H16 when raising main sail :: Catamaran Sailboats at TheBeachcats.com

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H16 when raising main sail

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redsail16

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Feb 23, 2009

Last visit: Jul 16, 2009

Posts: 14
Posted: May 31, 2009 - 10:05 PM

This is my first summer to learn to sail and this weekend I swear I took the mast up and down five times! After I raised it and was tangle free the last time the main sail would not go to the top. The sail stopped about a foot and half from the top. Anyone have any ideas how to prevent this?
Also, when I raised the jib it seemed to be hitting the mast (I did not have the jib sheets hooked to the bottom though). If I hook up the the bottom with it pull the jib away from the mast?
Needless to say I hauled the boat 150 miles and never got to sail her
turbohobo

Rank: Mate

Registered: Oct 19, 2006

Last visit: Aug 16, 2017

Posts: 613
Posted: May 31, 2009 - 11:30 PM

Welcome redsail16, here you can learn to sail from the comfort of your armchair, eliminating time-consuming delays better spent sailing. Easiest way to raise the mast is to purchase mast step link pin, (http://www.murrays.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=01-3021&Category_Code=C-MR&Store_Code=MS), attaches base of mast to mast step on forward crossbar.

With Cat strapped down to trailer, lay mast across tramp with base touching mast step, gently lower mast untill mast head touches ground, now walk around to front of cat and push down firmly on mast base untill mast step link pin lines up with connecting hole on mast base, insert pin making sure you use hole marked H16(there are 2 holes in the mast step link pin marked H14/H16). Make sure the pin is slightly smaller than the holes on the mast step link pin and mast base and inserts easily. When the mast step link pin is connected, gently release mast which should now lay across tramp frame with the mast head off of the ground. You can now connect forestay and shrouds. At this point make sure you have something safe/stable to enable you to step up onto the tramp from the ground. With a friend standing in front holding on to the forestay, walk around to mast head and raise mast over your head, hand over hand it up as you walk towards the tramp, step up carefully onto the tramp with your friend pulling the forestay untill the mast is vertical, have friend connect forestay to shroud adjuster.

If you have the use of a beach and can beach the cat, this will make things a lot easier. Otherwise check out how to build your own mast step setup using the Technical Help Gallery link at the top left of this web-page. Before raising the mast, make sure the wire halyard with the 2 nicopress stoppers passes easily through the sheave head (roller on top of mast), sometimes those nicopress stoppers get pretty mangled and hang up on the sheave head. As the sail nears the mast head, do not pull halyard straight down, pull at a 35 degree angle away from the mast, this allows the nicopress stopper to pass over the halyard hook, once the stopper has passed the hook, pull halyard straight down so stopper slides into the V of the halyard hook, this effectively secures the halyard. To release, you have to haul halyard down and away from mast to release nicopress stopper.

Easy Huh, with a little practice at home, you can make it look easy when you pull up at the lake, dont forget to slip gooeneck assembly on boom into sailtrack and tighten downhaul, also remember to remove mast step link pin so that mast rotates freely. Post any/all other questions here.

edited by: turbohobo, Jun 01, 2009 - 04:33 AM

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TurboHobo
H14T
H16
P18
G-Cat 5.0
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redsail16

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Feb 23, 2009

Last visit: Jul 16, 2009

Posts: 14
Posted: Jun 01, 2009 - 12:10 AM

Robert,
Thanks for the advice, I do have the mast step link pin. It just really sucks to get that far and have the sail not go all the way up. What is weird is that when the sail isn't attached the cable will go all the way threw the sheave head. I am going to make another attempt to sail this week I have been to the lake twice and have yet to set sail because of hang ups like this. Any other ideas on what I can do to prevent the sail from hanging up?
UFgator

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Dec 09, 2008

Last visit: Apr 06, 2011

Posts: 99
Posted: Jun 01, 2009 - 08:09 AM

Robert has it right. If you're having difficulty raising your sail it's probably one of two things. If you mast is rigged with a sail guide where you insert the sail into the mast luff track. These things are notoriously bad about binding the bolt rope along the luff side of the sail. You can remove it and it helps. But be carefull raise the sail slowly as to not damage it by pulling up too quickly.

The second most common problem and I have this from time to time is getting the nicopress caught on the halyard hook. When your mast is down take a close look at the halyard and mast head. There are two nicopress fittings, the plug looking thing on the halyard wire near the top end. These are used to stop the halyard from falling back and lowering the sail. One is for reefing or partially lowering and the other is for full sail. On the front side of your mast just below the mast head there is a bracket with an angeled v notch. This is where that nicopress will stop.

