I have been sailing a monohull for a year or so. Looking to get a cat
I am looking to get one that is ok for 3 adults at least, not too frightening for someone new and reasonable enough to not outgrow too soon. I know it is hard to give advise without knowing my skills.
I have a mystere 5.5, a prindle 18, a prindle 19, a prindle escape 18 near me on the market place for around 2-3k.
I am liking the idea of Mystere apart from cool name, because of center boards, thinking it might tack better - lay guess, not a fact.
I like the look of prindle 19 but might be too much for me. Can any of them be sailed with reefed sail so that I can keep training wheels so to speak?
The Escape 18 would be my recommendation. Uses a 16 mast, has wings, and tacks well enough. Plenty of floatation for a crowd. You can also solo it. We have one at my club.
The 19 is a big boy boat. Both the Mystere and 19 are great machines. You won't outgrow the Mystere.
None can reef to my knowledge. You can depower a cat with a jib furler and hanking down on the cunningham. Get familiar with flipping. It is a rite of passage.
I have been advised to stay away from 19 by others too
I have a mystere for around 2k and I like the look of it.
I am also looking at a Escape Playcat from 2005. What do you think of those? It comes with something that looks like a back support rather than wing seat.
I do like the Escape 18. Playcat Escape is different it seems and looks like rotomolded.
Rotomolded plastic are tough, but slower. Prindles and Mystere are fiberglass and repairable; not the same with the rotomolded plastics, USUALLY. Escape Playcat won't have near the performance and you'll outgrow it, as opposed to the Prindle Escape. Generally, there appear to be enough Prindle spare parts floating around also and lots of people that have set them up. The exception to the above would be a Hobie Getaway, but much more expensive for a decent one and still not as performance boat as the others.
sure they can. All cats that sail in the Everglades Challenge are required to reef (or at least used to be required)
My mystere 6.0 had a reefing system added.
it really is not complex: add reefing grommets fore and aft (new tack for downhaul / new clew for boom and main blocks to hang off) , add a way to secure the rolled up part of the sail (i had a simple loops of webbing added to the sail on each side and simply ran a bit of line from one loop on one side to the other) there is no force applied to this rolled up part of the sail, you could use dental floss if you wanted to
take the mainsail off the hook and add a way to secure the halyard on the lower part of the mast: a simple cleat will do, I had a spin lock riveted in the bottom of my mast track) - viola !! you have a reefing system for as cheap as a few grommets and a cleat.
that being said, unless you are planning on going on a long distance race in hurricane season, or want to sail in 25+ knots ... it was not needed. I did sail in 25+ knots for fun and it was pretty amazing being out in that weather with out white knuckling it, but rigging, launching, anchoring and current were horrific to deal with .... not to mention dropping the mast afterwords
Reefed:
reefing loops and aft grommet for the new clew
foreward grommet for new tack
you can't see it but on the forward grommet on the other side of the sail, where that webbing strope is there is also a mast slug so the bolt rope can't pull out of the mast track
Prindle 19 is a good but a lot of boat - if you have experience it is fine - it is based off the Tornado design. If it is a P19MX, this is not for a newb
prindle 18 is a great boat, older design, less deck room for 3 adults would be a bit challenging unless small adults
prindle 18 escape is ... not so great imho - and will be hard to service, rotomolded hulls are heavy and slow - https://www.thebeachcats.…ms/viewtopic/topic/12850 - ymmv
Mystere 5.5 is the bomb. I owned 3 mysteres in the past. Yes the centerboards will assist with tacking, and can be retracted in shallow water and when beaching/launching. also - it is also based off the Tornado design, was actually a trainer boat for olympic sailors at one time. It is very easy to depower it - Lots of downhaul, lots of outhaul and you have depowered it some. furl the jib and you have depowerd it allot but lose some tacking control. OR you can just buy a used f18 sail (cheap) and it will have much less HorsePower than a stock sail. i had 3 of them through the years. i put them on in heavy air (I sailed solo 99% of the time). It is a very fast and responsive boat when sailed well (as is the P19)
Thanks Charlescarlis and MN3. Also, MN3, thanks for the detailed pics. I am in the Daytona Beach area. I will try to get the Mystere. Sounds like a great boat. I think the seller said no tramp. There is one on the boat in the pics but he said it needs one. I will contact the seller and see as I don't know if he meant it comes without one or it is in need of replacing.
