Well, I?m still dry but almost there. Made a lot of good progress cleaning and fixing up this boat (no pictures yet but I?ll try to get some this weekend) but there are still a few things I'm hoping you guys can help me with.
1. Went through a dry run stepping and rigging and raising sails. The most important thing I discovered is that the mast on the N 5.2 is a lot heavier than the one on the H16. Managed to bend the dolphin striker rod bringing it back down. I?ve read a good bit on this site about stepping, but if anyone has tips specific to my boat I?d appreciate your input.
2. There appears to be a cleat on the forestay adjuster. I?m guessing this is for a downhaul but there is no line on my jib for that purpose. Is the cleat for something else?
3. On the mast hound there is a hole above the one that serves the attachment of shrouds and stays. The guy who owned the boat before me apparently used this hole for connecting the trap wires with a carabiner. Does that seem like the proper arrangement?
4. It?s painfully annoying to use split rings for completing connection of the mast hinge pin and forestay pin and gooseneck pin. Do you guys just use quick releases for all of these things or substitute spring clips for the rings? I can see using a quick release for something like the hiking stick but my first thought is to worry about them popping out of an important connection like the forestay. I suppose what I'm really asking is are the quick release pins safe and reliable?
5. At the base of my mast there are just two clam cleats. I know there should be a downhaul for the main and my jib halyard has a block for (I assume) tensioning the sail. My question is ? what happens to the main and jib halyard tails? Is the proper procedure to raise the sails, then use downhauls and other adjustments for tension while the halyard tails are free and stowed? (I have to admit, it kind of goes against the grain not to have halyards securely cleated off.)
6. There?s a pad eye about four or five feet up on the front of the mast. Does anyone know what that?s for?
I know this is like asking someone to write a manual, I don?t really expect anyone to have answers to everything, but any input is greatly appreciated. Anything I can?t figure out here I?ll bug the Nacra guys about.
Thanks in advance.
The annoying questions begin - (Nacra 5.2)
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Posted: Jul 06, 2009 - 01:33 PM
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Posted: Jul 06, 2009 - 02:17 PM
I'll take the first crack. Here are some quick answers. You might want to post some pics. Plus you local dealer and the factory tech folks should be able to help you.
1.Went through a dry run stepping and rigging and raising sails. The most important thing I discovered is that the mast on the N 5.2 is a lot heavier than the one on the H16. Managed to bend the dolphin striker rod bringing it back down. I?ve read a good bit on this site about stepping, but if anyone has tips specific to my boat I?d appreciate your input.
A: Heavy as heck and not for the faint hearted. My 5.8 mast needs to be turned sideways when lowering or stepping. Also you need a stool or sawhorse to support the mast when on the ball and down. You will need to replace the rod. I bent mine and replaced it. $75-100.
2. There appears to be a cleat on the forestay adjuster. I?m guessing this is for a downhaul but there is no line on my jib for that purpose. Is the cleat for something else?
A: Might have had a furling assembly at one time & that is where the halyard was cleated. My halyard cleats to the mast.
3. On the mast hound there is a hole above the one that serves the attachment of shrouds and stays. The guy who owned the boat before me apparently used this hole for connecting the trap wires with a carabiner. Does that seem like the proper arrangement?
A: Right positon wrong hardware. See parts manual.
4. It?s painfully annoying to use split rings for completing connection of the mast hinge pin and forestay pin and gooseneck pin. Do you guys just use quick releases for all of these things or substitute spring clips for the rings? I can see using a quick release for something like the hiking stick but my first thought is to worry about them popping out of an important connection like the forestay. I suppose what I'm really asking is are the quick release pins safe and reliable?
A: I dont trust QR Pins. Rings Rings Rings and waterproof electrical tape.
5. At the base of my mast there are just two clam cleats. I know there should be a downhaul for the main and my jib halyard has a block for (I assume) tensioning the sail. My question is ? what happens to the main and jib halyard tails? Is the proper procedure to raise the sails, then use downhauls and other adjustments for tension while the halyard tails are free and stowed? (I have to admit, it kind of goes against the grain not to have halyards securely cleated off.)
A: Tails: I tuck them away in my tramp pocket.. Main adjusted via downhaul. Jib via halyard and adjuster. The cleats you refer to work fine. You might want to send us pics. Seems that downhaul parts are missing. Are there pullies or cam blocks on your mast base? Sail hardware?
6. There?s a pad eye about four or five feet up on the front of the mast. Does anyone know what that?s for? A: Send us pics.
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Posted: Jul 06, 2009 - 04:56 PM
4. It?s painfully annoying to use split rings for completing connection of the mast hinge pin and forestay pin and gooseneck pin. Do you guys just use quick releases for all of these things or substitute spring clips for the rings? I can see using a quick release for something like the hiking stick but my first thought is to worry about them popping out of an important connection like the forestay. I suppose what I'm really asking is are the quick release pins safe and reliable?
