[quote=jonathan162][quote=MN3]the hobie 16 i purchased for around a grand was 13 years old at the time
On this site there is a 13 year old C2 for sale for $13,000
On this site there is a 12 year old C2 for sale for $7,900
20 year old Taipan for $6,500
10 year old Nacra 17 for $14,000
10 year old Nacra 500 for $6,500
[/quote]
And in 2001 I bought my 1987 H18 for $3500 (Canadian) and over the next
dozen years put another $5000 into it - at a time when one of the last 18s
sold new around here for close to $20K. There. I can throw numbers around
too, but it doesn't really get us any closer to understanding the the problem,
so let's not do that anymore.
[quote]A modern set of sails can easily cost over $4000 (main, jib, spin)[/quote]
And my SC19 desperately needs a new suit, but I don't have that kind of cash
to spare, so I'm sailing the beaten up old original Dacrons with totally wrong
battens. My point is that shitty sails aren't necessarily a barrier to taking a boat
out and having fun, because we're talking about average recreational sailing
and not maximum-performance racing. So once again we're talking about
something that isn't really a barrier to entry, because the boat may not [i]need[/i]
them.
[quote]Modern boats cost a LOT more to produce, ship, rig, and maintain and use
MUCH higher performance components[/quote]
Seems to me that this was already discussed and agreed on, so I don't need
any convincing. It's what I described above as "the performance virus", to
which one adds the same factors as drive up prices on everthing else in our
lives.
[quote]There are thousands of legacy boats for VERY Cheap, they are terribe condition, melting into the ground, getting softer by the day][/quote]
Things decay over time - dog bites man. If your estimate is right, and "thousands"
are in unusable states of decay, that still represents what - 1%? 10%? of the boats
built through the peak? Where are the rest?
[quote]I stand by my statement that the barriers of entry (in the US) are much stronger than they were in the 70's and 80's.
Costs, lack of launch spots, competition from sports that are easier to "rig" and transport[/quote]
It's very difficult to move research like this ahead if you bounce around between
factors - what I'm trying to do is isolate and focus on the various factors in turn.
So:
Yes, everyone's in total agreement that new fiberglass boats have priced
themselves out of the mass market. But I think there are still real questions
unresolved about the actual cost of putting a used boat in the water.
[i]Everything[/i] is (more) expensive, and a recreational item like this is no
exception, but I believe that the low prices of the many used boats out
there, when compared to the price of them new back in the 70s and 80s
(and considering inflation, of course), make their affordability now [i]better[/i]
as an adjusted percentage of our earnings than they were. But unless
there's an actual economist in our midst who can help untangle that, let's
not continue to beat it to death. I think this remains an unresolved mystery
that's key to understanding the problem.
Now, the lack of launch spots and competition from other [i]water[/i] sports
(because we're not going to learn anything by comparing sailing to pickleball)
we can consider in turn.<!-- editby --><em>Edited by jonathan162 on Feb 10, 2023 - 11:45 AM.</em><!-- end editby --> [/quote]
