Ahoy! Let me begin by thanking you all for sharing your knowledge. I have been lurking here for quite some time and have been able to learn a great deal.
Recently I rescued a 1981 Prindle 18 from an airport hanger where it had been trapped for the last 15 years. The boat was in great condition but the previous owner had never even stepped the mast so was useless to assist me with the rigging. I have been able to rig and use the boat with the main only based on the owners manual but I can not figure out the jib rigging. There appear to be several other active posting Prindle 18 owners in the ranks here and I am hoping one of you will take pity on me and take some pictures of you jib rigging next time you set up or refer me to someplace that will help me out.
Thanks
Rider_55
Prindle 18 Jib rigging assistance
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Posted: Jun 26, 2009 - 12:16 AM
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Posted: Jun 26, 2009 - 06:55 AM
Posting your location always helps, there may be sailors in your area willing to help. -
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Posted: Jun 26, 2009 - 09:23 AM
and more spacific questions can be answered.... -
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Posted: Jun 26, 2009 - 10:46 AM
I am located in central Arkansas.
Basically I need pictures of the rigging for the jib sail from the clew back I can't sort out the blocks or lines in this area. I can raise the jib but am clueless on the running rigging configuration.
Thanks
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Posted: Jun 26, 2009 - 11:08 AM
The manuals are available for free to download on the Internet. Or you can simple contact Performance Catamarans out in Cali - they'll send you one. Nice people. I believe the 18 has the same setup as my 18-2. The 18-2/19 manual can be downloaded from THIS site (http://www.thebeachcats.com/index.php?module=pictures&g2_itemId=35451).
If you've steeped the mast, than you've obviously had the forestay attached. The forestay is a two-piece unit. A double short piece for the top with which one side connects to the mast tang, the other end connectes to the bigger, lower piece by a 1-inch shackle and the loose end is for the jib halyard to go through. There's a steel ring which hangs free and the connecting point. This is for the jib s-hook to hook on to. The ring MUST face inward (down).
Your jib halyard is also a 2-piece design with two brummel hooks. It runs through the ring and through the free end of the top piece of the forestay. Not this is very VERY important:
1. BOTH up and down halyards must run through the ring.
2. The s-hook must hook onto the shackle on the jib so that the open end faces down to catch the ring.
3. MOST IMPORTANT OF ALL: Test the jib halyard BEFORE you step the mast!!! The brummel hooks will NOT go through the forestay loop. If you have it on the wrong side, you will not be able to pull on the halyard to raise the jib. The idea is when you hook the halyard s-hook to the small shackle on the jib and pull it up, when it's raised, all the left over halyard line doesn't need to be coiled. You simply unclip the brummel hooks and store the halyard. So before stepping the mast, make sure that you can pull the halyard and the s-hook travels up. Discovering this after the mast has been stepped is a royal pain in the ass!
Mast stepped, shrouds connected, forestay clipped. Attach the halyard s-hook to the shackle on the jib and if there's a zipper pouch , run BOTH halyard ends through the zipper. Just hold on to the zipper with one hand as your hoist the jib up on the halyard with the other. The zipper will zip up because you're just holding it. Pull the jib all the way up and through the ring, then let it settle back down and it will hook onto the ring. Unclip the brummel hooks and stow the excess halyard. There might be a small jib downhaul string on the sail with a cam cleat on the jib. Run the string through the forestay shackle, back up through the cleat and pull tight to take out any wrinkles or slop in your jib.
Two other notes:
Ignore the manual when it says to tie a small line to your jib clew and then to the blocks. Forget it. Just shackle your jib blocks right to the jib clew itself.
Don't forget to tie a piece of bungie as a jib jam preventor. Just tie a bungie to the front crossbar, run it up and around the mast and tie off on the other side. You're making a triangle. This prevents the jib blocks from getting caught under the mast foot when you tack. It's a tiny little thing, but it really helps. It sucks to be right in the middle of a tack and wonder why you can't get the jib to come across, only to realize that the blocks are caught up in the bottom of the mast.
Hope this helps!
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Posted: Jun 26, 2009 - 01:17 PM
I'll try an work up an illustration but the gist is this. You have 2 short cables that come out of your hulls at the ports about midway. you want to take a small line 1/8th inch is what I have and tie them together straight across the tramp.
So you connect to one run the line across the tramp and in the center of the tramp you have a line of grommets. These are some sort of adjustment for the Jib that I am to inexperienced to really use yet so for now pick whichever set is closest to straight across. Run the line down the first one then back up the one directly across from it. Then tie to the other cable on the other side pulling them taught.
Now you should have 2 sets of ratcheting blocks that have a cleats on one end these connect to the ends of the 2 cables. They connect with a small shackle. Now you can shackle right to clew as listed above. I have a small line with 2 tails coming off that I tie to the blocks but it will work either way.
The Jib line will tie off to one of the jib blocks on the tramp, travel to the block on the Jib Clew on the same side of the mast that the block you first tied it to is on. Go through the block and right back to the first block you started from then through it and through it's cleat. Across the tramp and through the opposite block in reverse, going thorough the cleat then around the block. Then on that side of the mast go to the other block on the Jib cleat and through it. Then back to the jib block you just cam from and tie it off. Clear as mud right. I will most likely make since once your doing it.
With the jib up practice a bit pulling the line back and forth moving the jib from one side to the other to make sure everything is moving smoothly and you haven't run something through funny. Once you get it it makes sense. Also by testing this way you will see what Doug means by the Jib blocks getting hung up under the mast.
Doug I may need more info on this or some pics. I jury rigged my Jib Halyard and pretty sure it is not right even though it works. I put a small block on the pigtail of the top forstay and essentially made what is equivalent to a pulley system you use to raise a flag up a flagpole or curtains. It had another small block it goes through on the bottom. If I don't put the stupid thing on upside down so I have to tip the boat over and fix it. Then I pull down on one side raising the other to lift the jib. I have had trouble setting the ring from time to time. The entire loop goes through the ring at the top.