A: I use qr pins most places I can except the forestay. When I bought the boat it had a QR there, too, but I was told too many horror stories of 'helpers' yanking the QR pin in the forestay trying to take down the jib. I use a normal clevis pin there now.
5. At the base of my mast there are just two clam cleats. I know there should be a downhaul for the main and my jib halyard has a block for (I assume) tensioning the sail. My question is ? what happens to the main and jib halyard tails? Is the proper procedure to raise the sails, then use downhauls and other adjustments for tension while the halyard tails are free and stowed? (I have to admit, it kind of goes against the grain not to have halyards securely cleated off.)
A: I have both of the tails set up to be easily removed..anything quick works here (sister clips, shackle, etc)
6. There?s a pad eye about four or five feet up on the front of the mast. Does anyone know what that?s for?
A: After removing the tail on the main halyard I hook it to this eye on the mast. If for some reason the halyard comes unhooked at the top the sail should stay up by hanging onto the eyelet.
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Rob
OKC
Pile of Nacra parts..
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Posted: Jul 06, 2009 - 05:35 PM
One thing to remember about quick pins "THEY ARE HOLLOW", they will fail under enough stress and age. Clevis pins are solid. -
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Posted: Jul 06, 2009 - 06:09 PM
Hey,
I just purchased a 5.2 also several months ago (I also come from a H16 background) and went through many of the same things. I may be able to help a bit too.
A.1. Step the mast on a flat surface. I know that they say to be on an incline with the bows facing up, but the mast seems way heavier when you step that way. If you are walking onto the tramp rig a sturdy step up so it is a little easier, or have someone hold it up while you get on the tramp. You have to turn the mast 90 degrees when you step/unstep it or it bends the dolphin striker bar. I did the same thing, pounded it back a bit and have been sailing with the a bent rod. It is definitely better to replace but I don't think it will break that close to the end provided the ball is still on properly and isn't completely munched. I've been sailing with the bent one without issues while my new one gets here.
2.A. Yes that is for the jib downhaul. I think it may have been an option on the 5.2 but was standard on some of the other boats they made at that time (along with the main downhaul). They probably used the same forestay adjuster on all of them. You can look at it in the old assembly manual on Performance Catamaran's site and cobble it together from parts if you think you need it.
3. A. Yep that's for the trap lines. Should be connected with a large bow shackle though, don't use carabiners on anything on the boat that will be under stress (even the stainless ones), that means basically everything connected to the mast.
4.A. I use QR harware for the boom to sail , boom to gooseneck, mainsheet block to boom, mainsheet block to traveler car, hiking stick, jib tack, halyards and jib to forestay, and on the connections for my jib blocks. I don't think anyone trusts them on the shrouds or the forestay connections to the boat.
5. Yep that's for the Main downhaul. You may not have a block for them though (again some 5.2s have it and some don't). In that case you attach 1/4 rope to the eyelet on the left side of the mast up inside the mast rotator arms through the eyelet on thetack of the sail and then down through the cleat. This give you at least a 2:1 purchase.
The main halyard line is meant to be untied and stowed in the tramp pocket. The jib halyard is supposed to be cleated off, but there isn't a neat place to put the extra line (that I have found). Or you can rig a cleat for that on the mast also.
6. A. That is for the jib preventer. It is just a 6' piece of shock cord that you tie to the outboard ends of the dolphin striker and run through the eye on the mast. It prevents the jib from getting caught under the mast casting when you tack.
Hope this helps, I don't know everything about the boat yet, but I think I asked myself all those questions at least twice.
Regards,
Dave
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Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: Jul 06, 2009 - 10:10 PM
Thanks guys. I really appreciate the time everyone took to share their experiences. It's especially valuable in that many of you have Nacras.
Yeah, I really blew the mast lowering thing. I remembered turning it ninety degrees when raising, but was so concerned about how it would work to lower it with the winch that I just forgot about turning on the way down. I'll go pick up another rod from Nacra sometime this week (gonna opt for the conservative route there). If anyone has tips on replacing that rod I'd be interested.
One of the things that concerned me upon thinking about the heavy mast was the idea of righting when solo. I was able to right the H16 I had pretty much with just a righting line, but I think this beast is going to require some extra muscle, or gear. Anybody know anything about this system - http://www.catsailor.com/power_righter.html
Thanks to everyone for the downhauls and halyards advice. I think I've got that stuff sorted out. I will add that I talked to someone at the manufacturer who said they did set up some of the 5.2s to run the jib halyard back down the forestay (inside the luff) and cleated off at the adjuster. He said that because the mast bent when trapped this avoided de-tensioning the jib luff.
