Agreed thanks for this. It will help many future Prindle sailors. I will double check the tightness of my locking bolt to make sure it is also moving freely. Not sure if it has anything to do with it but can't hurt.
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Dustin Finlinson • Magna, UT
Member: Utah Sailing Association
1982 Prindle 18
1986 Hobie 17
1982 Prindle 16
1980 Prindle 16(mostly)
1976 Prindle 16(mostly)
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Prindle 16 rudder adjustment
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Posted: Sep 05, 2012 - 05:30 PM
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Posted: Sep 05, 2012 - 08:29 PM
The "locking bolt", situated in the rudder, must be tight, the "locking pin", situated on the rudder casting, must have enough play to move up and down, some make the mistake of overtightening the locknut, preventing the "locking pin" from moving. Clear as mud huh....
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TurboHobo
H14T
H16
P18
G-Cat 5.0
P16
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Posted: Sep 13, 2012 - 12:53 PM
TurboHobo,
Just got a chance to check out your Prindle Rudder Mechanism album, very nice! Reads like a novel and even though I've never had a Prindle I now feel qualified to put the rudder system together.
http://www.thebeachcats.c…ictures/?g2_itemId=89541
Thanks,
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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN
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Posted: Sep 13, 2012 - 10:48 PM
once you get through the learning curve for the prindle rudders, they work great and adjusting/tuning is easy. i went through mine the first season i had the boat and they still work perfect, i just inspect them regularly...i replaced the lines again this spring and did it ten times faster than the first time. solid glass is nice...
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bill harris
hattiesburg, mississippi
prindle 16- "BLUE RIBBON"
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Posted: Sep 14, 2012 - 10:15 PM
Coastrat and I went through mine, and they work perfectly. 0 issues.
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Prindle 18 aka Yellowtail. On the beautiful Mississippi gulf coast. Gautier / Independent Republic of Vancleave / Ocean Springs. Lot's to learn about these boats.
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Posted: Mar 27, 2014 - 04:59 PM
Just a note... While adjusting the Prindle 16 rudder, make VERY sure to keep your fingers out of harm's way if the rudder should happen to fall while you are installing pieces... Just found out the hard way that this is a good idea...
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Mike
1975 Prindle restoration project "Sanchah"
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Posted: Apr 08, 2014 - 10:02 PM
Prindle 16 rudder issues lockdown issues... On page 4 of the Photo Albums there is a set of pictures (posted by etrader) showing an "alternative lockdown" for Prindle rudders (metal pins in holes drilled through the casting and rudder) Seems like this would lead to disaster if rudder hits anything solid at speed. But... what if instead of a metal pin, one used a wooden dowel or some other type of breakaway material (that would break, theoretically, if the rudder hit anything solid). Might this eliminate the rudder flopping issue? Seems like you could carry a few of the dowels in a pocket somewhere in case one broke... Any thoughts?
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Mike
1975 Prindle restoration project "Sanchah"
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Posted: Apr 09, 2014 - 07:15 AM
Hmmm! too many unknowns here, what is the "shear strength" of the wooden dowel as opposed to the "shear strength" of the aged transom? If you look closely at those pics I noticed that he has clamps around the springs on his rudders, why??? also this alternative negates any adjustment to rudder rake. I do think that this method would be an option for trailering the Prindle rudders up using wood/nylon/plastic dowels but not a good idea for sailing rudders down.
Mike, are u having some difficulty with your rudder lockdown? if so, feel free to contact me anytime and I will be happy to walk you through any issues you may be having. I find that most of the Prindle rudder problems can be resolved with just a little "tweaking", in some cases parts of the mechanism have to be replaced but cost is minimal.
http://www.thebeachcats.c…ictures/?g2_itemId=89541
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Posted: Apr 09, 2014 - 07:21 AM
PM sent....
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Posted: Apr 09, 2014 - 11:41 AM
Once you get the rudders set you will be fine...I love the reassuring clunk-thud sound it makes when they lock in, no clunk thud, no lock. Sure they are a bid more complicated to set up the first time, but that's it once they are done they are set.
I took my rudders completely apart and replaced most of the bolts, all sheaves and spacers as well as the line. I found that the locking pin bolts were bent ever so slightly, and everything else was worn out. Also check your castings, I had one that bent way out that I needed to replace. I did this on the bench for the sake of my fingers
Once they were re mounted I adjusted them as stated in the instructions from the factory along with mast rake and it was balanced the first time out of the gate. I'd suggest using a yard stick on the transom to set the rudder rake.
I'd deal with the issues and get them to work like the factory suggested, on a 40 year old boat there will be plenty of other things to keep you busy.
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Bob Miller
1983 P16 Sail # 7312
"Miller Time" A work in progress; out of the water for 16 years
Barnegat Bay NJ
Beach Cat Lesson #1 - A free cat isn't
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Posted: Apr 09, 2014 - 03:05 PM
The only real issue we are having with the lockdown is kelp... Every time we sail over some kelp the rudder comes up... Of course then it sheds the kelp and we can haul it back down... I guess that's better than dragging the kelp around. Of course I suppose we could avoid the kelp, but there is one heck of a lot of it around Monterey... Just sort of looking around for some method that would haul down the rudder quickly and easily after it comes up....???
Here's another idea I haven't tried yet... What if I used some small diameter bungee cord on the down line?
