Hi,
I'm looking to buy a new Cat to sail in Muskoka, Ontario, Canada. These are mid size lakes which can range from light winds to quite windy (and potentially gusty). Currently, we have a very old laser which with the 'M' rig and I am also an avid Windsurfer. The purpose of this Cat is so that 1-2 light weight (140-160lb) adults can sail it either solo, together, or with a non-sailing friend. They have a moderate amount of sailing experience and are able to sail the laser. The two available boats in our area are the Hobie Wave or the RS-Cat 14XL.

Based on our positive experiences at ClubMed Cancun, we were thinking of the Hobie Wave. However, it seems difficult to buy right now and I'm intrigued by the RS Cat 14 as it seems like it would be more interesting as our skills grow. Other than the higher price, my main concerns are that the RS will be too complicated. Although it can be sailed with the main alone, it feels like you need the jib to get the most out of it (The Spinnaker and trapeze could be ignored until we are ready for it). I also like that the main can be reefed for very windy days which isn't true for the wave.

Q1: The jib appears to be self tacking. Is it easy for a solo sailor to deal with? Can you just keep it set for tacking and ignore it?
Q2: Without the Spinnaker, is it much faster than the wave?
Q3: Is it easier to tack given that it has a jib
Q4: Is the construction a higher quality than the wave?
Q5: Is the rigging time similar? I assume the jib takes a little extra time to setup. The boat will be stored tied to a dock with the mast up in the summer.
Q6: Does the RS Cat point better?
Q7: If a novice isn't using the traveler, can it be left in the middle and the traveler line stored somewhere?
Q8: Without the jib, does it tack and run ok? It looks like the mast is much further back than the wave.

Incidentally, I also considered the Getaway and RS Cat 16 which aren't much more.

Thanks!



Edited by whichcat123 on Apr 05, 2024 - 08:03 PM.

This is my preface as I have never sailed above cats though I have sailed many others.
As you stated that new Hobies are mostly out of stock until this summer already. Therefore, Waves can still be found on the used market.

When I was searching I looked also at the RS Cat but mostly the 16 because while I sail mostly solo in the weekends I have a second person. The RS Cat 14 looks very nice as does the Topper Topaz 14/16. My local store says the RS has some very nice features in case you do capsize like the hull stern foot steps.

With your windsurfing experience, you can step to a 16 as well as the principle of sailing has similarities. Now for your questions ( I have sailed cats with and without jib). Currently sailing a F16.

A1: When a jib is self tacking, it's make it very easy to solo sail. It will just switch positions when turning.
A2: I would imagine it to be much faster due to the hull shapes as well as the larger sails.
A3: Much easier to tack with a jib, though the self tacking brings it over a little faster than needed. If a jib is back winded it will push the cat faster during the tack.
A4: Don't know but both are roto-molded I believe and plastic so much more forgiving during beaching.
A5: I think the RS Cat has the furling jib option so that could be retrofitted on the 14 too I would think. However, I don't recommend leaving it in the water, would be better to have a little lift. These are very light boats.
A6: Definitely I would say.
A7: Could you leave it mostly in the middle but as you stated that it gusty it wouldn't be a wise choice. Remember when you set the traveller position, it acts like the self tacking jib and will move to the other side at the same location. In the beginning it's potentially be better between 1/3 to 1/2 from the middle to the outside so that gusts don't heel and push you over.
A8: Tack is harder without jib. Running doesn't really make that much of a difference unless you are wing-on-wing sailing but don't think you'll be doing that in the beginning.

Whatever you do it will be fine but look at the used market for an used market maybe to learn and have fun the first season. Even an older cat will blast on the lake.

--
1980 Prindle 18 (sold)
1984 Hobie 14Turbo (sold)
2013 Nacra F16
2018 Topaz Uno RaceX
--

Awesome, thanks for your help! It may take a while, but I agree that finding something used would be ideal.