Seems like the qr pins issue might be a debate worthy of the Hobie v. anything else battle. I'm currently planning to stay conservative on the standing rigging and go with convenience elsewhere. I would still welcome further information on how others make use of these (or other) devices, Nacra or not.
I do have one more question. If I remember correctly, the H16 got forward tension on the mast from the jib luff, not really the forestay. Is it the same for the N5.2? I guess what I'm really asking is how tight should the rigging be?
Thanks again for all the help.
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Posted: Jul 06, 2009 - 11:17 PM
Hey Dave,
First, thanks for your help. Sounds like our experiences have been very similar so far.
Along those lines, I was wondering if you know how the jibsheet blocks are controlled. Without some sort of traveler control it seems pretty clear that when under load they'll just tug forward until they jam against the tramp. I know there must be some sort of line control (I think I've seen it in photos) but cannot find anything in the manual or online. Have you dealt with this yet?
Or if anyone else knows, feel free to chime in. -
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Posted: Jul 06, 2009 - 11:50 PM
you run a line to the rear beam to limit the forward pull, tie it off at the saddle and experiment with differnt positions until you find the best
someone said 31inches forward was best for their 5.2
when i got my 5.2 i searched for and save any pics i could of 5.2's and nacras off the net
has answered lots of Q
check the albums on this site for airborne's pics -
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Posted: Jul 06, 2009 - 11:53 PM
tighten the rigging until the mast stops rotating smoothly then, back it off a hole on the forestay
1 of the many racing features of the 5.2 is jib luff tension adjustment at the mast base, i don't bother using it solo -
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Posted: Jul 07, 2009 - 01:07 AM
erice - Very clear and concise in both cases. Thank you.
Just a couple of questions: What is the saddle? (My first thought was to tie off at the strap eye that the wire connects to.) Also, I infer from your description that this is not an adjustable (on the fly) setup, is this correct?
I actually do have airborne's pictures bookmarked. Went to check them after I posted and realized that's where I saw the lines, but still didn't know the setup.
Anyway, thanks again. -
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Posted: Jul 07, 2009 - 01:43 AM
RLC,
Check out the pics here:
This guys has his setup dialed in really nicely and it is pretty much stock for a pre 1986 5.2. The way he has the rudders setup is really nice too, I saw it an immediately converted to that.
This link Shows the jib block line disappearring under the tramp, he has a hole in the tramp where the line leads back to the rear beam.
This next link of a 5.2 redo also shows jib block wires going under the tramp, it also shows the barber hauler system which pulls the jib lines outboard on either side. You may or may not have these
The main site is also a really good source of pictures to see how you can setup your boat:
I will try and takes some pics of mine when I am back out at the cottage two weeks from now.
Regards,
Dave
--
Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: Jul 07, 2009 - 01:46 AM
Oh and one other thing, you probably realized the jib works completely differently than a H16. The main reason being that the luff of the 5.2jib overlaps the main sail. i.e. you can pull the jib clew back behind the front beam. This is also the reason you need a jib preventer.
D.
--
Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: Jul 07, 2009 - 08:01 AM
the strap eye on the front of the mast is where i have a short length of bungee with a clip on the end. once the sail is raised and halyard ball hooked on the heavy wire section will flap around unless held somehow. so i clip it to the bungee going to the strap eye. this keeps it under tension. the line section of the halyard i loop and tuck into a $1 shop mesh bag i sewed onto the tramp. the jib halyard gets tucked into the mid-tramp tube sleeve
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Posted: Jul 07, 2009 - 08:30 AM
i don't have any pics of my 5.2 up on the web but if you stop these videos at various points you can see just about everything there is to see on it
http://www.vimeo.com/5075989
0.55 for the jib block position lines, but sailing uni
1:05 for the halyard bungee
have since replaced the dodgy jib blocks (with nylon cam-cleats that wore and slipped the sheet), for the correct harken ones with alloy cam-cleats, (from the parts classifieds here)
http://www.vimeo.com/5258062
jib sheet jam prevention bungee 0:27
mast rotator, downhaul, jib halyard stowage in tramp tube sleeve 0:44
that last power boat was on a collision course with us until i turned to cut across his wake, where he looked up from texting on his phone and gave me a dirty look for surprising him like that
edited by: erice, Jul 07, 2009 - 07:32 AM -
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Posted: Jul 07, 2009 - 11:28 AM
"...that last power boat was on a collision course with us until i turned to cut across his wake, where he looked up from texting on his phone and gave me a dirty look for surprising him like that."
Well, who the hell do you think you are, bothering him that way?
Very cool video. Thanks.
