I'm curious, Is there a general rule that cat sailors recognize as conditions being too windy?
I went out today when the wind was blowing 15-20 mph, but when we got way out in the bay, all helll broke loose. We were getting wind that was 25mph and gusts 30-40 mph. We had a unbelievable time! The wind speed became greater the more the day went on. Finally we had to call it quits. It really got too crazy. The trampoline just become awash with whitewater about 40% of the time. When we hit one foot waves at the speed we were traveling, the spray was heavy over the hulls and was also blowing up through the mess tramp in a serious way. I also snapped the hiking stick clean off. I was left with a 18 inch hiking stick. I was really impressed with the 16 prindle, I was certain we were going to have a serious failure, but no, it held up very well. Breaking the hiking stick was my fault. It was laying on the tramp parallel with rear crossbeam when we slammed onto a big wave doing about 18mph.
I just wondering how many cat owners push it in heavy weather. At what point will the sails rip ect.
What's too windy?
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Posted: Jun 28, 2009 - 08:13 PM
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Posted: Jun 28, 2009 - 10:06 PM
We were out on Lake Michigan today in 25+ steady with gusts to 40mph, and 2-4 foot waves. At least that is what the weather station had reported when I got home. It was a little much for me to be out very long. We had 2 on my H18M and did not use the jib. We had probably 20-25 boats at the water on the beach but probably less then 10 went out and most of us didn't go out for very long at any one time. I am most comfortable in the 15-20mph range and can sail there for extended time periods. Much over that take enough concentration I don't go out for more then an 45 min to an hour at a time before needing a break.
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Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
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Posted: Jun 28, 2009 - 11:52 PM
Scott..Today on Lake Michigan is the definition of too windy for me. My son and I went for a 50+ bike ride instead. Stopped down at the beach. There was carnage (there always is). I don't have a furling jib yet but even if I did, I don't venture out in conditions like today. It just is not fun. Especially after yesterday. I do hope you got out. That was a near perfect day. For me 10-15 is perfect/ I can enjoy 15-20 with the right crew weight. Crazy winds like today, I can't put enough weight on my 5.8 to keep her safe. You are out there praying that something does not break or you won't be able to handle the next banger that hits the sail. Its no picnic going over in this stuff either. -
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Posted: Jun 29, 2009 - 12:00 AM
You guys did'nt have 30-40 mph gusts the most the wind was blowing was 19mph today and since when did you put a knotmeter or speedometer on that Prindle 18mph ya right.But as far as what is too much imo as long as you can get out off the beach go for it.Two yrs ago when i was out single about 2-3ft waves couldnt tell ya the windspeed it was nuts thats why i got that nice scar above my eyebrow from the boom smashing my melon but that hasnt kept me or will keep me from going out in hairy wind and waves but not by myself on the 18 know way.And why were you laying on the tramp instead of the wire you had awesome wind and you did'nt even fly a hull. -
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Posted: Jun 29, 2009 - 12:24 AM
How could he trap with an 18" hiking stick?
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Rob
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Posted: Jun 29, 2009 - 12:29 AM
My P18 actually went out in 30mph winds gusting (constantly and consistently) to 62. All of the older lines snapped, the clew ripped out of the jib, but everyone, and the boat, lived to tell the tale. The Prindles are very tough boats.
I had my hiking stick fully extended in 3 foot swells and one of them grabbed it and snapped it back as well. Mine is fiberglass, though, and while it got creased and broken it is actually still quite functional.
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Posted: Jun 29, 2009 - 01:11 AM
He could prior to bending it in half snapping it -
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Posted: Jun 29, 2009 - 02:28 AM
i sail my 17foot nacra 5.2 solo 99% of the time, being a 2 man boat i can't right it when it goes over (i still haven't finished my righting pole)
my general rule of thumb is if the jib is difficult to raise because it's whipping around so much and the waves are white capping then it's either time to sail without the jib or it's too windy to sail at all
when sailing without jib in strong winds i make sure my tacks are fast and blow the traveller instead of the sheet so the hulls have a better chance of getting across the difficult head to wind area without weather-vaning
that choice depends a lot on whether it looks like the wind will build or drop
our lake is pretty small so i don't have to worry about being blown out to sea and no matter what our winds are like in the afternoon they seem to drop to near nothing in the evening, so if need be i can hide in 1 of the many coves until it calms down
edited by: erice, Jun 29, 2009 - 01:30 AM -
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Posted: Jun 29, 2009 - 07:32 AM
I have a 5.7 g cat, my windiest day has been 20 gusting to 23-25. Sailing solo it is a lot to keep track of. It seemed much faster than it was. I could have sworn that I was in 30. But the weather stations said 20 to 25. It was not fun. I sailed back into mangroves to seek calmer water... and it was still a constant effort to stay upright.