When you raise your sail you will most likely be standing right in front of the mast. If you pull straight down the halyard wire will want to follow in that grove on the halyard hook. As your pulling up it will stop when the first nicopress hits the top of that hook. You need to step away from the mast as you raise the sail. Like Robert said about 35 degrees. pull the halyard slowly and watch the cable come out of the mast head. Have someone guide the sail into the track as you do this. You'll see the nicopress fitting as it comes around the head. Once the sail is fully raised you'll see the second nicopress. While pulling the halyard down guide the halyard wire against the front of the mast and try to put it in the halyard hook. Slowly release tension on the halyard and the top nicropress will stop in the hook. The halyard will become limp and then you can tie it off on the mast halyard cleat.

If you pull the halyard while the mast is down you can get an idea of what kind of angle it takes to keep the nicopress fitting from striking the top of the halyard hook thus causing your problem. It takes some practice and some getting used to but once you find your own technique you be doing this blind.

Good luck and don't give up.
redsail16

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Feb 23, 2009

Last visit: Jul 16, 2009

Posts: 14
Posted: Jun 01, 2009 - 11:59 AM

Sounds good I'll keep you guys posted.
mma600psi

Rank: Mate

Registered: Mar 08, 2008

Last visit: Feb 05, 2017

Posts: 247
Posted: Jun 01, 2009 - 01:18 PM

redsail16Sounds good I'll keep you guys posted.

I would practice setting it up at your house or a nearby park if you don't have room. Also make sure the boat is facing the wind so it doesn't catch the wind when you raise the sails. Always raise the jib last.
I had the same issue when I first started and it was a nightmare. It is definitely that second stopper. Once you get the feel of it you shouldn't have any issues.
UFgator

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Dec 09, 2008

Last visit: Apr 06, 2011

Posts: 99
Posted: Jun 01, 2009 - 02:02 PM

Great point!

When responding to questions like these it's easy to take for granted what you do as second nature and not write it. Setting up with the cat facing into the wind is probably the single most important step when hoisting the sail.
MN3

Rank: Master Chief

Registered: Jun 20, 2006

Last visit: May 22, 2024

Posts: 7089
Posted: Jun 01, 2009 - 04:15 PM

i agree... set it up in your yard (into the wind.. or you could end up in the neighbors yard)...

if it wasnt mentioned above (i just skimmed the othere posts) maybe clean your mast track and lubricate it with a rag and silicone

- i wrap a peice of a pencil in a t-shirt rag and soak it in silicone lube then run it up and down the track 3 times..
Spray_in_the_face

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Jan 22, 2009

Last visit: Nov 23, 2014

Posts: 99
Posted: Jun 01, 2009 - 09:49 PM

Yes, as Andrewscott said about the silicone spray. This makes the sail go up much easier and cleans all the aluminum oxide out of the mast. It looks much better on a old rag than it does on your sails.
H16-71388

Rank: Lubber

Registered: May 08, 2009

Last visit: Jun 11, 2010

Posts: 46
Posted: Jun 03, 2009 - 03:03 PM

When I first got my H16, my 10y/o daughter took it over to the local school, and practiced putting it together. No need to make a fool of ourselves in front of the others. So kudos for practicing. Face into the wind, cause there is nothing like trying to sail off the trailer.

To answer your question, like Andrew said silicone spray helps. Dont use WD-40 (i dont remember why, but thats what everyone says). I know my mainsail catches on at the transition between the aluminum mast and the comp tip, when the third panel reaches it, but thats cause the sail material around the luff rope, and batten caps is frayed. I have to "giggle" the sail up and down, till it passes the area.
birdlaw

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Apr 14, 2005

Last visit: Jun 08, 2009

Posts: 4
Posted: Jun 06, 2009 - 01:22 AM

I am sailing again after about a 15 year lay off. I had a hard time the first few ups and downs. These are what help me

1) Raise with her into the wind.
2) Silicone Spray is your friend.
3) Tug on the halyard from out past the bows.....it gives the halyard hook more room to clear the catch. When it is clear the catch, move in close to the mast to hook it.
4) Have an assistant sit on the tramp and push up on the batten close to to the entry to the luff track with the heel of thier hands...it is amazing how much that helps especially when the sail is binding in the luff track.
5) Get a foot long piece of broom handle.....wrap the halyard around that a time or two in overlapping turns....DONT TIE IT....and use that to help pull down on the halyard.

Some of these things may not be really the "right" answer, but we used to have to rig in all sorts of crazy scenarios....like with the boat not in the wind (not a good thing but unavoidable due to where we had to park the trailer and where we had room to rig) or when we were so hot and exhausted from trying to back a trailer in sand with a 2 wheel drive car and ended up having to move the trailer by hand with the boat on it. this last one resulted in the broom handle helper....we were so tired from fighting the trailer and the sand that tuggin on that tiny cord was impossible.

Cursing seems to help, but I have no scientific data to back that up, other than that is what dad used to do.....

HTH

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H16
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PDS624

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Apr 14, 2008

Last visit: Apr 07, 2013

Posts: 87
Posted: Jun 06, 2009 - 10:30 PM

Hey Redsail16 welcome to the club.

I think the others covered the biggies but 1 thing to be sure of, the down haul should not be put in the mast track until after you get the main raised all the way.