Nice to know the boat sails well as a uni. Figured I'd do that when solo 'til I got wired on the boat. Do you have any idea what the wind speed was when you were out on that lake? Do you have any trouble tacking, or tips on how to get the bows through without a jib to backwind? -
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Posted: Jul 07, 2009 - 05:58 PM
Great Video's: Questions: Where/What lake is that? Where did you get those decals? What is the trick for tacking that cat without a jib.
I've got to get me one of those new waterproof digi's. Great videos. How did the fishermen feel about getting buzzed? -
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Posted: Jul 07, 2009 - 09:41 PM
"Nice to know the boat sails well as a uni. Figured I'd do that when solo 'til I got wired on the boat. Do you have any idea what the wind speed was when you were out on that lake?"
not too sure, about 10mph?, wouldn't have usually gone without the jib in 10mph but 1 of the jib blocks cam-cleats was slipping and soloing without jib cleats isn't really possible
"Do you have any trouble tacking, or tips on how to get the bows through without a jib to backwind?"
in light to medium winds a 5.2 will generally coast through a tack well without a jib if you have enough speed when starting the tack
so when taking out friends or kids i usually leave the jib off and remove the tramp mounted jib blocks and sheet. still have to prepared to back the boat onto the new tack occasionally
(uncleat the traveller and push the boom and rudders in the direction you want to sail and hold them there while the wind, working on the BACK of the sail, pushes the boat back and around so you are facing the way you want to go. once the hulls are around onto the new tack, let go of the boom, center the rudders and SLOWLY pull in the traveller so the wind switches sides of the sail and the boat starts moving forward again and the rudders start to bite)
however, once the wind picks up it will punish any sloppy tacks by weather vanning the nacra's large and high hulls dead into wind
so when it's blowing strong enough that the waves are white capping i will remove the jib to make the boat more controllable AND try to hit all tacks with more speed and RELEASE the traveller and ot the main sheet when going into tacks
with the traveller released going into the tack all the boat speed can go into getting the hulls across the wind while the mast/sail just pivots on it's step. once the hulls are well across the wind SLOWLY pull the traveller back to center while building up forward speed again
this method does seem to kill boat speed coming out of the tack but when it's white capping i'm more concerned about keeping the boat upright and undamaged than ultimate boat speed
the lake is surrounded by volcanoes in almost the geographic center of japan, the high sides make the winds very fluky and gusty so it's quite challenge when the winds are blowing. most of the time however the winds are very light so the tall mast big sail area is perfect for pushing around just 1 person
the graphics on the boat were painted on with ordinary household enamel over our long winters
the "cool cat" name is the "chiller" font found in ms office. each letter was printed at A4 size, then enlarged to A3 size on a big copier, then cut in half and enlarged again to A3. giving about 50cm tall by 25cm wide letters that were cut out, taped to the hull and drawn on with pencil, then hand painted
similar for the nacra 5.2 on the hulls and mast with the lettering shape coming from a photo of the old cracking decal before it was pulled off
ideally the sail image would have been projected on to the sail with an lcd projector from an image on a computer while it hung over a garage rafter? the projected image traced around and then painted on
BUT, with no projector it was done old school, breaking the tiger's head into 1cm squares and transferring them onto a 10x12cm grid on the sail
painstaking work but a fun way to channel michaelangelo doing the sistine chapel:o)
edited by: erice, Jul 07, 2009 - 08:42 PM -
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Posted: Jul 08, 2009 - 12:57 PM
RLC, please take pictures (before during after) while doing the repair/replacement, I have pictures of the Hobie 16 mast step replacement in the technical photo album but nothing for NACRA, you will help out the next 5.2 guy with the same problem.
Thanks,
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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN
How To Create Your Signature
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How To Display Pictures In The Forums.
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Posted: Jul 08, 2009 - 02:13 PM
Hello 5.2 lovers!
If you guys need any pics or any help with your 5.2 just let me know. I have a 5.2 and wouldnt mind taking whatever pics you need. I have modernized my 5.2 a little and can help out if needed. I will be setting her up this weekend and will be more than happy to take plenty of pics. I have a 84 5.2 with new style mast, Smyth rags, equipped with a I17R spin. If you guys need specific pics post up what you need and i will take the pics this weekend when its set up. If you need pics or descriptions of other parts of the boat that doesnt require the mast being up i can snap them tonight after work. Glad to see there's still interest in the old 5.2. I love mine and will continue to sail it as long as possible. -
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Posted: Jul 08, 2009 - 03:29 PM
Damon - be happy to, as long as I remember (mind like a steel sieve).
Turbocat - since I'm new to the 5.2 I'm always interested in hearing about others' experiences. Some of the questions raised in this thread might benefit from your reactions. Also, I'm interested in changes from stock that owners have made that allow their boats to be faster, or safer, or lighter, or easier, or faster.
As an example, I'd like to know how many have barberhauler setups and whether they find these to be useful or not.
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