I’ve sailed a bunch of Waves, & they were fun. However, even as a senior, I wouldn’t go back to one. If you’re a Laser sailor, you understand they reward athleticism. As a competent windsurfer, you are in decent shape.
For the parameters you listed, solo, double, & sounds like occasionally 3 up, I think a bigger boat than a Wave would better suit your needs.
We have a Nacra 5.0 just south of you. It’s not seen much use last few years & might be for sale. You could come down & sail it. You go right by me on the way to Muskoka.
I also have a Hobie 18 with wings rigged at the dock, & a tremendously fun little Dart 15.

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--

whichcat123

Hi,
I'm looking to buy a new Cat to sail in Muskoka, Ontario, Canada. These are mid size lakes which can range from light winds to quite windy (and potentially gusty). Currently, we have a very old laser which with the 'M' rig and I am also an avid Windsurfer. The purpose of this Cat is so that 1-2 light weight (140-160lb) adults can sail it either solo, together, or with a non-sailing friend. They have a moderate amount of sailing experience and are able to sail the laser. The two available boats in our area are the Hobie Wave or the RS-Cat 14XL.

Based on our positive experiences at ClubMed Cancun, we were thinking of the Hobie Wave. However, it seems difficult to buy right now and I'm intrigued by the RS Cat 14 as it seems like it would be more interesting as our skills grow. Other than the higher price, my main concerns are that the RS will be too complicated. Although it can be sailed with the main alone, it feels like you need the jib to get the most out of it (The Spinnaker and trapeze could be ignored until we are ready for it). I also like that the main can be reefed for very windy days which isn't true for the wave.

Q1: The jib appears to be self tacking. Is it easy for a solo sailor to deal with? Can you just keep it set for tacking and ignore it? It is not a self tacking jib. But it is super easy to tack after you've done the tack. It also makes tacking easier, Tacking with a self tacking jib can have some minor challenges as the jib doesn't help your bows get through the wind.
Q2: Without the Spinnaker, is it much faster than the wave? Yes probably 30% faster and will fly a hull much sooner
Q3: Is it easier to tack given that it has a jib The hardest park about tacking the wave is the lack of the traveler, you must have a tight mainsheet to tack and in windy conditions this is an issue on the Wave. On the RS Cats (or any others) you can ease the traveler allowing you to have a tight main and makes it way easier to tack. But yes, the jib does make it easier to tack especially if you leave it backwinded for a moment, ease your main slightly when you're in irons and it will help finish the tack
Q4: Is the construction a higher quality than the wave? The Wave doesn't need to be the stiffest construction, so it is 2 layer construction. The RS Cats being bigger and more volume need to be stiffer and therefore are 3 layer construction, giving it more durability. But that third layer does add to the expense of manufacturing. The RS design is 20 years newer and therefore a bit more intricate which could be considered higher quality. For instance the Gudgeons are much more accessible so they can easily be repaired, where they can't be if the transom cracks on the wave. But overall finish quality the Wave and RS Cat 14 will look about the same.
Q5: Is the rigging time similar? I assume the jib takes a little extra time to setup. The boat will be stored tied to a dock with the mast up in the summer. The RS Cat will take longer the first time but after that it's easy. Things like the 2:1 halyard which allows you to reef (which is a great feature) will take a bit longer than a 1:1 halyard
Q6: Does the RS Cat point better?A racing Wave with a raked back rig may point higher, but the RS Cat 16 will generally point higher by an average sailor and be a lot more forgiving to stay pointing higher.
Q7: If a novice isn't using the traveler, can it be left in the middle and the traveler line stored somewhere? You'll want to use the traveler to depower upwind and in tacks and to go downwind (if you just use the main the squaretop will open up and put pressure on the bows, like sailing a monohull without a vang). It's a very simple thing, I wouldn't avoid it.
Q8: Without the jib, does it tack and run ok? It looks like the mast is much further back than the wave. Yes it tacks easily if you keep a tight mainsheet as mentioned above

Incidentally, I also considered the Getaway and RS Cat 16 which aren't much more. The Getaway is a true people carrier and great for that but it's also an old hull design that has the sail are to perform but lacks refined featured. The RS Cat has more refined features which will make the sailing higher performance but the boat doesn't have wings so you can't carry as many people. If I was sailing with 1-3 people I would choose the RS Cat 16 and the Getaway for more. The Getaway is also a bigger and heavier boat so keep that in mind when moving it around. Also, I'm guessing you won't be able to get a new Getaway for at least a year and the used ones you have to keep an eye out for structural integrity around the beam and wing joints as they can't be fixed.