Also, I don't know how easy they are to disassemble. Don't have a truck to haul the trailer at present and trying to get a rental truck that allows towing is a pain!!
the boats come apart with 8 bolts, 2 on each side of each beam (front and back) a new one will need to be ordered. all you need is a spanner wrench or a 9/16 rachet
you don't need a truck to haul a beach cat, any car with a tow hitch can do it (even a mini but not the best option). I have pulled cats with honda accords, lexus es and a honda crv. You can get a hitch attached at most U-haul locations for a few hundred bucks or put it on a car yourself with a hitch from etrailer.com
My car is a Mazda 6 and some genius at the Mazda decided the towing capacity is zero!! I found the enterprise truck rental or homedepot flat bed trucks. I don't mind hauling it on one of those. Enterprise guys allow towing on trucks with more than 3/4 ton. Homedepot ones can take it dismantled. I will also look at adding a tow hitch to my Mazda. I saw that they can tow 1500lb in Europe. So, I don't see why they forget the ability while swimming across the pond!!
Also, what do you mean by "new ones need to be ordered". Are you talking about the bolts? If so, will they need to be ordered from Mystere or any ordinary hardware store?
that was a typo, i meant the tramp is shot and a new one will need to be ordered
bolts are fine and even if you needed one for some reason (you lost one somehow), they are available at ace hardware
Tarch...I am in Deland. There is a great group of Cat Sailors in the Daytona Area. Hobie Fleet 80 and Halifax Sailing Assoc are whom I sail with. Send me a PM when you get a boat. Good Luck.
-- Pete
2001 NACRA 450 SOLD
2000 NACRA 500 TOTAL LOSS
2004 NACRA INTER 20 SOLD
2016 NACRA 500 Sport
DeLand, FL --
I am sure the Mazda can tow it. I doubt the whole trailer and boat weigh that much. Don't know about concerns with insurance being void if I do hit someone since Mazda says no towing allowed!! I know that most likely I am overthinking it.
On a separate note, that Mini pulling the cat is hilarious. Can't imagine the looks you get on the road
With starting out, I would agree with the 18 Escape; mainly because of the smaller sail plan. I started catamarans on a Nacra 5.8 and Tornado.. But, I had been racing with my family for a good decade previously. The P18 is also a good boat for starting out and one that you can run for quite a while. I currently race against a very competitive P18 and he has no problem tacking. With all cats, it's all in the technique (ease about an armlengh of mainsheet during the tack). The 19 is a nice boat, but the bows are not forgiving when they bury. I had a 19 from 1990 to 2008 and currently have a modified 18-2. In breeze over 18, you need to stay on your toes with the flat decks. The P18 has more forgiveness with the more rounded decks as with the Mystere. The dagger boards are nice on the Mystere, but you will have constant maintenance with the centerboard trunks. On my Nacra 5.8 and 6.0, it was a constant battle with leaks. They sail much better to windward, but it has a tradeoff. Obviously, the P18 and Escape will not sail to windward as well as a boarded boat, but in 3-8 knots of wind, the P18 is hard to shake off. Sailing on/off the beach without boards is very nice. I think the biggest challenge you will have with the Prindles is the rudder system. I got rid of the locking system in 1991 and built a line pull down system. Typically, the horizontal bolt to lock into gets bent. It is not a hard fix, 1/4" hex bolt, and I recommend replacing this bolt before you even go sailing. These rudders will frustrate the hell out of ya.
