I have a hobie 16 and an ancient fiddle block with what looks like a 4:1 set up on monstor blocks holding 7/16 or maybe even 1/2 sheet.
I recently checked the hobie recommendation and was shocked to learn it only recommended 3/8 swheet So I started looking and found a harken 2613 40mm carbo block w\becket($64 on ebay, gotta love it) rated for 3/8" sheet and a matching triple for the boom.
I was all happy when I got home and there was a box on the porch... then i opened it and found this TINY block. After looking it up, it appears to be rated for my sail area but i am worried the 3/8 sheet will be to thin to be easily handled even with the upgrade to 6:1
Anybody out there have any input on this? Should i be worried by the small line size or the tiny block?
blocks, does size really matter
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Posted: May 13, 2009 - 09:32 PM
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Posted: May 13, 2009 - 09:45 PM
40 mm is a bit small for main blocks but i guess they could work. (i wouldnt but i have a much larger sail and sail in 25+knots
most use the next size up (57mm if harken, 55 if ronstan)
3/8th will work on a 40mm block... but it will be tight
I use 40 mm on my spin turning block (also a 57 on the same line), but there is no wheres near the same workload
3/8th line is not small.
1/8th is small (3mm) .. that is a usable size for a main. I use 10mm line (3/8) on a 8 to 1 and a tornado sail. -
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Posted: May 13, 2009 - 09:58 PM
THANKS!!! so I guess my only worry should be, can it handle the load. the stats make me wonder as the chart below has me confused
It looks like it can handle up to 375 sq ft but my main is only 225 (standard h16) so I should be safe and stil have skin on my fingers even in high winds right???
http://www.harken.com/rigtips/mainsheet.php -
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Posted: May 14, 2009 - 08:29 AM
Never skimp on critical items. Comfort is also to be considered. If you are going to sail where you have to keep the sheet uncleated, the larger the line the easier it is, especially for hours of sailing. Also... when you really need to dump wind off your main in a hurry, the block needs to be smooth and easy with no binding.
New blocks are expensive for a reason. I have used zinc plated ACE Hardware blocks in effort to get on the water for a song on a Sol Cat... it showed me how very nice the harkens that came with my new (used) G-Cat are.
25 knot wind feels like a hurricane, one better have the right stuff. Even if you do not desire to sail in such extreme wind... if you live where thunderstorms pop up... it can happen suddenly. Hats off to Andrew for his hours at the helm.
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Posted: May 14, 2009 - 10:42 AM
Thanks Deepsees... yes i certainly put in the hours.
I also agree... don't skimp on gear that is critical (and maybe even a lifesaver in a storm).
another possiblity is to get a tapered line. this is when a thin line (lets say 4mm) runs through the blocks and is connected (spliced) to a heavy line for comfort and grip (i.e. 9mm) where it doesn't go through the blocks.
This splice can be done for you when you purchase line from a decent shop (i.e. Layline.com, NewJSI.com, etc)
edited by: andrewscott, May 14, 2009 - 10:44 AM -
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Posted: May 16, 2009 - 11:56 PM
THanks guys! I returned the 40mm and was going to get 57mm but the 75 was cheaper and i can use a bigger line so let me know what you think of this deal and yes, i know i will have an extra becket but i am guessing it will not be a problem
Harken 75mm Triple Carbo Block w/Becket HAR-2665
Price: US $99.00 Quantity:1 UPS Ground: US $8.00
Harken 75mm Triple Carbo Block W/Becket 2669 new!!
Price: US $89.99 Quantity:1 UPS Ground: US $8.95
Subtotal: US $188.99
Shipping & handling: US $16.95
Total: US $205.94
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Posted: May 18, 2009 - 01:26 PM
When I looked up the 75mm blocks they were more expensive then the 57mm and no where near $90 for a triple. One downside would be the light increase in height of the blocks.
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Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
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Posted: May 18, 2009 - 03:41 PM
those prices seem wrong to me. tripple upper and lowers should be about $400.
Also bigger isn't always better.. you dont need the 75mm for a hobie16. heck you dont need em on a 20' boat....
the 57' will fit the correct size line for you... weigh less, have less windage (wind resistance) and as mentioned above have a shorter working range/height (the gap needed for full effect) and hobie16's rake the mast back so much you need the smallest working range possible -
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Posted: May 18, 2009 - 06:36 PM
I know this will start a S*&^ storm of comments but...:)
let me preface this by saying that I am not a racer but a casual cruiser. I don't like to rake to much because it makes it difficut for my fat butt to clear the boom on tacks. On the plus side, being a big boy (5'11" 240lbs) I have no problem keeping the lee from digging in when I fly a hull
I also have a full baattened jib which is another excuse to use a little less then ideal rake as I can't stand the jib getting caught up on the mast (looking into hindged jib battens as we speak so any input would be appreciated!)
and as far as the price goes, gotta love ebay!!! and blocks are on there way. I am starting to wonder if they are hott but they are coming from a verified sellerand new so I figure i can't go wrong except for the draw down issue which i will definately be looking into
Since one of my favorite things is flying a hull to the point of a complete stall out (90 degrees and then hold the balance at a complete standstill) I rarely cleat so the bigger the main sheet the happier I am.