Thanks!Edited by whichcat123 on Apr 05, 2024 - 08:03 PM.

Just a couple comments. For starters I have not sailed an RS Cat, but do have experience on the Wave.

The comment that the RS cat has more sail area is somewhat misleading. Looking at the brochure, they are including the spinnaker sail area in the calculation. Main and jib size on the Wave are actually slightly larger than the RS (though both are very similar). An optional spinnaker is available for the Wave.

Someone also mentioned the Wave not having a main traveler, but this is also an optional accessory if you choose to go that route.

I don’t know the rigging time for the RS, but the Wave rigging time is extremely quick. I recall when they first came out, Hobie claiming that the Wave could be rigged in 5 minutes, starting with the hulls and crossbars completely disassembled. The Wave was designed specifically for simplicity and to even be car-toppable.

Longer hull length of the RS is likely an advantage when it comes to top speed. But being 13-14 foot rotomolded boats, neither of them are going to have comparable speed to larger fiberglass cats.

I would expect the Wave to have better used and aftermarket parts availability given that it is now a nearly 30 year old product.

sm

As for speed... Based on the Small Catamaran Handicap Rating System (SCHRS) the RX Cat 14 is faster than the Wave. The RS Cat has a 2-up rating of 1.417 (1.385 1-up) while the Wave 1-up is 1.521 (1.524 2-up). (All numbers assume you are flying a jib when 2-up but not when 1-up and includes the spinnaker on the RS numbers.)

A1: I believe you are wrong on that point. According to the rigging manualhttps://www.rssailing.com…RSCat14RiggingManual.pdf it is not a self taking jib.

A2: The main on the RS Cat is about 9% smaller and the boat is heaver. I would expect it to be slower if you don't use the spinnaker.

A3: I would expect the two boats to be about the same in tacking ability if you are only flying the main. The jib on the RS Cat will make taking easier. Even if you are single handed, you can just leave the jib alone until the end of the tack and it will make tacking easier.

A4: Construction quality is about the same... However, there are more turning points for lines on the RS Cat which means more blocks and more chafe, which means more maintenance. For a single owner, it's probably not that big of a deal. My local sailing club had both for a time available for use by members. These were boats that got beat up for many seasons by lots of people who barely knew what they were doing. In that case, it makes a difference.

A5: If you are starting from the ground up (putting up the mast and everything.) All the extra time on the RS Cat would be in rigging the spinnaker. If you are just talking about storing with all spars attached, again the extra time will be in the added sails but it isn't a big deal. I expect it would double the time it takes to rig, but we're talking about 10 minutes for the Wave and 20 for the RS Cat (assuming you even bother with the extra sails, including the spinnaker.) However, I do not recommend keeping these boats on the water. They are light enough and durable enough to pull them on shore (they are called beach-cats for a reason.)

A6: Likely with the jib the RS Cat will point higher (everything else being equal.)

A7: Yes, but the traveller is pretty easy to deal with. All the way out when going downwind and all the way in when going up wind. Sure when you are racing there is more nuance but this is good for the typical cruse.

A final comment. I sailed Hobie Waves for 20 years before I finally got bored and pulled the trigger on a more complex boat (my Topcat K4X, much like the RS Cat 14 but a bit bigger and faster.) Even if you got the Wave, I expect you would be happy with it for a long time.



Edited by danielt1263 on Apr 14, 2024 - 08:35 PM.

If you like speed, you will get bored with a Wave. I have one but much prefer a 16 foot cat.

--
John

Nacra 5.0
CT
--