edited by: Deepsees, Jun 29, 2009 - 12:39 PM -
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Posted: Jun 29, 2009 - 07:50 AM
I put the GPS on my Prindle 16 got it up to 19.2mph last weekend in 20-25 mph winds.
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Posted: Jun 29, 2009 - 09:15 AM
I was on a bay of lake Michigan and YES THE WIND WAS 20-25 AND GUSTS 30-40. There was no doubt about it.
I would think we had some protection from being in a bay, but it sure didn't feel like it!
I had friends who were not sailors. A girl was trapped out all day and was a real trooper. Even after dumping here several times from flying the hull up too fast and sending here over and into the leeward rigging or dropping the hull too fast and splashing her into the drink. She kinda got beat up a bit.
Even though there was tons of chaos, it was the most thrilling day of sailing I had ever had.
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Posted: Jun 29, 2009 - 09:38 AM
[quote]
Holy cow Yurdle, You are one gutsy guy. I agree the Prindle is one tough cat. I have a Hobie 14 too. I took that out for a half hour. It usually does really well, but the wind was too inconsistent to be trapped out. I can pull it over with my weight. Riding on the trampoline was the better bet, at least for a rookie like me. -
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Posted: Jun 29, 2009 - 10:06 AM
Gusting to 62?????
NO WAY can you control ANY sailboat in 62 mph... NO WAY! NO NO NO (maybe) ;)
Whats to windy? really anything over 20 mph and you risk breaking some gear. Either you can break a shroud, bolt, rudder casting, beam stress fractures, etc.
Most boats can handle 20 - 25 but anything more than that and the stress is enormous on your rigging. I saw 3 guys on a 6.0 (because it was blowing over 30) and they broke the mast in 1/2... to much weight on the boat ... it should have flipped, but their weight held it down.... $1200 for a new mast, $1200 for a new sail....
That being said... 15mph is perfect, 20 is a little wet, 25 is wild, and 30 i am trying to not flip, make it home.
I have been caught by squall lines that were around 40mph, and sailing (on a dart 18)in 35-45 squalls.... it was WILD -
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Posted: Jun 29, 2009 - 10:09 AM
Of course the P-16 is one tough cat. With 28 sq.ft. less sail area than H-16, it is liked reefed H-16 and the deeper bows keep it up. It's small enough that if you dump it it pops up quickly in heavy air. Sailed one from Holland to Mac Is. in '75, took 4 days, slept on tramp at Ludington, Platt River, & Charlevoix. Cooked our steaks on small camp stove on the tramp. -
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Posted: Jun 29, 2009 - 10:26 AM
My "ideal sailing wind huidelines":
00-02: swim
03-06: kayaks with sail rig
07-12: daysailor or "light" catamaran sailing
16-20: "fun" catamaran sailing
21-26: "wild" catamaran sailing
27-35: sailboard time! Honestly, Andrew is right. 25+ is not ideal for beach cats.
35+ Sit on the beach, drink beer and watch the kite surfers go crazy.
I think the most I have ever been in was 25-30 with gusts to 35 and it was NOT fun. It was total concentration to stay upright, not break the boat or get hurt and make it back to port safely. 15-25 is the "sweet spot". Beyond that teh 'funfactor' goes away and it just becomes exhausting.
edited by: Doug-p182-590, Jun 29, 2009 - 10:29 AM -
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Posted: Jun 29, 2009 - 10:32 AM
If you want a nice read. here is a short story of my 35-45 dart adventure written by the boats owner (my additions are below)
Monday, July 23, 2007
I shouldn't be alive.
"The ocean moans over dead men's bones." - Thomas B. Adrich
Saturday morning began like most, waking up at the beach house to prepare for another glorious day of sailing. Unlike most, I declined the company of several sailing partners in favor of just going out alone. I wanted one of those Zen-like moments where it's just you, the boat, and the wind.