Are Brummel hooks the same thing as Sister clips. I am not sure what these are do you have a picture of these and how they work.
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Dustin Finlinson • Magna, UT
Member: Utah Sailing Association
1982 Prindle 18
1986 Hobie 17
1982 Prindle 16
1980 Prindle 16(mostly)
1976 Prindle 16(mostly)
Check out "Prindle Sailors" on Facebook.
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Posted: Jun 26, 2009 - 01:29 PM
Gentlemen
Thanks for the help! I will try to rig it next time I get out on the water. I guess my confusion was stemming from all the hardware mounted on the front crossbar. (2 single blocks and cleats each side)which it thought were part of the jib rigging but maybe they were part of a spinnaker system that was installed on the boat at one time. -
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Posted: Jun 26, 2009 - 01:44 PM
My p18 has no spinnaker and no blocks mounted on the front crossbar. I wish the Jib blocks were there on mine I really don't like them on the tramp like they are. Bad for the knees. Mine is 1982 so setup should pretty similar minus an added Spinnaker.
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Dustin Finlinson • Magna, UT
Member: Utah Sailing Association
1982 Prindle 18
1986 Hobie 17
1982 Prindle 16
1980 Prindle 16(mostly)
1976 Prindle 16(mostly)
Check out "Prindle Sailors" on Facebook.
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Posted: Jun 26, 2009 - 03:04 PM
Something like this
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Dustin Finlinson • Magna, UT
Member: Utah Sailing Association
1982 Prindle 18
1986 Hobie 17
1982 Prindle 16
1980 Prindle 16(mostly)
1976 Prindle 16(mostly)
Check out "Prindle Sailors" on Facebook.
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Posted: Jun 26, 2009 - 06:22 PM
If you have cam cleats and fairleads mounted on the front crossbar, they are more than likely for a barber hauler not a spinaker. That would be a good thing. Please describe where they are mounted and what they look like if you can not post a picture. -
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Posted: Jun 26, 2009 - 07:02 PM
Yep, the barberhauler on a P18 should have a cheek block very close the ends of the front crossbar, with a V cleat closer to the center. You run a single line from the jib sheet where the barbarhauler hooks to it, through the cheek block (in the tramp side, out the front) straight along the crossbar, passing both cleats, then in the front of the cheek block on the other side, out the back and to the jib sheet.
While it is functional, its a pretty horrible system because the cleat to adjust the barberhauler is always on the leeward side of the boat, and the line usually jammed in there pretty good.
If your cleats and blocks are like I described, I can post a pic of mine if you still need help.
The way to rig the jib sheet itself is exactly as Quarath shows in the diagram above.
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Rob
OKC
Pile of Nacra parts..
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Posted: Jun 26, 2009 - 11:15 PM
You can move the P-18 jib blocks to the front crossbar by adding a track like the H-16. Then move the bridle anchors 18" forward and make a slightly longer pair of bridle wires so that you don't need to change forestay. I've done it to several boats and notice no difference in performance except cleaner tramp for crew. Pete 909-800-5237 Big Bear, Ca -
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Posted: Jun 27, 2009 - 09:08 AM
The graphic is great, I have the line mentioned below in my current set up, I am yanking it:
I also have the barberhauler mentioned by Rider 55 and Yurdle. Currently the set up does not seem quite right: It pulls the jib sheet out some, but seems like it could be more effective.
edited by: kgatesman, Jun 27, 2009 - 08:09 AM -
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Posted: Jun 27, 2009 - 11:06 AM
After additional research stemming from this discussion what is installed is definitely a barberhauler system.
Quarath- Excellent diagram! Any chance of getting a similar diagram for a barberhauler setup?
I believe I have the hardware to run either setup. What are the advantages of one method over the other.
Thanks for all the assistance. -
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Posted: Jun 27, 2009 - 03:46 PM
As I don't have one on my boat and have never seen one or even know what it does it would be pretty difficult to diagram.
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Dustin Finlinson • Magna, UT
Member: Utah Sailing Association
1982 Prindle 18
1986 Hobie 17
1982 Prindle 16
1980 Prindle 16(mostly)
1976 Prindle 16(mostly)
Check out "Prindle Sailors" on Facebook.
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Posted: Jun 27, 2009 - 04:37 PM
It is not a case of either, or, the barber hauler is used with the jib sheets.
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Posted: Jun 28, 2009 - 07:52 AM
Is there a simpler system possible? I have a P18-2 that misses the complete jib system, so I'll have to get all the parts anyway, but I was wondering if it would not be possible to make it simpler, even if at the cost of performance. -
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Posted: Jun 28, 2009 - 11:09 AM
Simpler system for the jib sheet and blocks or barberhauler?
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Rob
OKC
Pile of Nacra parts..
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Posted: Jun 28, 2009 - 04:53 PM
What are you missing? I have the ratchet jib blocks, s hooks, jib halyard, clew blocks as well. That is everything you will need except the jib.
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Posted: Jun 29, 2009 - 10:40 AM
The barberhauler is only for broad reaching (since we don't downwind our cats). You want the jib sheet to be more in-line with the hulline going up to the jib clew. So the barberhaul simply changes the angle of the sheet to the jib by pulling it out towards the far edge of the boat rather than halfway in on the trampoline. Yes, some. It may not seem like much, but every little bit helps. That's a normal impression. Ideally the line should be continuous and long enough to control from the windward side just like the jib sheet, ut it's not necessary. Typically when sailing broad or trying to do the "wild thing", it takes the crew to be on the leeward side anyway.
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