Seems like that would add a bit of tension to the system and help hold the rudder down... I could tie a knot in
the line at the top where it exits the tiller so that the tension would be "correct". Theoretically the rudder
would still kick up when needed, but it would almost haul itself back down... Of course this is predicated on the
idea that I could find the correct diameter bungee cord... Hmmm? Downsides? Whatcha think?
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Mike
1975 Prindle restoration project "Sanchah"
Retired Teacher
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Posted: Apr 10, 2014 - 05:42 AM
You can adjust the locking bolt so that it takes more pressure to kick up when sailing in kelp, but remember when coming into the beach it will also take more pressure to release. If sailing on a lake you can stop before the shore and pull on the bottom of the rudders to release if you have done this. Also when the rudder does kick up or release when you hit something in the water it is best, if possible to make sure you use the pull up line and raise the rudder as high as possible and then use the pull down line and pull hard while releasing the pull up line and this way the rudder will have some force when it hits the water and will be easier to relock in position. Trying to relock the rudder when it is still in the water can be a little difficult. -
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Posted: Apr 10, 2014 - 08:02 AM
If all components in the rudder system are in good shape, the Prindle rudders are a proven system. The anchor pin and locking pin are straight, the locking bolt is straight and the lip on the lock-bolt is not worn, the springs are not stretched out, the half-round load spreaders are not cracked and decaying, the rudder lines are reaved correctly, the upper and lower rudder sheaves are in good condition and the rudder line is in good condition and is 5/32" low stretch line, all sheaves, upper and lower, have SS spacers, the lock release straps are setup correctly with the sheave and nylon spacer; the system will work. Why try improve on an already proven system?
anchor pin is straight...
locking pin is straight and springs are not stretched out....
the lock release mechanism is setup correctly with sheave and nylon spacer, when you pull on the "up" line, the tension lifts the lock-pin and frees the lock-bolt....
the upper sheaves are in good condition and spin freely, notice the SS washers between sheaves?
the rudder lines are reaved correctly, one on either side of the tiller connector bolt, 1/4" aluminum tubing makes good "T" handles, balls work ok.....
rudder lines are reaved in straight lines to their corresponding sheaves to eliminate binding....
locking bolt is straight, lip is not worn from incorrect alignment on locking pin and half-round load spreaders are in good shape...
Now go sail and stay away from kelp, try sailing further out into the ocean......
(PS, many thanks to turbohobo for his outstanding album..
)
Edited by the-renovator on Apr 10, 2014 - 08:24 AM. -
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Posted: Apr 10, 2014 - 11:34 AM
Excellent post and pictures renovator!
It's similar to the "problem" with the pre-1987 rudder casting system on the Hobie 18 with the metal cam.
The system worked perfectly fine while it was in good shape, the problem was after parts started wearing out. (20 years later) Unfortunately that system can't really be fixed once it goes bad. At least the Prindle system can be rebuilt.
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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN
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Posted: Apr 11, 2014 - 08:08 AM
X2 On renovator's post
Plus, I'd bet you a beer that the lock pin bolt is bent or set too loose
Re: your shock cord idea: I don't see how you could rig up a line that is taught enough to provide downward pressure while the rudders are down yet enough stretch to allow them to kick up? Besides Prindle rudder blades and castings are worth their weight in gold.... don't go drilling holes in them.
Assuming your lock bolts are in good shape ( sometimes they get bent too) you could and should go thru your rudders and replace the line and sheaves/roller/spacers for $20 Before you try to rig up something on you own I'd spend the time to make sure your current system is working properly. The lock bolts are $35 each but I think cost rat has a post on a DIY w/ a SS carriage bolt and a grinder
http://www.murrays.com/mm…merchant.mvc?Screen=SRCH
Not that I'm the expert on sailing my P16 but my home bay is very shallow and I've found that when a rudder kicks up especially the lee rudder that its very difficult to pull the rudder down against the forward momentum of the water. I sheet out or if I have enough rudder, head up and lock it in.
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Bob Miller
1983 P16 Sail # 7312
"Miller Time" A work in progress; out of the water for 16 years
Barnegat Bay NJ
Beach Cat Lesson #1 - A free cat isn't
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Posted: Apr 11, 2014 - 03:58 PM
Hi guys... Back again... I was just wondering if anybody had tried the "bungee (shock) cord on the pulldown line" idea before... I've been through the rudders and they are adjusted correctly... I can pull them down and lock them and they stay as long as I don't hit kelp... Actually, it's sort of a benefit when they kick up in the kelp. The kelp then slides off the rudder instead of getting dragged along... I was just trying to figure out an easier way of pulling them back down when I'm out of the kelp again. I had pretty much given up on the idea in "etraders" photo album (about drilling the holes and adding pins). I agree that the Prindle rudder system is pretty good. It's just that pesky "pulling the rudders back down after they kick up" issue that has me thinking... Soooo, if nobody has tried it before, I may just go ahead and give it a test and see what happens... I can always go back to the standard line that I have if it doesn't work... Who knows? It may revolutionize Prindle rudder technology... Or not!... I'm having delusions of being the Thomas Edison of Prindle catamarans... ... I'll let you know how it works out if and when I finally get around to trying it...
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Mike
1975 Prindle restoration project "Sanchah"
Retired Teacher
Newbie Sailor
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Posted: Apr 11, 2014 - 04:02 PM
BTW... I too am eternally grateful to Turbohobo for the excellent photos regarding the rudder lines and rudder adjustments...
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Mike
1975 Prindle restoration project "Sanchah"
Retired Teacher
Newbie Sailor
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