I got a little more than I bargained for.
The weatherman was calling for 10 knots from the north, then clocking around south west in the late afternoon with a negligible chance of storms. I've come to conclude the weatherman doesn't know his dick from a hole in the ground.
So I tottled out the beach, rigged Dundee and set off for Three Rooker Bar which is about seven miles north of Dunedin Causeway, with my buddy Andy on his Hobie 18 in pursuit. The trip there was absolutely beautiful. Just enough wind to barely get the hull up on a close reach, and for about an hour, all the bullshit that supersedes daily living just slipped away. No thoughts of bills, failed relationships, work stress, IRS problems, or anything. All that shit evaporated the moment I jumped on the boat.
We arrived at Three Rooker and had a few cold ones while making lewd comments about average-looking chicks. You know, the typical shit that spews forth from two impetuous single guys who refuse to grow up. Then I noticed a rather large system developing about 10 miles to the west.
"Dude, we need to start working our way back to the Causeway."
"Holy shit, that sucker's big. Good idea."
And off we went. The sail back was absolutely beautiful because by the time we rounded Honeymoon Island, the wind had picked up to a solid 18-20 knots. (That's roughly 23mph for those of you not in the know). We both made it back under good time and beached by our vehicles under gray skies. At the same time, other boats started to return as well.
Within minutes, conditions worsened. And when I say "worsened," I mean "it got really fucking nasty really fucking fast." The clouds over Caladesi Island were a hue of pitch black previously unknown to mankind. The seas had developed from a light chop to solid rolling white caps. It was then that I knew what I had to do.
I had to sail in this shit.
"Andy, roll up your sail and put on your harness, we're going out." He obliged, and throwing caution and heedless warnings from other sailors, we headed out on Dundee.
It's almost impossible for me to paint an accurate picture, but you have to understand, the sea wasn't angry that day. It was fucking PISSED. Lightening everywhere. Solid 25-30 knot winds with gusts well exceeding that. Wisps of black cumulonimbus clouds threw giant fingers down at us, just waiting to develop into tornadoes or water spouts.
But I didn't give a shit. Andy was on the wire and I was driving the fucking snot out of the boat. The deck of the bow was only an inch from the waterline as a huge 15 foot rooster tail shot off the front of the boat. The wake coming off the leeward rudder was reminiscent of a Baja Outlaw under full throttle.
We were hauling fucking ass. In over 15 years of racing catamarans in all kinds of conditions, I've never been that fast under sail before.
So we tacked around and headed back for a show-off run up the beach, fueled on a heroin-like adrenaline rocketing threw my veins. I was Lieutenant fucking Dan, fist in the air, screaming "Is that the best you've got? Come get me motherfucker!!!"
God answered and the sky roared.
A gust of wind hit us like a fucking anvil and we immediately blew both sails. It got to the point where I simply couldn't control the boat anymore and all my senses went from Yippie Kay Aye to Holy Shit, I may not make it through this one.
Somehow I managed to beach the boat about a hundred yards from the trailer and it took Andy and I everything we had to get the sails down without the boat doing cartwheels down the beach.
After helping everyone else break down, I immediately went back to my truck, grabbed a beer and a smoke, and sat for a few minutes to collect myself. Until that moment, I never knew it was possible to be both simultaneously high on life, and completely scared shitless. Yet at the same time, there's something liberating about looking death reckoning in the eyes and saying "give me your best shot, asshole."
About 20 minutes later the winds and the lightening subsided a bit and I walked over to a truck where a group of friends/sailors were talking. As I approached, their eyes went white and grew three times larger, as if they were staring at an apparition.
Tyler Durden said it best. "Once you've lost everything, you're free to achieve anything."
Postscript: The boat is only mildly damaged and you bet your bippy I'm sailing next weekend.
MY ADDITIONS TO HIS POST:
Well this is almost accurate!
I recall when we first noticed the storm blowing in, and you said, "if we were smart.... we would head back now!" and I then replied... I agree.... lets have another drink or 3!!!
You also forgot to mention my beautiful Jib (RIP) that didn?t make it through the storm... and the screaming and chaos on the beach trying to secure everyone?s boats and trying to drop masts.