-- Scott
Prindle Fleet 2
TCDYC
Prindle 18-2 Mod "FrankenKitty"
Tornado Classic "Fast Furniture"
Prindle 19 "Mr. Wiggly"
Nacra 5.8 "De ja vu"
Nacra 5.0
Nacra 5.8
Tornadoes (Reg White) --
Most Mystere's have centerboards, not daggers (except for the f18 "twister" and the smallern mystere's are skeg) and they do not require constant maintenance. the only time i had an issue was when i unknowingly dropped a large shackle down one and did some damage when i put the board down. so 1 time in 15 years isn't so bad.
Thanks texastuma. I don't have as much experience as you did when you bought yours.
Saltlife77 and MN3, that does look cheap for a 5.2.
Are they forgiving in terms of front end flotation should the bows go under water?
How big an issue is it if the boat is not registered? I plan to run it in the intercostals. If it has the manufacturer certificate of origin or something like that, will that allow me to register with a bill of sale?
tarch...I am not positive but I don't believe the state of FL requires a non-powered vessel 17' or less to be registered. And NACRA bows are very forgiving...hard but not impossible to pitchpole.
Edited by saltlife77 on May 24, 2023 - 12:47 PM.
-- Pete
2001 NACRA 450 SOLD
2000 NACRA 500 TOTAL LOSS
2004 NACRA INTER 20 SOLD
2016 NACRA 500 Sport
DeLand, FL --
tarch...so it's 16' and under doesn't need to be registered...I wouldn't sweat the extra foot. It would take a real asshole to get out his measuring tape. You will be fine in the intracoastal...just wear a lifejacket and they have no reason to stop you in the first place.
-- Pete
2001 NACRA 450 SOLD
2000 NACRA 500 TOTAL LOSS
2004 NACRA INTER 20 SOLD
2016 NACRA 500 Sport
DeLand, FL --
There are a ton (if not most) legacy boats that do not have a title in florida.
Fl (now) requires all non powered boats 16' or longer to be titled, registered and have numbers on it - https://www.flhsmv.gov/mo…l-titling-registrations/ (there are a few exceptions to registration like: being used exclusively in/on a private lake, dealer demo boats and boats under 16' (see my link for other exceptions). They ALL require title.
that being said: it is not enforced. It used to be non powered boats under 20' did not require registration (that changed a decade ago or so).
Since they didn't have to be registered most people didn't want to pay the sales tax (switching ownership and paying sales tax and title fees).
I know the USCG hassled a beach catamaran about this (locally) but not ticketed. However it is the law and any pissed off sherrif, fwwc or USCG can ticket/impound if they have a hair up their butt. MOST beach cats do not have registration numbers on them (including mine but i did carry my regisrtation when I sailed).
[quote]If it has the manufacturer certificate of origin or something like that, will that allow me to register with a bill of sale?/quote]
I would be flabbergasted if you could actually get a manufacturers cert of origin. Nacra was sold long ago and the records of that boat are probably long gone... you can only use a bill of sale if the boat was sold to you from a state that does not title boats and uses a bill of sale for registration.
There are a few remedies - Pay all the associated fees and go in front of a Judge and he can award a title OR go to the FWWC and request an inspection (they will do a record search and if it is not reported stolen) and if they believe you, like you and are in a good mood - they may award you a title (or tell you to go in front of a judge). IF they have any cause they will impound the boat.
Of course i want you to buy my boat but the reasons this boat does not hit all your needs is 1. the tramp area is smaller than a 5.5 so less room for bodies and gear. 2. the daggers' are a pain in the ass to deal with, especially launching into waves and any shallow areas. (mystere centerboards can be retracted and lowered by a control line) 3. the bows on a mystere are MUCH higher volume and will save you if they dig in when hit with a gust. 3. $500 is suspiciously cheap for a boat in good order. It SHOULD sell fast if it is in good shape. If you can, go check it out ASAP and bring a check book if you can live with the boards and (probable lack of title).