Does any of this make sense or am I just plain nuts??? feel free to take a shot and sound off -
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Posted: May 19, 2009 - 08:25 AM
Good luck with the blocks, let us know how you like them.
The last time I had a H16 at 90 degrees to the water it was well on its way to flipping over. I am also not small 6'8" 210, and once a H16 is at about 50-60 degrees off the water it is going over from my experience. I would love to see a picture of you holding it at 90 degrees, but with that mast horizontal to the water I don't think it is possible to keep it from going over.
I would recommend the hinged battens if you are having issues with the jib catching on the mast. Also make sure the main and jib halyard are not routed in a way that the jib is catching them.
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Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
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Posted: May 19, 2009 - 08:32 PM
Hey Scott
You may be right about the angle, I was way to close to the edge to stop and take a measurement. This I do know, I have done it both on and off a trap and you can get to a point where the main is depowered by the tramp and the sail angle. It then becomes all about the balance with no forward movement just the bob of the swells in the gulf.
This will really blow your mind but I have even smacked waves with the tip of the mast on my old 14 turbo without going over. Again, it is all about the swell, on that particular day they were running 3-5 feet and very wide apart. Did I mention I used to run a fleet of 12-15 cats off the beach in clearwater and as far as time goes, I would conservatively guess at several thousands of hours before I turned 21. I have sailed in every imaginable position including flying while standing on the boom (back then I was only about 135lbs and 15 years old)now I would probably demast myself
After a dry spell of close to 20 years, I have returned to Florida and am getting reaquainted with my old love. I moved here with an 18sx but being solo decided to downsize to a 16. To this day, I could not tell you the rules of the road or the best trim or rig in any condition but to some extent I do the right thing by learned reflex.
I am not sure you will be able to do it with your magnum. Even without the wings, it is just to much mass unless you could find someone crazy enough to try a tandem stall out. Even then, there is just something about the bigger cats. Even with the amount of time I have, I can not recall doing anything like this on anything bigger then a 16 but I am not fool enough to say it can't be done
I spent the vast majority of the first half of my life on boats and especially Hobies so it is odd for me now to consider myself a lubber because I know I have forgotten more then I ever knew:)
by the way, if you ever see a comercial for the Sheraton Sand Key with a yellow H14 with tequila sunrise sails flying a hull down the streak of the setting sun, that was me a million years ago (AKA the 80's) Flying with a helo about 50 yard in front of you is a trip!!!
As it stands now, I am about 3 weeks out for the maiden voyage of bad kitty (I posted a bunch of pics in the tech area documenting the rebuild and more are comming) It may not be the right way and it is almost certainly not "class legal" but it is good enough by me.
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Posted: May 20, 2009 - 09:19 AM
When i owned a H18 either the boat was not efficient enough (hull/rudder shape, sail plan) and/or my skill set wouldn't allow me to hold the hull up for more than about 1 minute before it stalled to the point it would drop.
on my Mystere if i have the wind ( around 12knots)... i can sail all day with the hull so high that i hear old rivets slide from windward to leaward in my beams.
I love flying a hull with my head 13 feet in the air... but this is SLOW... and i usually only do this when doing a beach run (or i see hot girls in a kayak) :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=di6eGWVVhm8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34ciKpv8jbk
edited by: andrewscott, May 20, 2009 - 09:32 AM -
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Posted: May 21, 2009 - 11:47 PM
Hey Andrew
cool vids, are they you and if so, how'de yopu get a camer man willing to go on hte water???
any way, i just got the 75mm top block and measured it. It is just under an inch longer then the factory 5:1 block but the good news is the lower will be much shorter then the fiddle block with a double hooked to the becket so I think I will come out ahead in boom clearance and still be able to put in some rake. I just dont wnat to have to play limbo every time I tack so as long as I am not buring the bows wvery time I get air, i will be happy. As soon as I get her set back up, pics will follow -
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Posted: May 22, 2009 - 09:54 AM
the video with music is my cat. i was actually the camera man and my friend Zack was steering.
The second video of 3 people on a mystere is my friend mike (catman on catsailor.com)
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