We didn?t land 100 yards from your truck... we landed 1000 yards from your truck
And lastly.... don?t forget that after the storm passed we both walked toward your boat to survey the damage and recover your vessel and God once again showed up he was the boss by shooting a the most gynormous lightning bolt that went from the North Pole to The South Pole... Without saying a word we both did an about face in perfect synchronization that would have earned a 10.0 in the Olympics?
THAT WAS LIVING? even though I lost my Jib Sail (and a perfectly good pair of underware?.) I was amazed at our speed?. And would do it again?. As Jimmi Hendrix said, ?If its my time, I aint afraid of dying!? ? and nothing happened to him??.. ummmmmm
Posted by andrew on Tuesday, October 02, 2007 - 9:47 AM
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Posted: Jun 29, 2009 - 11:58 AM
Yes I also love 10-15 solo or with light crew and 15-20 with crew, especially if the waves keep under control. Saturday was great, I could have used just a little more wind but no complaints. Sunday was a bit much but we had to give it a shot (famous last words). Forecast was 15-25 which would have been a lot more fun then the actual 25+ with gusts. I didn't see carnage on our beach other then a kite boarders sail. I also left before everyone was back in though.
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Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
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Posted: Jun 29, 2009 - 12:15 PM
I missed it due to other family obligations but the Utah Summer games this year got hit with some major wind causing havoc with a lot of boats on the water. Here is an excerpt description
and a video of the conditions
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZORVKNGees
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Dustin Finlinson • Magna, UT
Member: Utah Sailing Association
1982 Prindle 18
1986 Hobie 17
1982 Prindle 16
1980 Prindle 16(mostly)
1976 Prindle 16(mostly)
Check out "Prindle Sailors" on Facebook.
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Posted: Jun 29, 2009 - 02:59 PM
yes... that doesn't look very fun at all!
You would stand a better chance flying a broom vs. a hull in that wind! -
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Posted: Jun 29, 2009 - 03:24 PM
By defination this is to much wind...
After sailing every day for about 6 months, I was getting a little stuck up and didnt want to go out unless the gulf had at least white caps. I had transended hull flying and was fasinated with getting both hulls airborne so the waves had to be just right.
I was sitting on sand key about a 1/2 mile from the channel to the bay when the wind came up and the seas started pounding the beach with waves that easily reached 4-5 feet (which in the gulf does not happen often)
I was 17 and immortal so I strapped 2 life jackets to the boat(H14turbo) and off I went. Getting through the surf was a little tough, almost got washed off twice before I left the beach but as soon as I was past the second sand bar things went wild. THe sky turned from black to green and a coulple of water spouts formed a little farther out so of course, I headed for the mouth of the channel as I knew the waves I wanted would be found there.
I was maintaining position waiting for a good set and when I saw what I was looking for, I started my run for the tip of the jetty. I have no ideas of the speeds I was hitting but from the rooster tails off the rudders, I knew it was a "record book" kind of day. I was about 50 yards off the jetty when everything just stopped. I mean not a breath, the sails were completely depowered. I coasted to a stop and was maybe 20 yards of the rocks when the wind came back. In less then a second, the jib was blown to shreads and the main wrapped around the mast making a giant funnel then things really turned bad! the boat lurched and then went strait down. I have never known a whole to open in the ocean before but suddenly I was well over 10 ft below the surface and still on the tramp then the walls closed in and everything went dark. I remember being sucked off the boat and wrapping my arm around the rear pylon. Where the life jackets went I'll never know but I did not see either of them again and am not sure they ever came back up.
When the boat broke the surface, it was still upright but the main was still wrapped around the mast which caused the boat to immediatly and violently flip.
With the mast folded over above the shrouds and the jib gone, I was able to right it and jury rig what was left of the main sail fortunately it was down wind to the beach.
Even with a jury rig the size of a large beach towel, I was hittting crazy speeds down wind for the 100 yards or so to dry land
To this day I still do not understand what caused such bizzare events and the total distruction of my boat even the hulls were trash on the next day when I went out to take a look, the pylon I had grabbed onto had ripped out of the hull and stress cracks allowed more then an inch of wiggle. the other hull had a crease in it running between the pylons where I am guessing the hull was crushed.
I don't remember the date but it was the summer of 87 and to top it off, the 2 water spouts later blew out over land and it rained fish among other things down on sand key. It even made the evening news but somehow I missed making the obituary's I guess it just was not my time