You also may want to be sure your outhaul is slack as this could distort the sail shape and cause it to jam or jump the track just before getting it all the way up.

Odds are the other tips will solve your problem so take this as a "plan B"

Oh yeah, the other little thing, take a good look at the track to see if it pinches in. If it has a dent or ding on the track, all is not lost. A little "gentle" pursuasion can get it back in shape. I think I saw something on this in the tech tips area a couple years back
redsail16

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Feb 23, 2009

Last visit: Jul 16, 2009

Posts: 14
Posted: Jun 08, 2009 - 01:30 AM

Thanks so much for the advice, I took got to sail both days this weekend.
The first day was pretty weak 5mph, but good considering I was just learning... DAY two was quite the opposite adventure with a SSE at 20-25mph. I only raised the mainsail with no jib and I almost flew a hull (on accident).
I had a lot of people watching me sail (I was sailing by a well populated recreation area) and after I beached I had about 8 people come up and ask: "What do you call that kind of boat?" and "Where do you get something like that?"...
Not gonna lie, in that kind of wind on day number two of sailing I thought I was going to be toast, but I just let it happen and it ended up grabbing peoples attention lol!
kinlawk

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Mar 25, 2009

Last visit: Jun 15, 2010

Posts: 54
Posted: Jun 08, 2009 - 09:57 AM

I was out sailing a couple of weeks ago and the main sail go jammed and would not come down. After fighting it for about 30 minutes i beached the boat(it was tied to the dock) layed the boat on it side and fixed the problam. Don't forget that the boat weighs nothing so you and a buddy can just lay it on it's side and fix it next time.
redsail16

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Feb 23, 2009

Last visit: Jul 16, 2009

Posts: 14
Posted: Jun 08, 2009 - 03:44 PM

Did you flip the boat into the water?
kinlawk

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Mar 25, 2009

Last visit: Jun 15, 2010

Posts: 54
Posted: Jun 08, 2009 - 03:56 PM

no i did it all on the beach. I had to change the halyard.

edited by: kinlawk, Jun 08, 2009 - 03:56 PM
MN3

Rank: Master Chief

Registered: Jun 20, 2006

Last visit: May 22, 2024

Posts: 7089
Posted: Jun 08, 2009 - 05:41 PM

it isnt rare that someone has to flip the cat on its side to get a main down, untangle a line, etc.

it just takes a couple people... and some room. its really no big deal.. but you may want to protect the cat from scrapping around on rocks/sand... make sure you have enough people (3 or 4) to handle it.. and make sure you hold the mast up and dont drop it in the sand/water as this can invite dirt/sand and troubles into your mast/track/etc
Spray_in_the_face

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Jan 22, 2009

Last visit: Nov 23, 2014

Posts: 99
Posted: Jun 08, 2009 - 06:18 PM

Redsail, sounds like your getting the hang of it. A couple more times out with good success you'll be a cat junkie in no time.

Break downs and hang ups really chap my behind. Once you conquer it, that's one less thing to plague you in the future.

good luck

Jim
UFgator

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Dec 09, 2008

Last visit: Apr 06, 2011

Posts: 99
Posted: Jun 08, 2009 - 07:37 PM

Welcome to the cat sailing addiction Redsail.
turbohobo

Rank: Mate

Registered: Oct 19, 2006

Last visit: Aug 16, 2017

Posts: 613
Posted: Jun 08, 2009 - 11:13 PM

Well done redsail, now you know what it's like. There will be days when you drag yourself home every muscle aching from a day of awesome sailing, totally wiped and you can't wait for the next sail.

There will also be days of pure terror and you wonder why you ever got into catsailing. Take this past Saturday for example, I get to the lake, wind is shrieking 25-35 mph, well I just drove over an hr to get to the lake so I'm going sailing, I take my time rigging the boat, adjust the tension on my cam rudders and put the boat into the water in this protected little cove. I drift out gently, come around the protecting bluff and ...WHAM, wind hits, I was expecting it but when the wind hit my traveler blew way over, I had the mainsail out but because the traveler was way over, I had to broadreach, almost at right angle to the wind, the waves were almost 3 ft high and every time a wave hit the boat, I thought I was going over, I'm hooked into the footstrap and laying out, I can't get the traveler adjusted to get closehauled, absolute terror, I s**t my baggies, and hope to make the other side of the lake. Where I launch from, the mainroad runs over the lake on a causeway, I'm upwind and if I go over there is no way I'm going to bring the boay back up, not by myself and not in those winds, I would just drift down onto those d**n rocks. I made the other side safely, tacked, adjusted the traveler, and headed back to the safety of the sheltered cove, beached the cat and just sat on the bank my legs were shaking so bad.

But hey, that was Saturday, know better now, wont do that again in a hurry, can't wait for my next sail.

edited by: turbohobo, Jun 09, 2009 - 02:47 PM

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TurboHobo
H14T
H16
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