alum with extending yoke for easier stepping)
Custom wings (fit on both)

https://www.thebeachcats.…as-mainsail-reefing.html



Edited by MN3 on Jun 13, 2022 - 12:22 PM.

Quote

Ouch. I certainly suggest seeing an orthopedic doctor and discuss options.

Well had the x-rays and MRI's
lots of issues (and big words):
degenerative changes in the AC joints and glenohumeral joints, labral fraying (tears) with paralabral cysts posteriorly, supraspinatus and infraspinatus tendinopathy

AKA - i am getting old and worn out. lol