I would rather you buy a good boat that you like than "buy mine" so good luck !
There are a ton (if not most) legacy boats that do not have a title in florida.
Fl (now) requires all non powered boats 16' or longer to be titled, registered and have numbers on it - https://www.flhsmv.gov/mo…l-titling-registrations/ (there are a few exceptions to registration like: being used exclusively in/on a private lake, dealer demo boats and boats under 16' (see my link for other exceptions). They ALL require title.
that being said: it is not enforced. It used to be non powered boats under 20' did not require registration (that changed a decade ago or so).
Since they didn't have to be registered most people didn't want to pay the sales tax (switching ownership and paying sales tax and title fees).
I know the USCG hassled a beach catamaran about this (locally) but not ticketed. However it is the law and any pissed off sherrif, fwwc or USCG can ticket/impound if they have a hair up their butt. MOST beach cats do not have registration numbers on them (including mine but i did carry my regisrtation when I sailed).
Wearing a lifejacket is not required by law unless you are under 16. Having one for every person on the boat is required. after years of not wearing one, i decided it was stupid and wore one all the time.
"A child under the age of 6 must wear a USCG-approved Type I, II or III personal flotation device while onboard a vessel under 26 feet in length while the vessel is underway. " - https://myfwc.com/boating…%20shore%20or%20aground.
16' is for registration ... this is not the same thing as title (ownership) - both are illegal to not have, either can get your boat impounded/taken away (albeit i have never heard of this happening).
I wear one 100% on the cat and weather dependent on the big boats.. I have extracted a friend that got washed off the foredeck.. It was night and luckily she had a flashlight.. I reached for the light and found her hair... she came out ok, but it taught all of us a lesson.
-- Scott
Prindle Fleet 2
TCDYC
Prindle 18-2 Mod "FrankenKitty"
Tornado Classic "Fast Furniture"
Prindle 19 "Mr. Wiggly"
Nacra 5.8 "De ja vu"
Nacra 5.0
Nacra 5.8
Tornadoes (Reg White) --
It really depends on your area.. The lakes of Texas are pretty strict where in Galveston Bay and Clear Lake, it is not cared much unless you are a powerboat being stupid. There are a lot of cats that sail and don't have any registration numbers. It has gotten trickier to buy/sell boats that don't have any registration.
-- Scott
Prindle Fleet 2
TCDYC
Prindle 18-2 Mod "FrankenKitty"
Tornado Classic "Fast Furniture"
Prindle 19 "Mr. Wiggly"
Nacra 5.8 "De ja vu"
Nacra 5.0
Nacra 5.8
Tornadoes (Reg White) --
Thanks all. In the end I got the Nacra 5.2 - hulls, beams, mast and sails are in good shape. One small tear on the main sail and a patch that seems to be coming off on the jib. Daggerboards, rudders, rudder castings all seem to be in usable shape. No soft spots.
The serial number ends in 0277 - guessing it is a 1977 model.
It has a white ball on top of the middle of front beam - is that the captive system people talk about? If so, I guess that is a modification done after manufacture right.
I do want to change the shrouds and forestay. Tramp has some holes but repairable.
Will these things work?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/144998065618
https://www.murrays.com/product/02-4245-12/
Not sure about one as old as yours but all the Nacras I've seen use a nylon ball for the mast to rotate on. When it starts to flatten out on top, replace it. It's threaded, don't overtighten! A pin holds the mast step captive to the ball and the mast must always be turned ninety degrees when raising or lowering.
Shrouds are the wires that hold the mast up. The front one is usually referred to as the headstay or forestay. The diamond wires are part of the mast and are used to limit mast bend.
[quote=tarch]
If you want/need new standing or running rigging, If you wish to support local (Central FL)
you can call my friends at The Yacht Rigger in st pete. talk to them and you can send them your old side&fore stay/diamond wire and a bridal wire (1 each) and they can match them for you
